Jazz for aficionados


Jazz for aficionados

I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.

Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.

The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".

"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.

While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.

Enjoy the music.
orpheus10

Showing 50 responses by alexatpos

Two albums of Paco De Lucia that everyone should have. (ok, there are at least 15 more, but for beginners, if there are any here...)
Of course, the ones with trio are also 'must have', with MCLaughlin and Di Meola and with Larry Coriell
Saw him live, with sextet and flamenco dancers, pity that he did not recorded more alums in that form (3?)

Sextet, from 1981 'Solo Quiero Caminar'
https://youtu.be/V3RW1XF1NP4

'Almoraima' from 1976.
https://youtu.be/lY2_eAZo4Lk

Great Music, hope you will like it....





Does the great movie makes the soundtrack sound good or is it a coincidence that masters were together on work?
Some themes, from movies that are worth mentioning...

Anton Karas, from 'Third Man'...
https://youtu.be/r8jN1treRKQ

Mikis Theodorakis from 'Zorba the Greek'
https://youtu.be/n_BHJNAJk8Q
He also made music for 'Serpico' with Pacino, but that score did not stick...

Dimitri Tiomkin, from 'High Noon', sung by Frankie Lane
https://youtu.be/EOg4x_rMqfY
Could list lots more themes with Frankie Lane...

One more 'recent', from 1971. Great movie, by the way.
Roy Budd, from 'Get Carter'
https://youtu.be/jhisIT_CuQ8

John Carpenter made music for movies he directed. I like them. Could we find here elements for discussion, 'old' or 'real' music vs 'new' ?
'Assault on Precinct 13'...https://youtu.be/PoplzqcUa8Q

Walter Hill's classic, The Warriors', music made by Barry De Vorzon
Must admit that I am not familiar with any other themes that he may done, but this one is great. Movie too, of course
https://youtu.be/9p7EE1F80fU

Frogman, all great movies, have not seen Red Pony. Regarding music, interesting, but could not whistle(remeber) any but 'Bridge on river Kwai' and of course 'Godfather'. Since this is a jazz forum, here is another album with adaptations of music from a movie

'Some like it hot' by Barney Kessel, from 1959. Great line up, fine music, regardless of a film, few songs...

https://youtu.be/5Cn0m2ItBns

https://youtu.be/yK09EKQDlWo


Surprised that Frogman did not chose something from this movie, after all its caled 'A King In the New York'...
 Again,Chaplin, I realy like this movie.
 First link is a speech,I have a slight idea who here might respond on it...  The second link is more about the music.
The movie can be seen on ytube.



https://youtu.be/WDfSS1ZqDQA

https://youtu.be/gUoopyebfTI
Frogman, a good one, joke, I mean. Yes, by all means, Chaplin is great, often his later work is overlooked, he was not at all ’just a funny guy’...

Acman, some good movies you have posted, some of the french ones are my all time favourits...
If by any chance you have not seen any of these, I strongly recommend them...

J.P. Melville’s ’Samourai’ with A.Delon...some original score, and remix included...
https://youtu.be/KR-nveJx-LU

Again, J.P. Melville’s ’Le Cercle Rouge’ with A. Delon
some nice music and scenes

https://youtu.be/8zR7S-NPzNQ

Interesting to see is that Melville’s movies were in a way homage to american authors and films of crime and noir, but later new american authors choose to make films in a homage to Melville...

Frogman, I agree, we should incorporate 'time out' tool....







