Jazz for aficionados

Keegiam, second career? 😊

mary-jo, “non-essential” gatherings of any size are banned.

Rok, I am not in the mood for bickering, but I am always in the mood for dialogue for the the sake of clarity and hopefully progress in understanding points of view.

As I said, I do agree with the general sentiment expressed in cgoodwin’s post: “Jazz is a living, breathing art form”. This is my viewpoint and I have no expectation that anyone else will feel the same way. First, as I have said several times before I have trouble with the word and description “aficionado”. I’m not sure what it means and it is way too easy to hide behind that banner when none of us here can live up to the complete definition of the word. Fan? Avid fan? Sure. Aficionado? For some reason the word always conjures up visions of Hugh Hefner in a silk robe and pipe listening to his hi-fi. Call me weird. There’s way too much that all of us don’t really understand about this great music. Personal taste and preferences are not knowledge and understanding. Now, your diatribe:

“Facts“? ....right. “in some circles”? Not a chance; you need more than one to make a circle. To not recognize what a contribution Corea has made to the music as composer, never mind as player, only makes cgoodwin’s point. Name me one tune written by McBride that has become a Jazz standard. Corea has several. Name me one bass player that names McBride as an important influence. The list for Corea is very long. As I said before, McBride is a great player; but, really?

As always, I don’t care that you don’t like (mostly) the new stuff. What I do care about and find ironic and unfortunate is that you claim to be such a purist and “keeper of the flame” and yet, when someone who clearly states “I love the old stuff” and goes to the trouble of posting here for the first time you attack instead of being welcoming and encouraging more involvement. Mind you, he probably could have been more tactful, but hey....what is it they say, “the pot calling the kettle black”? 😄
See, had you left me out of it as is appropriate you would have spared yourself (and me) all this 😊

Be well and stay healthy.

Btw, always sad to hear of someone’s passing and probably in bad taste to say anything remotely negative about someone who has just passed, but to add to my point about “facts”, “old vs new” and “personal taste vs understanding”, I notice the headline of the article about Dibango refers to him as “Saxophone great...”.....I’ll stop there.

Thank you both for your responses to MY diatribe.

Rok,

**** Most of us here use the term as a form of self-mocking. Making fun of ourselves. No one takes it serious. At least I assumed no one did / does. ****

News to me and glad to know. As I have said before I believe you and I agree in spirit more than it may seem; things just get a little muddled sometimes. Well, not too sure about the “no one” part. I guess that means that you too should “start your own thread” 😊

O-10,

it’s just a word. I already explained why I have trouble with it and Rok helped me out. No need to rehash. Actually, as I think about it, it’s a bit like the debates about what is and what is not Jazz; and, why ultimately it doesn’t really matter that much. Your thread is just fine. I did like Hefner’s “friends”. Romantic and lady killer that you are you will surely appreciate that 😘

Rok,

**** However, I will speak up when someone shows disrespect to the people who made and played this great music. ****

To quote the poor guy who had no idea just how much heat was in this kitchen: “I love the old stuff”. We’ve called it that countless times here. Where’s the disrespect?

O-10,

let’s not confuse matters. It was the article that referred to Dibango as “saxophone great”. I had no idea that you too thought he was a saxophone great. Had I known, I would have “let it slide” despite my strong disagreement. Seems to me there is a difference between someone ”floating one’s boat” (once?) and considering him one of the greats. Way too low a bar in my book.  Adele must have been really something and really raised your bar 😉

Just having a little fun, you guys. See what social distancing and having all my spinning classes cancelled does to a person? I finally have time to bias my amps’ sixteen power tubes 😱. Oh, shi#, does that mean that I am an.....”audiophile”? Please, nobody tell Rok. Anyway, putting all the silly pseudo-personal stuff aside the important point for me in all this is pretty simple. We complain about how this art form is dying and/or claim that this thread is some sort of exclusive club with few members. Yet, we do little to encourage more participation when new folks show up that either have a different point of view, are less than perfectly clear or tactful expressing it; or who don’t yet know where the kitchen’s fire extinguisher is kept. Seems to me that it’s not the best way to keep the Jazz flame alive.

Everyone be well.

