Jazz for aficionados

See type number Two.  :)   Fits your clients to a T.

Cheers

***** I can only speak for myself, but for example, when I hear somebody praisng Keith Jarret, without knowing the work of Evans, than I am sceptical about his musical taste and his knowledge in general.*****

This statement requires explanation.  Please.

Cheers

Today's Listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m85XjDtBvU4&index=1&list=PLsvmOVH32OwBU9QVUEyApHLk_Vb91mSmX

I would like for everyone to write their thoughts on this CD.  The Tune lineup is stellar.  The cover photo is Gawjus.   What do you think of the performance?  The tunes are all well known so it should be easy listening.

Since this is a German Band, I am anxious to see what ALEX thinks.

Cheers

*****    I DON'T GIVE A HOOT NOR HANG ABOUT LEARNING ONE WRITTEN NOTE, IS THAT CLEAR?******

We get it!   We get it!   We got it a long time ago!!!!  You talk about music at length.   You express likes and dislikes.   You talk about how the music moves you.  Given all that, the way you say what you are trying to say seems just a little incredulous.

Maybe "I am not interested in the Academic side of music, or music theory, or the history music" would be better.

Because your all-caps statements don't seem to jive with a person that calls himself a Jazz Aficionado.

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O-10:
Could it be that you are just adverse to the  "Nut & Bolts". of music.

Cheers

Antonio Hart -- Harper Brothers -- Roy Hargrove -- DD Jackson -- Javon Jackson -- James Carter,  and others of their time.
A lot of promise.  A strange time in Jazz.

D.D. Jackson -- PAIRED DOWN  vol one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta7b0Hl0ZJU
It's ok to laugh.  I did.   Love it.

Who is Hugh  Ragin, and why have I not heard of him?

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*****  this is some of the most "inside" stuff they've done*****

Que Significa Esto?

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Filthy McNasty:

Great tune and one of the great Tune Titles in Jazz.

You can't beat Silver doing his tune, but I like this version a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD0a1Z4eiOU

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Shostakovitch Jazz Suites:

I posted this a few weeks ago.  The most interesting thing about this music is that the composer considered it Jazz.  This begs the question, where did he get his concept of Jazz?  Not from Pops I would wager. This says a lot about what we talk about often on this thread i.e.   "what is, and what is not Jazz.

I am absolutely sure, that as far as he was concerned, the music qualified as Jazz by some definition to which he had been exposed / taught .  

The guy also turned against other composers in order to please Stalin.   Many of his peers went to the gulag, or the wall.

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***** Where does Rok think that the concepts of harmony in jazz came from if not from the European "Classical" tradition? *****

We are not talking about harmonic concepts, we are talking about Jazz.  Unless you are saying "harmonic Concepts" is the definition of Jazz.

BTW, I don't Alex agrees with you as much as you think.

Welcome back.

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Mary Lou Williams:

Mary Lou is as great today as she was yesterday.  I think you have been smitten. :)

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*****  Composers and performers of all styles of music have been quoting each other's music and style since a man in Africa started beating a log with a stick. :-)*****

This most likely is very true.  Keeping in mind that in order to quote something, you have to have heard it.  In fact I posted something very similar to this a while back.  

If you want to say all music has a common source,(Humans)  I have no problem with that.  But humans have been around a lot longer than the 'European classical tradition'.

But, I have never heard anyone say that Beethoven's Ninth can be traced back to that log being struck.  But I am sure folks in some circles will say that's where 'Satin Doll' originated.  Man on a mission.

Cheers

Some music is closer to our African Log Beater than other music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAEcbNzLXiM&index=12&list=RD_tKIPuLfeKg

*****I think. That's what makes much of his music so humable.*****

I agree.  Being to able to hum, and the desire to hum, is a sure indication of music that has reached people.

I don't think folks hum Stravinsky. :)

Cheers  

*****  but there existed a European Classical music tradition long before any European set foot on African soil.  *****

Go back and re-read the article.  You missed the historical time it was speaking of.

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We always knew The Frogman was an excellent Jazz and Classical musician.   We can now add Tap-Dancing to his skill set.

