Learsfool: I understand some folks, but I am surprised that you would consider this Wagner thingy anything but silly. Has nothing to do with him being a nice person. Has to do with him being dead 50 years before the Nazis came to power. A few facts: Prior to the war, Germany was considered the most progressive and liberal nation in Europe with respect to "The Jewish Question". They prospered there like no other place. You want balant anti-semtism, try France, Poland and Russia. When the Nazis, before the war, started "mercy-killing" of German people with mental defects, the German church community protested, and they stopped it. Hitler never did anything that he felt would anger the German people. No German soldier was ever punished for refusing to commit murder or any other atrocity. Many refused to go on the massacres by gun fire, and were not sanctioned. However, there was never a lack of willing volunteers. EVERY country that was occupied by Germany, provided SS Divisions to fight with the Germans on the Eastern front. France, Belguim, Holland, Norway, Russia, Croatia,Italy, Romania, Hungary. The European mind set of that time was Communism = Judaism. And the fought to "Save" Europe. The last soldier fighting in Berlin to defend Hitler's bunker, was a Frenchman. He survived the war. By 1944, the SS was only about 50% German. The Germans had local government help, in every country, in rounding up Jews. They could not have done it without this help. The most Obscene picture from WWII. They often did this to save bullets. One would kill baby and mother. http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/RM2.N.SHOOT.WOMEN.JPGMaybe the soldier had just been fired up by a performance of "Die Walkure". What should be the take away from all this? Hitler and Wagner, didn't kill anyone. But still there are 50 million dead! Who did it? EUROPE did it!! Europe committed the Holocaust. And no one there, regrets what happened, to this day!! Cheers |
I have this one by Roscoe Mitchell. Tracks named 'Sound 1' and 'Sound 2' and two named 'Ornette', should tell you what to expect. I know this is good stuff because Stereo Review said it was, and they never steered me wrong. I just have to grow into it. It's a lot more 'accessible' today than it was when I bought it. I'm getting there! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJST92-UNVEHave several by Threadgill. Still coming to grips with him also. Very interesting clip. When you can see the music being created it does make a person appreciate it more. I had no idea these guys were still alive! I expect this sort of thing from NYC. Never considered Chicago much of a cutting edge Jazz town. I noticed it's recorded on the great Blues label, Delmark. Cheers |
While browsing my CDs today came across this CD by Quincy Jones. I love this music. I think he is awesome!! Highly intelligent and an unbeliveable talent!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF-3Ru2N8eQI know he is the greatest something, but just what, I can't answer. Hell, he even made Rap sound interesting. I got this from Wiki. High praise, but it causes my BS alarm to start quivering. Although, he was one of the players that led me to Jazz. From Wiki: "Among his awards, Jones was named by Time Magazine as one of the most influential jazz musicians of the 20th century." Could this be true? Perhaps The Frogman can enlightened us. Cheers |
Today's listen: Jackie McLean Quintet -- DYNASTY Features his son Rene. I loved this. Great Sax playing. Sort of in your face. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY02ZL3QrfoThe liner notes read like a Soap opera or a Police blotter. McLean plays with Mingus McLean gives Mingus his two week notice during a break at a gig in Cleveland. Mingus gets mad and punches McLean in the mouth McLean pulls knife and attempts to stab Mingus Someone grabs his arm and he only cuts Mingus Mingus leaves him stranded in Cleveland Mclean Pawns horn to get back to NYC Blakey asks McLean to join his band McLeans says I have no horn, it's owned by Mingus Blakey buys McLean a horn McLean leaves on tour with Blakey, did not tell Mingus Mingus comes to McLean's house banging on door McLeans wife threatens to call Police. Mingus sends telegram to McLean in Pittsburgh, on tour with Blakey, threatening to dump him in the East River. Damn!! He did say that Blakey taught him to play coherent, non-BS,. solos. Compared Blakey to a coach, and Mingus to a Drill Instructor. Said Mingus would have had even more success if he had respected his musicians. Question to The Frogman. What is a BS solo? And can you submit a clip with an example of one? I can only hope and pray that it won't be one of my favorite tunes. :) Cheers |
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******The narrower minded person has it easy to say everything, not to his liking, is BS. ********
Makes life a lot simpler. And in the final analysis, isn't this what everyone does eventually?
