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o10, I have her "Mingus" LP. The live recording from his BD party was interesting the first playing, but became tiresome for me in subsequent listenings. I'd much rather anything like that be placed at the end of the album or even on an enclosed 45. But maybe that's just me? ;^)
I don't really listen to anything I'd call "avant-garde" so have nothing to contribute with that. My old Ornette Coleman would be as close as I'd come. |
frog, as I mentioned, I have "Mingus" on LP so not so easy to skip past the party tape inserts. That is one advantage with CDs. ;^)
Also, if there was only one such interval it would be easier to tolerate. For all that, I like the album for the music and the tribute to Mingus.
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nsp, As you must know, that Alpert cover has become one of the most famous over the years for LPs. Regarding "Time After Time", it becomes confusing because of two different songs with the same title. Baker covered the original while Miles adapted Cyndi Lauper's - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wBgcalM4c4For Sarah, her only album I own is "After Hours", which I think is good, but have nothing else for comparison. o10, not to get political but I can't imagine wanting any present jazz which reflects current society. Too much discord and lack of tolerance. |
This is the only Nancy Wilson album I'm familiar with, not bad to include Cannonball. In spite of her talents it didn't seem to me she had the popularity she deserved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTFEtPXxo0kNow for favorites, this rates high on my list. Some will consider it a transition to jazz from pops/blues, but again, does that matter? It's one of my most played female vocal albums. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0qVdEZKFcc |
acman, you had me with the Zimmy reference. Never heard him called that before. After going back, I think I heard what you suggested. But it was in a couple of her word pronunciations, not in the tone of her voice.
But I have to say, while I liked the original version of "Something", I didn't care for either of those covers.
frog and I discussed songs written by non-jazz artists becoming standards. Of course many songs have been covered by jazz musicians but not always with much success. Great as Sarah was, her attempt fell into that last group for me. So it's not the talent, but either something about the song itself, or likely the arrangement. I'm sure frog could expound on that. ;^)
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o10, maybe I'm mixing sexual too much with romantic ("the most romantic"), but what about Julie London? Before anyone jumps on that, I admit Julie may not have had the jazz chops of many female vocalists, but she certainly could convey a mood or emotion. Almost every time I heard her she blew in my ear. ;^) |
alex, thanks for your posts with links to that classic west coast jazz. How apropos, or at least coincidental. My favored local jazz station I've mentioned before, KSDS FM, is currently running a pledge drive. As usual they are offering some premium gifts to subscribers. One of those was a boxed set of 16 west coast albums (on 10 CDs) which included Perkins, Shank, Cooper, Shorty Rodgers, etc. To generate interest they played several numbers featuring those artists. I sort of remember Perkins from my entry into jazz but honestly had forgotten about him over the ensuing decades. I love his tone so great to hear more of that.
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acman, speaking of Ellis, here is an album I've enjoyed for decades - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLC21IV5yHgAlso I liked that organ trio. It reminded me of my early days with jazz in college. Michigan had several bars which featured B-3 trio jazz. |
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I can't add anything to the discussion of the earliest bebop recording, but I have I believe a related question I'll tag on here. I'm also a bit of a movie buff so when Robert Altman's "Kansas City" was released I saw it. The setting was the 1930s in KC and featured a club with a house jazz band in several scenes. I remember thinking at the time watching the film the music was too modern, some too close to bebop for the '30s. But that has never been an area of particular exposure or knowledge for me. I jumped from the Armstrong/Teagarden style to post bop NYC and west coast jazz of the '50s. Here's a link to the film - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116745/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_1And the soundtrack - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyVNApGCeWE&list=PLA14E2CCB19AEBA3B So my question: did Altman get it wrong and place 40's jazz (early bebop) in his setting for the '30s? Not sure, I might feel different watching it today. |
Since I'm like Lou Costello and have no idea "Who's On First" regarding origins of bebop I'll pose another question. Hopefully it will have general interest plus may be helpful to budding aficionados. Many well known jazz artists have one particular album they are famous for and it is often the first one suggested on a "best buy" list or recommendations for beginners. One easy example is the Dave Brubeck Quartet's "Take Five". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veX9dotK_doHowever as someone who owns at least 20 Brubeck albums that would not be my choice. Instead, I'd recommend this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFrnCnbEJMQ&list=PL64D93478E0879D5BBefore you respond "that's cheating" because it is a double album, consider this. It includes the best known numbers from the "Take Five" album but adds a wider variety. Plus it offers the excitement of a live performance and I feel the audience really inspired the musicians that night. As a secondary part of this game I'll add naming other albums to experience which are not that well known for anyone who wants to explore that artist/group in more depth. Staying with Brubeck here are two I love and recommend - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ieHdRYGCdg&list=PLk5SVLXcQrR5GY-LAcbvh2Of4jwCpSKSyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Uf2pta4-YI'm sure aficionados can suggest many other examples for introductions beyond the tired and true popular albums. |
o10, possibly I didn’t make myself clear in asking for others to post favorite alternatives to the commonly recommended albums. "I’m kind of slow in the head about precisely where you’re coming from, but I’ll try. "Moods" by The Three Sounds is the album I’m going to pick". Nothing against The Three Sounds but they were not my idea of sufficient popularity to make jazz recommendation lists.