The more I read his response / posts, the more I have to turn to The Book of Job for the strength and inspiration to carry on.

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I googled Stravinsky to try and figure out his standing among Classical composers.   When the   'BEST' were listed, he didn't make the list (best 10 or 15), but when the 'Most Famous'  were listed, there he was.  Hmmmmm   there is that 20th century hype machine at work.

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"Music is found in every known culture, past and present, varying widely between times and places. Since all people of the world, including the most isolated tribal groups, have a form of music, it may be concluded that music is likely to have been present in the ancestral population prior to the dispersal of humans around the world. Consequently, music may have been in existence for at least 55,000 years and the first music may have been invented in Africa and then evolved to become a fundamental constituent of human life."

So we can say that there would be no Jazz and also no "European Classical Tradition" without our log beater in Africa.   I will agree that Jazz is a eventual result of the first human attempt to make music.   That would be about 55,000 years ago.   I think that predates Europe, let along the "European Classical Tradition".  Nice try.


***** Unfortunately, Phil Woods was hugely unrecognized as a composer and arranger. *****

"If they are unknown, not respected or ignored, it's for a very good reason"
The Frogman's First Law of Musicians.

Cheers

 

***** To say "we are not talking about harmonic concepts, we are talking about jazz" is like saying we are not talking about food, we are talking about gumbo****

No, it means we are talking about the finished or final product.  

Cheers

***** Rok, FWIW I can hum Stravinski. :-)*****

AAUGH!!!!

***** Rok, no matter what you say they will never get it.*****

O-10,  I don't even know why you bother.  They are so arrogant.   They will never understand, why do you waste your time, etc.........

hahahah   sound familiar?

Cheers

http://www.thetoptens.com/greatest-classical-composers/

http://www.progressfocused.com/2012/12/top-10-greatest-classical-composers-ever.html

http://listverse.com/2009/12/17/top-15-greatest-composers-of-all-time/

Apology accepted.

Cheers

The Frogman as usual is correct.   My view is:

This is some of what we need to know, and I am too lazy to try and discover  the answers

What preceded "The European Classical Tradition" in Europe?  Where did it come from.  

Do / did all human cultures, at their most primitive,  create indigenous music?   Think, the aborigines in Australia and the recently found tribes in the Amazon region.   Did they make music?

Should we separate the structure of music, from the artistic part of music, when speaking of influence?

Time for The Frogman to strut his stuff.

Cheers

***** Amazing music and incredible performance:*****

Just because you say it, don't make it so.  I know that may be hard for you to grasp.


***** You’re cherry picking your lists and not accounting for the subjective nature of this silly exercise*****

I just clicked on the first three lists.  Why would I cherry pick something, if I am seeking information for myself? 

Any list may be subjective, even yours.  Unless you know of a list that was handed down on Mt Sinai.

Cheers

Alex:
*****  Everything is conected,and there are so many influences to music, and jazz is not an exception. I dont know why that sound so strange to you, Rok and Orpheus?
 For example, if the events around WW2 did not make the largest migration of artists and intellectuals in history, from Europe to US, do you think that American musical culture would be the same today? After all, Stravinsky, Bartok, Schoenberg, Hindemith all went to States, later two taught in universities there.*****

If would be helpful if you would read my posts, and not respond to the straw-men arguments thrown out by The Frogman.   I am quite capable of saying what I mean.   I have said that all music is a great continuation starting with prehistoric humans.

We just don't buy into the school of thought,  that the "European Classical Tradition" is the end all, be all, of human music.  It was not Alpha and it sure as hell won't be Omega.   Just a bump along the journey.

World War ll:

German and European Classical Music Culture seems to have fared just great since the war.   And are you are saying we would not have had folks like: Stravinsky, Bartok,Schoenberg and Hindemith but for the war?   If so, we suffered more than I thought as a result of that Damn EUROPEAN war.

Cheers

And each and every clip a Jazz Classic.   
If those clips prove anything, it's that Jazz and Classical are not compatible.  Of course MJQ proved that eons ago.  They gave up.