If you want to know what you really like, ask yourself this question. What Jazz CD / LP do I listen to, the most?
I would like for all to answer that. What album do you listen to most often?
Me? The most reviled player on this thread. "Marsalis and Clapton Play The Blues." Great playing by anyone's standard!!
Cheers |
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Just in case you missed this part. :)
A big misconception about Jazz is that you need to know something about it to enjoy it.
The truth is when someone hears music with this sizzle, crackling with suspense, and breathing like a living entity, it will stop you in your tracks. In fact, this applies to all forms of music. It’s the reason why some music grabs you and some doesn’t. Duke Ellington said there are two types of music: good and bad. It’s that simple. Jazz at its finest is like really great sex, or the best food in the world, you will want more and you damn sure wont be texting anyone in the middle of it.
Cheers |
Old and New Jazz. As Branford said, there are only so many notes. After awhile it will repeat itself to some degree. Nothing new under the sun type thingy.
Several years ago I was in San Antonio at a Best Buy store. They had a fantastic CD section, and everytime I was in town I went there. Once I bought a Multi-Disc box set by Ellington. At the checkout counter, the girl scanned it and said, "wow, that's expensive". I said, "yes it is". She looked at the CD for a moment and said, "He really must have been famous". I smiled and said, "yes he was".
Every musical genre has a beginning, reaches an apex which is followed by a slow decline. The genres carry on, but a lot of people get off the train when the music stops speaking to them. They are replaced by the young, who think the current stuff is just awesome. Just as we did in the 50s /60s. Just imagine what the swing fans thought of Trane.
There are no more people like Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Elvis, The Stones, Mozart, Bach, Goodman, Ellington, Mingus, Mahalia Jackson etc...... you get the drift. I just hope you enjoyed the ride when your prime coincided with the music's prime. That's all there is. Of course there is always a little overlap.
We can all be thankful for the recorded media we have.
And if THEY don't know who The Duke Is, then I don't know who Paterson is! So there!
Cheers |
Today's Listen: Geri Allen -- THE GATHERING Nothing irritating here. Very nice playing. Just does not seem to go anywhere. Comes very close to sound generation stuff. Everyone just playing their asses off, with seemingly no regard to what the others are playing. Hell, I was looking for the visuals. The tunes seem to end when everyone just stops. This track has more bite than most of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX7lcPL5GxURecommended for the modern crowd. If they call it Jazz, then it must be Jazz. Right? Cheers |
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Today's Listen: The 12 Berlin Cellists -- 'ROUND MIDNIGHT Great players of course. Misleading title. Not much if any Jazz here. Some interesting takes on popular tunes. Pink Panther was very good. I thought this one was the best of the lot, although "A Rap for Mozart" was good. Sort of reminded me of "A Soldier's Tale". Simon Rattle did the spoken part. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZVFV4T2cCYNice effort, but they should not leave Beethoven and company for the world of Jazz. Kenny Barron & Dave Holland -- THE ART OF CONVERSATION https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkyD8Vdnkl4This answers the question, is great Jazz being played today? Excellent CD. Aptly titled. Two Masters! Holland plays Bass like most people play guitar. Barron is just his routine brilliant self. Holland actually plays 'notes' on the bass. Dexterity comes to mind! They sound like a larger group. Ain't got it git it. Cheers |
The gurus make good points, and they should know. However, it seems as if the overall tone is that (1) 'Jazz players aren't GOOD ENOUGH to play classical, and (2) Classical music is somehow SUPERIOR to Jazz.
I beg to disagree.
I think players like Wynton and Ellington have demonstrated Jazz players can play anything at the highest level.. As far as playing together as a group or section, check out some Ellington, Goodman and Miller. They play together as well as any Classical group. They ARE playing Jazz, so the music calls for different things, but to say they CAN'T play classical? Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Can the Berlin Philharmonic play "Hog Calling Blues"? They could if it was written down. But what would it sound like? Ever hear the German Radio Bands try their hand at Jazz?
Of the two, Jazz musicians are better musicians. Because what they do is harder, and they don't get any help from a written score and / or Conductors. They are out there alone.
