Kharma CRM 3.2F vs. Avalon Eidolon and Diamond

As a dealer for Kharma, I will not tell you my thoughts on the Eidolons. What I will share are the experiences of a customer who had the Eidolon's without the diamond tweeter and the Kharma 3.2 CRM's. He was never happy with the Eidolons. He felt the crossover points were very noticable and there was an extremely noticable bloat problem. He also noted that the midrange sounded thin, dry and lean in comparison to his 3.2's. He felt the 3.2s had a bigger soundstage side to side as well as front to back and even though the 3.2's are only a two way, they had superior bass to that of the Eidolons.

The diamond tweeter is quite a wonderful upgrade, but it cannot solve the problems he heard.

Personally, I do not think comparing the Eidolon Diamonds to the 3.2s is fair to the Eidolons. The 3.2s are in a class by themselves.

Now that Focal is touting the newer berylium dome tweeters, does anyone think that Kharma will re-engineer their speakers for the newer generation of tweeters? Also I heard that Focal will soon stop selling raw drivers and concentrate solely on JM labs. BTW, as a Diamond owner (anfd former Eidolon owner)- let me say that the Diamond is a completely new product- very different than the Eidolon. Different tweeter, woofer, internal wiring, bracing, crossover. Don't assume that the Diamond is simply an Eidolon with a diamond tweeter upgrade. Read the review of the Eidolon in the Feb. issue of HFNRR (Martin Colloms). The Diamond is the finest real world speaker I have heard.

Frank, I am in audio envy! I did order the Meitner and really looking forward to getting that in and comparing to the AA Capitole II. I have been concentrating on a turntable as that is what I have been told to buy from my wife. I guess I can live with those kind of demands. Finding out that the choice is as difficult as the other gear. After researching and hearing a couple more I am getting the options narrowed down. So for now I am just imagining that the speakers and amps are here for now.

Bob, I will just tell you MY opinion on the AA versus the Metiner versus analog (so, to everyone else, please realize this is JUST my opinion based on my tastes, my prefernces, my room acoustics and my equipment synergy).

First, the AA is a wonderful sounding player and bettered my former $14,000 separates fairly handily. However, it was the MOST unreliable, frustrating, not ready for market, piece of gear I have EVER experienced. I finally got a new one a couple months ago and it seems fine. When it broke down for the bazillionth time (before I got the new one), I said to myself "Self, it may sound great but I cannot stand the hassles, so let's try something else!" (I actually said that out loud to myself!! -- problem is I ANSWERED MYSELF!!!) OK, I'm back now.

This is where Jonathan The Pusher Man Tinn comes in. JTinn Pusher Man took the chance to inject me with his Audio Herione in the form of the Meitner DAC 6, Phillips SACD-1000 (Meitnerized) and the Switchman II. Let me state that I am NOT affiliated with Chambers Audio or Meitner or EMM Labs. I also am not a member of any "Gear of the Month Club" and do not feel a need to "justify" my purchases and do not care if a component I have gets a bad review (as noted by my opinion of the Kharma Midi-Grands versus Mr. Fremer's -- whom I admire and respect). After all, it is only our opinion and I am virtually the only one who listens to my system.

With that disclaimer behind us, I will simply say that the Phillips, DAC 6 and Switchman combo took my system to a level I HONESTLY never thought I would ever hear in my home. Combined with the Midi-Grands, Tenor amps and various assorted accessories, the Meitner gear handily bettered, and in many cases trounced, every other digital gear I have ever heard (including my SFI T3/P3, the AA, the same new DCS stuff Stereophile just raved about, the best Accuphase, the Levinson and Wadia's [all of which I have heard in my system). That is not what surprised me or my buddies. What DID surprise us, however, is that it also trounced almost every vinyl playback we heard it compared to (and that includes, to a lesser degree, my SME 30, Manley Steelhead and Colbri). Yes, there are instances where my SME betters the Meitner stuff. But, on the average, I have found more CDs to sound more listenable through the Meitner than the same album on the SME (judged by CDs which I also have on LP). No, I am not saying analog is dead or not a fantastic medium - because it is. BUT, if anyone wants so stop by my home (please call first) and hear for yourself, what I am raving about, please do so. Four of my closest local audio sickos have come by and left shaking their heads after hearing what the Meitner does for digital. One of them who is a DIE HARD vinyl afficianado left again tonight saying "vinyl just isn't worth it after hearing that!"

Does this mean everyone should run out and sell their analog rigs? No, that is preposterous. However, I am at least considering it. But, if you are unable to do both to the level you want, I would not hesitate to advise anyone to go with the Meitner gear and forego the expense and hassle of analog, particularly if you like the newer stuff that cannot be had on vinyl!!

I still love vinyl, but with the Meitner gear, I no longer get tired of digital after an hour or so, I no longer feel the need to fire up an LP and I have NEVER heard such transparency, illumination of the musical event, layering, soundstaging, timbral accuracy, articulate and harmonically pure bass with violins, cymbals and pianos sound so lifelike (and with NO steeliness or stridency) as I have since the Meitner showed up (of course, the Midi's and Tenors have alot to do with those attributes as well).

If you do get the Meitner gear, GIVE IT TIME TO FULLY break in!!! It doesn't sound great out of the box, it gets better after 150 hours or so, gets a little wierd at about 250 and then KICKS SERIOUS AUDIO DERRIERE after 350-500!

In closing, if anyone disagrees with me, that is fine as that is your taste or preference -- but if you disagree without ever hearing what the Meitner can do, it will be your loss.

The problems that Jtinn's customer reports with the Eidolons do not make it so. With a list of problems so plainly at odds with the characteristics of my system, I would assume that his customer's room setup, a/c handling, vibration control, and/or system matching are at fault.
As to bass, I have just been listening to Eidolons (with Spectral monoblocks and Spectral dmc30-sl) through a number of power cords and marvelling at the deep, tight natural bass available ; we are now to believe that this is beaten out by a 2-way? Eidolons will not provide the floor-shaking bass of a large floorstander, but, sorry, I'm not prepared to believe that a 2-way will either.
As far as thinness, Eidolons tend to a transparent, holographic soundstage. If your preference is for a lush full sound, either mate the Eidolons with warm tubes or look elsewhere - according to your tastes. This does not constitute a fault.