Jazz for aficionados
The Duke answered this question years ago. I don't know why people insist on making Jazz some kind of fly by night music that goes in and out of style like some teenage top forty 'hit'. The 'good stuff' goes through life with you. There is no new and old. Just the good and the other kind. Today I was watching a thing on youtube about 'million dollar' stereo systems. The most beautiful rig I have ever seen. Had three 10" RTR decks. Power amps the size of dog houses. You get the picture. One of the tunes he played on the RTR was "house of the rising sun". Didn't catch the female singing. Couldn't hold a candle to Dee Dee, but there it was. Now read the wiki article. Note the dates, times and places concerning the 'origin' of House of the rising sun. Without doubt, it goes in the 'good stuff' column. Humans will be playing it forever. Only the 'other kind' is blown away by time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_of_the_Rising_Sun#Origin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sOygJsLDc4&list=RDMM6sOygJsLDc4&start_radio=1 Cheers |
Questions to The Frogman: A person sits in front of a stereo system and listens to a tune he has never heard before. He does not know the group playing. He has no prior knowledge of any aspect of the music he is about to hear. Can a person tell just from how the music starts and what and how it's played at the beginning, whether or not there will be a vocal component to the tune. Cheers |
You are correct about the guys at Lincoln Center. That's why they are so important. They can play the old good stuff sometimes even better than it was in the past. They are better schooled musicians, have better recording technology, and a master arranger. They keep it alive. My fantasy wish: Some people with the right voices would go back and redo all the great R&B and Motown stuff, using all the modern advances in recording tech, better arrangements and instrumentation, better musicians. Wouldn't that be something! The way The Supremes and The Temptations were recorded is a crime. Cheers |
Today's Listen: The most hated / feared group on Aficionados. Also maybe the best. Duke Ellington said they were 'beyond category'. From a few days ago, this is the real best version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU-n68b9yPw&list=PLFrtbCBlUofgXYy7_xOG5BfIjTKCsdB5w&index=9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKt8dRdb5-4&list=PLFrtbCBlUofgXYy7_xOG5BfIjTKCsdB5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsiwAiG_jz0&list=PLFrtbCBlUofgXYy7_xOG5BfIjTKCsdB5w&index=4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIdSaCXBT24&list=PLFrtbCBlUofgXYy7_xOG5BfIjTKCsdB5w&index=7 Cheers |
Well, I must confess Sousa is one of my favorite composers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyrmVBfe2Bg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GD-5mRyaJw The Brits are very good at Marches, esp since they have 3 bands for every Infantryman. Cheers |
*****
My fundamental thesis is that good jazz is no longer being "created". ***** The same can be said of 'Classical' music. As far as I am concerned it can be said of all music. There is no natural law being broken here. Nature does not demand that music maintain a certain level forever. Think of all the people who lived when there was no means of listening to music in the home. Be glad you lived doing a time when you could hear Ellington et al in your home. Rock music killed it all. The drugs, the no-talent 'rock stars', personality cults, clueless worshipers(fans) , obscene money. Society used to act as the guy on the GONG show. I think Ella was 'run off' the stage at the Apollo in Harlem. Now everyone gets a trophy, be it little league or entertainment. Hebert von Karajan, the long time great conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic said towards the end of his career, that we were approaching a time when "everything will be 10th rate", he was speaking of the arts and artists. He was right. I have 3000+ CDs, over a third of them Jazz, and 7 CD players. I can stay in the 60's forever. Cheers |
Fantastic Bolero story. I used to wonder those things myself. I always wondered what would happen if he dropped a stick. On one of the Bolero performances at The Proms, a cloth on the drum head is seen slowing sliding off the drum head. What was that? Whatever it was, he was powerless to do anything. Thanks for the answer Frogman. I always thought I could tell because of what I perceived to be a drop in volume and / or a slowing of tempo, just prior to the vocals coming in. Informative answer. Thanks Cheers |
Questions to The Frogman: What makes this Jazz? Or even more to the point, what makes this music? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk9NaHsobew Cheers |