Another great movie with very recognisible theme.
 'Das Boot' made by W.Petersen from 1981,music by Klaus Doldinger (Passport)

https://youtu.be/aKXi7f7AFmU

https://youtu.be/iaJR9cG2_AM live
I dont mind anybody posting anything about jazz,but perhaps we could stick to the albums that we consider realy worth posting? Anyway, will try to mention those ones that I consider good,or better, but are overlooked for some reason or anoher
Speaking of Jamal, I would say that one should start looking at his work that was made couples years before, than mentioned in previous posts.
Here is the mentioned 'Poinciana' but with his 'first' drumless trio, from 1955.

https://youtu.be/ZxZQIgp6iKI

Again, an album that must not be overlooked.
'Chamber music of new jazz' from 1955.

https://youtu.be/E_PbXidJ6WM

By the way, if somebody is interested in guitar player, its Ray Crawford, he also played with organist J.Smith, posted befor his only album he made as leader. Hope nobody will mind that I am using this opportunity and doing it again...
'Smooth Groove' from 1961.

https://youtu.be/fka0tp0WGPs
Such a great line up, but label went broke just before the album was launched....

Orpheus, the first album that I have posted is compilation of his recordings made for Okeh and Epic labels, from 1951, 1952. and 1955.
Also, there are songs from 'The piano scenes of A.J' and 'The A.J.Trio'.
I would recommend finding all selections in that trio format, but that could prove to be demanding, so that album is quite enough for majority of listeners, along with second posted, 'Chamber music of new jazz'.
As early from 1956, he started recording with his 'second' trio, drums included. I like those early recordings more...

Do not want to jump from one theme to another, so you can think of this as time out...
Here’s a historic TV broadcast of the founding fathers of bebop, Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie, playing together in 1952. It’s one of only two known sound films of Parker playing–and the only one of him playing live, rather than synching to a prerecorded track.

http://www.openculture.com/2013/03/charlie_parker_plays_with_dizzy_gillespie.html
I must admit that, like Rok, post only albums that I have.
Of course that using ytube helps a lot, to hear albums that I might like and buy, but there is one more tool that I can recommend.
In my case, its a jazz encyclopedia and there are few good editions.
There are lot of informations on internet, but if you already do not know the name of artist or performer, its much more difficult to randomly find his work
Rok, if you like 'Legendary' recordings, try the other one that I have posted,
'New chamber music', same line up, simmilar feeling
Acman and Orpheus, so far I have always tried to point out at some of the artists and their work that were, imho, unjustly overlooked.
I sincerely hope that some of you guys liked what I’ve posted and perhaps bought some music of ’unknown’ artist that I ’ve mentioned.
Always avoided writing about well known names or albums, because I believe if one is realy interested, its quite easy to find lots of info or music online.
Mentioning some of the greats (for ’beginners’) and digging some of the hidden ones for the rest, is something that I concentrate on.
Somehow ’reviewing’ albums that I dont have feels like ’cheating’, and any album that I realy like, I try to buy anyway.
Often, I am looking for a right moment to post something, because the discssions are not always following the clear path.
Finally, if somebody has any suggestions how to make this forum better, please share.



Orpheus, I am not sure have we understood each other.
Of course that I am using ytube as well, to hear music of interest.
If I like it, always try to buy it, on cd and than I may choose to write about it.
So, I 'review' only albums that I already have.
Wanted to say that if we are all aware that for examp. Jamal is inspiring artists and if we all have posted favorite albums, or albums that we have or think as good I am sure that any of us will be capable of finding more of his music.
Of course that you or anybody else may post more of his interesting findings anytime.
This is reminiscence of the late Bobby Hutcherson by his longtime friend and musical collaborator drummer Joe Chambers. Some interesting things...

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/california-sunshine-remembering-bobby-hutcherson-1941-2016/?utm_...


Same problem. Cant open anything on ytube,or post from it, must open on google chrom to do it. Will ask somebody smart to check it for me.
Orpheus, if you dont have any Mal Waldron’s albums as a leader, I am quite sure I can recommend this one.Great playing of Jackie McLean too.