If this helps what I had in mind were starters for other albums besides "Take Five", such as your Messengers’ "Moanin’", Evans’ "Waltz For Debbie", Coltrane’s "A Love Supreme" or "Blue Train", Rollins' "Saxophone Colossus", Cannonball's "Somethin' Else", Silver’s "Song For My Father" and so on. "KOB" may not be a good example since I doubt there is a better introduction to Miles, still, others may feel differently.
My idea was for aficionados to list albums they believe offer as much if not more musical reward than the war horses in common recommendation lists. I thought that might have interest for both us long time listeners as well as any jazz "newbies". |
frog, thanks for your contributions (as always).
I think you touched on an important point when you mentioned the new wave of audiophile reissues, with "Waltz For Debby" as a good example. The availability of those as LPs, CDs, downloads, whatever, may influence newer jazz buyers. And some, such as "KOB" and "Take Five" have now been audiophile reissues several times over. But they are at the top for sales of all jazz albums so there have been other influences than simply recommendations by audiophile publications like Stereophile and TAS. More general readership of newspaper, magazine, or online articles also identify mainly the same war horses. It's fun to expand things once in awhile.
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nsp, I really enjoy "Timeless". However I only listen to it late at night with the lights out and a wee dram in my hand. ;^) I've recommended that album to several friends but most don't "get it". Oh well, strokes and folks. Maybe if I furnished the single malt too? Here's a favorite song for me. However, this is a much extended version and with different musicians than the LP, other than Silver. Note all the discussion in the comments about who is in this band. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFjmWI-d6d4 |
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Reports on the death of jazz may be greatly exaggerated.
Last evening I attended a concert I'd looked forward to for a couple of months since learning about it. Our symphony orchestra promotes a sub-set of concerts featuring jazz. I'm not sure how many symphonic music fans also appreciate jazz but I happen to be one. The program was also promoted by our local (college) jazz FM station.
The title was "Kind of Blue -- In Concert". The six musicians were led by local trumpeter Gilbert Castellanos. Bios for the others identified many well know artists they'ed each played with but I was not familiar with these particular artists. Perhaps the best known was Roy McCurdy, the 82 year old (but still spritely) drummer who I should have remembered. They opened with three tunes Miles was well known for, "Bye-bye Blackbird", "'Round Midnight", and "Milestones", then took a break. When they returned they played the KOB album numbers in sequence. Each was of course recognizable but, being jazz, was interpreted individually.
But what pleased me as much as the music was the fact the 2,200 seat hall was sold out! Not only was it full but the applause reinforced the fact the audience knew the music. I found the evening stimulating and encouraging.
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nsp, from that last post I also found this delightful trumpet player. Guess I'm guilty of not thinking of women playing trumpet after high school band. So my bad for that. Anyway, with a testosterone-less orchestra, ;^) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8cNnxLsvdk |
nsp, just goes to show once again it doesn't matter about sex, color, or religion, it's more about what's inside!
acman, that was new to me but I enjoy everything I hear with Mulligan.
Thanks to all for lots of recent posts with rare/unknown music, at least for me.