As the OP pointed out, you either got it or you don't. A person can learn to do all required of Classical players, by hard work and practice. In Jazz it takes hard work, practice AND that certain something within the person
Jazz is Jazz, and Classical is Classical, and Never The Twain Shall Meet. The efforts of MJQ and others, Notwithstanding. And as I said before, Thank God for both, and for the differences.
Cheers
BTW, my post of the Berlin Cellists, which demonstates certain points of this disccussion was completely ignored.
OP, how long will I have to suffer these indignities???
Cheers |
Not being contrary just for the sake of it. I will try one more time.
We are talking about Professional players in both genres. Players at the top of their game. I will assume that the Classical players went thru some sort of selection process, that determined that the player was good enough to play in a top tier orchestra.
When they prepare for a performance of, say LvB's 5th, all the players have seen the score before, and have played the music before, at every stage of their career. The conductor does not have to teach or show the players how to play the music.
He will go thru the music and point out the points in the score where he wants certain things. This is his interpretation. The players then make notes on the score. He Assumes they can read the music and play it.
All they have to do is play whats on the paper, taking in consideration the conductor's wishes.
If they can't do that, they are not going to part of an orchestra in the first place.
So, they have been playing forever, he has had teachers at every step of his development, they have been playing the same music (the standard repertoire) that's been around for hundreds of years, the conductors guides them as what he wants in certain passages, and there are over 99 other people playing with him/her. Those 100+ players make wonderful music.
The Jazz Player? I am speaking of small group, not big band.
His entire career and his degree of success depends solely on how the public, the audience, sees and hears him. He must connect. No conductor to guide him or suggest how to play certain passages. No 100+ players to shield him. Can't make it playing just 'standards'. When he solos, he is out there alone. Does not receive a salary, no union, no public financial support, He creates the music as he plays it. He does not create, he does not eat.
Those two to Five players, small group, make music that is downright amazing given the number of players involved. Amazing!! My latest CD is proof of that. Kenny Barron and Dave Holland. Just Two players, making magic.
And if all that weren't enough, the genre is under attack by media and critic backed noise makers.
In my universe, that makes the Jazz players better. It is truly, a survival of fittest situation.
Cheers
BTW, both gurus said that the horn players in the French group (water/fireworks thingy) at The BBC Proms, were out of tune!! Huh??? How can that be?
I have read several reviews where the Berliners and Karajan were accused of being out of tune!! WTF!!!
Maybe these folks are not as "Highly Proficient" and "Masters of their instruments" as one might think.
I soldier on, because I know I am being tested.
Cheers |
O-10:
*****Bobby Timmons was probably the least appreciated and most under rated musician in all of jazz.*****
He seems to have been one of those guys that are brilliant wrtiters / composers, but their work becomes well know through the performances of other people. Sort of like Willie Dixon in Blues.
I always thought 'dat there', was an Oscar Brown Jr composition. And I assumed 'Dis here' was by Cannonball..
Btw, I don't have anything by Timmons as leader. In Nica's book, he said he wanted money and a nice house. With these three compositions, alone, he should have obtained both. I hope he did.
Give me recommendations for Timmons on CD. A few days ago I received your recommendation of Roland Kirk, "The Return of the 5000 lb Man". Love it.
Cheers |
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I submit this as fodder for discussion.. No one is saying it's accurate, let along definitive. Just this guy's opinion. https://numeralnine.wordpress.com/2013/11/23/twenty-perfect-jazz-albums-of-the-1970s/But, to me, it does reinforce my belief that the 70 / 80s were a sterile period for Jazz. Maybe it's just that it was in a period of transistion. Maybe it's something as simple as the deterioration of the cover art. Where the hell were the classic Blue Note covers. I know it sounds silly, but to me it was a different, and not better, era than the beginning(Nawlins) thru the 60's. The entire scene just had a different feel to my senses. Like, where did everyone go?? Someone said Jazz died in 1959. It did not die, but what came later, gradually evolved into something very different. Better or worst? Your call. They say, 1939 was Hollywood's greatest year. Looking back, I can readily see that. And remember 1939 was pre blockbuster era. Little to no special effects. No star wars etc.... Twenty years later, some say Jazz had it's greatest year. And looking back, I can readily see that also. Just one non-caring Frenchman's opinion. Cheers |
*****Rok, "What is it you agree about Hancock"? I was into "fusion" at that time, consequently I have no contradictions; Herbie's music at that time was most distinctly "fusion". Are you saying you liked some fusion, but didn't like other "fusion"?******
I am saying that Hancock is a lot more, than his dabble in 'Fusion'. The man is a very accomplished musician. Check out his output. Some of his tunes are now standards. He Teaches at UCLA. And yes, I like SOME of almost everything. But we are forced to speak inn generalities. Fusion was nonsense, with a few nice tunes here and there.
