Today's Listen (and disinfectant) So much strange stuff floating around this thread, I felt it was necessary to remind ourselves of what this is supposed to be all about. Hence this! My kind of Fusion. Notice how he blends the elements of Jazz with other elements of Jazz to produce Jazz-Jazz. Charles Mingus -- BLUES AND ROOTS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyOlc8BaR0AIt might sound 'funny' at first, sort of like the air in the National Parks smells 'funny' to city folks. Cheers |
*****
How, exactly, is it being hurt by the appropriation of the name? Who or what suffers by this?*****
All Jazz players and fans, past, present and future. It degrades the music. I just don't understand why we need hybrid or hyphenated music.
You wouldn't mention Einstein's name in the same sentence with some quack from the middle ages who thought he could turn lead into Gold.
As Wynton Marsalis said, "Miles used to play Jazz". That nails it.
Cheers
|
*****
Not good jazz as far as level of improvisation and interplay between the players? Seriously?*****
Interplay and improvisation can exist in non-Jazz music. Seriously.
I think I posted a Classical piece a while back with interplay between the various instruments.
Cheers |
Words matter. I( think a pro from NYC said that on this very thread.
Cheers |
*****
Now that the interest is below 0, I think we should let Rok take us into whatever direction he chooses.*****
Back to the future!!! Jelly Roll here we come!!!
Cheers |
Free Jazz "Keith Johnson of AllMusic describes a "Modern Creative" genre, in which "musicians may incorporate free playing into structured modes -- or play just about anything." Hell, I can do that. Anyone can do that. But then, that's the purpose of this so-called music. Soviet Free Jazz: Any music that could gain the approval of the commissars and bureaucrats in the Kremlin, did not have anything we would recognize as 'emotionally intense'. But, the Soviet Union was the perfect place for 'Free Jazz' to strive. They are both soulless and meaningless. Cheers |
The Frogman:
BBC News just reported that many items from the Duke Ellington estate are being auctioned off in NYC. Includes Clothing and Music scores. His piano is expected to go for a cool million. Better hurry!
Cheers |
Larry Young:
I have the CD UNITY. I never thought of it as Fusion. Just goes to show that maybe I don't know fusion when i hear it. :)
Cheers |
*****
I don't know what this gal is singing, but I like it.*****
Don't feel bad, she probably doesn't know either.
*****
Rok, who does this remind you of? *****
Bits of a lot of people, but I am too senile to remember who. Nice rap.
I listened to all the posted 'tunes' from everyone. I have decided that,
As Chief of Unwashed Jazz Police, I hereby place all of you under arrest for impersonating Jazz Aficionados.
I am reminded of a scene from the remake of 'Tinker, Tailor, Solider, Spy'. The Soviets capture this British Spy and 'interrogate' him by strapping him in a chair and placing headphones on his head. No beatings, no pulling fingernails, no truth serum, no threats.
When they took the phones off, he told them everything he even thought he knew.
According to the CIA, The KGB did buy a lot of Fusion. Just saying.
Cheers
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy31fe40Rg4&list=RDuy31fe40Rg4#t=370Listen to all the tracks. This is great stuff. Great video and audio. Check Gene Harris at 0:50 on "Things Ain't What They Used To BE". He sits like a choir boy, hands on knees while Morrison is soloing, then he nods his head and then breaks into this big smile. I love that stuff. Cheers |
O-10:
Today I Received the Donald Byrd replacement set. much better packing this time. Also the Grant Green / Sonny Clark set, Marvis Staples' "We'll Never Turn Back" that was posted by The Frogman, and Ellington's "Latin America Suite". Will report later.
Cheers |
Shadowfax:
Liked them both. I think I had some of this on LP back in the day. I used to give all the LPs I was not too fond of to friends when I PCS'd.
The images were not even necessary, the music stood on its own merit.
And you accuse me of living in the past! I had all but forgotten these guys.
Cheers |
*****
Rok, I want the low down on whatever you've finished listening to.*****
I played Mavis Staples first. It's hard to listen to Jazz while watching the game, thought this one would be easier.
One of the few CDs I have purchased in recent memory that was totally unsatisfactory. I hate it. This woman needs to enter the 21st century. She is still whining about picking cotton. Good grief. Not that she has ever been within 100 miles of a cotton field.
"Down in Mississippi where I was born" a line from the opening track. But, wiki says she was born in Chicago. She is self absorbed. It's all about her. She sings a lot of traditional songs, but she sings them as if they are HER life story. Not the story of a people.
