*****
What is it about Europe that has made it so welcoming for American jazz musicians? *****
I would say France rather than Europe. The French never miss an opportunity to show the 'superiority' of their country, Language and culture. It still goes on today. They see them selves as a counter-weight to American influence and power in the world.
The expats: These were people like Monk, Bird, Richard Wright, James Balwin, Josephine Baker and other great musicians, writers and entertainers. What's not to like. Of course they were welcomed by the French elite, located mainly in Paris.
They did not welcome black people, they welcomed great artists who happened to be black, something new and different, and very few in number.
What the expats should have known was that if the entire US black population had moved to France, the reception would have been very different, as it is today, after North Africa showed up in France.
BTW, the black female Jazz trumpet player, Valaida Snow happened to be touring in Denmark when Hitler declared war on the USA. She was promptly arrested and thrown in prison as an enemy alien. Just saying. She was later part of a prisoner exchange.
Cheers
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*****
what's your take on the link that Ghosthouse provided; do you think things have gotten better for jazz musicians, and if so, how?*****
I think the article is accurate, but nothing I didn't already know. Thinking Europe, of all places, was racism free, show a lack of knowledge of history.
I also think if shows a weakness of character to crave the approval of white people to this degree. They were not shunned in the American Black community, so why did they run to Paris. Just saying. Ellington and Armstrong were not expats.
America is, and always has been the most racist free country on the planet. And this includes the era during slavery. To understand that, you have to be able to think, and be aware of attitudes and conditions around the world.
Have things gotten better for Jazz players? Hard to say, since Jazz and Jazz players ain't what they used to be. By the time social attitudes and technology changed to benefit Jazz and all other music, the music went to hell.
Cheers
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*****
Rok, that must be some good herb you been smoking; pass the pipe.*****
It's a herb that is virtually unknown in this country. It's called World History 101.
Cheers |
I will no longer respond to post that are factually incorrect. Takes too much time. And I did say you have to be able to think, to understand what I said.
Cheers |
The Constitution believes in States Rights. All powers not given to the Federal Government belong to the several States.
The democratic party was destroyed in the South by LBJ's civil rights programs. BTW, passed thru the congress by Republicans. He said it would happen, and he did it anyway. He should be a hero to black America, but he is not. Guess they can't get pass that drawl. Instead they go ga-ga over Kennedy and Clinton who never did anything for civil rights.
Union members no longer matter. They just got too greedy. The only union Reagan destroyed, was the air traffic controllers union. I thought it was GREAT!!!
*****
Since he opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it didn't matter that he opposed unions; as long as he was for "States Rights", which was a euphemism for lynching blacks with impunity. *****
Does not matter what he opposed in 1964. He was not president or a member of the Federal government. The states right comment is just stupid.
You should lay off that democratic, left wing, looney-tune, kool aid. The threat to this country is not coming from the Right. Look at Europe.
Btw, years later when the Police Chief in Meridian, Mississippi was a black man, one of the first people he hired as deputy, was one the men that was involved in, and stood trial for the murders in Philadelphia, Mississippi. Of course he was proven guilty beyond a doubt by the FBI evidence, but found not guilty by the good folks of Mississippi. Go figure.
Cheers
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Bass Clarinet:
The first clip was interesting and informative. The one from Korea was OK also. You know I liked the Mingus the best. A real rhythm section. I still think Dolphy would have been even better on Sax although he played great on the bass clarinet.
It still sounds like an interloper in a Jazz group.
Cheers
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These are the ones I have and will post:
The legendary Okeh & Epic Recordings
(recorded in the early 1950's)
The Essence part 1
Chicago Revisited
But Not for Me
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Today's Listen: that's right, don't like it, too bad. Ahmad Jamal -- THE LEGENDARY OKEH & EPIC RECORDINGS I think Alex already mentioned this CD. I am sure all you Jamal fans have it, otherwise you would not call yourselves fans. Nice notes by Randy Weston. He points out some of the great pianist to come out of Pittsburgh. Erroll Garner, Mary Lou Williams and Jamal. In the pictures of Jamal in the booklet, he looks like a teenager, Which I guess he was not far from being in the 50's. The best place to start with any artist, is in the beginning. This be it. A few from the CD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttBJKrIcq2M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LM_ntfxkDE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrTx5evEHM4Ain't got it, git it. Cheers |
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*****
I'm going to ""review records in my collection"", and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado,*****
From the OPs initial post on Aficionados.
