"There's no future without the past and anybody who doesn't really understand where jazz has come from has no right to try to direct where it's going". -- Julian "cannonball" Adderley
I guess that quote from Adderley sums up my problem with "new" Jazz.
The tune you posted, 'sneaky Pete', was well done, BUT, it lacked something. I don't know what, but I know when it's missing.
Why were there only three guys on the cover, when an entire big band played the music?
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Some random thoughts*****
Incoherent, would be more to the point. And your ramblings do not rise to the level of 'thoughts'.
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You will be more than delighted when you get this CD.*****
I put it in my cart today. Had a lot of her on LP. She was an important artist in her day.
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Jesse Cook:
Very nice clip. I was listening to Nana Vasconcelos today, but didn't think it was worth posting.
Why isn't Cook wearing shoes?
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O-10:
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Our minds are computers that contain a record of everything we have experienced in our entire life. How those computers respond to music depends on that composite record. If the music does nothing to elicit a pleasurable response, it's thumbs down on the music; consequently, our take on the music is determined by us, and not the music.*****
Great Post. Another way of saying, "The Great Unwashed decides".
Getting the mechanics, or nuts and bolts correct, does not necessarily result in good music.
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Sometimes neutral is all that the art aspires to be.******
Then, what would be the point of 'neutral' art? Wrong again!!
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The OP is firing for effect!!
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Rok, I want you to check this and check it thoroughly; me, Alex, Jazz, and even Frogman posted music that's only different in degrees, and the music I posted is "bland and tasteless". Get back to me on that.*****
I discovered years ago that there are people with 'special' status on this forum. They are considered the 'final authority 'in their area of 'expertise', and any dissent from their pronouncements will not be tolerated.
When these gurus are challenged, their minions get nervous. When the established order is threatened, they will attack anyone in order to support, defend and maintain the status quo.
You have noticed that we, will NEVER be supported in ANY disagreement with The Frogman. In some cases, The Frogman himself will be more likely to reach an agreement or understanding of our point of view, than will the minions. They will be more upset with us, than will be The Frogman. That's just the way it is.
The humorous thing is that, when The Frogman speaks of music in a technical sense, saying things that only a pro would know and understand, all these minions weigh-in as if they always knew and understood what he is saying, and are absolutely astonished that you and I do not. hahahaahahaha
My course of action: Only talk to The Frogman and the other regular contributors. You can easily tell who the Jazz lovers are. Ignore the drive-by posters.
The Frogman is, and has been, a vital asset to this thread. We are lucky to have him. Feel free to discuss Jazz with him, and ignore the mean spirited interlopers.
Both of you need the cut back on the personal stuff. Save all the criticism for the music, not the person.
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"The Frogman"; who, btw, you mention by name(?) SIX times in one of your most recent posts.........SIX TIMES!...........doesn't that say something to you?...........think!...*****
It says, YOU and YOUR minions were the subject of the post.
Vital Asset ????
As you said, I'm a very Magnanimous guy.
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There is no way anyone will believe what the South Side of Chicago was like when I lived there*****
Actually, I can readily believe it. There were many places like that back in the day. "Progress" and it's resulting consequences wiped them out.
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Frogman sure has a lot of Minion's!******
That's the understatement of the year!!
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In regard to "individuality"; that is something musicians "discover" while in the process of becoming a good musician.*****
Exactly!! While in the case of 'fusion', that was a deliberate move, to cash in on the money generated by Rock. It was false 'evolution'.
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Sonny Stitt:
If Bird's influence was as pervasive as everyone says it was, it would have been impossible not to be influenced by him, even if it came through third parties.
I have this CD. I always thought Oscar should have added drums and a couple of horns to his group. Esp since he seemed to go out of his way to play with every horn player in Jazz.
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To my way of thinking this points to the "inevitability" of the evolution of the music and how it’s like a force set in motion that can’t be stopped; it will always keep evolving whether we like it or not.*****
The questions become, is the evolution an improvement? Is it artistically superior to what it is supposed to have evolved from? Is it a small incremental step in evolution, or a drastic mutation into something entirely different? Is it an logical and easily recognizable upward continuation or a lateral evolutionary branch that resulted in a dead end?
Evolution is a response to enviroment. Guys trying to be different on purpose does not count as natrual
The unwashed need answers.
Let's all remember, the Ford Edsel evolved from something.
Nice Jazz post.
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The Frogman:
The players you mentioned in your post was like comparing Apples to Apples, and Oranges to Oranges. Let's get those guys in the blue jeans and tank tops in here. That's what we are talking about. But of course, you know that.
A good place to start would be 'fusion' or 'Free' or 'modern' or 'avant-garde'. Those are the labels the noise makers usually hide behind.
Henderson and young both played Jazz. So did Bird and Coltrane. Your post was true, but didn't make the comparisons we are talking about.
The unwashed continue their quest for the truth.
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O-10:
Great Posts. Right on point.
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High Altitude has been known to affect Brain function.
Being a magnanimous guy, I'll leave it at that.
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Carmen McRae: Nice clip. Although she is very good, she was never one of my favorites. Guess I was ruined by Ella and Billie. Her tunes too New Yorkish?? I have her singing Monk. I give her credit for having the nerve to try that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHyEZ4lQygwI was listening to Betty Carter yesterday. I'm finding it very hard to really get into her music. Maybe it'll get better with time. Thank God we still have Dee Dee. Cheers |
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How many albums have you heard by Betty Carter? Why don't you see what Dee Dee has to say about Betty Carter? Do You get my drift?*****
I own 7 CDs by Betty Carter. Four with her solo, one with Ray Charles, One with Carmen McRae and one with Ray Bryant. The one with Ray Charles was very good.
