Thanks ghost, I’m glad there is still someone else out there. Here’s another Sarah. When I started buying jazz albums I joined the Columbia Record Club, something like 10 or 12 LPs for pocket change. "After Hours" was one of my initial choices. I also picked up a couple of other decent ones -- Miles’ "KOB" and Mulligan’s "What Is There To Say?". Can’t say now I remember all the others but that was a pretty strong start. ;^) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAwSrc4u6z8&list=RDIAwSrc4u6z8&t=20 |
Wow, that Sarah and Ella comparison was certainly interesting. I got a real "smokey" vs clarity reaction, even on my iMac built-in speakers.
But apparently the irony was that Sarah died of lung cancer.
And yes, I certainly hope that o10 is simply resting up. OK, I'm not always wanting to read all his posts, but his heart is in it and his jazz contributions make it all worthwhile. |
A personal perspective on Ella. She offered many elements of greatness, no quibble about that. But I never cared for one of her best known attributes -- her scat singing. To be fair, scatting is something I can do without in general, few singers pull it off to my enjoyment.
So I know this can be sacrilegious to many jazz fans but Ella is not among the top level of vocalists I choose to listen to. YMMV. ;^)
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ghost, "Diva" is one of my favorite sleeper movies. Not many people know about it I don't believe. I was lucky to find the soundtrack on vinyl. frog, as I've mentioned, while I appreciate Ella's talents, she is not a top favorite female vocalist for me. The exceptions are the recordings she made with Satch. I've posted it before but to me this is about as good as it gets for a jazz vocal - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcMmVGrzpy8 |
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All this bass clarinet info has been enlightening. Yes, taste is personal but I do see its place in jazz. In many examples I'm drawn in by the rich tonalities, similar to but not the same as the bari sax.
I had no idea so much was available, so thanks to all who posted links. In particular, not sure how I missed so much Dolphy, but I don't have a single album with him as the leader. A couple of Mingus albums but I'm not sure what else as a sideman?
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frog and nsp, thanks for suggesting "Out To Lunch", but a short story on that.
A few years ago I bought a new copy of that LP, along with two others (Rollins and Griffin) on Blue Note at a local dealer. I'd read where that Dolphy album was recommended so pleased to find it had been reissued. But then before I broke the seals to play any of them I read comments online about very poor sonics with pressings by Scorpio who was apparently doing all the US Blue Note reissues at the time. So I set them aside with the intent or returning them, but became preoccupied with other things and forgot about them.
Recently in sorting through my jazz catalog I discovered them again, but have been on the fence about opening them to play. So if any of you have experience with reissued Blue Notes pressed by Scorpio I'd appreciate any comments about the sonic qualities. I'm not expecting them to have the quality of the Music Matters reissues, but if they sound thin, undynamic, etc. then I won't bother.
Thanks
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Bowie’s "I Only Have Eyes For You" just grabs me, but maybe because I’m old enough to be nostalgic about the time when it was released as a pop vocal? frog, you should have said that in your best Foghorn Leghorn accent! ;^) nap, thanks for replying. This won’t help since they are still sealed and I can’t see the labels, but they were inexpensive, about $12 I believe. I should have expected they might not have decent sonics at that price, but I have bought some OJCs inexpensively which are not bad. There is nothing on the jackets to suggest who or when produced since they are reproductions of the original Blue Note albums. I bought them at least five years ago, maybe more (as mentioned, I’d forgotten about them). So my question to you, do you have any stamped for Scorpio, and if so what are their sonics? Unusual or gimmicky instrumentation in jazz? Here’s my candidate for the extreme - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmaicurzPb0 |
nsp, yes, I assume it appears there. I don’t happen to own any Scorpios, unless these three unopened albums might be. But I think Scorpio did inexpensive reissues and as I said, there were only about $12 each.
I only remember reading several warnings about Scorpio quality not long after buying them.
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rok, all great stuff.
I only have one of the Monk London discs. Super solos.
And your Saturday night took me back to high school. ;^)
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OK, if any of you are feeling adventuresome, here is a challenge. This should capture the all-time award for the most unusual jazz instrument recording. Only problem is I couldn't find any. So find one of these, practice up, make your own recording and the crown will be yours! ;^) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XlEkeot7HMCan't wait to hear your take on "I Only Have Eyes For You"!!! |
rok, no doubt frogman can give a more complete answer. But I'll share a recent experience.
Friday evening I attended a concert by The Academy of Saint Martin In The Fields (a top level chamber orchestra for those who don't listen to classical music). The famed violinist Joshua Bell is now music director, replacing Sir Neville Marriner. Bell performed as first violinist and did in fact conduct from his chair there. Not the usual direction through each piece as a traditional conductor would do but directing the downbeat and stops with his bow. If other directions were existent perhaps frog can suggest those.
