nsp, I agree with acman3; my opinion of Wynton’s IMPROVISING also has softened. As a trumpet player he has few equals; some might argue, no equal. As a bandleader he is great. As an educator and advocate for jazz, particularly its roots, he is fantastic. He has become such an important personality in jazz that I think the “beef” that many critics and players had/have has become rather moot. The beef was that the level of attention, notoriety and fame that he received was considered by some as not being deserved relative to the quality of his jazz playing. The feeling was that his playing somehow lacked soulfulness; that it was dominated by feats of virtuosity and, as older players like Miles would say, “he doesn’t say “sh$t”. I agreed to a degree. While I acknowledge that this is a subjective thing, I was seldom particularly impressed by his “story telling”, but the gorgeous sound and amazing command of the instrument usually held my attention. My opinion on this has softened because I think he continues to grow as an improviser. The solo on the Ruben Blades clip is a good example. I must say, however, that there are other current trumpet players that I find more interesting. Tom Harrell is a favorite. Not too many players can play an extended solo without the help of a rhythm section. His time feel is so strong that one almost doesn’t miss the bass or drums. His command of harmony is so good that one can follow the changes of the tune without the help of a harmony instrument (piano or guitar). Beautiful warm sound: https://youtu.be/Gw5bXS5VZcU |
Give us your impressions when you have a chance to hear both. |
Thanks, Rok. This too shall pass....we hope. Ray’s “America The Beautiful”. He really was a genius. Thanks, Schubert. https://youtu.be/xxA0Q1WTmXA |
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Thanks for “Hymn For The Fallen”; always an extremely thought provoking day today. On a lighter note: https://youtu.be/gmVNhgrKnxY(Not very “limited” at all. I think most here would agree) |
Jack Sheldon!!! Now, there’s a trumpet player who has remained under the radar here. Actually, I think I posted one clip he played on early in the history of this thread. Swinging West Coast player who many of my generation heard in the house band for the Merv Griffin TV show of yesteryear; could sing also.
Glad to see a retraction of Wynton as “punk” (Btw, good to see you here Isochronism). While I have never been a big fan of Wynton as a particularly interesting jazz player I don’t think that his importance as a figure in the overall scheme of the Jazz scene can be overstated. He (and Brandford) came along when, correctly or not, the general feeling among many Jazz lovers was that “Jazz is dead”. The brothers and the wave of “young lions” that they ushered in served to bring new life to the music and, most importantly in Wynton’s case, increased public awareness of the music and it’s history. Wynton’s public persona, huge ego and all, has probably done more to bring new listeners to Jazz than anyone else in the last 30+ years. While I agree that AS IMPROVISERS Branford is probably the most talented in the family, Wynton’s other talents as band leader, educator and promoter of the music (particularly its roots) do far more for the music than any lasting contribution that Brandford will make as a saxophone stylist. Don’t get me wrong, I like Brandford’s playing a lot, but will his legacy as a mostly derivative stylist be as long lasting and influential as Wynton’s legacy in other areas will be? No way! I also think that for the purposes of discussions like this it’s important to make a distinction between “jazz player” and “instrumentalist” (trumpet player). Branford is more interesting (“better”) jazz player. As an instrumentalist, Wynton’s trumpet playing is close to as good as it gets. He is a pretty amazing trumpet virtuoso.
Btw, Schubert, thanks for the Branford “Dance OTET” clip. I had not heard that and I liked it a lot. Great stuff!