I have no use for Rock, but I do like some of Rod Stewart. I have a complilation of Rock from the 80's. All hits. I like that. Could I listen to a Rock LP from start to finish? No!
Since I dislike Rock, why would I like Rock infected Jazz. I feel silly using the words Rock and Jazz together.
Rock destoryed Rock & Roll, a young and fun music, and came close to destorying Jazz. Just a bunch of Drug crazed noise makers. And the entire music establisment just looked on, admiring the emperor's new clothes. $$$$???? Even made up 'catergories' at the Grammys, so they could win something.
Lots of folks tried to make a living off 'Fusion', Hancock was not one of those. He didn't have to, he could play Jazz. He did experiment with Rock and Classical integration into Jazz. Talented folks do that sort of thing. Explore. And remember, he did play with pre-Sinbad Miles.
BTW, there is much more Jazz in Blue-Grass than there is in Rock. That would be an interesting "Fusion".
Cheers |
The point of my 'ridiculous' comparisons is to highlight and demonstrate the differences between Traditional Jazz Players, and the so-called 'Fusion' crowd. Playing the same music, so as to easier ID the differences, if any.
I noticed you didn't comment of any of them. Which is your modus operandi, when your position is untendable. Then of course, comes the name calling. But you still didn't comment.
This has nothing to do with my favorite music. It has to do with the insistent effort on this thread to equate all this "Fusion" nonsense, with Jazz.
I was giving everyone an easy oppourtunity to hear for themselves. To make their own judgements. If you think the Parker and Pastorious performances were about equal, or Pastorious' was better, then say so.
*****So, tell you what, you're right, we are all idiots.*****
Well, I would not say ALL, are idiots.. Because Acman3 and the OP have not weighed in yet.
BTW, the 'thrust' of this discussion is 'Fusion', and the people who play it. And how it is not real Jazz. And since the 70's was full of this stuff, it's right on topic. I also noticed you declined to give your definition of 'Fusion'.
Cheers |
The Frogman:
Buster Williams Clip:
Sobresaliente!!! So nice to hear what is possible to do with Violin in Jazz. Different from the usual French / Gypsy stuff.
And Williams played REAL notes on Bass. Sort of reminded me of my recent CD of Dave Holland and Kenny Barron,. "The Art Of Conversation". Holland played real notes also. I would think that would be very difficult to do.
The music was engaging and they played so well together. None of that everyone off doing his own thing. And you could tell the bass was the leader even if you didn't know Williams. And his playing was so subtle and delicate.
I wish I could have played it on my main rig. My computer speakers did not do it justice. Out of print also.:(
I really enjoyed it. I played it twice.
Alex: Thanks for the Clip
Cheers |
I warned you people. You can't say I didn't warn you!! I said, "if we keep going on like we're going, we will sooner or later, piss off Chazro":. Now, look what you have done! There will be hell to pay for this!!
Acman3: You didn't miss much. The clip we discussed had Hitler on Piano, Himmler on Bass and Goering on drums. They played 'OstFront Blues'.
But I did learn something from the diatribe. Three more Jazz types to add to my list.
1. European Jazz
2. Modern Jazz
3. Nazi Jazz
I think European-Jazz and Nazi-Jazz, are one and the same.
Cheers |
{A person cannot make a 'contribution' to Jazz, with something that you cannot define as Jazz.}
****We are talking about what led to the birth of what would be one known as jazz; and, as such, the contribution of the European classical tradition to jazz is huge.****
You seem to write a lot better than you can comprehend. I was responding to O-10's statements about how 'contributions' have changed the music beyond recognition. Today! Current music scene! Was not talking about the origin of the music.