Hard to get into songs that insinuate that Katrina was the fault of white people. I guess primitive uneducated people think white folks have unlimited power. They control nature. I think that's the preserve of The Good Lord. They should be praying The Lord does not send Katrina 2.0 to finish them off.
Well recorded, but the effort was wasted of this claptrap. I recommend this strictly for Kool-Aid drinkers.
Cheers
Sorry for the rant, but I take all things Mississippi personally.
BTW, were any white folks affected by Katrina? I know, Bay St Louis, Mississippi, where Katrina made landfall was completely destroyed. Nothing left. Nothing. No one seems to be aware of that. Guess they didn't whine loud enough.
|
*****
But, geez, how many times does a person need to hear those same tunes. What are these guys saying that hasn't been said a thousand times before?
*****
Strange comments from a Classical player. Remember it the next time you play Mozart, or Beethoven, or Bach, or............ well you get the drift.
Cheers |
I never knew the political chain of RESPONSIBILITY ran directly from the 9th ward to the white House.
Now, we all know the local politicians were stupid, criminal and totally incompetent. But, the locals knew that when they voted them in office. They were good at being liberal pawns and good for blasting conservatives on TV, and fooling the poor folks in New Orleans into thinking they were working for them, but totally useless in a crisis.
Where were the cops and the firemen and the local emergency personnel. Right, It was every man for himself. It was, and is, a very CORRUPT city.
Who told all these people to go to the Super-dome? What provisions were made there? Why weren't they evacuated before the storm hit? Where was the Governor and the Louisiana National Guard? Natural disasters are right up their alley.
Katrina didn't just fall out of the sky one clear and beautiful day. Everyone had plenty of warning. Every forecast listed New Orleans as a possible target. What did the local 'leaders' do to prepare? They put ten school buses on 'standby'!!!! You may now laugh or cry.
Some real facts:
New Orleans is still 10 feet below sea level.
The Gulf Of Mexico is still there
Hurricanes still form every year
Katrina made landfall in Mississippi as a cat 3 storm, it just slapped New Orleans on the way to Mississippi.
If a cat 5 storm hits New Orleans head on, there will be no more New Orleans. When that happens, all the locals can do is hope a Republican is in the White House, so they will have someone to blame.
BTW, It seems as if Local politics have taken a new direction since the people realized how they were played. Good For Them.
Cheers
|
Jeff Beck:
Great ROCK guitarist. The best ever.
Cheers |
*****
why did Marsalis slam Miles and Pat? Over what subject matter?****
What is, and what is not, Jazz. Said Pat and Miles were not playing Jazz. Did allow that Miles USED to play Jazz. Whew, thank God for that, seeing as how I have a billion CDs by Miles.
Cheers |
*****
not trying to be a provocateur *****
Don't worry. This thread is lousy with those.
*****
But is he "keeper of the flame" as it were? *****
Yes. For all practical purposes, he is.
*****
I'd be real interested knowing what criteria he's using to arrive at those judgements...which is just another way of asking, has he got a "definition" of jazz? *****
The criteria is drawn from his background. He Comes from a very distinguished and established musical family, in the birth place of jazz, New Orleans. Knows the history of the music, from it's roots and beginnings. Is a virtuoso on his instrument. Holds the most important position in the world of Jazz today, leader at JALC. Is the media's go to guy for all things Jazz. Very articulate. Very personable. Educated. Can talk about, explain, and teach the young about the music.
As far as slamming Miles: Coming out of New Orleans, with his pedigree, he was not / is not, intimidated by Miles or anyone else.
He is so important, we have to think in terms of who will be his successor.
We don't think that way about any other player.
Knows how to dress. Looks, talks and acts like a Jazz player.
He is Da man!!
Cheers
|
*****
Orpheus and Frogman agree on something*****
Birds of a feather. What else is new?
Cheers |
I suspect that In the not too distant future, I will click on the latest you-tube from JALC, and there, in the Tenor Sax chair, will sit, The Frogman. At that point all the boos, hisses and cries of outrage directed at Wynton will cease. Wynton, at that point, will be The Frogman's boy.
Stay tuned.
Cheers |
Today's Listen: Duke Ellington -- LATIN AMERICAN SUITE If, like me, you thought this would be The Duke's band with 30 guys on percussion instruments and 40 'Latin' trumpets, you would be wrong. Written soon after his Band toured South and Central America. It was originally going to be called "Mexicanticipacion". Mercifully, the name was changed to "Latin American Suite". This music shows why this man was such a special composer. He heard the sounds and rhythms of South America and expressed them in such a delicate and sophisticated way. With a lesser person, this could have been Santamaria on steroids. This tune was recorded in 1970. So there was Jazz being made and played during the 70's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W1vR3D6S4w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD5PVfMyvUs Cheers |
*****
If there was an award for the most "stereotypical" jazz of the year, Wynton Marsalis would win it every year.*****
Well, adding your opinion to that of The Frogman's, doubles the total number of Wynton Bashers in the Jazz world.
