Jazz for aficionados

 

 

Kikoski is a terrific player and he keeps getting better and better. Thanks for the clips, acman3. I liked them very much. His playing has a very “up” quality; reminiscent of Chick Corea in that regard. Check out his solo on this. Wonderful! And with a 94(!) year old Roy Haynes. I hope I can still pick my nose at 94. Incredible!

https://youtu.be/2PNScpLmlgI

With the great Eddie Gomez:

https://youtu.be/1T8EChcqU1Q

As pjw says, he gets around a bit:

https://youtu.be/LBdqreqH4mQ

 

 

In his “rant”….I mean, “roll” (😊) mahgister reminds of the importance of an instrumentalist’s ability to “speak” instrumentally. When speaking with other musicians about musicians, players often refer to an instrumentalist’s ability (or not) to “tell a story”; either playing the melody of a song simply but with artful phrasing, or when crafting a great improvised solo. When a genius composer chooses players that not only speak the same language of his compositions, but do so with the same (musical) accent the results can be amazing:

 

“”There’s only two kinds………..” 

 

I love Curtis Fuller’s playing. Wonderful player with a very impressive discography. One of the many impressive things about this great player is the fact that he got a very late start on his instrument. He didn’t start playing trombone until his late teens and by the time he was in his early twenties he has moved to NY and had taken the NYC Jazz scene by storm. Pretty impressive by any standard. I love his tone on the instrument, not particularly brassy, but dark and velvety instead.

I first heard Fuller on this record, when I was collecting anything and all by the great Phil Woods. This record is also a great example of what a great arranger Woods was:

https://youtu.be/8_ILn8GDVts

https://youtu.be/wLv8cPZuBlA

There are many great Curtis Fuller records, but I would wager that if a survey were taken this record would get the most votes for being his greatest. I love the very relaxed vibe of the music on this recording:

https://youtu.be/q-zNWpdcxvQ

https://youtu.be/4BRma2HD8dw

https://youtu.be/gLPXDrxps0Q

**** It remind me of Chet Baker who does not play trumpet either but voice it to speak with it which is very different for me than playing the notes so virtuosively possible it is...****

Great comparison.  I understand what you mean.  They both have a certain warmth in their playing; as if speaking something very intimate.  

Wise statement indeed.  At least there is some truth in the overall comment.  In a way, consistent with the mystery quote 😊.

O-10, not as familiar as I probably should be.  Great player based on what I’ve heard.  I heard him live once with Dexter Gordon and have him on a handful of records by Arthur Blythe and Curtis Lundy.

You’re welcome, skyscraper.  

Nice clip. Interesting interview of a great drummer.

A while back I posted about one of the several times that I went to hear Bill Evans at the Vanguard and he was auditioning drummers. This was in the late 70’s/early 80s and I don’t know if that week was when Zigmund also auditioned, but it was Eddie Gomez on bass. The night I was there he auditioned Bob Moses; presumably to replace the great Joe LaBarbera. I remember that Moses played only two tunes before LaBarbera came back on the set. Zigmund mentions he played the whole set and got the gig. . Moses played two tunes ☹️. (I remember he sounded ok, but.....)

Magical music:

https://youtu.be/KJR5emhtMXo

pjw, glad you liked “Sareen Jurer”. We’ll have to agree to disagree about the length of the bass solo, however.

Bill Evan’s trios were always unique in, first of all, pioneering the “conversational” style of trio playing. IOW, all the players in the trio “converse” with each other throughout, as opposed to the bass and drums being just (or mostly) time keepers for the piano player; and all are fairly equal protagonists. The bass player always got ample time to solo. In the past, bass players were much more limited as soloists than piano or horn players were and this was the main reason that bass solos tended to be short, if they soloed at all. The bass player that blew the door wide open with the ability to play extended solos at the same level as a piano player was Scott Lafaro also of Bill Evans trio fame, as I’m sure you know. Eddie Gomez continued that tradition. Back to “Sareen Jurer”:

You seem to be saying that simply because it is a bass solo that it should be shorter than the other solos. First of all, the length of a player’s solo is governed by the length of the tune and how many choruses the player plays. A player typically plays an entire chorus of the tune or multiple choruses. Often, the number of choruses that a player plays is not predetermined and is (assuming there are no time constraints) determined instead by the trio’s collective sense that the soloist still has more to say.  Except for Blues tunes which are typically 12 measures long, the vast majority of Jazz tunes are 32 measures long; iow, a chorus is 32 measures. “Sareen Jurer” is kind of a crazy tune and a very unusual Jazz tune, it is 68 measures long; very long tune by any standard. Eddie Gomez soloed for just one chorus of the tune; in keeping with standard practice. I happen to think he plays a very interesting solo on that tune and to play only part of a chorus would be musically awkward.

https://www.sheetmusicnow.com/products/sareen-jurer-p403388

Can’t think of many players deserving this much attention. Great Cannonball survey! Thanks! Probably my favorite alto player. Here’s one not posted yet:

https://youtu.be/D821Atw0HwQ

“....too much....”?  I would say, way too little.