Great to see new participants here.  I knew you were out there!  Welcome and I look forward to your comments.  A vote for WBGO 88.3 FM out of Newark, NJ.  Fantastic jazz station and great mix of the classic and the new (no smooth jazz).

http://wbgo.org/#stream/0

**** Art Blakey must be rolling over in his grave! ****

I kinda doubt it. Most musicians don’t think that way. Does the music project sincerity and show a high level of musicianship? Many of the great jazz players are known to have objected to strict genre classification. Some have even objected to the name "jazz" itself. There has always been musical fluff; every era has had it. A lot of "smooth jazz" is musical fluff. Personally, I can’t stand most of it; but some of it isn’t fluff and has some redeeming qualities. Moreover, the lines get blurred with some music that falls into the "fusion" category; and there’s certainly a lot of interesting stuff in that category.

Personally, I don’t feel anything is being "bastardized" by appropriating the term "jazz" for the name "smooth jazz". Truth is "smooth jazz" or whatever one wants to call it is characterized by having many of the elements of jazz (by any definition): harmonic changes more complex than most rock or pop tunes, incorporates improvisation that is decidedly an offshoot or extension of the vocabulary of classic jazz and often features a horn, usually saxophone which is practically emblematic of jazz. The idea that Classic Jazz was somehow hurt by modern jazz, fusion, smooth jazz or whatever is mistaken imo. As tablejockey wrote, the decline in interest in "straight ahead" jazz came first. What we know as Classic Jazz is the product of an era and reflects that time. As great as it was, and still is on record, that music is simply and sadly not as relevant in the context of the overall culture as it once was. Good news is that, as always, there is great new jazz being performed and recorded at a very high level of musicianship and creativity. Whether a particular listener likes it or not is a different matter.

My favorite "pre-fluff" George Benson album (1967):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6yArVkXgI

Rok, check this out. Ghosthouse commented on this recently. I posted it a while back. I suspect you overlooked it based on an assumption. We could talk about assumptions; but, hey, what was it that Otis said? 😊


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvxWibFr0wiKOyy4lwYc8zn6wnvsEMNJR

Nice clips, btw....both.

Boy, that MacBride sure likes to play with noise makers:

https://youtu.be/R1iav-4nAy0

https://youtu.be/cwn6dgDFJlE

O-10, let it go and lighten up, please.  Stress is not a good thing; especially now.  Humor, on the other hand, is.  From my vantage point you, as the OP, should take the high road and engage and inform a newcomer.  Personally, I saw nothing particularly egregious or insulting in what he wrote; certainly no more than what some card carrying aficionados have sometimes written.  Feel free to have the last word.

Stay well and smile.

"the thumb":

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EksUgcyXoO8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MOm17yw__6U

Rok, interesting question and excellent comment on the possibilities. If you think about it, it is both. If one starts with the premise that everything that a great improviser does is done “on purpose”, which it is, then there’s your answer. Sure, they get “lost” in the moment, but they are in control at all times. However, “quoting”, as we know, is sometimes more effective than others. Sometimes a player wants to throw in some humor (speaking of humor) into a solo and throws in a quote of a tune in a way that isn’t in context logically as you say. Great as he was, how many times do we have to hear “Mona Lisa” in a Dexter Gordon solo? To me, it often sounds forced. Quoting is most effective when it is used more organically (hate the overused word, but appropriate). For instance, and I suspect this is what you refer to:

Kenny Garrett quotes twice (quoting the tune one is playing itself doesn’t count) in “Straight No Chaser”. Around 3:10 or so he quotes the beginning of “Camptowm Races” (!); then, around 4:00 or so he quotes “When The Saints ....”. Go back and notice how he starts his solo. He begins his solo with the very note that Hargrove ends his solo with. That very note happens to be the first note of the tune “Camptowm Races”. Perfect logic. These guys are brilliant. They have a huge “vocabulary” to draw from. Great clips, thanks.

