*****
Best I can do. Just not that big a fan of the traditional jazz guitar, I guess. *****
Montgomery and Burrell are examples of 'The Traditional Jazz Guitar'.
You mentioned being put in a coma by certain music. That's not the first time certain music on this thread has been described that way. In fact quite a bit of it has been posted recently.
Welcome to Jazz-Jazz. As the good book tells us, No Blues, No Jazz. Know Blues, Know Jazz.
Check out "Smokin' At The Half Note" by Montgomery, with Wynton Kelly(piano), Paul Chambers(bass), and Jimmy Cobb(drums).
Cheers
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I’d be very curious what recent music suggestions you personally found sleep-inducing.*****
Anything from the third world with the word "trance" in the title. ahahahahaha
Anything that O-10 posts while tripping in unexplored parts of the world.
Anything played by players wearing t-shirts, or jeans or baseball caps, or all of the above.
Flamenco being passed off as Jazz.
Cheers
I'm a Southerner. I'm stuck in the past and can't get out.
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Hank Crawford:
The best dressed man in Jazz. From Memphis I think. Used to play with Ray. Very under recorded. One of the Jazz players I was exposed to in college. Good stuff.
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I always thought Smooth Jazz meant, no quarter, eighth, or sixteenth notes allowed.
As far-fetched as it sounds, I could be wrong.
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Just listened to my one and only Hank Crawford CD. A twofer. Two LPs on one CD. 'Mr Blues' and 'Mr Blues plays lady Soul'.
No need for wiki. Some of the tune list:
On a Clear Day
Route 66
Lonely Avenue
Soul Serenade
Ain't No Way
Baby I Love You
Going Down Slow
He plays a lot of popular music. But it's a lot more Jazzy, and enjoyable, than most of the recent posts. His tune selection, not his playing, reminds me of Houston Person or Bernard Purdie.
Cheers
Both of the LPs I have are on you-tube.
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O-10: Lord lord, my burden is great. There is only ONE blues and it was created in the Mississippi Delta. All others are bogus. Here is one of the all time great Blues players, from Mississippi of course, playing with one of the all time great Jazz players. They both seem right at home. They both seem in their element. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY4YB_6P4qkAnything Miles is quoted as saying must be taken in light of the fact that he did go off the deep-end eventually. I love him, but, Just saying. And we don't know the exact moment he went over. Pops, one of the founding Fathers, wrote many many tunes with the word 'Blues' in the title. I hope you are not about to argue with Pops? Stop trying to deny the place of Blues in Jazz. You have not been taking correspondence courses from that Julie Ard place have you? Cheers |
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Regarding the "bogus comment"? Do you mean that? White boys can’t play authentic blues? The remark might have been tongue in cheek but I suspect there’s something behind it.***** No need to suspect or wonder, if I had meant to say that, I would have said it in plain English. The answer is, i don't know. I have never heard one play authentic Blues. I bet Elvis could have, but he went in a different direction. So could many authentic / real Country Artists. *****
My thought is if you want to get all purist about it we’d be limited to some scratchy Library of Congress archival recordings from the early 1900s. Exaggerating to make a point. ***** Not at all. I have hundreds of Blues CDs and LPs. Only a handful are of the Library of Congress sort. Purchased for historical reasons. The Blues is not some musical form in a textbook, it is a product of, and portrayal of a way of life that's fading fast. I am somewhat at a disadvantage because I can't open The Frogman's posts. All three highly recommended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u011JBVZGSwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7eOIfFfyBwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0aIjyX7vwIIt's amazing what people can do if they leave their arrogance at the door. Cheers
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Just for fun. Our rants from Three years ago today.
frogman3,065 posts
10-15-2013 8:40amO-10, thanks for the Shadowfax link. I like it; it's not the kind of thing that I would go out of my way to listen to, but I like it. I am not a big fan of music with that "New Age/World Music" vibe; just a personal preference. It's a pretty melody and the playing is good; but..... the tune needs a good "bridge" to break up the sense of too much repetition. I can imagine, after the melody is repeated once, a variation on the melody in a double-time feel. Notice how the drums and bass play in a half-time feel throughout while the keyboards suggest a double-time feel. It would have been very effective if after the first repetition of the melody, all the instruments would break into a double-time feel playing the variation and then return to the original feel and melody to the end.
The tune made me think of this other tune which, for me, pushes similar buttons, but is "kicked up quite a few notches":
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sF9kW-8NPqs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DsF9kW-8NPqsrok2id3,557 posts10-15-2013 12:44pmOyez, Oyez!!
Wynton Marsalis Septet -- IN THIS HOUSE, ON THIS MORNING
Could have been named 'in church in Nawlins'. The music takes you through an entire service. Said 'home' to me.