Now you know why only the OP can afford them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5EMrFsT7V4 Reminds me of programs I've seen on Rolls Royce and Porsche assembly lines. The 'million dollar' system I mentioned a few days ago had this speaker. I wonder if they sound better than my Polks? Cheers |
Excellent points OP. Gunther Schuller indeed!! I suggest he stick to defining Rock music. Besides Jelly Roll Morton defined Jazz eons ago. And he should know, after all, he invented the genre. Probably a little before Herr Schuller's time. I hereby declare the band with a guy playing 'hand saw' to be progressive rock. Now we can all move on. Cheers |
That WDR German radio band seems to travel in good company. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSqHZy3JbH4 Love Brecker on this one. Cheers |
2nd AD - Ft Hood, 3rd Armored Cavalry - Ft Bliss, 4th ID - Ft Carson, 2ID - Korea, 1CD - Ft Hood. First Cavalry is almost as good at self-promotion as the Marine Corps. That's saying something. My sister worked for the Army in Berlin as a Teacher of English to soldiers to whom English was a Second Language. Mostly Hispanic. She thought the Berlin Brigade was the best thing since sliced bread. She based this on their sharp appearance. :) I always thought they were for show, because in case of war, they could immediately kiss their asses goodbye. Cheers |
Seems as if everyone is scaling down. I think it was preordained by the advent of the CD player. The vinyl brigade is holding out, but eventually it'll all be one or two boxes. And Polks of course. That's the one thing I didn't like about the digital disc, There was nothing for me to do. I didn't feel involved. But I got over it. Cheers |
schubert, I think I just googled First Cavalry Division shoulder patch, selected the one I wanted, then saved as, and then did the thingy with Audiogon. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1AWFA_enUS764US767&tbm=isch&q=first+cav+div+shoulder+patch&backchip=online_chips:7th+cavalry+regiment&chips=q:first+cav+div+shoulder+patch&usg=AI4_-kSQ1r4-QjJYChFb4zM3BxoBRycVcA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi49brP687kAhVFiqwKHYTRDLUQ3VYIKigA&biw=1252&bih=626&dpr=2 I did it for all the Divisons I served in. I change my moniker every now and then. Cheers |
Imprint -- To fix indelibly or permanently (as on the memory) webster I had an aunt that passed away back in 1999. Very sophisticated woman. Well traveled, Berkeley, HS Principal, taught Latin in High school. Her former students in large cities, LA, Detroit and esp Chicago, formed clubs of former students and would invite her and honor her like royalty. She loved the attention. Made 'ladies' of hundreds of girls she taught through various social clubs. Embraced all things new and modern. Loved music. Played the huge pipe organ at our church. When she died I received her floor standing console music player. A lot of wood! Mono, one speaker. And on the platter when I opened the top: A 78 rpm record of Duke Ellington and his Orchestra. I just smiled. She stayed true to her time. The definition at the top explains why. That's why we don't need no stinkin' New Jazz. Cheers |
*****
Rok, the reason I keep going back to the 2015 jazz poll is because I'm trying to refute my own thesis that good jazz is no longer being created.***** The Jazz you are speaking of is gone. Gone. Accept that fact. Also we must accept that once Wynton is no longer with us, that will be the final nail in the coffin of Jazz as we knew it, as far as it being played at the highest level. BUT, there is always a but, look what we do have to be thankful for: The Compact Disc The Internet You Tube Amazon Very good and inexpensive stereo gear (once you get pass the hype, marketing and ignorance, this stuff has never been better or cheaper) Smart phones So, we will always be able to hear the good stuff. And hear it in the best sound quality ever. And the older and better it is, the cheaper it is. So focus on the the bright side. Besides, we probably have not heard all the old stuff yet. Cheers |
Frogman, we have no disagreement. And I don't dislike the people involved, or dis their efforts. We are discussing how Jazz has changed. All the people are just fine. After all, If they can play middle C, they can out play me. And some music will prevail and continue, and it will be called Jazz. It will gain many followers, mostly young, and it will lose many followers, mostly older. That's life. Cheers |
Poinciana: A good example of the later version, with better everything, being actually better. I have the Pershing Disc, who doesn't, and on my copy you can the audience talking throughout, Also, the applause was very perfunctory. Like, oh he's finish, I guess we should applaud. The Paris one is better, but I just wish they would stop trying to speak French. They all do it. It just encourages the French. Cheers |
