Krell Master Reference Amplifier


Any opinions on these amps?

I am in search of the best solid state amp in the world -- is the Krell Master Reference Amp it? Or would it be overrated?

Advice would be greatly appreciated?
cchp
Hifimaniac, I withdraw, without equivacation, the "harsh" characterization.

We started with Krell back in the mid-eighties with the KMA series products. Krell has ALWAYS been of the highest build quality, no question. Their signature sound is by no means offensive. It is hard to quanitatively describe, I will try with describing feelings as best I can. We often came away from extended listening times (ninty minutes or more) with a tired feeling, a slight bit of fatigue. I am not talking about headaches or noticeable pain, but an "I missed something" quality. Back then we had IMF Studio Monitors and Beveridge Electrostatics, and before much attention was paid to cabling or power and home theater didn't really exist, unless cobbled together.

Over time we've had a fair amount of other Krell product through, most extensively of late, we spent quite a bit of time with the 650Mc monoblocks about 2 years ago. We had them hooked up to Pipedreams, JM Lab Utopias, Huff Omni, Wilson Grand Slams. When mated with the Wilson's was the worst combination resulting in very etched music especially when using very revealing cable like Nordost Valhalla. The one client who kept the Krells and Grand Slams used a darker cable, Transparent Reference XL, to tame the etchiness and I think it worked pretty well. As a group we wholly discourage the use of cable as tuning devices. But in this case the client insisted on the Krells and Grand Slams. The second client with this package had the Utopias. This fellow did everything but stand on his head to make the system right; i.e. different cabling, different racks and stands, different front ends but couldn't make it work for him and we remarketed the Krells for him and recovered his investment. Notable items he tried - Transparent Reference cabling, Purist Audio Dominus cabling, Nordost Valhalla cabling, star configurations of Richard Grays power conditioners, Ensemble power cords and conditioners, Shunyata King Cobra V2 and Hydra power conditioners, and many other non-system wide changes. BTW, when I mention a cable or power cord I mean the entire system was redone in that model mentioned not just one pair.
He also insisted on listening to music at HIGH volume levels. And I mean HIGH, within 7 weeks he had totally blown out FOUR pair of tweeters in the Utopias. The repair expenses were racking up quickly, getting those tweeters from France. To make a long story short the problem ended up being an oscillation problem with the amps. I freely admit we are over my head if we need to dissect the oscillation issue, I can't be of much help. Regardless, replaced the amps with a pair of SA-250 and not one peep out of the guy!!! Have no reported problems or shortfalls from him in the last two years.

From a perspective of many Krell products touched and two fairly recent installations, one positive resolution with cabling and one negative resolved by changing out the amps. Krell is not on our most recommended list. For similar dollars we find equal or better sound without some of the quirks. Yet, I would also observe Krell remains one of the most requested brands we see from clients.

For CCHP, I strongly urge you to keep the Krell for the subs! I believe we all agree subwoofers and/or base does not experience the subtle tonal differences in midrange and highs. Krells are powerhouses and that's just what those subs need. By sharing with us this is a pipedreams systems my conviction grows quite a bit stronger to at least audition the Plinius, if you don't you'll always have that nagging bothersome doubt that drives a lot of us nuts. If you have an established relationship with a dealer to loan you some Plinius I encourage you to avail yourself to the opportunity. If not, I would make some arrangements to trial something from our end; do the best I can to "put my money where my mouth is".

Without knowing your personal preferences I would have you consider a system that looks like this:
Krell - hooked to Pipe subs with some moderately priced lightning fast cable like the Nordost Red Dawn.
Plinius - connected to the towers with Nordost Valhalla or Siltech Generation 5 products.
For the purpose of this article I am forced to assume clean and sufficient power. (Yeah, I know it's a big assumption) but were trying to offer hope here.
Front end is a crap shoot these days with format wars and uncertain connections - hope to keep whatever you have and stay with upgradeable gear with companies known for support. i.e. Theta Digital, Goldmund, dCS.

Remember we are doing Nearfield listening so one can make this setup work in many, many spaces. If the room is still a problem we would add either Z-Systems RDP-1 or Tact RCS devices to finalize room compensation. Beyond that, racks, isolation items, etc. can be fine tuned at your leisure.

Apologies for the long winded post, but I insist on not being part of the Bash Krell crowd, as that's not the case.
Response to SDR Consultant:

Thanks for your comments.

Interesting...I also play my music quite quite loud at times and have blown the Genesis II midranges twice and the B&W801 15 inch woofer also twice -- with the Krell FPB 600. Maybe it is the oscillation problem that you are referring to.

I have listened to Krells in the past and agree that the sound is fatiguing, certainly not "harsh" but can be non-emotional. However, I thought that the current Krell amps are quite musical and dare I say it "sweet" in the midrange. Superb details, great soundstaging, and very balanced from highs to lows. I have never found it to be fatiguing and have not heard a better amp except for the Rowlands (obviously I have not hear a large number of amps so my comparison is limited to Levinson, Classe, Halcro, and Pass). I love the enthralling sound of tubes (especially with female jazz vocals), especially the VACs and the Jadis, but am realistic that given how loud I play selected portions of my music, tubes would not be the answer.

I am currently using the Linn CD12 as my front end and the Levinson 32. I am extremely happy with the CD12 but feel that the Levinson 32 is to dry (may change once I decide on an amp). I suspect that my cabling would need updating as I am using Goertz silver cables.

The other amp out there that was recommended was the Gamut? Any opinions?

I will try to get a hold of the Plinius to see how it would sound with my system. Paul, have you heard the new Rowlands?

Cchp
Hi Cchp

I would be quite surprised if some of the mega watt tube amps from ARC, VTL, Manley, Joule, Wolcott, CAT, Jadis (JA-800), Tenor hybrids wouldn't supply you with all the power you need especially if bass duty is being provided by the Krell. Either you have an EXTREMELY large room or you listen at deafening levels if some of the above tube amps wouldn't work. Tubes in general have an immediacy and in general an upfront presentation that contrasts with the generally laid back presentation of SS that makes tubes appear to be louder watt for watt IMHO.

Nice posts SDR Consultant. Very detailed and informative input.
I'd bet the house the blowouts are that oscillation issue with the Krells.

Have not spent really any extended time with the newest Krell version, so I could not give any feedback at all.

Regarding the levinson 32 - Preamps have my nemesis for a long time. I think it is the trickiest piece of a 2 channel system to get right. In the last couple of years we have really focused on eliminating the piece completely and using volume controls in the digital side - on dacs or on pieces like the tact or rdp-1. (Typically my behavior - when I can't solve a problem to my liking I go around it.)

Gamut = very solid amp, and given the Pipes are notoriously efficient it may work, but I suspect it is going to end up too small for your application.

Fascinating you ask about Rowland. It's a brand we are not a dealer for, so I arranged to "borrow" some for a trial 6-7 months ago. A client was struggling with the choice between Plinius and Rowland. It was the most recent version of the 9ti but I only had one 250 he could take. He returned the 9ti s about a week later. He indicated it was the toughest call he'd ever made in his audio quest. He mentioned some days he liked one better than the next day he liked the other better. Ultimately what tipped the scales I think was money but he never admitted it. Not that he couldn't afford it but in his eyes, it was a dead heat and one couldn't justify the triple+ price of the Rowlands. It reminds me he never did want the second 250. He shifted the savings over to the front and selected the dCS Elgar+ and Purcell combo. (the Verdi wasn't out yet) can't remember his transport though.