Next point, it depends on how you listen to and buy music. I don't do downloads or computer file music, and I don't listen to you-tube clips as a source, except for the ones posted here.
I want to hear from a person who owns the LP/CD and can speak to the entire package. All the tracks, the notes / booklet, the recording quality and the presence of "filler" if any. The history / details. You-tube is good to post 'samples' of the CD. The "100 best from the 1950's" is a case in point.
Lastly, having to stick to one artist is like being in music school. Hmmmmmmmm. The variety of folks just posting the stuff they listened to recently is the best way to keep things interesting. Suppose we all hated Jamal??
Cheers
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*****
He's out of this country more than he's in it; that let's you know who does, and who does not appreciate jazz; Ahmad Jamal for sure.*****
Lord, Lord, my burden is great. I can assure you there are Japanese Jazz players that spend most of their time playing in the USA and Europe. People go where they will be seen as something new and exciting / exotic.
*****
There are many reasons why this thread has lasted so long: one of them is because I have posted some of the best jazz many have ever heard; *****
OP, your modesty is surpassed only by the modesty of The Frogman. Standby to hear from Learsfool at any minute.
One of the problems with this thread is that, too many posts are directed at, and posted for the benefit of the 'viewers' , and not directed at their fellow posters.
Cheers
Jamal is good, but he ain't no Silver. Like Acman3, I have thousands of CDs / LPs, and exactly 4 by Jamal. The Frogman's First Law still holds.
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*****
I was just thinking, and I want an honest answer to this question; have you ever heard any better jazz in your life, than you have since I started this thread?*****
I take this to mean, "what music have you purchased as a result of that music being posted and reviewed on this thread"?
Artist I have purchased based on recommendations on this thread: Harold Land, Woody Shaw, Trio Tres Bien and Anita O'Day.
I doubt if any people buy music based on this thread.
I define "New Music" as music I had not heard before, played by an artist I was not previously aware of.
So the answer to your question is, Yes.
Cheers
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Learsfool:
My comment was meant in the same sense as to why cameras were blocked in Courtrooms and The Congress for many decades. The camera changes how people act / Speak.
Cheers |
Jamal: Poinciana in Poznan 1998:
It was my understanding that most artist get tired of, and resent playing their biggest hits over and over, due to public demand. They want to move on and showcase their talents. Not so with Jamal and 'Poinciana'. He seems to relish playing it where ever he goes.
Besides, the date at The Pershing is the definitive version. Spoiled only an indifferent audience.
Cheers
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The Jamal CD 'Nature The Essence Part 3' was recorded in 1997/98.
I suggest you trust the guys that review Jazz for a living. Find one with similar taste as your own and buy what they say is 'must have'. At least that will give you a place to look on you-tube.
Scott Yanow is my review guru. Just make sure you understand that they will praise certain recordings in all Jazz styles. So, when he says a certain CD by Ornette Coleman is a 'must have', I just smile and turn the page.
A band has to be pretty awful not to sound good 'live'. In many cases it's not the music, but the atmosphere / women, that cloud the memories. They don't sound as good as you remember, because they probably never did.
Cheers
Listening to McCoy Tyner tonight. SAMA LAYUCA and 4 X 4.
Cheers |
Interesting enough, this morning I wanted to post a Charles Lloyd album, but it was not on youtube.
Cheers |
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Every since I opened the posts of Abbey Lincoln from The Frogman, You-tube seems to think my computer is a mobile device. I cannot open/play anything posted here. Every time I try to open any link, or post, the you-tube address has " M. " before the word you-tube, I assume this "M." stands for Mobile. This is a recent development. Anyone know how to get rid of this?