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nsp, I read that too quickly and thought you suggested Red Rodney. ;^) There's a story that when he toured Southern states with Charlie Parker he was called Albino Red to get around local laws for segregation. Not sure if that's true but it sounds believable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeFFVjFI2VM |
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nsp, frog's reference covered it better, but here is another substantiation. See the second paragraph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_RodneyI remembered it from something shown on PBS maybe a dozen years ago. At least my memory didn't fail me this time. ;^) |
Dinah Washington trivia: she was married to Dick "Night Train" Lane, defensive back with the Detroit Lions.
One thing I appreciated about Dinah was her unique voice, not just her phrasing. Phrasing can be copied but I favor artists who don't "sound" like others. Lady Day was like that too. |
o10, I have a couple of songs with emotional attachments to women in my life when I was younger, but those are far removed from jazz. However encouraged by mary_jo's post I will offer this one, which is closer to jazz because of the artist, if not the song itself. But an introduction is needed to appreciate the meaning. Some of you will remember my previous mention of my introduction to jazz by my dad. At the time he died my folks had moved back close to my sister so she could watch over them. So when we discussed a memorial service with the minister he didn't know dad and ask for some background on his life. One thing mentioned was his love of jazz and his favorite musician being Louie Armstrong. The minister did a credible job at the memorial, but he surprised us all when he referenced dad's love of Satchmo and then brought out a guitar and softly sang "It's A Wonderful World". That was certainly a capper to the service. The song brings me a flood of great memories, but my sister can't bear to hear it now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlDgQOd3p-0 |
o10, not to split hairs, but I doubt many would consider that "classical". It simply utilizes a full orchestra. While it's true that several classical composers wrote scores for films, "soundtracks" seem to have developed their own category of musical classification over the years.
Not having a technical background in music I can't offer a good definition for classical, hopefully friend frog will chime in and enlighten us.
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o10, I'm sorry I failed to read your reference to classical as being humorous. My reply was intended to be gentle since "some" folks probably would consider music by any full orchestra (say more than 60 pieces) to be classical in nature.
Please believe no insult was intended.
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frog, that was a good selection to show how various instruments contribute to orchestral sound. Also the brisk tempo defies the idea that classical music is too slow and plodding. I enjoyed seeing the energy of many of the musicians as they "leaned into it", not unlike many jazz artists might as well.
Regarding taste, I added blueberries, walnuts, and a dash of pure maple syrup to my oatmeal this morning. ;^)
nsp, I can enjoy Mingus any time of day!
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frog, I enjoyed Bernadette's performance, but it can't displace Peggy Lee as #1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGb5IweiYG8&list=PL18E00C84FF26FA25BTW, I've heard that Shelly Manne was drummer on that, but I don't have the record to reference the fact. Also I thought Julie London recorded it too, but I couldn't find it on YouTube. It seems like an obvious choice for her. |
nsp, interesting post on Little Willie John. I just became a teenager about the time rock and roll emerged in popularity. I remember John but strangely not that song in his original version. However in my defense, during the ’50s there were still regional hits, not just a single national Top Twenty. Anyway, that one reminded me of this which was a personal favorite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kIswurDJt4It was a few years later before I developed a serious interest in jazz. But R&R relates to R&B which relates to jazz so there were connections. |
Thanks for joining us supertweak. Weather Report has been a favored band for me for years. And while I realize personal experience can vary a great deal, and I do appreciate "Mysterious Traveler", was that really such a uniquely creative album to distinguish it from earlier WR albums? Maybe I don't have sufficient musical knowledge to make such distinctions. :^( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpDAH_ISCk |
Thanks for the kind words frog. I've not listened to some of my WR albums in some time so I need to give a re-do listen. Off the top of my head I can't pick one I consider exceptional. Favorite(s) may change depending on mood. But I always considered Zawinal to have the prominent role in the band, although Jaco seemed to contribute a lot with both playing and writing once he joined.
I will say the only time I saw them live was after Jaco joined and that was an exceptional performance all 'round.
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acman, great stuff. I was completely unfamiliar with them.
As so many have commented, that's one thing that makes this site so wonderful, so a tip o' the chapeau to o10 for bringing us all together. |
nsp, sorry but I just realized I never confirmed your question about the Chevy pictured with that video. Yes, it was a 1958 Impala. That was the first year the Impala replaced the Bel-Air as their top model. A friend in HS had a turquoise '58 Impala convertible. I was green with envy, but didn't have the long green to buy one. :^(
Speaking of the late '50s, early '60s era, anyone here remember the 45 changers available as automotive accessories then? I knew someone who had one in his '56 Bel-Air convertible but only ever heard it playing records while parked curbside. I wondered how well it did driving over anything but the smoothest streets?