Album ’Left alone’, from 1960.

https://youtu.be/E7lIffL3xaQ?list=RDE7lIffL3xaQ

https://youtu.be/VIamYlyujUE?list=RDE7lIffL3xaQ

Ghosthouse, Benavent can be heard on more than few albums playing with Paco de Lucia. We have mentioned it here. Just in case you missed it, couple of links
https://youtu.be/wTNwU2iiprk
https://youtu.be/V3RW1XF1NP4

Acman, very nice music, that Waldron's later album. Thanks
Ghosthouse, most likely you will find the clips if you type the name of the album.
Orpheus,speaking of Wheeler.... I bought this album 20 years ago,in Trieste, Italy. Overheard it in one cd shop, liked it and took it. There was no ytube than, but because of it I can better remeber some events that led me to some music. I am not a big fan of ECM music now, aldo there are exceptions.
This is an album of a band, trio in fact, where Wheeler played.

Azymuth, 'How was it then...never again' from 1994.

https://youtu.be/yIzs92WTtNU
When we spoke about A.Jammal I have mentioned that I like his ’first’ drumless trio. Here is another (two actually) album, made in such form, but this time from the West Coast pianist Vince Guaraldi.
Teamed up with the fine guitarist Eddie Duran and bassist Dean Reilley, Guaraldi swings lightly and with subtle creativity.

Vince Guaraldi trio, ’Flower is lonesome thing’ from 1957.

https://youtu.be/g0AiG4zFEMk
https://youtu.be/PGlNudtgfLQ

He became famous with this album, from 1962.
’Jazz impressions of black orpheus’
https://youtu.be/ym5R67fH7Dc
https://youtu.be/ojj2XGsbbIw
https://youtu.be/rvtqBNW2Xqo

More from his first album, from 1956.
https://youtu.be/-XWAqEG_uwk
https://youtu.be/-XWAqEG_uwk


http://www.allmusic.com/artist/vince-guaraldi-mn0000201678/biography
We are jumping from theme to theme...anyway, more jazz from Jamaica
I posted him before, maybe not in this line up.
Excellent guitar player, Ernest Ranglin with Monty Alexander and  famous rythm section of  Sly and Robbie...'Jamaican legends live'....

https://youtu.be/H0tpI4Y4W7I?list=PLD0ACE18A281C028B
Red Garland’s Quintet on album ’Red ’s good groove’ from 1962.
With Blue Mitchell,Pepper Adams,Sam Jones and Philly Joe Jones...
I doubt, but if somebody does not have this album...

https://youtu.be/2TJG3yfTJfE

https://youtu.be/wp_w8IUq4G4

https://youtu.be/7OmTMVDkts4

https://youtu.be/41kWLRTmBjY

Perhaps the right question wolud be why they did not make any more music in this line up?
Ghosthouse (and others too) check this album. It is Les McCann, but in different mood, ballad style. It is called 'Pretty Lady', from 1961.
This link is from Lp, but it is issued on cd as well

 https://youtu.be/CyRfX-VK_Dg

Also, if you liked the Montreux concert, you may like this album even more,
live from Nyc, recorded at Village Gate, with Blue Mitchell, Stanley Turrentine and others, great line up....

https://youtu.be/EiAwECko9dI

https://youtu.be/nnmvn9DGQIQ

In fact, Les Mc Cann made many good albums, but somehow, he is not the pianist that is mentioned often. Here he plays together with Joe Pass, they made few together, on album that is called 'On time' from 1962

.https://youtu.be/Nc687x_6fXY

https://youtu.be/XsuGSfJAZYE


Ghosthouse and Frogman I am glad that I can point at some albums.
Here is an edition that you may consider, its pretty cheap, hope the sonics are decent, from Amazon com.

https://www.amazon.com/Something-Special-1962-Sessions-Mccann/dp/B00KE0NNAU/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&i...
I was looking to buy some cd's on Amazon and when I checked the label, few times I saw TP4 music.
Never heard about it, could not find any info on net about it.
Anybody has any expirience about it, or better, about its sonic quality ?
Thank you in advance
That story and some 'discussions' before reminded me of this movie.
Its a light story, but stll very funny and very warm, made after true events.
Its french, hope you people would not mind the subtitles.