Whether duo, trio, quartet, etc. up to chamber orchestras (maybe 30 some members) someone must be designated to give minimal directions, even if it is simply a nod of the head. |
nsp, I tried to correct your name in my prior reply on the Scorpio pressings but I see "spell correct" did me in again.
Anyway, if you're willing to check them out I thought I should save you some time by identifying the three specific albums in question. So, Dolphy's "Out To Lunch" (BN 4163), Rollins' "Newk's Time" (BN 4001), and Griffin's "The Congregation" (BN 1580) are the ones I curious about recording quality, particularly if you have Scorpios.
Thanks to you or anyone who can comment on this. |
o10, so glad to see you back again. Stick around this time! ;^)
rok, I have Vol.1 of Monk's London Collection. Mine is the original Black Lion release and that has four pages of liner notes (CD sized) discussing background and comments on the selections. Lack of materials can be a problem with reissues. |
Wow! $100 for a used CD? I had no idea as I've only checked value for a few LPs.
I'm going through my CD collection now and will be reducing my LPs next. I was going to post an invitation to any aficionados here to contact me if they'd like to see a list of what I want get rid of. Maybe I should check eBay first for an idea about pricing. ;^)
Really, I'm not looking to make lots of money, but at my age I'm certain I won't listen to everything I own again so need to clear out all the non-favorites.
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nsp, thanks for checking those. Guess I need to resort to the only reasonable answer, break the seals and play the records so I can check myself. ;^) frog, a little trivia on Dinah Washington. She was married to Dick "Night Train" Lane, a defensive back for the Detroit Lions. They were "my" team as a kid in the '50s. I'd certainly heard of Lucky Thompson but don't have any albums with him as a leader. This site certainly does open new things o10. Also o10, so long as you stay with your own introduction to this wonderful site I don't see anything being deleted. In general, no Buds for me. I only drink craft beers. Now perhaps a new game. Post a cover to a well known number that you consider worthwhile. Not a cover of simply a pop or rock song, like "I Only Have Eyes . . .", but an established jazz song. For the most part I avoid covers, unless they bring a fun new perspective. I think George Russell does that here with one of Miles' best known. (Although I admit I don't enjoy this one as much as on the album I have, which is not on YouTube) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jrh2CPvwI8 |
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frog, I liked that "Spain". Now, hope this is not cheating at my own game, but this album is somewhat a favorite and includes only other artist's renditions of 16 of Monk’s songs, some by jazz musicians, others by rockers. I don’t know much about Joe Jackson but this one surprised me (and this Monk number is likely redone by more artists than any of his other tunes). Several other fun versions here too if this interests anyone else. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STY9CcTM0zc |
Thanks for the contributions to the "covers" game. I enjoyed them all. Also alex for the additional references to Jackson. Mention of Rahsaan reminds me of Yusef Lateef, another multi-instrumentalist, but only one at a time. ;^) Back in the '60s I caught him with Cannonball at a small club in Detroit, the Minor Key. A friend with me was on the way to the men's room at intermission and encountered Yusef in the hallway. My buddy had to back out as it was too narrow for them to pass. Yusef was a pretty big guy. This would have been close to that time - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcVIbNs-Y4AAlso agree with frog's implication, hope mary_jo wasn't run off. |
nsp, I'll see your "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" and raise you one. (Easily done since yours wouldn't play) I'd say this has more bluesy feel than jazz but I've enjoyed it for years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImxM4Rj5pOQWhy so many deletes today? I missed whatever was removed. Also it will be a few days before I can hear those Blue Notes. I'm feeling nervous about the condition of my stylus and need to change cartridges. I'm fighting a cold this week so want to wait until I'm clear eyed and have a steady hand to do that. |
mary_jo, if you didn't go back reading posts prior to the time you joined us then you missed by background with Satchmo. He was my dad's favorite musician so I heard lots of him while growing up. By my teenage years I was into R&R and failed to appreciate all that Armstrong meant. Even as I evolved into a jazz fan I considered his music to be too "old fashioned" to be worthwhile. It took me a few decades but eventually I realized what a huge talent he was and what he meant to the foundations of modern jazz. Let me offer one I consider to be a classic. I have it in a 78 album dad played. Teagarden was tops too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQm-2N-TW24 |
OK frog, confession time. They say it's good for the soul.
Regarding Coltrane, I love some of his stuff, particularly earlier recordings. But whenever he went into that "sheets of sound" I didn't follow. As the Emperor was alleged to say to Mozart, too many notes!
Does that disqualify me from being a jazz aficionado? ;^)
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frog, "Blue In Green"? I’ve been listening to that whole album since around 1960 and I’ve never tired one bit. Said another way, I love it.
I’m also a fan of TOP. Saw them live many years ago (their recent tour to San Diego was cancelled after a couple of members had an accident) and have a couple of their albums.