Unless you think I should buy anything she has made in order to come to a conclusion.
I know what Dee Dee said about her. I have not read anything, but I have never known one artist to be critical of another, save Wynton saying, that the s**t Miles was playing was not Jazz, and that he dressed and looked like a buffoon.
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McCoy Tyner:
I don't think it's been posted before. Have never heard it before. This guy has produced so much great stuff, it's hard to have it all. One of my favorite players. This one goes in my cart tonight.
Thanks
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Have you noticed how many 'alternate takes' there are on the Wardell Gray CDs. One has 9 tracks, but only three different tunes. Sucks.
I just replaced the books and classical CDs in my Amazon cart, with Stuff by Tyner. Wish I could listen to my LPs. :(
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Charlie Parker:
Unissued / unheard Bird, is for Bird Fanatics or historians only. Not only are there the dreaded 'alternate takes', we also have 'false starts' and 'incomplete' tracks. Track #26 is a false start and incomplete. WTF!
Interesting article, but read the track listing on Amazon before buying.
I smell a money grab!!
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Bryan Ferry:
Very, very good. Made my morning. Watched it three times.
The music was just so-so.
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Today's Listen: Duke Ellington / Mahalia Jackson -- BLACK, BROWN AND BEIGE Part lV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0PlS8nuceAFrom the Notes: Duke called her frequently to persuade her to sing for the first time with a Jazz orchestra. His message was usually, "don't worry about it," Mahalia's usual reply was "all right, Duke, if you say so." Brought a smile to my face. Cheers |
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Bass players, like drummers, get into trouble when they go solo. The instruments are just too limited. The Gershwin tune was wonderful. They complimented each other brilliantly. SOLAR would have been better without the bass solo.
Brubeck's TAKE FIVE is a rare exception, but there, the Bass and piano kept playing during Morello's solo.
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There is 'acting', and there is 'imitation'.
Imitation -- The assumption of behavior observed in other individuals.
Some of these movies are just people imitating the physical traits, mannerisms and characteristics of famous people. The story lines are not that compelling. 'Ray' heads that list. When the actors are chosen based on having a similar physical appearance to the person being depicted, that's a red flag.
'Amadeus' was probably 99% BS, but a great and enjoyable movie. With music like that, what else could it be.
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He 'impersonated' Ray. That's the word I was searching for.
*****
Acting IS imitation.*****
The Frogman is wrong once again.
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Jim Henry:
I used to be able to dance like that. Seems as if your tailor outfitted the entire cast. Foxes Galore!!
That was back when Jazz was Jazz.
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I am glad to help you out Rok; I believe in charity 😌*****
I always said you were a magnanimous guy.
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I suggest you pick out a jazz move for us to look at and review;*****
I have no use for Jazz movies. Just because a person is a brilliant musician, does not mean their lives are so interesting that they deserve a movie.
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Nina Simone:
Sang a few 'protest' songs. Does not rise to to the level of being "deeply involved in the civil rights movement". Most of the people who fought that fight are largely unknown. Lot of them from Mississippi.
Her movie is a joke. Not her, just the movie. Zoe Saldana got the role playing Nina. Her selection is being criticized because she does not look like Nina. IOW, she is too attractive. Lord help us.
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*****(
As the decider in chief of this thread*****
Chief Decider, OP, Imperial Grand Poobah of Jazz, would-be Jazz Connoisseur, You should have a full plate.
Jamie Foxx receiving an Oscar for 'RAY' was an outrage. Great actors are those that through their portrayals, create a compelling persona and story. Even if the story is total BS.
Examples:
De Niro -- Raging Bull
Brando -- The Godfather
George C. Scott -- Patton
Peter O'Toole -- Laurence of Arabia
There are many others.
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but all of us have seen Ray Charles; therefore we all know how he looked, as well as his mannerisms. I rest my case. ***** You are making my case, which I now rest. Jamie Foxx should be so good as this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR1_hGkIU2cCheers |
Patton: I have seen him speak on film from the war. Polar opposites from George C. Scott. Not handsome, high pitched squeaky voice, weak chin.
If they had picked an actor with the looks, voice and mannerisms of the real Patton, the movie would have been a flop, if it was ever made at all.
The point is, these guys are so great they create these characters that are larger than life. And they are believable.
BTW, when talking about The Godfather movies with a friend, he mentioned that De Niro was awesome. I replied, De Niro was not in The Godfather. When he pointed out the scenes with De Niro, I was stunned. (when he gutted the Don in Italy, avenging his Mother) That's acting. he does that a lot.
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Badal Roy:
Talk about noise!!! Quite possibly, the most useless, irritating clip, ever posted.
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why so many American musicians took on Muslim sur-names???*****
To 'mess with' white folks. Along about now, given what's going on in the world, I'm sure they regret it. Never jump on a fad bandwagon too soon.
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We all KNOW it was a CONSPIRACY, because the RESEARCH shows that Dolphy was the first human to die of diabetic coma. That proves it. Those damn Germans. They have a long history of trying to do-in black jazz players.
You guys keep up the good work exposing these evil doers.
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