Cheers

This what I am trying to say.   After this, I'm moving on.   

Ford Motor company invents the assembly line method of auto production.  A truly great innovation.   Changes manufacturing around the globe.   Cars are still produced this way today.   Ford still does it, as does makers like BMW, and Rolls Royce.

The question is, although we agree Ford changed, influenced, the way cars are made.  But, what do current Rolls Royce cars, and BMW cars, have in common with Ford Fusions.   Where is the FORD influence in a Rolls Royce automobile?

People around the world paint by smashing plants to create some sort of dye, and they then use their fingers to paint or draw on cave walls or rocks or trees.   Some guy, "Mr Jones", one day invents canvas, paint and brushes.  His invention spreads around the world at light speed.  Everyone is using Canvas, paint and brushes.

Question:  Has Mr Jones influenced art?  He certainly has influenced the tools they use to paint.   But, has he influence WHAT artist around the world paint?  Can you say that the Mona Lisa was influenced by Mr Jones?

Are we confusing tools and methods, with the talent and creativity to use those tools?

In my opinion, The European Classical Tradition is represented by Ford and "Mr Jones."  Rolls Royce and The Mona Lisa , represent folks like Mingus and Ellington.

That's as clear as I can state my position.   Time to move on.

Cheers

*****  Not only did the group play a variety of gigs from strip clubs to jazz clubs, *****

Now this sounds like a real Jazz Band, staying true to the roots of Jazz. :)

***** and added bassist Willie Dixon to his regular working combo ****

Would this be THE Willie Dixon of Blues fame?

I will check out Mr Lazar.   He is unknown to me.

Cheers

home-boy

Willie Dixon:

Born in Mississippi, of course, who in Blues wasn't?

Maybe the most prolific composer of blues songs ever.   A lot of folks made their careers off his genius.   As soon as he wrote them, the British invasion fraudsters stole them.   Or so it seemed.

I like him better as a writer, than as a performer.   Howlin' Wolf doing one of Dixon's best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQLdztuMd1g

Cheers

BTW, when you order your $300 Sam Lazar CD, get one for me.   I'll pay you back Saturday. :)

***** just don't tell me Howlin Wolf was influenced by Tchaikovsky, and everything is OK. *****

Would you believe, Beethoven?  :)

Your home-home getting as close to classical as he will get. hahahah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOrMg3pY7hw

Cheers

Hugh "Peanuts" Whalum:

Very nice.  They seem to be having fun and are so authentic.  Something that would great to hear and see live.   These sort of performances are what's needed to bring young folks into Jazz.

Would have been even better with a real piano and bass.   And of course real piano and bass players.

Thanks

Cheers

***** was it from a movie?*****

I am not sure.   Maybe some war / military movie of the '1941' type.

cheers

There is only ONE Jazz, and it's name is Jazz.  No bloody prefixes, no freaking  hybridization, no hyphens  and no multi-syllable words needed.

Cheers

Keaggy & Pachelli and Adrian Legg:

It is very hard for a professional player to sound 'bad' on solo or duet acoustic guitar.  But try and visualize the same music being played on Trumpet or Saxophone.  

Sort of like playing vibes, a lot of routine unexceptional  playing, and players, can hide behind certain instruments.

Solo guitar sounds very life-like on high end stereo systems.  We can hear the fingers pluck the strings, seems as if we can  hear the individual vibrations.   Close your eyes and they are in your living room.   No orchestra can make you feel that way with Beethoven Symphonies.

But what are they saying?  My take?  Not much.  Very simplistic music.   Neither the Players nor the music was as good as it sounded at first listen.

Of course neither clip was Jazz.

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Take Five:

Didn't sound 'right'.   Now I know why.   Where is Morello's solo.   It ain't Take Five without it.

KOB:
I never realized that KOB is not represented in the 100 Best of the 50's box set.   Interesting.

Cheers

That's the one!   I was just about to send it.   Some things just can't be improved upon.   Morello just fakes you out with his solo.  He never strikes where he is 'supposed' to.  Try to play along with him.  (Air Drums)   Got more moves than MJ.   Must be that time thing.

