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Brown and Strings:
I always cringe when I see "with strings" in a title. This cut proves that Brownie could overcome and rise to any occasion.
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Gonsalves at Newport:
On the original recording Paul sounds very distance from the band. I read where he blew into the 'wrong' mic, or the recording engineer made a mistake during the performance.
The record company asked Ellington to do it again for the LP, and The Duke declined, saying he would not ask Gonsalves to do what he did again on demand.
As a great Musician himself, he recognized that that was a special moment that could never be done again.
Later, they did 'fix' the recording through the magic of electronic and computer manipulation. I have both CDs and the LP.
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To whom it may concern:
If this was a thread about basketball, and there was a real current NBA player participating in the discussions, why would you say his input was not welcomed?
Would not his take and opinion of other NBA players, and all things basketball, be more valid than the fans, who can't play, and just watch on TV?
Let's stick with the music, before this goes too far.
Cheers
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What we have here is a case of bebop overload. Let's chill. I double dog dare anyone, to say these guys aren't great. You can hear and see this in person in the NYC subway system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWHAOPGOsYoCheers |
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James Blood Ulmer:
I liked that. I hope that's not a sign of early onset. I always thought he was an avant-garde player.
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On this thread we have criticized or trashed people like, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Wynton Marsalis, Phil Woods, and have from time to time, spoken at least a few discouraging words about anyone who is anyone. Even Pops has not been spared.
My question is, why has criticism of one tune, by Andre Previn of all people,. caused such an uproar? Why did you pick this moment, and this player, to burn all your bridges with the contributors and supporters of this thread? Why are you falling on your sword over this guy?
I don't get it. Can someone help me out? Explain please? If I had said it was elevator music, would we be going through all this?
What is this really all about? You need to give yourself an honest answer to that question.
Keep in mind, on Audiogon, we are a minority, within a minority, within a minority. Can't really afford to run interested folks off.
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Maybe you post too much 'personal' stuff. You can't expect people on this thread / forum to relate to things and / or people with whom you have a personal relationship or attachment.
As Acman3 said, he likes stuff that some people don't even consider music, elevator or otherwise.
Be secure in your own musical values and taste.
Lastly, it's like not someone called the music of Silver or Mingus music elevator fare. It's only Previn. I could talk about Jazz for a hundred years and never mention the guy.
BTW, if you ride on enough elevators, I bet you will sooner or later hear the music of Ellington. Just a little context.
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(jazzcourier)
You see OP. When you carry on like you have been, we begin to attract drive-by 'audiophiles'. I think he just flew in from the, "the direction of current flow in hi-fi fuses" thread. Seems as if he didn't survive the discussion there unscathed.
His post was as nonsensical and incoherent as some of the stuff posted here lately.
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Michael Brecker: A virtuoso who can play! I really enjoy listening to his music. Solos are so coherent. Today's Listen: Horace Silver & The Silver Brass Ensemble -- IT'S GOT TO BE FUNKY (1993) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0noGBH68qkMThe most interesting tune was a vocal version of 'song for my father, vocals by Andy Bey. Not on you-tube. This is the tune with the Brass ensemble minus Bey. Poor sound quality. Not sure the ensemble adds anything. Blue Mitchell and et al were just fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV3j9mjsfs8Cheers |
The Brecker Brothers:
Virtuosic Funk ? Loved it. And they have managed to avoid the dreaded Wrath of Wynton.
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Is that Nica's Bentley??
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Who is this person??
Can we still talk about the origins of black music and slavery?
The best thing to do, is to ignore his ridiculous post.
Cheers
btw, To whom does he think I should 'apologize'? Him?? |
O-10 & The Frogman:
Thanks for the intervention.
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I had no idea people still went to St Louis. It's glory days faded right after the wagon trains to the West stopped.
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*****
Rok, on to the next "jazz artist" and forget about it.*****
It's already forgotten.
Cheers
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Today's Listen: Marcus Roberts -- ALONE WITH THREE GIANTS Roberts plays solo piano. The Giants are Jelly Roll Morton, Ellington and Monk. Jelly probably would have named it, THE Giant, plus Ellington and Monk. Are the tunes are just wonderful. Even the pianos sound exceptional. They are listed in the notes. Both Steinway Concert Grands and Young Chang 52" Uprights were used. Why was this done? Only The Frogman knows for sure. One tune from each composer: Black and Tan Fantasy - Ellington https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCcuwHd9S2Y The Crave - Morton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL3a12m_U7M In Walked Bud - Monk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r15Ri5nSA6k Excellent Disc. Ain't got it git it. Which tune was played on the upright? No peeping! The winner gets the loan of all my Bey Sister CDs. Cheers |
Mari Boine:
Compelling. Could not turn away. What does it have to do with Native American music, I'm not sure. Great pictures also.