[But I did not 'hear' the boogie woogie.]
***Jeremy Denk heard it. I heard it; loud and clear. Once again, how does the fact that a person can't hear it invalidate the fact that many others can? What is the most likely scenario: that the many that can are delusional; or, that the one that can't, simply....well....can't?***
I said I could not hear it. How did you jump to the conclusion that I thought that Invalidates any other person's opinion or ability? You have toooo much 'audiophile' in you.
You always jump to conclusions to satisfy your preconceived notions of other people. Ask 1000 people if they can hear boogie woogie, how many would answer, "yes, I can hear it"? Think about it. It's a Beethoven Sonata!!
You need to read the OP's original post. The purpose / intent of the thread.
Cheers |
Learsfool:
I have cooled off, so I won't answer your BS post point for point. I never feel good after doing things like that. Let's just say:
It appears as if you are also a Strawman Specialist. Most of your rant is pure non-sense. And very disrespectful to the OP.
O-10 has never been anything less than courteous in his dealings with you. In fact, I always thought he gave you and the Frogman too much credit. Deferred to you too much. He also bent over backwards to keep you two involved in the thread.
You may know music, but you have no manners.
****You will no doubt respond by saying that this is your thread, which it is.*****
When has the OP ever used "it's my thread" in the sense that you just used it? Never! But now, it's 'no doubt' he will.
****But you must understand that no one with any knowledge of the language of music whatsoever is going to listen to you seriously anymore,*****
Is this a joke. Are you speaking of folks on Audiogon? People on this site have no real knowledge of anything, music included!!! Do you read the posts and the topics on this forum?? Ignorance rules!!! Which is one of the reasons for the problems on Aficionados. There was the constant effort to make it an Audiophile thread.
So now you and The Frogman are gone. Do we go into mourning? Or (my choice), Just act as if you were never here. Hell, Some people might just say, Good Riddance? I won't, but some might.
Cheers
BTW, when you first heard the Beedthoven Sonata in question, did you think, Boogie Woogie?? I'm sure you did. |
****You guys kill me.****
If only this were true.
****I have followed this thread with interest for some time **
Then, stop following it.. Problem solved.
**In my opinion, Frogman's posts have been a model of clarity ***
Is this opinion based on facts?
**nstead of the confused jumping around with opinions that have little basis in fact done by Rok2id and Orpheus***
Are you accusing the OP of a thread of being 'confused', as to it's direction?
**You guys think new jazz is not worth talking about and now you move on to New Age!?***
We think new Jazz is not worth talking about, and the OP can move on to whatever he wishes. What's your point?
**I don't think the reason for the arguments is just a difference of opinion about music but a difference in level of intellect.***
Believe me when I say, you don't have a clue as to what the arguments on this thread are really about. However, feel free to raise the intellectual level with posts of your own. We won't hold your first one against you.
**Rok2id, your sarcasm and ridiculous attempts at "reviews" and playlists are almost embarrasing to read. **
Then, don't read them. BTW, I don't pretend to 'review' anything. 'Today's listen' means, I have this CD, and I listened to it today. I always say a few words and provide a clip of the music so others can judge for themselves. This is the INTENT of this thread.
***You mention Levinson and Cello as if it's a new discovery that you are trying to enlighten with without realizing that it's common knowledge.***
I mentioned the Levison thingy because it took up so much space in the notes. I said I have never heard of it. How do you conclude that, I think I am reporting 'breaking news'? I think the recording date was 1995. Another 'strawman' specialist? Your 'audiophile' traits are showing. :)
***I completely understand Frogman's frustration and think that it's a shame if he stops posting because his posts have been some of the best reading on this forum. ****
Is this an opinion or a fact? I, along with all music/Jazz lovers, look forward to reading YOUR contributions on Frogman's thread.
***This thread could have been something special instead some of you guys keep it at just music masturbation.****
WTF is music masturbation?? hahahhaha You so witty.
Lastly, In my 'opinion', the OP has forgotten more about Jazz, than The Frogman will ever know. I am Speaking of Jazz-Jazz, not noise-Jazz.