Is it a stretch to say that Wynton is the Ellington of this era? I don't think so. His talent runs deeper than just Jazz. His can write music that 'depicts', in your mind, things, places and moods. Not just any player can do that.
You will love this Jazz CD. Esp, if you have ever set foot in a Southern Church.
What about my man, Wycliffe Gordon!! He is the trombone player, and he is great. I remember him from the Blues CD with Wynton & Clapton.
This is a 2 CD set. I listened to both in one sitting. For me that's saying a lot. I get bored easily with music that does not connect with me.
Guest appearance by the Gospel Great, Marion Williams.
If you like good Jazz music, you gotta have it. One of Wynton's best. He could be the most under-rated and under-appreciated Jazz player ever.
Give it a listen!
Cheerstubegroover1,983 posts10-15-2013 1:03pmJeez I love this thread! I am systematically going through the recommendations and links, great stuff, thanks guys!frogman3,065 posts10-15-2013 2:03pmTubegroover, in appreciation of your appreciation (from Tete Montoliu, one of my favorite piano players and one who seldom gets talked about):
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hfj8Ks9pU3s
and speaking of Cuban music:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TKB5Pv4SUu8orpheus10 OP3,539 posts10-15-2013 4:04pm
Another Mambo King!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El3lMf_Mfhc
Enjoy the music.rok2id3,557 posts10-15-2013 5:20pmWhere be The O-10??
cheersorpheus10 OP3,539 posts10-15-2013 7:44pm
Rok, as much as I like Dee Dee, I don't like the way she treats the standards; while I admire her ability to scat, she does it too much on the standards. Now here's a tune where it's very appropriate; as a matter of fact, I like everything she does on this CD. Here, she can do no wrong, and I'm sure Horace Silver would agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otcHh-90eo4
Here's another version of that same song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh7aZ_Q6ibw&list=RD02otcHh-90eo4
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, in regard to a life that's fading fast, it can not go too soon for me; the sooner the better.*****
You don't really mean that. You just have not thought about it the correct way.
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*****
Somehow I feel more ’offended’ when I hear ’bad’ music in form of ’blues’ than in other types. *****
I agree completely. Offended is the perfect word. It's like they are 'mocking' real blues players.
Entire post well stated!
Cheers
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*****
This immediately followed Orpheus’ Wiki post about your International Sweethearts of Rhythm). (Where do you find this stuff?!) *****
I found a signed photo of the band while going through family photos and news clippings. Google did the rest. I also knew of the Piney Wood School because a friend of the family, who became B.B. King's first wife, attended that school. Quite a famous school back in the day.
*****
.though I don’t know if I agree with all; e.g., Blues IS a musical form that can be found in a text book, but it’s way more than that...a legacy derived from a vanishing culture tied to important period of American history *****
That's what I said.
Cheers
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SRV:
Not close, No Cigar. His dress (too flashy) and demeanor are all wrong. Plays too loud, too fast and too many notes. In Blues, its the singing, not the guitar. Check out B.B. King.
Cheers
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Anyone listen to Shostakovich or Lecuona lately? It's the blues....in their respective cultures. *****
It should be. Shostakovich was nothing more that a Stalinist lackey who helped send many composers to the Gulag. He has good reason to have whatever passes for Russian Blues. ahhhahhh Never heard of lecuona.
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All your quotes:
West is a jerk, but there is nothing wrong with his statement.
Would you really expect B.B. to say anything negative about another player? esp on the record. We know the answer they will give to 99% of the questions, 99% of the time.
Parker and McGhee? OK, so what?
FYI, the great blues song writer, Willie Dixon, said Blues is the Truth. I think he nailed it.
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*****
call it the SRV Texas Blues. Will that work?*****
Alas, 'Texas Blues' is a legitimate branch of the blues. For some reason there are quite a few Blues players in Texas of his Ilk. Started with that 'Big Brother and the Holding Company' woman. Can't recall her name now.
But, what the hell. If Blind Lemon Jefferson does not complain, it's OK.
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When you get right down to it, what is the difference, at their core, between the feeling conveyed by the blues as performed by the great black blues artists and the feelings in any traditional ethnic music of any other culture which expresses similar feelings about that people's troubles and woes. *****
None. I don't get your point. We are talking about a particular ethnic music.
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I wonder (not!) what the reaction would be if someone were to suggest that black people can't play Classical music? *****
I have seen several Black folks playing classical music in symphony orchestras on TV and the internet. I only know of one Black person that performs Classical music as a soloist. I am excluding Opera.
So, why are there not more Black soloists? Could it be that playing off a score in a large group is different than putting your own take / feelings into well known pieces that will grab Classical audiences? Could it be that European folks have more of an affinity for the music? I defer to the Oracle of NYC.