Heard this on WBGO this morning.  I've heard this contemporary guitar player with Donald Fagen, Michael Brecker and others, but not his solo efforts.  Love the feeling he and the rhythm section get going on this Latin flavored tune.  Interesting how his soloing goes in unexpected directions:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PUvBniVENcw

Ah, Clifford Scott!  We can always count on you to bring the almost forgotten players to our attention, Alex.  What a tenor sound!  The reason he probably hasn't been mentioned here is that he is known less as a jazz player (although he was a good one in the Texas tenor style) and more as the guy who defined rock and roll saxophone and played on many early r&r hits.  Remember this one?:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bl4eOjNxIxg

Here’s a blast from the past...this thread’s past. These are the clips and comments on Howard Roberts that Alex posted a while back; and other tidbits...😉

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/jazz-for-aficionados/post?highlight=Howard%2BRoberts&post...

Great stuff, pjw!  Loved the Booker Erving cut.  Didn’t know that record and what an interesting pairing!, Erving and Woody Shaw.  Surprising until one thinks about it.  Erving’s sound is associated with Monk.  Angular, kind of quirky.  Never thought of Woody Shaw as “quirky”, if definitely different, but definitely angular,  

Schubert, heading up Saturday, day after tomorrow.  Good to see you back.  Wishing you health and all best.

Fascinating comments from the ultimate recidivist, Herbie Hancock. Very erudite and extremely interesting individual, not to mention brilliant musician, talks about “The Ethics Of Jazz”.  Lots of great anecdotes, stories and much more about his life in Jazz and Jazz in life in this series of lectures.  Some may want to skip the intro and FF to 10:00:

https://youtu.be/EPFXC3q1tTg

https://youtu.be/Nkg6IaOAd8M

It’s difficult for players of this caliber to make a record that is less than good. Sometimes the stars align and there such a high level of musical synergy that the playing is exceptional and truly inspired. This is one of those records, imo. Interesting in that it is the product of two different sessions and two different rhythm sessions with Philly Joe Jones being the one constant and he sounds incredible. The writing is exceptional and the soloing always tells an interesting story.  Check out "Carolyn" by Lee Morgan; what a great and interesting tune! One of the best recordings of classic jazz that I have ever heard. Badass jazz:

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUJ7V33M1wR14_Yqgv0AwCaCxxKXSKbOu

Glad you liked it; it’s a real classic. That particular issue of the record includes two alternate takes and that is the reason I posted that version; the original does not. That clip I posted suggests that Hank Mobley and Lee Morgan were co-leaders on the date. They were not, it was Mobley’s date, but it’s interesting to note that Morgan contributed half the tunes on the record. Some of my favorite Lee Morgan on record. He sounds fantastic and I find the contrast between his fiery style and Donald Byrd’s more "careful" approach very interesting.

You mention Leonard Bernstein. Next year (actually beginning August of this year) will see the centennial celebration of Bernstein, one of the (perhaps the) greatest American composers (not to mention conductor and educator). Fantastic musician whose music bridges the gaps between Classical, Jazz and pop. Iconic figure in music. I agree with you about that version of "Somewhere"; just beautiful. This is one of my favorite Bernstein tunes from one of my favorite records:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0enbmhunOoo

And, of course:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLoaL3AV63h0NdjdUwmwKsSG2mih1T6rNb&v=YxkJ4_Gpxoo

O-10, a correction if I may.  It was a Broadway musical ("play") first.  The cast album was the first recording of the music and the movie came after.  There have been subsequent Broadway revivals and recordings of the music.

I don’t think that being a musician is what might qualify me to explain since the reasons have more to do with societal issues than musical; although the musical are certainly part of the reason. The reasons why are probably the same as the reasons that the musical had a lot of difficulty getting financial backers and suffered some production false starts: many thought that the themes of the story were dark and unsettling. After all, what would 1957 audiences prefer to hear? Perky, easily hummable tunes like "76 Trombones" about a traveling band instrument salesman? Or, exotic sounding (for the time) songs that spoke about gang violence, interracial love and ends in tragedy? Like many great works it was "ahead of its time"; or, as Schubert recently wrote, "had the courage to be in the time".

For me, the Oscar Peterson "West Side Story" sets the standard for piano trio renditions of the music.  Thanks for the Policastro clip, but I didn't much care for it; didn't like the drummer's "draggy" feel.  Bill Charlap is one of the best on the scene today:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EoP7LTj4mzU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1EPaE3Z-B3Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=85ei57oi7xk

Don't know the Previn.  I'll check it out, thanks.