I look forward to your contributions. I know they will be of an Intellect-Raising quality.
Cheers
Just a thought: Could this be The Frogman posting under a different name???
hahahahahaha
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Todays' Listen: Charles Mingus -- TOWN HALL CONCERT Only two tracks, 'So Long Eric' and 'Praying With Eric'. Total playing Time 45 minutes. Mingus is one of the few artists that can maintain a listeners interest in tunes of 27 and 17 minutes in duration. Both were great. Dolphy's Flute and Bass Clarinet playing was just awesome on 'praying with eric'. Some consider Mingus' music to be 'out there', but the rhythm section is never 'out there'. They always keep it all coherent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP2XFKGKlAwThe liner notes consist of a scathing attack, by Mingus, on greed and corruption in the music recording business. Mingus does not minch words. Very angry young man. I wonder if any of these guys ever made the money they should have made. This is one of the CDs in the Mingus Mosaic box set. Yeah, it's worth $119. Got my New speakers today. :) Cheers |
To all concerned:
Jazz for Aficionados: The beginning:
The OP wrote in his initial post:
*****I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections******
(( He then reviewed the Art Blakey Album, "Moanin' ))
then he closed with this:
****While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.******
Now, after reading that, I don't see a mandate, or a request, or a demand, or a desire, or an expectation, for The Frogman, or anyone else, to Teach anyone, anything, about Jazz.
Now that the intent of this thread has been stated, I will
address, later this afternoon, the arrogant attitude, and abusive language that are common themes of most posts by you and the Frogman. I have finally had enough of it. Being a Southerner, it takes a lot to get me riled. But you have.
Cheers |
O-10:
The first clip, Mary Lou's Mass was good. The second clip was flimed with a fixed camera from a long distnace. Not nearly as effective.
However, I must admit that I am not a fan of Modern Dance, esp in the absence of the Librettro. As usual, I am old School. 'Swan Lake' and 'The Nutcracker' are just about the limits of my dance appreciation.
I did notice that Mary Lou made several references to God and religion in Nica's book. Of course a lot of the other players did also. Different era I guess.
I did not get a chance to listen to Mary Lou or anyone else today. My Polks have failed. :( I know, I know, it's impossible to believe. But you can't say Polk is not high-end now. Beautiful product, very expensive, great sound and with a MTBF of about 20 minutes.
I am now waiting on a replacement tweeter, and magnetic grill. back in the lo-fi days, the stuff lasted forever.
I did get a chance to listen to some of' Dinah Jams'. Sounds like a fun disc. I recognized Maynard right away on 'Summertime'. No one else can play that high and that loud.
Dinah is not really a Jazz singer, but she does have a very unique voice. One of her most memorable lines to me, was from a CD with Brook Benton, when she says, as only she can, "one more time Brook". :) Love it.
Will be back in the net tomorrow. Will bring the Lsi15's back out.
Cheers |
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*****They gave this 4 out of 5 stars on both sonics and performance, so it's got to be hot. Let's go for "Sweet Loraine"*****
****Didn't find "Morphoses" on "you tube", this is the best I could do*******
I think enthusiastic reviews like the two above, are as a result of low expectations.
Sort of like this:
You ask a Math teacher, "whats 30 divided by 3? The teacher responds, errr duhhhh, "10" Ok, so what's the big deal? There is none. What would you expect.
You now go to the Zoo and ask a hyena the same question. The hyena responds with "10". Holy Shit!!!!!! Now this is a huge deal!!!! The biggest deal in the history of mankind!!!!
Even if the hyena had said "4". hahahahahahaha
Same with these young folks playing Jazz. You are so used to noise, and you expect noise, so that anything they play, that even slightly resembles Jazz, makes people overreact.
It's understandable.
Both clips were ok. Again nothing special. Nothing I would buy.