Cheers |
If Wynton was from St Louis and was a drug addict, caused by BN of course, he would be O-10's boy also. Esp if he was cheated by BN and had great record sales in Japan.
Cheers |
The surgeon that performed the first, or one of the first heart transplants in this country, had this music piped into the operating room as he performed the transplant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv35zFXXLGMCheers |
You people will have a lot to answer for one day. When, or if, you reach the pearly gates, you better hope they aren't manned by Pops, The Duke, or people of their ilk. If so, you are all in deep doo-doo.
Cheers |
People who want to play Jazz, should play Jazz instruments. Picture the NYPO with all the violins replaced by guys on electric guitars, wearing tank tops with rings in their noses and baseball caps on backwards. I don't think saying "We be advancing the art" will sway anyone.
Cheers
|
Wynton:
When Marsalis arrived on the scene, the epicenter of Jazz was in NYC. Full of hard, bitter, angry, drug addicted Jazz players. They played music that reflected this condition. Forgotten was the warning from Pops that,"If you can't dance to it, it ain't Jazz". They were all advancing the art. They advanced the art so far that they left the paying public behind.
Enter the Jazz savior coming up from the birth place of Jazz. Virtuoso, clean cut, drug free, and very articulate. He called them out. Showed them they were washed up, and had lost their way. Saved Jazz. That's why folks like Miles resented him.
Jesus cleansed the Temple, and you see what they did to him. So Wynton has survived relatively unscathed.
Cheers
|
|
He played Moon River on the Sonny Clark set. That's what we are talking about.
I do not have anything by Benny Green.
Cheers |
Read what I said again OP. You said it was not as good as you remembered them being. I was just suggesting that maybe it was because of the large number of standards. Broadway type stuff.
I used the CD by Wes as a contrast and example of what the Green set could have used more of. Swinging, Blues, Cookin' or whatever.
That's all.
Cheers |
Reminds me of the tune "Theme for the Eulipions" by Roland Kirk.
Cheers |
Watching the French news yesterday. They were interviewing the American Movie Director William Friedkin at the Cannes Film Festival.
He directed 'The French Connection' and 'The Exorcist' among others.
When asked which movie did he think was the best of all time, he answered, without hesitation, "Citizen Kane". Made in 1941.
Jazz fans should ponder that. So much for 'advancing the Art'.
Cheers |
Stravinsky's Soldier's Tale? |
Didn't we all used to play poker on the Star ship USS Enterprise?
Cheers |
Well, I guess so. Did she make Miles go Sinbad on us? Don't take any more than a chicken leg on the front porch.
I did think of Dr John and Marie Laveau.
The voice does sound like the Kirk tune.
Cheers |
O-10:
Since the music seems to elicit such vivid mental images in your mind. I would think that Ellington would be your favorite artist.
Received Ellington's "New Orleans Suite" today. Another home run.
Cheers |
I think we all know where this is going, so in the interest of saving time and typing:, allow me:
O-10's response to Learsfool: How do you know how much Jazz I have heard. Not only do I live and breath and listen to Jazz, I eat it also. So there!!
The Frogman: O-10, no one is questing how much Jazz you have devoured in your life time.
O-10: Frogman, you are the most unique person I have ever met.
The Frogman: Why thank you O-10:
O-10: but you don't have any idea of what happened in Seattle.
The Frogman: HUH??
O-10: Just answer the question Frogman. Answer the question.
The Frogman: what question?
O-10: Don't play that game with me. I have spent almost 2 years in South Korea. I don't play that Jive!
The Frogman: WTF are you talking about?
O-10: I am talking about the fact that I have heard 2.3 trillion bars of Jazz played. How many have you heard? Answer the question Frogman!
At this point Learsfool will intervene once again.
Learsfool: The Frogman is just too modest. Not only does Frogman Play, Live, Breath, make Jazz, HE INVENTED JAZZ!! And I don't wanna hear any of that Jelly Roll Crap!!
The Frogman: (modestly) Thanks you Learsfool.
At this point O-10 will attempt to defuse the situation by posting a clip of a Group of one legged guys from South Sudan playing Sudanese-funk Fusion by banging on their wooden legs.
Lord help us.
Cheers
|
I don't get it. But, I realize it could be me, so I read a lot of the reviews and comments on you-tube and Amazon.
"Corea is a god".