Fantastic clips and heard the sad news a little while ago on the radio. Beautiful player with a wonderful and unique time feel. Unfortunate that she hasn’t been covered in this thread and just one example of why it’s maddening when general negative comments are made about "modern" jazz vs classic jazz. Different time, different musical sensibility and often equally high level of craft. Loved the live clip. And in 5!

Pryso, listened to the Previn "Wes Side Story".  Fantastic!  What an amazing musician he is and I sometimes forget what a great piano player he is as I usually think of him and know his work, first and foremost, as a conductor and composer.  One of the most impressive resumes out there.  Fitting that he should take on the music of Leonard Bernstein, another musician who was extremely successful as composer/conductor (although less so as pianist).  

I really like what what he did with that music in a piano trio setting.  The trio sounds fantastic and swings like crazy.  Very different in attitude from the Oscar Peterson recording, however.  I like both recordings very much, but if a choice had to be made, I would say the Peterson gets closer to the intended feeling of the original music.  While Bernstein's WSS is remarkable for being able to so successfully blend the elements of Classical, Jazz and pop, it is ultimately music written for musical theater and, as such, has a certain stylistic tradition to live up to.  Not a negative at all, but that stylistic tradition includes, as is to be expected, a certain amount of....theatricality; combined with a typically very upbeat quality.  For me, and all other considerations aside, the Peterson gets closer to that feeling.  The Previn, as great as it is, is a little "cool" by comparison and without as much of the up-beat and wide-eyed quality that characterizes a lot of music for the theater.  Both are great!  Thanks for mentioning that recording.

   
Something old. One of my favorite tunes; something about the shape of this melody. Lee Morgan sounds amazing on this version:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=edJjOg103ks

Something new. Heard this on WBGO this morning. Nice groove in this modern take on the classic "Afro Blue":

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WM95Ew4OdE0

With working links:

Something old. One of my favorite tunes; something about the shape of this melody. Lee Morgan sounds amazing on this version:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=edJjOg103ks

Something new. Heard this on WBGO this morning. Nice groove in this modern take on the classic "Afro Blue":

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WM95Ew4OdE0

Very touching, Schubert.  Thanks for sharing.  Health and best wishes.

Rok, glad to see you came around re Chick.  One of the greats of his generation without a doubt.  He and Herbie Hancock have been considered the main movers and shakers of their generation by their peers:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m5khe7BKtuRKg1vXeBlIJUclYjQH53CU0

https://youtu.be/jg6z9d5miO0

https://youtu.be/2zir6HqjDMo

Btw, you asked a question re “quoting” and I responded.  Agree? Disagree? Thoughts? What were the quotes you heard in the clips? 

Roy Haynes was 85 when they played that concert.  Unbelievable!  

O-10,

https://imgur.com/gallery/UzMvG

Fantastic clips, Pryso. Jazz evolves and morphs into different styles, but as always what makes it good or not so good is the level of craft and sincerity regardless of styles. Different time so different aesthetic. Your choice of clips is interesting not only for the quality of the music, but also for their dates. The Louis Armstrong clips from 1947 are interesting because that style was almost "retro" by then with more "sophisticated" swing having already had its say and bebop coming on the scene. It’s very possible that this is the reason that you feel those versions swing more than other (earlier?) versions you’ve heard. Eventhough there was resistance from some players to more modern styles, some level of influence is always unavoidable. That was around the time that Louis famously referred to bebop as "Chinese music". What an interesting voice Teagarden had! Thanks for the clips.

Happy Easter, everyone!  