I like the rut I’m in.

Gotta love YouTube!!! I’ll get back to Cannonball.  Not sure if this has been posted before.  If not, it should have been.  My favorite quintet of all time. Incredibly free and spontaneous playing:

https://youtu.be/fBoHkB92SU0

Tony Williams looks like he’s ten years old (with a mustache). Look at the size of Ron Carter’s fingers! The man was made for the bass. Oh, and the playing kills.

Building on Rok’s great posts, let’s look at Cannonball the sideman:

https://youtu.be/aKAR2n5Pd_Q

Notice the pseudonym “Buckshot la Funke” on the album jacket which he used when recording outside his label 😊. The man had a sense of humor (clearly also heard in his playing):

https://youtu.be/zwIxcbFkfio

https://youtu.be/YJepDqeddNY

https://youtu.be/UOKar9nG1vw

https://youtu.be/CzOzJGlPFsw

https://youtu.be/rhHsHPlIvsM

A true giant!

Speaking of having a sense of humor:

https://youtu.be/oXn511db_zE

**** That they kept playing it until they got it ’right’? ****

Yup. Or, at least until they had a take that they liked. Some producers want options to choose from later.

**** Does that mean the higher the ’take’ number, the better the performance? ****

Not necessarily. This concerns the first question as well. Sometimes, the producer or leader isn’t exactly sure what he wants, so he may want a version that’s a little faster or maybe a little slower. Or, one take may have a great alto solo, but not so great piano solo. Or, they’ll have a great take 11 and Nat farts during Cannonball’s solo (it happens) and they can’t edit it out.

**** Does the ’take’ number become part of the name of the tune? In other words, if that performance was used later on another disc, would it still be listed as (take 12).****

Not necessarily. More times than not an alternate take is used and nothing is printed about it unless two or more takes of the same time are included on the same record. Or, is a different take than the one on the original record and appearing on a later release. 

**** Is the order in which the tunes appear on the CD / LP of any significance?****

Definitely. They strive for a certain logic or flow in the order. You don’t want two or more ballads back to back, or all the fast tunes back to back for example. Kind of like movements of a symphony.

“…of the same time” should read “….of the same tune.

Keegiam, you’re welcome.  Don’t be a stranger; it’s rubbing off on me 😊

**** They didn’t mention anything by Stravinsky. Hmmmmmmmmm. ****

Who knew?

https://www.openculture.com/2016/10/the-night-when-charlie-parker-played-for-igor-stravinsky-1951.ht...

Thanks, pryso for the reminder of “Keep On Keepin’ On”.  Fantastic documentary

What a wonderful musician and human being Clark Terry was!

 

Did someone say favorite tenor players?

https://youtu.be/C-o8EeITzYM

https://youtu.be/7AZsYsVWJz8

https://youtu.be/NSkRxpF7nbw

https://youtu.be/VBkiZdahsnc

https://youtu.be/svoGEnDX95c

So many more, so little time. So, what is “favorite” anyway? The absence of inclusion above of some of the acknowledged “greatests”, especially the mighty Coltrane might seem strange. I love them also and would acknowledge that they were indeed the greatest, in part on an intellectual level. However, some simply have a way of telling a story that for some reason is crystal clear TO ME and they always put a smile on my face.

Btw, sorry for my absence. Very busy as work gets rolling again and other commitments. No Bay of Pigs aspirations, but hoping…….; and related to “other commitments”.