The Intouchables from 2012
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1675434/
trailer
https://youtu.be/dvdJ--DV0Uo

classsical music scene (must see)
https://youtu.be/6R_XRuzWAzY

one from the opera has no english subtitles, but I guess any child would feel like that if sees a 'singing tree'.
https://youtu.be/3XcFElzBPxs

So, dont blame yourself, Orpheus

Acman, concidence or not, but in my language 'Jagoda' means strawberry..
That  notion leads me to a subject of some 'nice melodies'...'strawberry fields forever'
https://youtu.be/rdIeSHYin88

Ghosthouse,try to see the movie
Here is another guitarist which was not mentioned often. European artsist, started to play in Us during 50’s and continued to do so for next 20 years. Played with C.Baker,S.Rollins and S.Getz. among many others. Here are some links, first from his album as a leader.

Rene Thomas
’Guitar Groove’, from 1960.
https://youtu.be/Vi5sjNSv-v0

https://youtu.be/Ju6gDe6Tne0

One from live album ’Dynasty’ made by Stan Getz, from 1971.

https://youtu.be/MWcRtztr35A

Ghosthouse, saw C.Haden live once, he had a plastic? and transparent wall between him and drummer...


Orpheus, please dont get me wrong, this remark is written in a funny tone, but when I listen to your non jazz suggestions I would never guess that the same person stands behind them.
Some of the guitar and flamenco classics...

Carlos Montoya
https://youtu.be/h_SxWClCwcU

https://youtu.be/rMXQtOl8sM0

C.M. playing St.Louis Blues...interesting?
https://youtu.be/Ko-pTH3xwno

The great Andreas Segovia
https://youtu.be/9efHwnFAkuA?list=PL20AD62A44895D65C

https://youtu.be/ZyX71BrsCHY

Manitas de Plata (he was sometimes considerd as not true to the flamenco tradition)
 https://youtu.be/SBA00QCUUtE


Frogman, pardon me for commenting non jazz subjects, but I do not believe that Cosby and Allen should be in the same sentence...
Again, reading Rok's last conclusion, I should probably restrain myself for saying this, but I find most disturbing thing ever (at least for me)  to listen, read anything in regards to the American politics...and their media coverage and their misinterpretations of every single information possible. That ocean of lies they feed their own people and the rest of the world is becoming quite unbearable. Of cours, this is nothing new. But in recent years the American media has been plagued with all sorts of problems including, sliding profits, scandals about manipulation, plagiarism, propaganda, lower audiences, “dumbing down”, and so on. In the same time they feed people with more and more lies and  fears . I wouldn’t care much about it; but unfortunately they kind of still dictating our future...
I would think that those things are only possible because of lack of general education... 


Frogman, you surprised me in a way. So far, you have always tried to put things we discussed about (music) in a wider perspective, and now I find your statements to be very opposite. I consider you as a very educated person so I find your post very biased because of some personal motiv and not because you are not able to name things with their proper names.

But, let me make myself more clear, if somebody else read this.
You have always said that is important to put things into 'context'.
If you are writing only from a perspective of a cuban disident, I could perhaps understand, but still your post is far from truth. It has at least two incorrect generalisations.

Let me ask you hypothetical question, if you are by any chance refugee from Iraq, Syria or Lybia, would you perhaps think that all evil comes from 'western democracy' ?

Or what would you say about this, now very old quote, about 'the most important force for good, on the planet'...from S.D. Butler
' I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.'

What would you think how the perspective looks from non American point of view? And all that said is ancient history and childs play in comparation from events from ww1  (which by the way is caused by colonial and imperial aspirations of western powers)  ww2  and not the mention recent history  of 20th century and 'export of democracy'.

Bottom line, its all about the money and power.  Hypocricy is the same, no matter do you 'export' 'communism' or democracy'.

But, in the name of truth, all the things should be called by their true meaning. Communism is just a theory, that was never implemented, no matter how it was called by thugs who use it as a poor excuse to rule the people or states.
Same goes for 'western democracy'. If its forced, or used just as excuse for dirty deeds, than its not democracy but agression or tyrany.