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Great clip indeed, nsp! Thanks for that. **** Daniels is elegance itself , magnificent player ! **** Perfect description, Schubert. Karolina sounds great as well with a beautifully constructed solo over a difficult harmonic progression and with a lovely modern sound. The art of woodwind doubling places very unique and difficult demands on players and few have been able to do it at a level that is equally high on all the instruments. Eddie Daniels took it to a level probably higher than anyone else. He has been a legend among woodwind players for decades and since he was just a kid from Brooklyn. He was the idol of countless woodwind players on the NYC scene before gaining international fame. Amazing virtuoso on saxophones, clarinets and flutes. A style as an improviser that some have described as a little calculated and sterile. I disagree. As an instrumentalist and particularly on clarinet he is incredible. Elegant, beautifully refined and distinctive sound with mind boggling technique on an instrument that many saxophone players jokingly refer to as “the misery stick” because of its difficulty. Eddie on tenor: https://youtu.be/nXFsL0leb2ghttps://youtu.be/hE8inh5yy_AOn flute: https://youtu.be/Wv2Q2ivSA1A |
Thanks all for the great Paul Bley! I truly appreciate it as I am almost embarrassed to admit that I was only marginally familiar with this great player’s music. I have pretty much immersed myself in his recordings over the last couple of days. That “If I Should Lose You” is possibly the most beautiful version of the tune I have heard. Thanks, Alex! Listening to the clips posted I kept thinking Keith Jarrett, Keith Jarrett. Keith Jarrett, but without the hard to explain annoying quality that causes me to have a love-hate feeling about Jarrett’s playing. VERY similar emphasis and way with motivic development, but without the pretense that I often hear in Jarrett’s playing. I came across these comments in a review of Bley’s “Footloose” by Ethan Iverson (critic and pianist in The Bad Plus trio): **** Because it was the first album with Bley at full power, it’s possible that Footloose! is Bley’s most influential recording. It certainly made a big impression on certain pianists the time: Most famously, Keith Jarrett has never denied his debt to Bley and Footloose! in particular. This natural progression is somewhat controversial. Insiders commonly snark that Jarrett should give Bley royalties, and perhaps Bley himself is a bit bitter about how Jarrett became such a superstar using some of the tools Bley invented. After hearing Jarrett’s 2000 free jazz release Inside Out, Bley joked to me that “Now, after all these years, Keith has finally figured out how to sound exactly like I did in 1964.” **** https://youtu.be/-h4i9JjfFXAVery wide scope. As Schubert pointed out, he covered a lot of ground: https://youtu.be/w3xaFqyKSpo |
You know, in some ways you have really good instincts for music. However, your ego and ideology get in the way of becoming a better listener. Its all there to be heard and it is obvious when one becomes a more open minded, hence better, listener. Some prefer to limit the experience of listening to what supports one’s ideology. A personal choice; but opportunity lost.
Btw, I know Burns’ doc well and there is no inconsistency.
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nsp, I agree with your descriptions of Bley/Jarrett and their respective styles. Thanks for the recommendations; will check them out. Roy Clark was indeed a great guitar player. Another fantastic “Country” player was Glen Campbell who was a very in-demand session player, notably as member of the great “The Wrecking Crew” backing band before achieving solo and TV fame; not to mention prolific songwriter. With all the mention of Japanese piano players, surprised no mention of Makoto Ozone. Absolutely brilliant player: https://youtu.be/HIO75qZM7z4He had a long working relationship with the great Gary Burton: https://youtu.be/1lAlV6hMCS4Schubert mentioned Paquito: https://youtu.be/vOOmNvvQtJcI generally don’t like naming “best” this or that; particularly in Jazz. However, here is Makoto with, if forced to choose and stylistic preferences aside, probably the greatest saxophone virtuoso to ever live. His “complete control” of the instrument was simply incredible: https://youtu.be/GRFMG5C2PPA |
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Checks and balances. The checks and balances of life and on humanity which are like Jazz itself. For it to succeed there has to be a joint effort between all sides; compromise for the tune to really swing. If any one side insists that its (musical) viewpoint is THE one and there should be no consideration at all of the other then the feel of the tune will suck. When our side doesn’t get its way the all-too-human reaction is pessimism about the state of humanity. The same as the needless and pointless pessimism about the state of Jazz. All this in spite of example after example that point to why one should feel optimistic not pessimistic. Important to understand that the reason that we didn’t get our way is often just the message that we had gone too far with OUR viewpoint. Checks and balances. With the recent mentions and posts of late Coltrane and its ferocity I find it amazing that the same player can also play with this kind of sensitivity and gentle beauty. As far as I’m concerned Coltrane’s solo on this is one of the most beautiful and lyrical jazz solos ever. Cause for optimism: https://youtu.be/PoPL7BExSQU |
Oh, c’mon! That was too good; no editing allowed 😊 |
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Schubert, Potsdam is a great town; thanks for the recommendation. Cold winters I’m sure and my wife would love it; not to mention closer to her family in NH. About 4.5 hours north of our place in Andes (Delaware County).
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No Aspen, Vail, twice; for starters.
**** But 10 seconds in you get New Jersey in your faceiitis ****
That’s a new one for Pepper. Huh?!
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Schubert, truth is I don’t like Vail the town, but the playing is always great.
Interesting re Rudy. Wasn’t quite following your cryptic comment since I wasn’t wearing my audiophile hat, but I actually agree. I have never liked the way the baritone was recorded on that record, but there is a story there that explains the in your face sound...in part. The geeks may find it interesting to know that shortly before recording that record, Pepper Adams had to give up his mouthpiece of many years due to having bitten through the tooth plate. He switched to a Dukoff mouthpiece known for a very bright aggressive sound. Still, better (less close) mic placement would probably have helped a great deal. Funny, I had forgotten that was a RVG recording. That was probably the reason; I like most of his work.