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And now for something completely different. I heard this on my favored jazz station this morning and it raised an interesting question -- what is the most unusual instrument featured in a jazz recording? One seemingly easy answer might be the bagpipes. But a cat named Rufus Harley had several LPs as a leader and he was not the only musician to extemporize on the bag and pipes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBT47aU11PcSo aside from my man Monk on the celeste, I nominate this Artie Shaw number including the harpsichord. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycdINaa8St0Per the internet this piece has been utilized as a theme song by several folks. I first heard it introducing a wonderful radio show on all things automotive from LA many years ago (thanks John and Len) and I enjoyed it. |
Hey frog, thanks for commenting. But while I didn't listen all the way through either of your links I couldn't identify any particular unusual instrument. However comments posted under the first one did say Pascoal played a "live pig" in one concert. I just didn't hear any piggy squeals here. ;^)
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Well, I guess it helps if you know what you're listening for. Yes I heard the oinks and grunts first time but never supposed it might be a piglet. And the first song was a couple minutes in before I read the comments to see the pig reference. So I got it, I just didn't know what I got! ;^) Anyway, I concede that should win the prize for most unusual instrument. frog your follow up with the video bio on Hermeto reminded me of one of my favored rock musicians, someone that admittedly not that many other rock fans appreciate. The Captain hisself, plus band of course - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0uqyjGuxyA |
nsp, it was called "The Car Show", not to be confused with "Car Talk" with Tom and Ray which was syndicated out of Boston, or should I say Harvard Square.
I listened to "The Car Show" directly from an LA FM station which was part of the Pacifica Network. No idea if they had any east coast stations. Len Frank and John Retsic (sp?) were absolutely amazing for their automotive knowledge. Part of the program involved callers with questions about their vehicles. It didn't seem to matter how old or how rare the model, those two knew something about them.
I listened most Saturdays for several years, continuing after Len died suddenly. The Artie Shaw theme music was use throughout.
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+1 o10, I was thinking the same thing.
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acman, not to sound contrarian but for any artist as popular as Coltrane I wonder why a recording would be held back and not issued? Could it have been that Coltrane himself was not satisfied with it? Or someone at Impulse was disappointed? Contract issues? From what I read it was not lost, 'Trane himself had a copy of the tape. It seems he had enough clout to push for a release if he wanted to. And yet we hunger for more from favorite musicians after they are gone. So there can be a ready market for "anything" that has a delayed release. Maybe we'll be lucky and it is an unheard masterpiece. I admit I do enjoy the Monk/Coltrane concert recording discovered a couple of years ago, so not all "newly discovered" tapes are second rate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgq_QZ74VI0 Listening will tell all. ;^) |
frog, thanks for your expansion on the potential quality/importance of this recording and possible reasons for it being "lost".
Under those circumstances I might guess he gave the tape(s) to Naima before they separated. With the typical chaos that involves I can’t imagine him doing that afterwards.
Still, most jazz musicians, even Miles, were not making big $ in the early ’60s. So it would seem reasonable that Trane would have wanted everything released which he approved. Plus the sidemen from that recording would have no doubt ask about a release since it meant some money to them too. So even in the confusion of his personal/marital life at the time it is difficult for me to believe Coltrane simply forgot about it. And more importantly, what bearing did his personal life have on Impulse and their normal production for new release and distribution?
But all that is conjecture now and has little bearing about today’s worth and appreciation for this new release. As I said before, the listening will now tell all.