Can't speak to the Turrentine set, but I recently picked up the Freddie Hubbard set that is part of this reissue series and the sonics are more than acceptable and a great and inexpensive way to pick up those classic recordings.  IMO, the quality of the music trumps (sorry) any concerns re the sonics.  Fantastic record:

https://youtu.be/81VkZzDrzY8

**** were you familiar with "Sonny Cris"? ****

Of course; I’ve had his recordings for some time and "Sonny Criss Plays Cole Porter" is one of my favorites by him. He was one of the most prominent alto players and one who bridged the West Coast saxophone tone approach with the inescapable influence of Charlie Parker. Personally, he has never been one of my favorite alto players; but I like him. I am not particularly fond of that "constant vibrato" tone style and a time feel that harkens back to the swing era a little. Just personal preferences. He was great and as far as importance in the general scheme of things probably on the tier below players like Sonny Stitt, Cannonball Adderly and Charles McPherson.

I am am not sure why you are singling out audiophiles for "not knowing how many things have gone wrong in the last twenty years". I think I’ve got a pretty good idea; although, with respect, my sense is that you and I would not agree on what many of those things are. Regardless, we would all do well to not lose sight of all the things that have gone right. Regards.

O-10, after four years of this thread it’s obvious that you need to periodically stir the pot and create some sort of controversy peppered with judgments of a personal nature; judgments that you have no business making. Perhaps it is having nothing better to do. Perhaps it is loneliness and the need for interaction of a contentious nature. I don’t know and frankly don’t care. What I do know is that you don’t know me and if you think that interaction on a thread like this can lead to knowing someone then my guesses are probably close to accurate. I assure you that whatever you think about me is totally off the mark...as is much of what you write here. Shame on me for taking your bait again. I hope I was able to, if only for a short while, fill some sort of void for you. Feel free to fire away, but don’t expect any further response. Btw, if this doesn’t prove the error in you assertion that ** Any thread, every thread, is a good one to discuss things of this nature. **  I don’t know what would. Over and out.

Like I said....

Right off the bat let me say that I don’t dislike Kamasi Washington; I rather liked the clips that Acman3 posted. However, after having made a point over the last couple of days of listening to several of his clips on YouTube (including some live concert videos) in order to see what all the media hype is about I have to say that, imo, much of it is just that...hype. I think he is an interesting conceptualist who has created a high-energy sound that combines SOME elements of jazz with funk/soul/hip-hop grooves and then pours on lots of dressing with vocals, strings and visual elements. As a player he has absorbed the high energy post-Coltrane-infused funk-tenor language of players like Michael Brecker and Bob Berg pretty well; but, I’m sorry, an accomplished jazz tenor player he is not. Notice that his tunes are mostly very simple harmonically and when he improvises it is always over simple one or two chord vamps. With all due respect, the idea that he has picked up where Coltrane left off is, imo, beyond exaggeration; especially when we have (or had) players like Dave Liebman, Steve Grossman, Brecker and others who are far more accomplished modern tenor players and who clearly extended Coltrane’s harmonic vocabulary. I would bet the iPad that I am writing on that he couldn’t credibly navigate the changes to "Giant Steps", never mind a standard ballad, if his life depended on it. I couldn’t find a single jazz standard by him on all of YouTube and there’s probably a reason why. He does what he does and he does it well: high energy, impressively "large" arrangements best described as "soul-jazz"; and, he looks the part. He has created a rather unique sound, not so much as player, but with his concept as band leader/composer that is appealing and mostly accessible. FOR ME, it just isn’t on a comparable artistic level as some of the artists he is being compared to.

Great head cleaner, ghosthouse; and one of the greatest debut albums in all of jazz.  One of my favorite records.  Re the Pitchfork review:

Well, I guess I could simply point out that when going to their website I find that the first six "latest reviews" are of Shabaka Palaces, Sheer Mag, Yoko Ono, Integrity, Waxahatchee and Moon Diagrams.......Yoko Ono!?!  Further research (😉) shows that out of several dozen other record reviews there are one or two of artists that can be rightfully called "jazz" artists.  Let's just say that jazz is not their area of expertise.  The review is honest in its contention that Washington's music seeks to expand jazz's audience by appealing to listeners whose tastes are more in the hip hop or rock camps.  Nothing wrong with that....as long as the hyperbole in the Coltrane and Miles connections is kept in check.  I think your reaction to the sheer size of the "Epic" project is emblematic of a big part of Washington's general musical philosophy: make it big and give the listener lots of it; sure to impress....some.

"Beam me up, Scotty" 

Well, it is true that men are always noticing and comparing melons 😊.  