Finally, the 'left' or 'right' certainly have different meaning in US than in Europe. But, the most advanced countrys  from old continent, the scandinavin ones, (most of the rest are having the similar policy) are for sure the ones with most developed 'social' states, which does not mean that their citizens are controled by the state, but just that they have very human attitude towards health care, education, employment, housing or about handling the unemployed or homeless people.
In reality often that means 'free' health care and college education, flexible job market and protection of rights of working people.
In fact, if someone would propose the same to the US citizens, no doubt it would be named as 'communist'.

The thing that bothers me is hypocracy, when somebody (individuals, corporations or states) takes the false pretenses and use mass media to spread lies and fears, naming its intentions as a 'good or righteous', when behind is only greed for power or money.



I like above mentioned Paul Gonsalves very much. Couple  albums, maybe not so known...

'P.G. meets Earl Fatha Hines'
https://youtu.be/TZM2ApjFcvM
https://youtu.be/pzRg0LZZvTE

John Lewis  'Wonderful world of Jazz' from 1960.
https://youtu.be/J-mpBlU_lbk
Frogman,before all, please do not take any of my words ’ad hominem’.I had no doubt what so ever that you are very well aware of some of the facts I have said, or will say know, but you have chosen to believe in version that will keep you comfortable. That is your absoulte right and I respect that. However, I repeat myself, since you have had opposite mindset when you disscused music, somehow I expected (more) the same approach in other things (politics) .

There is a place and time for everything. Since this is american forum about music and I am from other continent, writing critic thoughts about politics is not the best way to make friends. So, I will try to make it short and only answer on some your thoughts. My first post was not comment about Cuba, aldo one could wonder how the decades of forced economic embargo had helped the unfortunate present state of things there.

However, you have chosen (imho) very limited perspective and even worse, it is very untrue. Does anybody really needs to explain that in present time. ’communisam’ is not the boogeyman any more? That statement is apsurd.
Trying to picture any country or any man (except those unfortunate one or two) as a ’close to that ideology’ is malicious and pure propaganda (aldo poor one)
That is a kind of statement that perhaps some tv house (fox?) may use, but that is excactly the thing that is wrong and what I described in my first post about media that I loath.
We should all try to rise above such way of ’disscusions’ and use arguments based on facts.

You find my comparation between ’export’ of ’democracy’ or ’communisam’ highly cynical. Even further, you insists that without a doubt, you are certain which is ’most important force for good on the planet’.
Such a claim is so highly inacurate ethicly, no matter that I agree with many things you have listed to support such a claim.
But, to use the term of ’Good’ and in same time close eyes on policy’s that have had commited such a long list of wrong doings on such scale by simply calling them ’theoretical details’ tells me that this ’disscusion’ is not only cynical, but pointless from the start. (like that is a surprise)
Again, ask your self (no need to answer me) would you still think the same if you do not have cuban experience, but let say, from a certain countries in ME. often mentioned in news in recent years? (leveled to ruins, by 'mistake')

some facts
http://revista.drclas.harvard.edu/book/united-states-interventions

I guess I could name around thirty more cases around the world that ended quite bad for people or countries who found them self on receiveng end.
It seems to me that logical conclusion would be that the most feared thing for average guy should be corporate fascism, forced and disguised as a interest of a state. However, that is only my perspective





Orpheus, man would thought that you may even know the guy, Earl Fatha Hines, he's been in jazz forever. Here is a nice double album that I can recommend, recorded live in Village Vanguard, with Roy Eldridge and Coleman Hawkins.
 Its called ' Grand Reunion' from 1965.
https://youtu.be/0fFG6j5wpWY

https://youtu.be/5e2rTrz8-Ic

Sound on cd is much better, than it may appear when man listens ytube clip


Ghosthouse, hope there will be enough time time to change your taste about jazz guitar.
For start, maybe we should post some albums where famous guitar players are part of line up, not leaders. Here are few albums where Kenny Burrell played.
I have many more, almost I cant find any album where he played that I did not like