I’ll add on to that point with a disclosure about my collection. There are many artists I enjoy, but not enough to have more than one example of their music. That can satisfy any itch I have to hear them. A second group of artists produced enough variety so that I got maybe 2 to 4 of their albums. For me, variety is the key word -- enough difference in other releases to make more than one worthwhile for me. Then there are my favorites, with these I may have from 10 to more than 20 albums, simply because I enjoy their basic style (or evolution in style such as with Miles) so much that I can "dig" (!) into each one, even when the presentation may be similar to others.
Of course it’s possible some artists I like only released one or two albums so they don’t fit my general standards. Also, as I’ve learned and enjoyed from this site, there have been many artists/releases I was not previously exposed to, otherwise I might have added them years ago. Lucky Thompson is a perfect example.
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frog, that was OK. I could enjoy listening to it but wouldn't feel moved to buy the album so I could hear it on my system anytime I chose.
Also I realize perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the "sheets of sound". I remembered hearing that term referencing some of 'Trane's playing a long time ago and associate it with his performances with what sounds to me like simply flurries of notes. Those are far from favorites. But reading on Wikipedia I see that phrase was first applied in 1958. Many of my recordings (which I do enjoy) of/with him were produced after that. So it was a false benchmark.
My taste favors his blues and ballad work, such as "Ole'", "My Favorite Things", "Plays The Blues", "+ Johnny Hartman", "Ballads", "Monk & Coltrane at Carnegie Hall", etc.
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Coltrane - plus of course everything he did with Miles and other with Monk.
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Well frog, rok beat me to it but the answer seemed pretty obvious. Interesting about personal perspectives as always. KOB does convey a sense of mystery for me as well, but rather than melancholy I get a feeling of reflection. The word melancholy I relate to sadness while reflection is more of a sense of realization. Just the same, a very interesting point about Cannonball’s nature not fitting the mold feeling of the album, yet his contributions are (for me) indispensable. In all these years of listening I never ask myself about a change in Miles’ line up. ;^) Considering Cannonball’s personality, he always seemed to me to find the fun in whatever music he played. Even a song with dour implications in the title like "Sack O Woe" may still be bluesy but not down - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6rU-4za3EQ |
Most here may know that Cannonball was a HS teacher/band director prior to being recognized for his chops as a jazz musician. That may have had some influence for his habit of making introductions with more than simply the song title. Yes nsp, I've also read about "discussions" regarding credit for some of the songs between Miles and Evans. Interestingly Evans' album "Everybody Digs Bill Evans" included Miles' signature on the cover along with other musicians offering their approval, and it featured this classic by Evans which certainly seems "at home" with KOB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv2GgV34qIg |
alex, a bit of co-ink-a-dense? You posted Fuller and earlier today I happened upon a reference to this album by JJ and Kai. So I was thinking we needed some ’bone work here. As it happened, it was one of my jazz selections in that initial Columbia Record Club batch I mentioned earlier from so long ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MAx_907Qh4But just prior a few of you paid tribute to Getz, another of my favorites. So to close the circle here is a strong album with both Stan and JJ. Just check the line up, great energy and JJ is on fire on some cuts, but then they all are. I have this one too but with a different cover so didn’t recognize it until I read the title. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOIsqIRSvbM |
nsp, when I opened your link it identified Lateef on tenor sax on that album. Did you think it was someone else?
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Thanks m_j, after my last post offering Mulligan you can guess I loved that. That album is new to me, so again one of the benefits of this blog.
However I'm still trying to understand the relationship between Resurrection, bunnies, and decorated eggs! ;^)
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nsp, so have you heard ANY Monk recording where HE adapted to the style of others he played with? If it included Monk, then I think it was going to be Monk. ;^) The closest to that was possibly "Bags Groove"?
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rok, interesting that you posted Mendez. I had been thinking of his group and wondered how many consider their music to be jazz? I don't know since I'm not familiar with music of Brazil other than them and the Getz/Gilberto releases. Well, also a little of Gato Barbieri.
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This is the only Barbieri album I think I knew about. I didn't listen all the way through so not sure if what I remember hearing came from this? Certainly not anything that interests me today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8dPNHriiZAApparently it was a bit less than "a little". ;^) |
Allow me to toss Gilbert's "newbie" hat into the ring. He will be leading a sextet recreating all from KOB at a Symphony Hall in San Diego near the end of the month. Yes, I have tickets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7YfNVrg5QQ |
frog, and others in this discussion, what qualifies as a "newbie"? Some of this seems like anyone still alive! ;^)
One of those Lovano links was 23 years old! He was born in 1952!!
For me, and this is arbitrary, I'd say someone not yet past their 20s and who has not been on the national stage for more than about five years.