Some of the folks that commented said the music was from the Sami people who live in Lapland. I think that's up above the Artic circle. Reindeer folks.
I have seen several performances live, by Indians in New Mexico. Didn't sound anything like this. Guys get in a small circle with drums, and the beat never changes. Very simple stuff. The dancing is the thing.
Now, if some of our more political correct folks want to demonstrate their moral superiority by doing the outrage thing, this would be the time. A Norwegian, singing 'indian' music, in Norway, with a full band backing. Not an Indian in sight.
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Can't we all just get along?
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Mari Boine:
I had the whole thing wrong. I know that's hard to believe, but it's true. She is a member of the SAMI people. Her music is in support of ALL 'oppressed minorities' worldwide. And I guess there are slim pickings in Norway, hence the Native American thingy.
Nice info and clips. You learn something everyday. Or I should say, I learn something everyday. :) Whew, that was close.
Cheers |
*****
The Chang upright is played on Monk’s "In Walked Bud".******
AAUGH!!!!!! Curses, foiled again!! Can no one defeat The Frogman!?!?
I would have thought it would have been the Jelly Roll for the reasons you stated. I will have to listen again for the out of tune Concert Grand on 'The Crave'.
Thanks for the insight.
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I must have missed a few posts. Who is mattmiller and mitchmiller?
Is that THE Mitch Miller on a Bird set??? The sing-a-long king?
What's next, Lawrence Welk meets Monk?
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The Frogman:
Thanks for the info on LvB's 7th clip.
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Also, why are they standing? |
The Frogman: The last time I posted this music, played by the French at the Proms, it was panned by The Frogman. Horns out of tune and the conductor was an idiot etc.... This performance was given 5 stars for recording and performance in the latest issue of BBC Music magazine. Since there is a guy wearing headphones in the group, I assume this is the actual performance that was recorded and reviewed in the Magazine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVAB2z1RPu4Since I am prone to buy 5 star ratings, I thought I would get your thoughts. Cheers |
If you are speaking of Jazz musicians that end up broke and dead at 27, it's their fault.
Harsh but true: "A Fool and his Money are soon parted".
Truer words have never been spoken.
As I have said before, some folks just think other people should look out for their best interest. What a strange idea.
I think the drug thingy is true for this reason: Consider pro athletes. Some make more money in a year than most working class folks make in their lives. Within 5 years of their playing days, they are all broke. Seek out, and watch the episode of the ESPN program 30/30 titled "Broke". You won't know whether to laugh or cry. I laughed.
Lay off that purple stuff.
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The Frogman / Learsfool:
Thanks for the insight into the music business and the review / comments on the Handel piece. I did not notice the absence of a conductor. I was so focused on the players.
I also have the John Gardiner CD. I should branch out, and try more Classical Composers.. I tend to buy the best performances of the stuff with which I am familiar. I have noticed that the names of the Composers being reviewed are starting to be more and more unfamiliar. Back in the day, all the reviews seemed to be of the usual suspects.
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I don't even pretend to understand the music business, but I always thought the amount of money an artist made was at least in part based on record sales.
If the LP is not released, how does the artist get paid or make money? Any player with an IQ over 6 would be aware that music recordings sell forever. A player in 1965 would know that records cut decades before where still being sold.
So what did he think happened to the stuff that was not released? Why didn't the contract demand release? What didn't he retain the rights to all unreleased sessions? What was he paid for recording sessions that were not released? Had they heard of Lawyers?
Why would they think the guys at the studio would put their, the player's, interest before their own?
Do I think all this OK? No. It's just human nature. Today there was a crisis here in my home. 'Our' cat that has set up homestead in our back yard, cleaned out his bowl of food, and then walked right out into the yard and killed a bird at the bird bath. My wife wants to kill the cat. i asked, why? She was just doing what cats do. They kill things. That's what they do. If she was bigger, she would kill us.
Jazz players make music, and business men make money. That's what they do. The more the businessmen makes, the less the player makes.
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Jim Pepper:
Very nice. I liked it. A little repetitious, but a nice tune, and the sax playing was good.
*****
I would hope no Indians of any persuasion were harmed by my error, which once I noticed was to late to edit.*****
Too late. I'm outraged.
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Grant Green:
I have these:
Sunday Mornin'
Solid
Matador
Idle Moments
Feelin' The Spirit
What others do you recommend?
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Szabo:
Was introduced to his music while in Germany. His were some of the first Jazz LPs I purchased. Right along with Quincy and Wes. I Have a ton of his stuff on LP. Hard to find now on CD, except used. I do have on CD, 'The Sorcerer' and '1969'.