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Rok - who is this oracle of NYC you've mentioned a couple of times?
Now Frogman hold up, calm down, control yourself, chill!!!! He's new, he didn't know what he was asking, he didn't mean no harm, show mercy!!! He won't make this mistake again, I swear!!
The Oracle of NYC?? That would be The Frogman. He is our goto guy for all things Jazz / music, save good taste.
Cheers
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Truth is, he wants to be considered the "Oracle Of Texas". *****
Being Chief of Jazz Police for central Texas is enough responsibility. I will answer the rest of your provocative misinformation after the gym.
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*****
Okay...the NYC oracle = Frogman. Personally, I’d be adding him for a consult on matters of taste too (just saying’).*****
Why am I not surprised? (Just Saying)
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he will post clips (for God knows how many times) of a third rate swing big band "(Sweethearts"), or ridiculous scat singing, *****
The Sweethearts were not third rate. Only a person with zero knowledge of music history would make a silly statement like that. They represented people that overcame almost impossible odds, to do something great. After all, this was 1930's Mississippi. This should be enough to call your position as Oracle into question.
'
Ridiculous Scat singing?? I have never thought of the Ferrell clip as scat singing. I realized she did it, but that was not what the clip is about. What it was about is passion. I know that is foreign in your type of Jazz, but quite common in other types.
Sometimes you Oracles can't hear the music for the critical analysis.
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Can knowing and concentrating of the technical, spoil the effect of the music? Absolutely.
When I was a kid, I loved nothing more than war movies or movies about the military. Never missed one.
Then I grew up and was drafted into the US Army. I spent 30 years on active duty.
Now I can't stand to sit through a war / military movie. I can't get into the plot or the acting because a so-called General Officer in the movie has hair like Elvis. Sgts talking trash to Officers. The courtroom scene in A FEW GOOD MEN. ALL BS. It don't work like that.
i understand Hollywood has to make it interesting, but I just know too much about the Army to watch it.
I never knew or noticed Ferrell was out of tune. I never would have guessed that a band with Wayne Shorter, Michel Petrucciani, and Stanley Clarke, would be just OK But apparently you did. Ruined it for you. Not for me.
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B.B. King and SRV:
This is an example of a phenomena that is played out across this country all the time. I will explain in a moment.
First ask yourself this question: Under what circumstances or scenario do you see B.B. King commenting on SRV?
1. Is he a big fan of SRV? Owns all his records. Praises him at every opportunity?
2. Did he see SRV perform Live, or on TV and then jumped up and called the media to tell them what a great blues player he is?
3. Was he asked by a member of the media, or interviewer, to comment on SRV?
Since you are an Oracle, you already know the answer. For the sake of any mere mortals that may be watching, the answer is #3.
Why would they do that you might ask. Well, it's done all the time, esp if it's an interracial thing.
IOW, The black person at the top of their profession, will be asked to comment on, up and coming, or lesser whites in the same profession.
Also, The white person at the top of their profession will be asked to comment on, up and coming, or lesser blacks in the same profession.
The comments will always be positive and encouraging.
It's a seal of approval type thing. It's a game that's played by the PR folks. If Mingus says you can play, YOU CAN PLAY!! That will be printed a billion times in countless articles.
I have other examples but this is too long.
Cheers
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*****
The issue of why there aren't more posters on this thread has come up recently and previously. It is not that there aren't more jazz fans out there; it is bs like this. *****
I keep hearing this from you. Over and over. I disappeared a while back, so all the people that I was keeping from posting, could feel free to post. I didn't notice a deluge.
If you notice, I thought it may have been my fault, if in fact this was an issue at all. I noticed that you have never even considered that YOU might be the problem. Hmmmm. I am sure the mental health folks have a name for this condition.
I think that we have the perfect number of posters. That number is however many WANT TO POST. There are many threads on this forum, and I only post on this one. I have not noticed anyone worried about getting me to post on their threads. People post where they desire to post. This is not a music forum. It's for gear heads.
FYI, it's not the BS, as you call it. i.e. (anytime someone has the audacity to disagree with you). I think it's more likely, the type of music and conversation style discussion that we do here.
In any event, I do not care one way or the other. People are always free to start their own thread. I promise I will not spoil their party by showing up. I will stay here, as long as the OP stays.
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'74 Miles Away'. Knew it sounded familiar. I have that CD. "The Best of Cannonball Adderley, The Capitol Years"
What I don't get is this, how can anyone like Adderley and The Jazz Pistols at the same time.
The Jazz Pistols, speaking of Tedious.
What would we do without the OP keeping everyone on track?