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pjw, I believe this was the second time you referenced current (newbie?) artists not selling many records. "As far as jazz artists post 1970 - Do they sell a lot or records? No."
Well, I've read that not even rock or pop artists make much from record (including CD) sales anymore. Some of that may be due to poor contracts, but I suspect most is because of the decline in software sales, meaning actual LPs and CDs. And apparently payment from downloads is miniscule. The decent money nowadays comes from touring. The whole scenario has changed so much in the last 10 to 20 years, let alone going back to 1970.
I do see a lot of interest by and for young (<30) jazz artists locally which pleases me. Whether any of them become influential, well, only time will tell.
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alex, I agree. We tend to love what we grew up with.
That rationale was identified for the resurgent interest in muscle cars back in the '80s, those who had been teenagers were 20 years older and making enough $ to afford the dreams of their youth.
My interest in jazz developed during the late '50s and '60s, so no surprise that is what I still love best. At the same time, I try to be open to what fallowed, right up to the present.
nsp, I agree about the young singer, I had the same reaction. |
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rok, you and I have agreed on enjoyment for several things posted here, so I'm a little surprised we have such divergent views now. Not that any of us should think like another.
But can you deny the impact of the blues in that development of what became jazz out of New Orleans? With that genetic connection I for one can't completely separate jazz from the blues. I hear some of both in Mose's performances and I enjoy his mellow blending of them.
That is not to say you should like him too, but to deny Allison's music represents either type is a mystery to me. Peace.
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nsp, can't say I would have identified him, but from the comments on that Allison link -- Wonderful alto from the mighty Arthur Blythe! rok, you and I may have different perspectives, but I'll just say that Mose was respected enough to have performed with some pretty well acclaimed jazz musicians, as well as having recorded for Prestige and Blue Note. With that, on to other things. nsp, thanks for the introduction to Nicki Parrott. Never heard of her, but as so many have said, discovering new artists/music is a wonderful part of this site. To offer some music, here's a mix of old and new(er). The Woody Herman Band for something older, doing a Chick Corea number for something newer (if no longer new today). Herman is one of a few big bands I truly enjoy, although I would have preferred an acoustic piano to the electric utilized here (another personal prejudice). ;^) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4LmJch7VYU |
Wow, what a flurry of activity. The best part is it brought out o-10, glad to see you here buddy. pjw, there was one important step for Miles you missed, "Birth of the Cool" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRjjqFogPGI&list=PLED9CF5CAEE7AD60A&index=2Miles seemed to be like a plant, he had to continue growing or else he felt he was dead. Actually the PBS Nature program last week on Butterflies suggested a better simile. He metamorphosed through multiple rebirths in style, just as pjw outlined. I remember attending a Miles concert in the mid-’70s. When we entered the auditorium the curtain was open and the stage was lined with speakers and electronics. When the musicians entered everyone "plugged in". Well, maybe not the drummer and percussionists, their instruments were already mic’ed. I can’t say now but it was likely 7 or 8 in the band, and they were loud! The concert was long enough to have an intermission and by the break at least half the audience walked out. That was not the Miles they knew -- and loved. Because he remains one of my favorite musicians (but yes, I don’t enjoy EVERYTHING he did) I’ve read a few books and interviews on and with him. My sense is he despised the fact that jazz musicians such as himself achieved limited popularity and financial reward compared to many rock musicians which he considered to be without much talent. So his restless musical mind drove him to explore new "electronic" expressions, but he also admittedly sought to reach a wider audience. From my reading that was a very conscious move. For the record, I enjoy "Bitches Brew", but a few albums later he lost me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbCt-iXIXlQThe exception was this single example, obviously a reversion to the more melodic Miles - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23VCyohcUxgApparently near the end he did revisit some of his "classic" numbers. Was that the nostalgia of aging? I don’t have any recordings from that period. Otherwise, can we simply admit we don’t all hold the same tastes and preferences and just post what we enjoy to share with others to judge for themselves? That is how I read o-10s concept in beginning this anyway. |
I'm not much into big bands either. But one I do enjoy is Basie. However I like this even better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4jFXwWJObsjcipale, if you are interested both o10 and I posted Crusaders and Jazz Crusaders links here recently. mary_jo, is Labor Day a holiday there? Doesn't happen until September here. |
nsp makes an important point. "it takes a different set of ears to absorb and appreciate a new direction. Some people try and they get it , others try and the music does not resonate with them." Music can change over time, sometimes as listeners we follow that, sometimes we don't. For an example I believe I mentioned this once before. When I first heard Ornette Coleman around 1960 I considered that pretty far out (non-melodic), not something I enjoyed at the time. But time passes, we learn and our perspective and tastes can change. I can't say exactly when but at some point his music was no longer off-putting and I "learned" to enjoy it. Today it may still not be the "norm", but it is no longer nearly so far out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNbD1JIH344 |