On of the few drum solos that is vital to the tune.   Most are just "lets let the drummer play for a while" type things.  Distractions.

Cheers

Oliver Sain:

Wow!  A lot of names from the past.   I remember people talking about Willie Love in Greenville.   'Living Blues' magazine did a nice article on him a few centuries ago.

Most of the people you mentioned crisscrossed my neck of woods in their heyday.  Little Milton was a regular.

You do realize there were many guys named Sonny Boy Williamson.

That's part of the charm of the blues.   Everyone is buried in several different places.  Killed by several different means.   Charley Johnson has at least three tombstones in three different places.

And of course US Highway 61 will carry you to Chicago, New Orleans, Los Angeles or New York.   What a road.

Welcome to the Land of The Blues.

Cheers

Oliver Sain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUeIFbnCChs

Was he practicing?!?

Lord help us all.

Cheers

Learsfool:

Article in the local paper about a Local jazz duo, consisting of Piano and Mellophonium.

The horn player talks about how difficult the horn is to play.  He calls his, 'Attila The Horn'.  It was designed to bridge the gap between Trombone and Trumpet.  Stan Kenton used them in his band.

It reminded me of the exchange we had about the French Horn and how 'nimble' it was to play, which was my way of saying it could not be played fast.  You corrected me.

Could you list in order of difficulty to play, the brass instruments in an Orchestra.   And speak a little about what makes them more or less difficult.

The article goes on top say the Mellophonium has not been manufactured since 1977.   Made by Conn.   They said that like it meant something.

Thanks

Cheers

cleeds:

***** I think the French horn is, hands down, the most difficult to play of all of the brass instruments. That's because the same valve fingering can produce multiple, often closely spaced, notes. *****

That's what I thought also.   That's why I could not imagine anyone playing it as a solo instrument in Jazz.   At least any 'cookin' Jazz.

Thanks for the post

Our Classical oracle will speak soon.

Cheers

Learsfool:

Thanks for the info.   Yes I am familiar with Mellophones in marching bands.   I played Bass Trumpet in the marching band, and Fluglehorn in Concert Band.    Jack of all trades, Master of none. :)

Cheers

Today's Listen:

Ron Carter & Jim Hall -- TELEPHONE

Just Guitar and Bass, but it works just fine.   Speaking of nimble!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Omlufc2rw

Thanks to The Frogman for the insight on 'take Five'.  We all know what we like and don't like, but The Frogman tells us why we do and don't.

Cheers

Kenny G gets on an elevator and says “Wow! This rocks!”  

How many sax players does it take to change a light bulb?
Sixty. One to change the bulb and fifty-nine to talk about how much better Michael Brecker would have done it.

Cheers

A group of terrorists hijacked a plane full of tenor players…
They called down to ground control with their list of demands and added that if their demands weren’t met, they would release one tenor player every hour.

Cheers

Coltrane for lovers:

It's a compilation.  I have found that I usually have all the music on the initial CD releases.  I almost sprung for  Coltrane's 'Heavyweight Champion'.   But, like most one-artist compilation I had most of it, and just too many alternate takes.

***** Since Previn goes back and forth between classical and jazz,***

He doesn't travel That far while going back and forth.

Stereophile:

I can't understand why you would read that rag for ANY reason.  If they encourage people to spend serious money on wire, and every other audio con out there, why would you value their opinion on ANYTHING?   Esp something as important as Jazz / Music.

Cheers

***** Timmons is playing a less than stellar piano*****

If he was speaking of his playing, he would not have included the letter 'a' in the sentence.   He would simply have said "he was playing less than stellar piano".

He was speaking of the piano itself.

Cheers

Brubeck and the 2012 posts:

I am surprised I am / was so consistent.   Would not change a word.

Thanks.  I enjoyed reading all that.

Cheers

Marcia Ball:  Not everyone can sing the blues.  It helps a lot if you have lived the Blues.

Paul Desmond & Dry martini:
Mission accomplished.

The Frogman Posting Shemekia Copeland:
WTF!!!   oops   She's  from NYC.   Never Mind.
.
Cheers