You're definitely not imagining the similarities between the two.  First of all, they are both in the same key (F).  They are both modal tunes with few chord changes and changing in four or eight measure phrases.  Both also have a very similar rhythmic feel even WM is usually done a little faster than CI.  The Watermelon Man groove is really a Latin groove very similar to the Cuban "guajira" beat and Cantaloupe Island has a very similar rhythm.  Nice catch.

Well, I’ve been to an awful lot of Manhattan restaurants and I’ve never heard music like that in any of them. "Smooth jazz", yes, but the Connors cut is not smooth jazz; as I define it, anyway. "Mr. Cool" is not nearly as "bubble-gummy" as most of what gets passed off as "smooth jazz" and, for me, falls more in the category of "fusion", but without the abnoxious electronic excess of a lot of it. Nice funky shuffle beat on a tune with a couple of interesting twists and turns, and fast virtuosic flourishes very reminiscent of vintage Chick Corea (Return To Forever); nice playing all the way around. Connors shows a lot of restraint in his playing, especially for being the leader, and I appreciate the economy. The rest of the band is recently deceased Latin-jazz-fusion flutist Dave Valentin’s band; all excellent contemporary fusion players and very in demand studio guys. Re the recently brought up subject of bass players: if Lincoln Goines' playing doesn’t prove what a formidable influence Jaco Pastorious was in the world of electric bass I don’t know what is. My only real issue with the clip is that I think the engineer/producer got just a little bit carried away with the micing of the snare. Great snare sound; but just a little bit too big, imo.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DuwzQOP2LXA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRMOZ-GITw

Great clips! Jimmy Bruno sounds amazing. Talk about deserving more recognition! Killer player tearing up the changes of the tune. Thanks for the Woody Herman clip. Blast from the past for me as it was one of the very first jazz records I bought back in the late 70’s (ouch!). Woody’s band always sounded great no matter the vintage.

Coltrane’s iconic tune "Giant Steps" became a kind of proving ground for players particularly, and no surprise, tenor players; although it has been a test of all jazz instrumentalists’ true improvising mettle. Unusually demanding of a player’s control of harmony with its very fast (two per measure) changes and with unusual relationships to boot.

This is one the most unusual versions of the tune that I have heard by one of the geniuses of jazz. It strikes me that there is a resemblance to something that Kamasi Washington might do, "Star Trek voices" and all (thank you Ghosthouse); but with one more very important ingredient...true genius. Very weird...and I love it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8afVQbPcQ-s

Another unique and favorite tenor player does it with a Samba beat:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fEyBOiQCvsA

It takes ba//s to play Giant Steps even faster than Coltrane did it. Probably the hottest tenor player right now Chris Potter is an amazing virtuoso. Love the way he and Kenny Werner uses counterpoint on this. As if the tune wasn’t hard enough!:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lx2I113XROw

At the end of the day (I actually kinda hate that expression) it's hard to argue with the opinion that he was the greatest of all tenor players.  Just one year before "Giant Steps".  Amazing:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QHj-E6AHo0A

Not meaning to bore anyone with personal details, but simply to make a point and (hopefully) food for thought:

I have a mole on the left side of my neck that has been there for as long as I can remember. I have always thought that it was probably the result of a couple of bad sunburns suffered during my careless younger days; or, the result of...who knows? My teenage son has a similar mole in the exact same spot on his neck; he doesn’t like the sun. Coincidence? I don’t believe in coincidences. Isn’t it fascinating and mysterious what traits are inherited from and passed on by our parents?

Nice clips of Ravi Coltrane, Acman3. Coincidentally, about three weeks ago, at an outdoor Classical music concert of all places, I met Ravi Coltrane. Nicest guy you will ever meet. Perhaps it was the simple knowledge of who he is the son of and the well documented gentleness and spiritual quality that his father possessed, but it was striking how similar Ravi’s personality is to what I know of his father’s. Physically, the similarities in facial features were also amazing; but that, I suppose, is to be expected. To say I was somewhat "star struck" (if one can call it that) as I shook his hand would be an understatement. The mentioned qualities can reasonably be expected, but the fact that his tenor saxophone playing is so remarkably reminiscent of his father’s is what amazes me; although, for me, somewhat less so his soprano playing. As has been commented on here many times there are and have been many Coltrane disciples who play great and some who carried on the Coltrane torch and extended the Trane musical language. None have had that deep sense of "calm in the eye of the storm" quality that Trane’s playing had. Just wanted to share and thanks for the clips.