With Paul Chambers 'Bass on top' from1956.
https://youtu.be/-hEaKtTRrJY

So, you have said that you liked Wynton Kelly, here is album where Kenny Burrell plays, with Chambers too.
 'Piano' from 1958.
https://youtu.be/B2nyZC6KLO8

Same year with Milt Jackson and Coleman Hawkins 'Bean Bags'
https://youtu.be/XnvUEIPRb1g

Another with sax player. Ike Quebec 'Soul Samba 'from 1963.
https://youtu.be/1uY6zlfR7pM


Again, piano player, Bill Evans, with Burrell Playing
'Quintessence' from 1976.

https://youtu.be/qBp1WESsOTU
https://youtu.be/qj7wkx4QClw

With Tommy Flanagan on 'Beyond the blue bird' from1990.
https://youtu.be/GmZKgaEce9I

That could keep you busy, for now. Hope you will like something



Strateahed, you obviously have something to say. I certainly would like to read it more often.

Ghosthouse, I dont mind you caling me ’Acman’ as long as you listen to suggestions.
Here is another one, already posted it here, the guitar that you might like more than 'straight' jazz sounding ones

Ivan Joe Jones
https://youtu.be/kUVNIJl6h38?list=PLQex93r41WkEtAKa6U75DHcs6gv1itT3Y
Ghosthouse, I have few albums of Boogalloo Joe Jones. To my ears he sound very capable, its pity that he played in years when ’jazz jazz’ already started to decline.
On ’All Music’ http://www.allmusic.com/artist/boogaloo-joe-jones-mn0000113250/biography

More on Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_Joe_Jones

Other than that I read that he was not full time musician (or could not afford to be, maybe) and has worked as croupier in Atlantic City.

As for music of simmilar style, maybe this will fit, album with Richard Holmes and Jimmy Mc Griff, also from ’later’ years.
https://youtu.be/MzosF36TOO8

Tommy Flanagan is one of the greats, no doubt. Like him very much. Recorded many great albums to recommend. Will follow with that. By the way, he played with Burrell on that Milt Jackson' album 'Bean Bags' too. In fact they played together not only on thieir own albums, but as sidemans, many times
Ghosthouse, what I said has nothing with those music posts attached
My point was somewhere close to Orpheus words.There is lots of ’blues’, or music played in that key, with lyrics to go with, that sounds totally ’bogus’ to me. Normally I would not react to it (there is so many ’false’ music around in any genre, meaning just words instead of real meaning behind it) but somehow with blues man expects to hear ’genuine’ emotions or experience shared, or at least great interpretation of it, because everybody ’had the blues’ at one point or another in their life.
And than, sometimes, instead, man can hear that ’cheesy’ stuff, pretending to be the ’real’ thing.
Somehow I feel more ’offended’ when I hear ’bad’ music in form of ’blues’ than in other types.
'White boys cant play authentic blues?'
I would say that 'they' play different kind. What ever you like the call either one, but one can hear and recognise distinction, in a heart beat.

T Bone Walker, Joe Turner and Otis Spann, together, with others.
Album is 'Super Black Blues' from 1969.
https://youtu.be/H2BlxoEHpBo

Muddy Waters,Buddy Guy,Junior Wells,Lefty Dizz with Rolling Stones live, from 1981
https://youtu.be/bpX7OhkWC-o

Complete concert
https://youtu.be/GOgnZAQ6jSE

It may look simple to play the blues, but it seems to me that there are lots of music and artists that are pretending to play it, but somehow it just does not sound right. I liked the posts from Rok, the first movie tells a lot about it
Ghosthouse (and others too), there are very much things written about Zawinul and Adderley, so I have choosen to post another sax player and album that was not mentioned, at least not recently, as I can recall.