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Thanks acman. I have a couple Galper LPs but have not played either one for some time. I don't hear him on my favored jazz FM station and also don't recall any references here since I've been following you aficionados. Out of sight out of mind I guess. Also I don't recall ever hearing Cannonball perform "Hey fool" but it seems easily identified as one of his numbers. Here they are together - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUJCj6UNPwg |
pjw, while I appreciate acman’s endorsement, I do have great appreciation for Teagarden’s music, but I’m far from an expert. There are a great number of his recordings I’ve never heard. I came to love his style and tone from listening to Louie Armstrong recordings where he was a member. So influenced by that my top recommendation would be any of T’s recordings made with Armstrong’s All Stars during the late ’40s and early ’50s. The best of those I’ve heard is from their Town Hall Concert 1947 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQm-2N-TW24&list=RDfQm-2N-TW24&t=18That is available in a couple different CD versions. I have it on LP and in a 78 album. I also like him leading his own group here on "big T swings" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9udjEXDpAgAlso this album with an under appreciated trumpet player, Bobby Hackett, at least today if not during his own time - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut25CIF2a1cI have heard a couple of T’s late ’50s, early ’60s which I didn’t enjoy as much. He’d lost his touch and his groups were not as top notch from what I heard. Good luck in finding one or two that bring you great enjoyment. PS - That "Dark Eyes" suggested by acman sounds damn fine to me. |
A recent discussion on Vinyl Asylum brought out a few fans of Anita O'Day, including YT. While searching for a new post of her classic Newport Jazz Festival performance (original I had was deleted) I discovered this "All The Best" album. So I offer that here for fans among you all -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKg9dHt-kgA |
o10, pleased to see you passed through another valley. May you now find a hilltop to rest upon and look around, enjoying all you see and hear.
Brubeck: long one of my favorite musicians, but not without controversy. In my earliest days as a developing jazz fan he received lots of criticism simply because (I believe) he was so popular. I think that generated a lot of resentment, in some part racial. For me he could swing hard or show beauty and lushness in a ballad. His experiments with time and meter went beyond what anyone else I knew of. Certainly some musicians can be accused of riding the coattails of style or technique developed by others, but I don’t believe that could ever be said of Brubeck. And I find much of his music simply fun.
pjw, I fully agree with your point about dixieland. That was a point I should have raised about some of Teagarden’s recordings, the ones I don’t care for either. But the man could play the blues. And while he never ventured into the bebop he did develop with what I consider more "straight ahead jazz" in the late ’40s, early ’50s, that time spent with Armstrong’s All Stars. "St. James Infirmary" and "Rockin' Chair" are prime examples. |
o10 and pjw, I believe I posted this link previously. It is some of Satchmo and the All Stars at Newport 1958. Watch it all or skip ahead to 7:56 when Teagarden joins Louis on "Old Rockin’ Chair". They did this number together many times and I think their love and respect for one another really comes through here. T was no longer a member of the All Stars by this time but footage of them during the time he was is not easy to find. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UGFXB7ytY4 |
o10, I don't have any Kirk recordings so you should ask someone else.
And yes, Satch was certainly an entertainer. But for me that does no discredit to his musical innovations, trumpet skills, and vocal soul (did anyone scat earlier than him?). If you are interested in hearing what I'm talking about I can recommend a few other recordings in addition to the '47 Town Hall concert. Try any of "Satch Plays Fats", "Ella and Louis"/"Ella and Louis Again", "Louis Armstrong & Duke Ellington, The Great Summit/The Master Takes" (sextet, not big band), and "Ambassador Satch".
Now I think you guys are being unnecessarily hard on Frog. From what I've read here I would say he not only has great knowledge of the technical aspects of music but also a deep understanding if its development and history. But he can defend himself I'm certain.
rok, Teagarden was born in Texas and raised in Oklahoma but I've never read anything suggesting any Native American lineage. Regarding general ancestry, there is an interesting series on PBS, "Finding Your Roots". Many black professionals have been profiled there and a significant number have mixed blood from their family history. But that is not unique, some white professionals profiled have as well. I believe our world is more of a melting pot than many care to admit.
pjw, interesting from your quote, I'm not alone in my impressions of Satch and T together.
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Well o10, as long as you are here again I'll offer this. I'm very grateful for your site. I have interest in many genres of music but none more than jazz. And this is the only "music site" I participate in. I truly enjoy nearly all of the discussion and musical references. I'm glad when I can contribute anything and also pleased by what I learn from others.
Some might call this a mutual admiration society -- ;^) -- but I think that fails to acknowledge the variety of taste, values, and perspectives this group brings together. Only the broad subject of jazz and individual knowledge thereof is common.
So we all owe you a huge thanks for your inspiration to begin this site and energy and devotion to carry it forward. May you continue to do so for a long time to come. |