"This is the best record ever recorded" Yikes!!!
I'm thinking, what planet are these people from. I'm thinking, how can people get all that from this music, when I get nothing. Then I ran across a review on Amazon that provided a little insight.
paraphrasing:
It depends to a large degree on your age. He said during the formative years when he became interested in music, Fusion was Jazz. He was not aware of anything else. There was Rock, and there was Jazz(fusion). Fusion being a more 'sophisticated' form of Rock?? Bebop was no where to be heard.
Several people said after being 'raised' on Fusion, they later discovered Bebop, and never looked back. As if Fusion prepared their ear for real Jazz.
I say, whatever! I know the first music I ever heard with which I associated the word 'Jazz' was probably Duke Ellington, Count Basie maybe Cab Calloway.. That was the type of music my family listened to. We also listened to Church music, Broadway tunes, Blues, R&B and early R&R..
Which means, Rock was noise to my ear from day one. Still is mostly. And that includes this so-called Fusion. Everyone can't like everything, although I wish I could.
My son loves Rock. That was the music he heard during his formative years. If I had known that, I would have locked him in my stereo room with Monk and Mingus going 24/7. Hindsight.
Back in the day, one professional Jazz critic once said, "Young people think any instrumental music is Jazz". He may have been on to something.
Romantic Warrior: For what it is, not extremely irritating. There are a few measures here and there where you could almost think it is Jazz.
Cheers
|
O-10:
I just got off the phone with Learsfool, and he said, "The Frogman is just tooooo modest. Not only did The Frogman find coal and invent the train, he also discovered Africa"!!!
Mercy Lord.
Cheers |
Good Grief!! They're everywhere, they're everywhere!!
Cheers |
O-10:
I was amazed at how enthusiastic The Frogman was about Fusion. Could it be that he was a closet Fusioner all this time? Hmmmmmm.
One never knows............ Do one?
Cheers |
Excellent post O-10. And you are correct comparing it to bell bottoms. Both are equally relevant today.
I said about three years ago that the 70's was a terrible time for music. Music from that era just never gave me good vibes. I am sure there are exceptions, but overall, not the best era for music.
Cheers |
*****
the Chick Corea music most of the music is "through-composed" (Wiki, look it up). That is what I meant when I said that the music should be approached like a symphony. Much of what you hear in that music is not improvised; it is part of the composition and within the framework of that composition there is room for improvised solos. In that way, it is like Duke’s jazz suites with "movements" within which and between which the soloists improvise. The soloists don’t follow each other in the more typical and simpler way, so there would be no opportunity for the soloists to even do what you point to. Apparently you thought that what was part of the composition was soloing. Now, the REALLY important stuff:*****
Explaining something does not make it more palatable. Music is about hearing and personal taste. Emotional reactions. Any music sounds good to at least some people. If only the people that play it.
Ellington's name in a paragraph on Fusion??? How dare you.
Cheers
|
Now we await the deluge of "why do you bother' or "they are so arrogant" or "call the administrators" or well, you get the drift.
Cheers |
*****
decided I never wanted to be without it and bought two albums.*****
I did the same thing when I first heard the Les McCann and Eddie Harris LP, "Swiss Movement". I know the feeling.
Cheers |
Don Cherry:
All three were great. Loved the Trumpet playing on 'Brown Rice'. A guy on stage talking about Monk. If he did that today, I wonder if anyone would even know of Monk.
Nice clips.
Cheers |
The Fusion Lovers Doth Express Their Love Too Much, methinks.
Cheers |
*****
One of the many aspects I like about fusion, (and a lot of jazz for that matter) is that the song "develops." *****
Interesting. I always felt just the opposite about Fusion. Just a collection of unrelated and unconnected sounds. If it had a beginning, middle and ending, with all the players providing mutual support, if might be considered Jazz. As it is, O-10 nailed it. The title of the tunes and the album covers tell you all you need to know.
The Frogman pointed out on one of the JALC clips, how one soloist picked up and continued the theme by repeating the last musical phrase the previous soloist played. I didn't hear anything approaching that on the Chick Corea record. Incoherent.
Cheers |
*****
Sadly, not much new. Wholesale panning of an entire genre that, obviously, many on his thread find value in; and, instead of simply expressing dislike it is put down in insulting ways. Nice.*****
Well the sign over the door does say 'Jazz for Aficionados'. If Jazz can be panned, surely non-Jazz stands a good chance of being Panned. AND, unlike some people, my opinion is just that, MY opinion. No more or less valid than any other. But differences in opinion does make for good conversation.
And btw, I have insulted no one. But maybe some folks consider differences as insulting.
Cheers |