He definitely had a unique sound. Maybe so unique it all has a sameness to it. Brings back great times. Sansui, Dual and JBL.
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*****
Fact 1. Blue Note had so many "junky musicians" that Horace Silver quit working at Blue Note.
Now it's time for a question; why did Blue Note have so many junky musicians?*****
I have read that about Silver, so I assume it's true.
Why so many Junkies at Blue Note? Jazz was lousy with Junkies at one time. It was part of the life style. Blue Note was the most prominent Jazz label, so, where else would you expect to find them? At Deutsche Grammophon?
Some folks who are real Geniuses in one endeavor, can be total jerks, even child-like, in other areas. Even Coltrane was affected by that stuff.
A better question would be, "why didn't more players follow the lead of Horace Silver". Wno, btw, played for many years. Long after the weak minded had passed from this earth.
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O-10:
Exactly what point are you trying to make referenced Grant Green?
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*****
Fact 2. Grant Greens best records were not released in his life time. While that has been asserted by others; you're an "aficionado", meaning if you were to evaluate the records, you would know whether or not they were inferior. If you don't feel you are capable of that, then you're on the wrong thread.*****
I have never read anything from the folks at Blue Note stating why the sessions were not released. I do know that all artist record stuff that is delayed or even never released. We are talking about this now in regards to Prince, and I think he controlled his own stuff. Ran his own studio.
The Beatles had stuff that was not released. Some movies are made and never released. Some sub par music and movies are released and they often kill the careers of many budding actors and artists.
When you consider how these people were paid. I don't get any sense of what could have been the motivation for Blue Note to hold back the release. These were not Rock recordings. There wasn't that much money at stake. It's not like famous painters whose work increases in value after they die. If you own a Monet, it is unique, the only one he painted. The probably made thousand of copies of 'Matador' in one day. And, they have not sold them all yet.
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Just because he was from St Louis and had a rough life does not make his music any more than what it is.
'Live at the Lighthouse' commits the cardinal sin or being BORING. You know they are going to play before they play it. I could not stay focused long enough to listen to it.
BTW, I see where the AMG liked it. Just proves there is no accounting for taste.
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*****
Who said he had a rough life? ******
You did. He died young, strung out on drugs and broke. Ooops, almost forgot, he was cheated and made to take drugs by the folks at Blue Note.
*****
What's a rough life got to do with his music? *****
On this thread, everything. You don't examine his music so much as feel sorry for him.
*****
What the holy smoly does Prince have to do with Grant Green, Since you threw in The Beatles, why quit there, lets throw in the Pope.*****
My way of saying, that if GAME CHANGERS, like Prince, The Beatles and probably every artist that has ever recorded, including Elvis, Chuck Berry and Miles, can have unreleased material, what is the big deal about a run of the mill R&G guitar player from St Louis having the same?
It and he are not that significant. He did not change the direction of Jazz. He was not Charles Christian. Not Miles. Not even Chuck Berry. If he had not lived, how would Jazz be different today? It wouldn't!
Made a few nice albums, but a lot of 'lame' LPs in the 70's. Not my words, professional reviewers say this.
Get over it. He was not that important. He should thank Blue Note.
That's what I meant to say, or words to that effect.
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Is this Jazz for aficionados, or The Grant Green fan club??
Just asking.
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*****
Frogman Junior,*****
LOL!! The OP Strikes Back.
Tadpoleman?
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If you had not made this such a circus, we would have discussed Grant Green's music, posted a few you tubes and moved on, all the while thinking he was a very nice player who made some good records.
Instead, i'm beginning to really dislike the guy. Now that I know of his drug addiction, I see him in an all together different light. Drug use means he was not very smart. Don't have much use for people that squander talent like he did.
Reminds me of a current situation in sports. A football player from Mississippi was projected to be drafted in the top Five of the NFL draft. Before the draft, a video of the player smoking dope appears on the internet. Instead of top five, he gets drafted 13th. The people in the know, say this means he lost Eight million dollars. A poor guy who probably never had two dimes to rub together, just threw 8 million out the window. Laugh or cry. Your choice
Now he is trying to find out who posted the video. Not, kicking his own ass for smoking, esp on camera, but looking for someone else to blame for his stupidity.
Typical of weak minded stupid people. It's never their fault. It's the CIA, Blue Note, KGB, the Trilateral Commission even, BUT NEVER them.
So, instead of thinking he was right up there with Wes and Benson, I see him as just another junkie.
He got off his sick bed and went to NYC to record, not to pay his rent, not because he loved music, but because he needed a fix. Pathetic.
Seems as if Prince might be dead for the same reason.
You should be running low on Kool Aid by now.
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