Best to all and thanks pjw. A beast of a player and undoubtedly a favorite.

https://youtu.be/QCOAvvumyWg

**** And what did I guys tell you? ****

Well, not every day (lately), but at least every couple or so.   Gotta keep track of Rok’s collection 😊

One for you, Marija:

https://youtu.be/PBgUdsyPSqU

**** It looks like there is good stuff to be found beyond '65, after all.... ****

Ya think?!  😊

Ted Rosenthal:

https://youtu.be/4iXoJQOFSco

https://youtu.be/TSk2gwvRfOM

I like Rosenthal very much, but Hicks is definitely on my “favorites” list.  Great record:

https://youtu.be/3D0l-oaqBj8

One of my favorite solo piano records:

https://youtu.be/WZCsH6MgoD4

Another piano player who made some great records post-bell bottoms era and is still making them is Kenny Barron.  A truly special player.  Can’t recommend this record highly enough:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nyVlv6O72z9hVheDxJy913VnP01Jj5izo

Thanks for that, acman3.

Glad you liked it, mahgister.

Here is another interesting pianist that I enjoy. Subtle and introspective approach with a remarkably gentle tone.

https://youtu.be/lmKOVUF6kNY

https://youtu.be/UqydkoacVwg

https://youtu.be/kNhrygNQthw

(Maybe Alex will like this one)

Pryso asks an interesting question.  I agree with all that Rok wrote, but I think that there is, in fact, an answer to the question……in my book, anyway.

OP was an amazing piano player and, to my ears, he definitely had a style.  He was a master of just about every Jazz piano style and I think that his personal style can be said to have been heavily informed by all those styles; not the least of which was his early training in Classical piano.  Still, I think the most prominent influence in his playing was that of Art Tatum.  I agree with Pryso, he never really sounded like a bebop player to me.  If I were to get analytical, I would say that, harmonically, he was more of a traditionalist and, in the same spirit, he played more on the front side of the beat than most bebop and certainly hard bop players.

OP demonstrating different Jazz piano styles:

https://youtu.be/ec-FrnaU0rs

Nice Nat Cole!  Underrated as a piano player.

More Oscar Peterson.  A more analytical look:

https://youtu.be/3cQ1zFMHVXM

https://youtu.be/2bcVy9HL9-E

Me too! Jim Snidero is a great player. A protege of the great (and missed) Phil Woods. 

The venue for this recording, the Deerhead Inn, is in Pennsylvania’s Delaware Water Gap where Woods lived for many years until his passing and where he often performed with his Quintet and also led his big band. A long running Jazz club in the Poconos mountains!

No Blackbird, but a Birdie still:

https://youtu.be/JftaX7p_PHQ

Another Blackbird. Phil, again. Bird would have been proud:

https://youtu.be/dnK910Nua6s

Oops!  Sorry for the double clip post.  The other should have been :

https://youtu.be/z9VpCLyxLfU

Glad you guys liked it. 

Not going to get into an argument between friends 😊, but this comes to mind.

What is a good Jazz singer and not just a good interpreter of songs. Seems to me that same as with instrumentalists they should be able to improvise at a high level. Not just “shoobie doobie doo” their way through a phrase or chorus, but do it at close to the level of a good instrumentalist; and, for starters, actually make the changes and not just gloss over the harmonies like most do. Few have been able to do it. I like Sinatra a lot, and in some ways he was the best, but I never heard him improvise (scat) anywhere near like this:

https://youtu.be/UWupeqhBoJE

https://youtu.be/UWupeqhBoJE

That’s a funny joke, thanks!

Not many could get away telling Buddy to play softer like Torme did in that clip. Amazing drummer, but that Buddy’s personality was not popular among his players is an understatement. Here’s another good one (dark!):

**** A horn player who had been playing with Buddy Rich for many years came back from vacation to hear a rumor that Buddy
had died. He didn’t quite believe it, so he phoned Buddy’s wife and said "Can I speak to Buddy please?"
Buddy’s wife said, "I’m sorry, Buddy passed away last week."
"Oh, I’m sorry to hear that," he said, and hung up.
A couple of hours later, he called her again. "Is Buddy there please?"
"No, I’m sorry. Buddy’s no longer with us," said Buddy’s wife. And hung up the phone.
Ten minutes later, he called Buddy’s wife again. "Can I speak to Buddy please?" he said.
She recognised his voice, and said: "Look, I’ve told you before, BUDDY’S DEAD!" And slammed down the phone.
Two minutes later, and the phone rang again..."Is Buddy at home please?" the horn player asked.
Buddy’s wife was furious. "I’m not going to tell you again, Buddy is dead.. D. E. A. D. DEAD. Why do you keep ringing me to
ask for Buddy???!!!!"
He thought for a moment, and said: "I just love hearing you say it." ****