Cheers and thanks.
BTW, I removed the M. from the last post I sent to see if that would work. It didn't. |
I reset IE
Deleted temporary files
Deleted and installed AOL a few times
Deleted cookies
Which worked? I have not a clue, but I suspect AOL was the culprit, along with The Frogman. If a person posts using a mobile device, maybe it would be a good ideal to state that in the post.
I am now back in business.
Cheers. Thanks for the info O-10. |
Notice the (m.) in The Frogman's link. Beware!
Cheers |
*****
On the other hand, too much mention already of my "Can you dance to it?". That was a tongue in cheek effort to dumb things down and put another light on the music. Is it "real"...is it "visceral"? *****
The "can you dance to it" statement was made by none other than Louis Armstrong. Armstrong talking about Jazz is like Einstein talking about physics You pay attention.
He wasn't dumbing Jazz down, he was defining it.
Cheers |
I can't find any place online that says Armstrong said, "if you can't dance to it, it ain't Jazz." But I have read several times that he said it. He did say, Bebop was Chinese Jazz. hahahahahahhahah This was before we were plagued with Political correctness.
Cheers |
*****
This is super hip Island music; it's what the people prefer, not what's presented to the tourists.*****
And you know this how?
This is boring third world crap. And EVERYTHING they do, is for the tourist trade. How do you think they eat.
Both clips sounded like the same tune.
Neither tune is Jazz.
Cheers
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When Pops said "Bebop is Chinese Jazz, I think he had Bird and Dizzy in mind. hahahahahhah
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There is no relationship between 'knowledge' and 'taste'. Every piece of NOISE ever written, was written and played by people who knew more about music than anyone on this thread, save the oracle of NYC.
Music is neither good or bad, until it reaches the ear/brain system. The decision is made at that time.
Billy Ocean -- Great stuff at the right time and place. Not for serious listening, but perfect for the disco dance floor. Brings back the memories. But given the visuals, who would think to critique the music?
Also we should consider WHY music was written / created. Some change is gradual and logical, and some is deliberate, for various reasons. For instance, why, did Miles start playing crap? I consider that when I judge music.
Other than all these errors, I agree with you all.
Cheers
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*****
Billy Ocean: Yikes! Probably my least favorite style of music. She does look good, 'though.*****
What music? Was someone playing music?
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*****
when there are more less fortunate than at any time in my life.*****
Not true. There is less poverty in the world today, than anytime in history.
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Joan Baez: The first LP I ever purchased. Used to listen to it on an Army industrial record player through B-17 headphones in the Post Library. I bought it to hear this song. 1967. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMalmwupji8Amazingly the first poster on the you-tube comments section says this was his first LP also. Second LP was Bob Dylan. A lifetime ago. Cheers |
For everyone's information:
I am not ignoring anyone's posts, it's just that I cannot open the posts of The Frogman, and YOUTUBE on Alex's posts is YOUTU.BE, which makes me cautious about his.
Cheers |
Alex:
Why are your post 'youtu.be' instead of 'youtube' ?
Cheers |
Does not change this fact!
FYI, Americans have the best teeth in the world. News reporters in Europe comment on this quite often, esp in the U.K.
Cheers |
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*****
I smell a "conspiracy" in regard to that harassment after she married a young husband.*****
Chill O-10, Chill. No conspiracy, just different societal standards. Contrast that time period to now, when a Man can marry his own daughter and it's considered OK.
Ain't progress grand?
Cheers
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*****
Anybody see anything out of the ordinary?*****
Sax player, front row far left. Sort of reminded me of Lester Young playing while asleep! hahahahah Is it a real person?
Cheers |
*****
I was thinking of entertainers other than Ms. Snow who were affected because they didn't follow the script.*****
I remember when I was a child, hearing my Mom and her sisters talk about Cab Calloway getting into trouble, during their young years, for playing the National Anthem in a jazzy style. Caused a National uproar.
Of course today, the Anthem is disrespected by ill-educated clowns who get millions for playing a child's game. They say, "we be oppressed". And of course everyone 'respects' their actions.