This thread has been going since
02-24-2013 10:12am. At least Four regulars that have stuck pretty much all the way. Each closing in on 5000 posts. Quite a few folks have jumped in from time to time, to make their comments. Over 1.5 million views!! And to the best of my knowledge, no one, and I mean NO ONE, has ever mentioned Buddy Rich until you did 3 days ago!! Over 6 years and over 17,000 posts, and not one mention of Buddy Rich!. I think Kenny G has at least a mention or two. Of course NOW, The Frogman is all gaga over Rich. How predictable.. A few corrections to follow. Cheers |
Today's Listen: Cannonball Adderley -- CANNONBALL AND THE POLL WINNERS The poll winners were Ray Brown, Wes Montgomery and Cannonball. This grouping came about almost by accident, Cannonball was playing in SF at the Jazz Workshop, Oscar Peterson, with Ray brown, was at the Black-Hawk, also in SF, and Wes was across the bay in Oakland. All that talent by chance within a stone's throw of each other. there was such depth in Jazz at that time. Made the polls fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cdxRHctXxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE5ozZro9Ng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Tg7S9T5E8 Can you imagine the poll contenders for Sax and Trumpet back in the late 50's and early 60's. Cheers |
*****
If you asked some of the jazz legends who are still active like Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, Jack De Johnette, Dave Holland, and Chick Corea if there exists absolutely 0 good jazz artists today because their "ears" tell them so, what do you think their reply would be ???***** I guess your bar for 'Legend' is very low. If these be legends, what are Armstrong, Ellington, Mingus, Basie, Young, Morgan, Miles, Trane etc....?? I assume you get the drift. Being a Jazz fan means more than just being able to regurgitate Media hype. We can all read for ourselves. Btw, no one said there were 0 good Jazz artist. The straw-man game has been played and defeated long ago on this thread. Cheers |
Jazz be Gone?: All your points support mine. We are in total agreement. I say it's gone, you say it's not being recorded, very small audience, and you have to go to large cities to hear it. Same thing. When scientist say a species is extinct, there may be a handful left, but not enough to maintain the species. ***** His forays into those other segments of “the Jazz you are speaking of” have been been lackluster and not significant. ***** Maybe not to Jazz insiders, players, critics or kingmakers. But to the great unwashed, it is a different story. He is very significant. He tries to stay that way by playing with people like Clapton, Willie Nelson, popular singers, and getting youngsters involved. Frank Wess, like you, is a professional. He sees the entire Jazz scene from a different perspective than does the public. First and foremost, pros want to play. For Love or money. Besides, I have nothing against players because of age. Cheers |
*****
I am so sick of that same old boring "stereotypical" toot toot jazz I could scream.***** OP, you may need to vary your musical diet. Remember Cannonball said it was all the same thing. Scientist say Birds are actually dinosaurs. In that spirit and context, This is Jazz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfscL_f_uyU Listen to the end. Cheers |
*****
Frankly speaking, how any so called jazz aficionado, could put up a post that subtly or indirectly suggests that Buddy Rich was a sub par jazz musician/drummer is absurd.***** I am sorry if my statement came across as subtle or indirect, it was not meant to be either. I said he was a Show-man and a Show-off. If that's too subtle for you, try this: He was a noise making loud mouth bully!! Had no business in Jazz. A media creation. Another Maynard Ferguson type. All show, no substance. (listen to my high C) No one, who is serious about Jazz considered him anything other than a lightweight. That is, except you. For your information, I don't think any real Jazz fan buys an album based on who the drummer is. People loved the messengers not for Blakey's drumming, but for the other personnel in the group, who were most often excellent young players. That is, except you. Cheers |
Way back in the day, when they sang this in my Church, I would inch just a little closer to my Mom. :) They knew how to put the fear of God in you. HUSH!! somebody’s calling my name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVxm7g8xbE4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqYuBfg20Tc note the 'rhythm section' It's all the same thing indeed. Cheers |