The stuff of legend. Recorded on Buddy’s tour bus by a friend of mine who shall remain nameless 😊 .  Not for the faint of heart:

https://youtu.be/covUesgI6fA

A real musician he was.  
And if being a great singer wasn’t enough:

https://youtu.be/7bYvZEpHEMA

To the list of his talents one can add pianist, author, actor and composer of over 300 songs including “The Christmas Song”.  Amazing talent! 

pjw, these are a repeat of comments that I wrote last night in response to your question, but I just noticed the post did not go out for some reason. I think I fell asleep before hitting “post” ☺️. They are not in response to more recent comments here.
———
Sure, I’ve witnessed musicians get angry; myself included. It is like in any other profession, sometimes there are serious (musical) disagreements between individuals, personality clashes and occasionally it’s just that a particular individual is an ahole. Of course, being a professional means managing disagreements and personality differences and taking care of business, but sometimes its not possible; or, sometimes someone is just having a bad day. It happens. Obviously, given the state of the music business most will be reluctant to direct anger at the boss, but older more established players have been known to do just that, or even walk out. Re Buddy:

I think Buddy Rich was an amazing drummer. I like much of his work, but not all. In some ways he was perhaps the greatest big band drummer ever……if one likes that aggressive, sometimes “balls to the wall” style of big band playing. I don’t. However, in the context of that style of big band music he was amazing. Personally, I prefer a more fluid and flexible style (Mel Lewis). Obviously, he was more than just a big band drummer, but to my ears some of that aggressive style carried over to his small ensemble playing. There is a saying among musicians that points out that, with some exceptions, a musician plays like the way he is as a person. His playing reflects the personality in one way or another. Sometimes it’s an obvious thing and sometimes subtle. In the clip that I posted previously of he and Mel Torme, Torme had to and ask him to play more quietly.
———
Re recent comments:

I see no reason to take disagreements about favorite musicians personally. We all have preferences. I think Buddy Rich was an incredible drummer; but, according to my musical preferences and sensibilities I can think of other drummers that I feel were better musicians. I think that this is an important distinction.

Great!  Had.not seen that.  Thanks, Pryso.  (Good to see you back, btw).

Great list, pjw!———Very interesting!  Scroll down to the seventh comment for who plays when.  I believe it’s accurate.  The picture is from a different year.

All unique.  All great in their way.  For me, Max Roach.  Why do I feel like marching when Buddy plays? 😊

https://youtu.be/LqsIcAVLsUU

Mel Lewis talks about Buddy Rich. Great stuff!!!!!

https://youtu.be/KTyxnHQ4VHQ

(Btw, the host of this podcast (?) is Loren Schoenberg, Swing tenor player and big band leader, Jazz historian, Jazz dj, and Benny Goodman’s librarian for many years.)

In the spirit of Alex’s survey of little known players. One of the unsung heroes of the alto saxophone genuinely deserving wider recognition, Bob Mover has been a sideman with stars like Charles Mingus, Chet Baker and other greats. One of those guys that become local legends, but somehow their solo careers remain under the radar. I met him while in school in South Florida where he regularly played with another local legend, Ira Sullivan.

Bob Mover, alto saxophone
Kenny Barron, piano
Bob Cranshaw, bass
Steve Williams, drums

https://youtu.be/wE20h-ZRMuU

Very nice vocalist as well:

https://youtu.be/h5I0_HDNIl4

Interesting commentary, especially for fans of the great Jaco Pastorius. Bob Mover talks about growing up and playing with Jaco. Great peeks and insights into the lives of Jazz players of his generation:

https://youtu.be/FwObcgls4L8
———
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBE49F0327C8696A6

Maybe not, sorry.  Anyway, if not, they were from the album “My Heart Tells Me” and the cuts were “Get Out Of Town” and the album title cut.  

I just learned that these Bob Mover clips in previous post may not play unless you have YouTube “Premium” . Maybe they will this time.

https://youtu.be/wE20h-ZRMuU

https://youtu.be/h5I0_HDNIl4

Orchestral musicians prefer Heavy Metal?!  Preferred to “rock, rhythm and blues even Jazz”?!  Orchestral nature?!  Not doubting your experience, but yours has been WAY different from mine.  Maybe I don’t really know what Heavy Metal is.  I’m open to that possibility.  Could you post, or at least mention, some examples.  I would appreciate it.

Why not!

One of the greatest Jazz records of all time, IMO; and if I’m not mistaken, the very first record that I mentioned on this thread.