Inna, thanks for the Tony Scott clip. I like the clip. Frankly, about the most enjoyable thing that I have ever heard by Tony Scott; he is generally not my cup of tea. Interesting player whose style always shows his fascination with folk music. There is a quality in his playing reminiscent of the way that the clarinet is used in Eastern European folk music. He is often touted as a bebop clarinet player and in my opinion that is quite a stretch.

My comments are not meant to provoke or offend but to hopefully inspire interesting and friendly discussion. I think that one of the challenges in evaluating and discussing music on a thread like this is in keeping our own personal musical style and genre preferences separate and independent from evaluations about the artistic and technical merit, or as you recently stated, the "level" of the playing. You commented about the Connors clips that Ghosthouse posted and seemed to object to their "level". You then posted music by Jesse Cook and Tony Scott. What is it about the level of that music that you find superior (presumably) to that of the Connors other than the fact that you may like those styles/genres better? I don’t find anything inherently superior in either the Jesse Cook or Tony Scott clips on a technical or compositional level. Style/genre? Obviously very different and they each evoke different feelings mostly dictated by our personal likes and preferences. I would also argue that the Scott is on a lower level technically and compositionally. Jesse Cook, as you say, is a very good guitarist, and even though I am not quite sure he is, along with Paco, one of the two best I do like some of his stuff. However, that clip (as you point out) barely rises above the saccharine Flamenco flavored "New Age/World Music" thing; and, I would also argue that with the exception of Cook himself the playing is not on the same "level" of virtuosity as that on the Connors clips. Just what do you mean when you refer to "level"? I welcome your thoughts.

Not comparing; just two acoustic guitarists that I enjoy:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ahL2vE-AGSY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pi83LbDpUd0

Thanks for your response, Inna. I still don’t know what you mean by "level". Level of "class"? Seems to me that class is a very subjective thing. Are you suggesting that the playing in the Connors clips had no class? Again, style/genre preference, no? Re the mystery saxophone player on 5th and 60th:

Best saxophone playing you ever heard? Wow!

**** That’s the reason why I listen to relatively few recordings.****

Perhaps that should change? 😎

😳

O-10, that's not what I said; actually the opposite.  Imo, there would be no need to keep it private so ask here. Not that I particularly want to discuss the subject (I frankly don't care how anyone chooses to spend their money in this hobby); but if you want to ask fire away. 

Eenie, meenie, minie, mo. Catch an audiophile by his toe. If he hollers, let him go. Eenie, meenie, minie, mO(-10).....rats!

O-10, O-10, O-10...must you? I have to believe that you simply don’t see or understand how provocative and downright unfriendly you come across with some of your comments and the way that you make them. Why do you make judgments about a person’s motives or reactions without having a basis for knowing? I don’t suppose it ever crosses your mind that no one here is obligated to respond to any comment made; especially when it is not specifically directed at him and, even more importantly, has nothing to do with the subject of this thread and is instead on subjects that have proven time and again to cause nothing more than discord here. Why do you choose to believe that a person is "shrugging off" your comment or link simply because he doesn’t respond to it? Believe me, I considered it and decided it was best to not engage.

As is often the case I don’t agree with your premise. You make negative generalities about audiophiles while being one yourself (mostly in other threads) and I don’t agree with you that there aren't  any audiophiles who can afford ultra expensive equipment who also understand the technical aspects. There are. Or, even more importantly, that are able to hear that sometimes that equipment has superior sonic qualities. There are. Sure, there are some who are clueless. So what? You seem to want to pat yourself on the back for being on some sort of higher moral ground or plane of understanding. Really? You have been very open and frank about the fact that you don’t know and don’t want to know about music beyond what you consider "subjective". It seems to me that the same can be said about economics and the true impact of market forces. Have you filled your gas tank in Europe lately?