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FYI, Americans have the best teeth in the world. News reporters in Europe comment on this quite often, esp in the U.K.
Put that Kool Aid back in the fridge.
Cheers |
*****
Frogman, that was downright insensitive*****
Insensitive Hell!! That was downright Surly of him!! But, on second thought, if he had been guilty of Surliness conduct, surely it would have been pointed out to us. Wouldn't it?
But an outburst like this is indicative of a more serious matter. It could be that The Frogman is cracking under the pressure. After all, he is our Goto guy, our Guru, our Oracle and is also the self appointed, Grand Poobah of Jazz. That could be just too much for one mortal to handle.
You as OP, have the authority to lighten his load, by taking away some, or all of his titles. You should consider this.
When an Oracle trashes a historic group like the Sweethearts, while at the same time, singing the praises of noise makers like 'The Jazz Pistols', well, we have a problem right here in River City. It's as if Mr Data had made a mathematical mistake.
Just finished listening to the SACD version of LvB's 5th - Kleiber, on headphones. WOW!!! Had to get all that noise outta my system.
Cheers
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I want to know whether or not the fact that jazz musicians are seen so much in foreign countries is a culture factor, or an economic one;*****
It's an economic / business factor. The world is now one giant market. There are just as many Foreigners coming here to make money as are Americans going abroad.
That old paradigm of the black Jazz musician going to Europe because there was no racism and the Europeans 'appreciated' Jazz more, was never true. Just a convergence of circumstances in the world.
Some interesting facts: The new 2017 Ford Taurus has been on display in china for months. Designed for the Chinese market. No sign of it here yet. The new 2017 Buick LaCrosse was designed for the Chinese market and will be built in China. We get whatever the Chinese want now. Buick sells many, many more Cars in China, than the US.
So foreign is almost becoming a meaningless term.
You take your product to where the market for it is. The market for Jazz is all over the world, just a small market is every part of the world.
On the other hand, the good folks of Stuttgart invited a Jazz singer to a classical outing. Maybe they needed something to draw a crowd also. People like the new and different.
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Wait, let me get my popcorn!
Cheers |
Just a reminder, this is Jazz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MkUvZUTFUcAn entire group of favorite players. Maybe The Frogman could talk about Sonny Rollins and his place in Jazz. He seems to me, to have sort of stayed above the fray, as pertained to his relations with other players. Is this my imagination, or another of my amazing brilliant insights? There seems to be something not quite right with his story, but certainly not his playing. Cheers |
*****
Sometimes I wonder what % of the 1.3 million views are for the soap opera instead of for the music. *****
A large percent are people that look in every time there is a new post. However the soap opera effect is important, and probably the main attraction.
Cheers
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The under card shows promise.
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*****
Rok already has the popcorns and if others would not mind, we could always take the time out and head for 'wrong turn' in our little thread.******
Wow!! The Frogman has been called out.
Alex: I can't say Communism is the threat, because no country has ever tried it. I suggest you read Ayn Rand. I don't think she ever used the word 'Communist' or 'Communism' in her books. The word she used was 'Collectivism'. That's a word that should scare the hell outta anyone, even if they don't know the official definition of it.
The labor party (the left) in The United Kingdom is now led by a group of men who call themselves 'Trotskyites'.
I had read all of Ayn Rand's books before I knew she was a refugee from Stalin / USSR.
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The Bible says, there will always be poor people. Esp in St Louis.
Cheers |
*****
I am afraid, with good reason, of going back to a neighborhood I lived in for 30 years. When people are born into a world where selling dope is the only way to make a living, we're in trouble.*****
People from Mexico and other Central American countries go through danger and degradation to make it into this country. If they travel up through Mexico they are treated like crap by the Mexican police and government. They get caught by the U.S. Border patrol most times and are sent back, then they go through the whole thing again. Finally they make it across, and if the survive the Deserts of Arizona and New Mexico they have a good chance of making to family and friends in the USA.
If they make it, to say, Baltimore, on a Friday, they are on the JOB Monday morning.
If they are Korean or Chinese, they may clean the toilets at the local airport, but their children go to Harvard.
So stop boring everyone with that 'woe is us' BS. They sell drugs because it's easy to do. And going to jail is just like a family reunion.
The guy in the Philippines has the right idea.
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If that is Jazz, Grits ain't groceries, eggs ain't poultry and Mona Lisa was a man. But, to your credit, you did call it noise.
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Rachel Grimes:
They use this stuff to put you under before surgery. They start the 'music', then tell you to count down from 10 backwards. With this 'Jazz', I don't remember saying 'Nine'.
You people do realize Jazz came from the blues and was played in houses whore houses in New Orleans? You do know that?
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