Amazing lineup. What is interesting about the lineup is not only that each of the players was one of very greatest on his instrument (some might argue the greatest), but just how varied their respective styles were. The quiet introspection of BILL Evans to the fiery hard bop of Hubbard to the wild abstractions (😉) of Dolphy. And it works! Add to that the writing of Oliver Nelson, one of the greatest composer/arrangers of the music and you have something really special. Of particular note for me is the reminder of just how good a saxophone player Nelson was. His playing on the record gives a wonderful peek into the mind of a composer. The logic in his solos beautifully reflects how a composer thinks; with solos which are a model of motivic development. Classic compositional and improvisation approach: take a simple musical idea (motif) and build an entire solo using and developing that idea:

https://youtu.be/SlkkQiZ-gV4

Oh, and the record features what I feel is one of the very best solos by my favorite Jazz trumpet player. Perhaps the Nelson influence, but another great example of motivic development:

https://youtu.be/44DfWE0gatQ

Did I say I really like the record? 😊

In fairness to Cedar Walton, “Glass Beads GAMES” (😉) is Jordan’s tune. It is a tune with rather obtuse chord changes without a typical “logic” to them and hence are difficult to improvise over. It would make sense that the composer (Jordan) would feel much more at home navigating those changes than a sideman would, even one as accomplished as Walton and who may have seen the tune for the first time at the recording session. Having said all that, while Walton doesn’t exactly burn through the changes, I wouldn’t say it is a glaring problem.

In fairness to acman3 (absolutely exceptional recent posts, btw), “Glass Beads GAMES” (😉) is the title of the album and also the title of the tune in question. Since there are twelve tunes on the album, I had the same initial reaction in wondering which tune on the album was the one Walton supposedly had trouble with.

Speaking of piano players being thrown off guard by unfamiliar obtuse chord changes, this is the “classic” and often cited example. After stumbling through the first few measures, he literally gives up (“fuc# it”) and barely manages to finish the chorus by simply comping the changes:

https://youtu.be/30FTr6G53VU

I think there can be agreement that, when all is said and done, the most important component of Jazz is the improvisation. A beautifully stylized melody, or beautifully crafted arrangement are wonderful in their own right, but it is the improvisation that gets to the heart of the matter. As great as many of the musicians that have been featured here are, few of them can, or could tilt the balance of all of those components to the side of pure improvisation and still hold the listener’s interest. To do it in the context of a piano-less (no harmony instrument) context in which the melody instrument is solely responsible for clearly defining the harmony of the tune, all the while improvising is even more of a challenge.

Lee Konitz was one of those that could, IMO; although I admit I have to be in the mood for such a bare-bones approach to Jazz. Even the melodies of the tunes are presented in only snippets and hints interspersed within the improvisations.

The presence of Elvin Jones on this record is particularly interesting. Not a drummer one usually associates with the rhythm section of a horn player who clearly has a “cool” tone approach like that of Konitz; even if his harmonic sense was clearly very modern.

I love this record……when in the mood…..maybe it’s the endless rain up here in the North East ☺️

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLh_UKQFKe9Fe056ZVtEo6aD_cf18c_3H

Thanks for your concern, mary_jo.  Pretty wet around here.  Really amazing amount of rain the last few days.  A lot of flooding in NYC, but thankfully my home has stayed dry…mostly. 

https://youtu.be/9jDpI5-NzXI

https://youtu.be/V_25vU4Rdeg

mahgister, I could not agree more, Tom Harrell is a genius.  I’ve been a fan of his playing for many years.  The comparison to Marsalis is almost irrelevant; two entirely different types of players.  Harrell is not the instrumental virtuoso that Marsalis is, but Harrell is a remarkable creativity virtuoso.  
Knowing a little about what you admire in a musician, I can understand why Harrell appeals to you.  There is a warmth in his sound that is reminiscent of Chet Baker; the expression of humanity. His playing is very lyrical, like Baker’s, but with a more advanced (modern) harmonic concept.  This is not intended as a criticism of Baker; two players representative of two different periods in the evolution of the music.  

One of the many remarkable things about Harrell is that his musical spirit is so strong in spite of the fact that he suffers from the mental illness, paranoid schizophrenia.  When he plays is the only time he shows no signs of the illness. Remarkable human being.

Great Kenton, pjw.  You’re right, he doesn’t get much mention here.  Who’s who of Jazz for sure.  Many forget who was one of his lead alto players for a while:

https://youtu.be/kiVMOLjXbdU

https://youtu.be/EAsIPhvpTvU