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“Conversation” is the key in jazz; and as you say, always best when done with love. This musical event makes the point of your comment, so I’ll post the clip again. Check out how Pepper starts his solo @ 1:45. Remember that little melodic fragment that he plays and then goes on to turn inside out and develop. He plays for three minutes and then Thad plays @ 4:36. Check out how Thad starts HIS solo. That’s love; or, at the very, least extreme respect: https://youtu.be/WaCfDeZJPIU |
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pjw, re Thad and Mel: I can’t think of a bad recording, but I am partial to the first three and would be a great place to start. “Live At The Village Vanguard”, “Consummation” and “Central Park North”. The 2016 two disc release “All My Yesterdays” includes the debut performances at TVV and is great. The lineups on those record are simply amazing and include, Joe Henderson, Eddie Daniels, Joe Farrell, Richard Davis, Roland Hanna and many other greats. Re baritone players: Gary Smulyan took over Pepper Adams’ spot and has been there since. Great player: https://youtu.be/JVEZKxLTKiwhttps://youtu.be/3yLbb2VTk9M |
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**** This is the first new jazz that’s impressed me. ****
That is quite a statement.
Honest question. Where do you, O-10 draw the “new” line? New in 2020? New since 2000?
Since we’re being honest. FOR ME, Kokoroko is enjoyable and fun enough. Most impressive new Jazz? Not even close. I’m not even sure I would call it Jazz. Just me.
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Slower tempos are always much harder than fast ones. Still just 4/4.
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Eddie Daniels’ “Breakthrough” is a wonderful record; nice score. You may find this interesting. Nice insight into the career of this wonderful musician and interesting individual. Anyone not interested in the “geeky” stuff can skip to 1:03:30 for the music. https://youtu.be/qnNGVP95eOc |
And, digitally recorded. It IS possible. Really good by any standard and the sound’s character suits the music’s Third Stream vibe. Not sure Mozart Clarinet Concerto with that particular string sound aesthetic would be the standard setter. |
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Great Benny Goodman clips. Thanks all. Benny was wonderful. The whole issue of “best of all time” is an impossible determination. The context of where the music was at in its evolution puts it all in the only valid perspective, imo. Great comments and observations re recent clips posted. During Benny’s time the demands on players where very different in many ways. There was a different ensemble playing aesthetic and the softer sounding (than saxophones) clarinet could be featured in a big band or lead the reed section. As Jazz evolved toward the modern and electric it generally became more aggressive volume wise and players’ sounds evolved likewise toward a brighter and more aggressive approach (Pepper Adams/nsp). The clarinet didn’t stand a chance. Not only because it is not capable of the same sheer volume as a saxophone, but as Jazz evolved to a more harmonically sophisticated and challenging language, the clarinet’s poor logic in its key (fingering) system made the instrument much more difficult to play with the kind of harmonically extended approach to improvisation that became standard post-big band era. The saxophone has a certain logic to its fingering system that makes it much more conducive to the speed of bebop and the patterns-based Coltrane approach. In light of this, Eddie Daniels’ accomplishment is that much more impressive. He talks about this in the interview portion of the clip I posted earlier. Btw, Schubert, GRP records was known for being one of the first entirely digital record companies. pjw, let us know how you like the Thad and Mel records. Per your comment, it was such a different time (perspective): https://youtu.be/YsJScuVa_HI |
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Wonderful Teddy Edwards who sadly passed away several years ago. Very nice record, Schubert. pjw, speaking of Thad and Mel, Rich Perry has occupied one of the tenor chairs in that band for about twenty five years; post the recordings that you just received until the present. Great player! https://youtu.be/2AElgt5NwI8 |
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Eddie Harris was a genius. Lots posted here early on; and, in fact, I would venture to say that “Compared To What” has been posted here more times than any other single tune. Don’t have the time to dig it up right now, but there is video on YouTube of that very live performance; definitely worth checking out. For me, Benny Bailey’s trumpet solo has always been at the top of my list of most exciting Jazz solos ever.
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Btw, thanks for mentioning Eddie Harris, pjw. He and players like Hank Crawford gave birth to a groove-based style of saxophone playing that all the Smooth Jazz pin heads (known to some jazz players as “mosquitos” because many sound like the buzz/whining of mosquitos) would emulate. It was all about the groove without having to scream: https://youtu.be/CsHtO_i4qzMhttps://youtu.be/kf7FB4ilX5w |
https://youtu.be/kCDMQqDUtv4Apology to all Smooth Jazz saxophone players for the “pin head” comment. Just me; can’t stand that style of playing. |
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Beautiful Gilberto, pjw. Thanks! That record with Getz has been a favorite for a many years. |
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A wealth of riches! Fantastic Joe Henderson clips. Thanks, all. Gotta love YouTube! Check out Joe’s solo as a member of the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra live in 1970. Amazing! One of the very few modern tenor players whose playing shows practically no hint of Coltrane. Total original: https://youtu.be/hTFhcL-YrDUFast forward to 31:12 (if you must ☹️) to hear Joe trade fours with Eddie Daniels. |
Schubert, Falletta is a gem! Good luck with that 😊
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