Ben Webster and Joe Zawinul 'Soulmates' from 1963.

https://youtu.be/Tqbj4rFEOTw

https://youtu.be/YqJi3kuxh5g

https://youtu.be/iiSX0fsE-Pg
As a former bar and club owner, I can share my experiences, from European perspective. Went often, for years to places like Perugia, Italy ,http://www.umbriajazz.com , or to capitols like Berlin, London and many more.  To The States as well, but I guess the Frogman can say more,he is at home there.On all these places I tryed not only to go to clubs, but also to speak with owners or menagers to understand better how the 'scene' looks from their perspective. I do not like to make general conclusions, because the attitude toward music is specific from town to town, or even from place to place,(the biggest and probbably the best jazz festival in europe is in Switzerland http://www.montreuxjazz.com ) but I think its pretty obvious that jazz music (as far for the number of people interested for it) is a very  'endangered species', for decades now. Reading just recently here, a post from a man from San Francisco (sorry, forgot his nick now), where he says that unless you do not have Diana Krall in a club, you cant hope for a bigger audience, says it all. The market has no mercy. In some places,in Europe, the jazz clubs and events are sponsored by the town or by the state, as a projects of culture. As for the prices, if someone is interested,I can say only that local 'stars'(that play music which could be used for torture chambers in Guantanamo) in my country charge for a one night gig in a club, between 6t usd up to 35t usd. House music 'D.J.' depending of their popularity would ask for even much, much more.  Last couple of years we have a house festival in my home town https://youtu.be/qKH9DpPNCrM, with 'music', that needs no comment, but that has brought more touristic attention than all combined efforts of a whole country. Again, they are also sponsored from local and state officials. Would they do the same if it was jazz? Hardly, unless it could bring the crowd.So, to cut long story short, there is no culture without welthy sponsors and I guess the same is in the US, been to famous NYC jazz clubs that were half full on Friday night, despite the great artists playing there
Frogman, I am quite sure that Orpheus will giggle reading this, but if you have recognised the ’bait’ why did you have to answer it?

This way you made me involved, again, in ’discussion’ that I choose not to participate, except for the first post addressed to you.
But, after that, you must have noticed, that I have never answered to some of ’questions’ you have asked, because of few simple reasons.

First, of course,this is a thread about jazz, after all, despite its loose form and some of the things said, by some particapants, that might be considered as ’politically incorrect’.

Second, aldo I respect not only the things you say, but also the way you are sharing your thoughts, I have come to the conclusion after our last ’discussion’ that (when it comes to politics) your perspective and opinions are not wide or deep (are that the proper terms?) in a way that your perspective is, or the whole attitude toward seeing ’bigger picture,’ when you discuss music.
That came as an unpleseant surprise, in a way and in the moment when I have realised that, I decided that is better to stop any potential ’disscusion’ that might go that way.
Because, its pointless (our ’positions’ are too wide apart) and we could only
poison the pleasant relations that we have here, and we are already short in numbers.

And now you have felt the need to mention, (not directly) that topic again?
The best way to answer on some provocation (if you think that Orpheus is doing just that) is to simply ignore it.....or to open artillery fire....

But, if you feel that there are some issues left and if you wish to hear my opinion about it, please say so.
I will do my best to support with arguments any opinion that I might have that you consider that is influenced by ’media hype or brain washing’ and in a same time will not use any words that you may consider as personal attack.
My only fear is that after any such ’disscusion’ things may not be the same here anymore, reagarding our relations between our ’virtual personas’....

https://youtu.be/G29DXfcdhBg


Sonny Rollins and Coleman Hawkins, 'Sonny meets Hawk', from 1963.
As far as I know, the only album they made together.

https://youtu.be/KS8hbwlr9Fw

Curious to hear your thoughts about this album
Frogman, first let me explain one thing where you  have missunderstood my words, perhaps my english is not clear enough.

I have said, that (only) in comparation, with your thoughts and expressions, made about music (where you have shoved knowledge and patience, together with abbility to explain things from their origins, or basics, up to their present state)  your expressed views about some 'political' things, lack the same perspective (ergo,not so wide and deep as music ones)

Furthermore, I did not want to offend you in any way or form, and if you felt that way, please forgive me.