Things ain't what they used to be. This is the result of decades of left- wing influence in the American education system.
Cheers
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Joseph de Maistre: "Every country has the government it deserves
Pretty much sums it up.
Cheers |
*****
I'm so glad you didn't come up with any of the answers I expected you to come up with.*****
I did come up with those answers, I just didn't post them. We all know the truth about everything, some of us just can't face the truth.
Damn, I sound like Jack.
Btw, black folks are probably the most racist group in this country. I mean this in the sense that, most of them see EVERYTHING through the prism of race. It blinds them to so much.
Also, there are several instances of uneducated and poor working class people, rising to ultimate power in several countries. Some examples:
Soviet Russia -- 20-30 million dead
Communist China -- untold millions dead
Nazi Germany -- responsible for approx 50 million dead
North Korea -- what can one say
Khmer Rouge in Cambodia -- they committed genocide against their own people. Killed anyone that wore eyeglasses. Thought that made them an intellectual.
Thank God for the Elites.
Cheers
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Duke Ellington(Paul Gonsalves)-Crescendo+Diminuendo In Blue
Great, but nothing tops the live performance at New Port.
Cheers |
*****
the only place communism exists is in Cuba, and the poor people are doing better in Cuba than they are here.*****
Wow! Well, that explains the constant flow of ships loaded with poor Americans heading for Cuba on a daily basis. I wondered why they were leaving, now I know.
Thanks O-10. You are such a wealth of misinformation, oooops, errrrrrrrr I mean, information.
See you in Havana.
Cheersd
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Today's Listen:
Duke Ellington -- THE GREAT DUKE ELLINGTON VOCALISTS
Very nice CD. Could not find it on you-tube. Perfect Jazz for a Fall Sunday Afternoon. If you can find a clip, check it out.
Cheers |
Austin feeding the poor.
Austin is not only the political Capital of Texas, it is also the liberal do-gooder Capital of Texas. If there were no poor there, they would import them, so they could be seen on TV feeding them. Doing something meaningful for the working poor?? No way. That place is run by the rich elites, for the rich elites.
If you give ANYTHING away for free, someone will show up to receive it.
If you go to certain Walmart stores in Dallas, there will a line of men at the end of the check stations offering to charge your purchases on their cards. They charge your food purchases to their welfare card, and you give them the same amount in cash. Done right out in the open. The clerks go along with it. Has happened to me several times. Even happens in front of DPD officers.
Was with a good friend once in Mississippi, in his car. He parked in a super market parking lot, waited a few minutes, a woman came out, walked over to the car, he gave her 60 dollars in cash, she gave him her welfare card. He went to buy more than 60 dollars worth of stuff at a store, and she went to get her nails done, I guess. Or get her fix. Had a baby with her.
Your Federal and State tax dollars in action.
I could go on and on but, we are back to music. I just can't let all that liberal clap trap go unchallenged.
Cheers
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Great Jazz Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slpDoJ_H0kKenneth Clarke is an extremely prominent figure in British Conservative politics. He has served in every Conservative Government since Margaret Thatcher. This current Government will be his last Parliament. He just wrote and published his memoir. It's titled: KIND OF BLUE. Yes, THAT, Kind of Blue. Great Jazz Aficionado. He is the namesake of the great Jazz drummer Ken Clarke. A real feel good story for true Jazz Lovers. Which may even include a few of you guys. 19 dollars hardcover on Amazon. Cheers
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*****
I will take a leave of this thread now, will be back in a few weeks. Clearly, whatever people currently post here is not really worth my attention.*****
*****
Let us try to refrain from discussing complicated matters here belonging somewhere else.*****
Who was that Masked Man?!?!
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I never thought I would see the day that some self-important 'Audiophile' could come on 'Jazz for Aficionados', insult everyone and then waltz away unscathed. Although, he did warn us he would be back. Reminded me of General MacArthur after he left the Philippines and arrived is Australia. " I Shall Return ". aahaaahha
The old Ellington tune: "Aficionados Ain't What They Used To Be", comes to mind.
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