But, my initial reaction was on Rok's words where he have tried to justificate media propagnada (so called 'right' one) by saying that, on the other hand, many 'bad' things in your society comes beacuse of so called 'left' influences. You supported such 'argument', very fast and even added, that you (as society, or world in general?) should be very aware and on alert from dangers of communism. (not in these words, but in the general meaning)

That kind of statement, imho, is incorrect on so many levels, not only by its contence (in fact, there is not much of it), but it dismisses the essence of proper meanings of 'left', 'right', 'truth' or 'propaganda', not to mention the part about 'boogeyman' (that is dead and burried for almost thirty years now)

The fact, that it came from you (whom I consider educated and organised thinker) struck me much more than pure bluntness of said words .


Now, I agree that this 'discussion' is silly and if perhaps if we put it in a right context and organise it by topics and true meanings (as we discuss music) we could all learn something for each other, or at least agree that we do not agree but in calm and friendly way.

I must add, that I do not consider Orpheus as somebody who share 'my political views' simply because he has not stated any (and I certainly have not said anything about mine) 
But, his words (or provocation, maybe) was quite innocent, there was no need for me to answer it , from you, even less, I guess.

You have written quite long post, (last time) on which I have choose not to answer, becuse of all things you have rightly stated now.
If your words and intentions are true why did you feel the need to comment on such small remark from Orpheus, that was essencially addressed to me?

By doing it, it may look that you consider me as someone under influence of 'media brainwashing', which I would object, simply because I think that I have not wrote anything that might contribute to such opinion.

Of, course, if you have any questions I would be more than happy to answer them if that will 'clear the air'.
Rok already has the popcorns and if others would not mind, we could always take the time out and head for 'wrong turn' in our little thread.
Hope we'll be back on tracks soon after.

 https://youtu.be/dqrF_9AceT4



Well, Rok, I know for a lots of places where people on power use the prefix 'democratic', but their actions are far and distant from the needs and will of people (demos).
So, we should drop the story's that were invented to scare litttle children ('trotskyites are coming') and talk about reality which is far more scarier.

As for Rand, I do not excpect that you will read or recommend Chomsky, but you could try somebody more serious. Perhaps Friedrich Hayek?.

Also, I think that if we want to have anything close to 'argumented discussion' we should drop any ideology talk aside.

If that is too much to ask, you should always try to get the sunglasses.
 https://youtu.be/HlLYQyA47d0






I must admit that of all sax greats, Rollins is one that I have least record of.
Somehow his tone or expressing always felt kind of 'hard' to me.
But, Frogman, thank you for your explanation, it kind of 'gives the words' to thoughts.
On the other hand, I liked the 'Bridge' , maybe because of the line up, the overall sound seems different that on the others his albums that I have listened.
Except from 'S.R. and Contemporary Leaders' I have these albums, from his 'later' phase (it was coincidently my 'earlier', in terms of jazz evolution)

'Horn Culture', from 1973.
https://youtu.be/RRsWhwSMXJI

'The cutting edge' from 1975.
https://youtu.be/ubOKAxHbq7g

Somehow, with time, I am going backwards (at least in jazz) to the more simple form of expressions, but I find them to be more substantial.

Orpheus, if I may, please do not look for every oportunity to 'pick up a fight', I realy think its not doing any favours to a thread, aldo some may find it amusing.You know, popocorns with butter and all that....
Today will do an exception and will post two albums that I dont have, of japanese jazz pianist that I have never heard before. Friend of mine introduced me to his work. Curious to know is anybody here familiar with his music?

Ryo Fukui, album is 'Mellow dream' from 1977.
https://youtu.be/AwtF3lCPXeo

'Scenery', from 1976.
https://youtu.be/Hrr3dp7zRQY

Thoughts?
Randy, on amazon you can find remastered editions that are dated from 2010. I have not listened to any of those. CTI recordings are quite good from the start, but the music is somewhat 'Rococo', so it did not inspired me to chase better editions.
As for other RVG work, I prefer older, before remastering, editions when its BN label in question, but I like his remasterd editions on Prestige.
Hope this helps...