Cheers |
Today's Listen: Thelonious Monk -- LIVE AT THE JAZZ WORKSHOP (complete) Monk is in fine form. This could just as easy have been, Charlie Rouse at the Jazz Workshop. A very under recognized player. I think that's often true when a player plays with a legend. Sort of like McCoy with Coltrane. 2-CD set with two problems. First there are 7 tunes that appear on both CD. 'Epistrophy' is played three times. That seems always to be a problem with Monk. Listening to either of the CDs is fine, but if you listen to both at the same session, the sense of sameness prevails.. The second problem is the noise, chatter, from the audience. It's not in support of, or in reaction to the music, it's just people talking as if the man is not even playing. Another great performance 'wasted' on idiots. Happens a lot in Jazz. Other than the chatter, the sound is fine. Closely miked. The playing is great. All his 'Hits' are here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrDLxJWKcZk&list=PLrR6QlNIqj5m3bTtyAp8gnaKxjmkdE_BsListen to this today also. Sounded so awesome had to post it. Was it Peabo or my Polks? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0XMn0U9b2YCheers |
Today's Listen: Oscar Peterson + Harry Edison + Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson Slow drag Indeed!! Cleanhead can not only sing the blues, but can play a little alto as well.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCcUUtSlAAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCX7oHbyNVU The title should have included ' + Joe Pass '. He is his usual brilliant self throughout. Oscar is always very good, but when his is 'with' anyone else, esp Trumpet players, it's rises to another level. Nice Cover Photo. Cheers |
O-10:
****Many times when a thread loses people, they don't come back. I had that feeling when they were dragging me into all that totally unnecessary, never ending bickering, that we would lose people on this thread, and we did; maybe they'll come back****
Keep in mind that Music threads are a distinct minority on this site. Jazz is a minority within that minority. Traditioanal / Classic Jazz (Jazz-Jazz) is a minority within that minority.
There aren't that many people here who are interested in Music, fewer still in "Jazz' and even fewer in Jazz-Jazz.
They won't come back because they were not that interested in the beginning. I suspect that when Monk or Mingus were mentioned, it was the same to them, as it is to me, when they mentioned their favorites. Their minds went blank.
Some were 'Audiophiles', who thought all opinions on Jazz should be treated as equal. Like their opinions on gear. I.E., there is no right or wrong, no good or bad, no great or mundane. No noise at all. Whatever a person says or plays, must be accepted as valid.
I will never break faith with the people who created this wonderful music. They were victimized, cheated and disrepected, while they lived. I will not stand by and watch their legacy be stolen. At least not without speaking out and defending their wonderful and unique contribution to the world..
Until you are prepared to kowtow to the lost posters, they won't be back.
Cheers |
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O-10:
****I failed to understand your last post****
What makes you think I understand it? Audiogon does not require that posters understand their own posts. If they did, there would be a lot fewer posts.
I think I was trying to say the Tiny Desk series tends to show artists in their natural state. No props, minimum costumes and stage production, and all that. Up close and personal. Sort of more suited to her type music. Or you could say, minimum influence of you Infidels. Or thoughts to that effect. :)
The word " ar - ree - bee. Zap Mama says that a lot. I will have to find out what it means.
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I did not cheat, but when I clicked on the clip from O-10 to listen, his name was right there. Very bad album photo. Surely they could have found a better photo of Manhattan.
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The Frogman: Excellent Posts on Modal Jazz. I may have to take a class at the local community college. I hope you know how much we appreciate the time and effort you take to be thorough and accurate. I did some reading and found a site with a list of modal tunes by many different people. I noticed there were no 'Standards' listed. Which leads me to what may be a stupid question. Can be-bop tunes be played using the modal concept, and can modal tunes be played as be-bop. i.e., can we be-bop Maiden Voyage and Modal Tunisia? If this is stupid, just act as if O-10 asked the question. Everything you ever wanted to know, and more, about Miles, Coltrane, Evans and modal. Nice short history. http://www.wwnorton.com/college/music/jazz/ch/14/outline.aspxCheers |
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Folks, this is one of the greatest tunes in the history of jazz.*****
From one of the greatest Jazz albums in the history of Jazz. Funny, this and 'Antibes' never get mentioned in the 'debate' over greatest Jazz album of all time. Also 'Ellington at Newport'.
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O-10:
Nice insights into Miles and his friends and family. He may have been just a normal guy, but he presented one of the coolest images ever of a Jazz player.
Funny how you didn't know Miles, but you were tight with his Aunt. :)
Thanks for the interesting post.
Cheers |
Never did care for Miami Vice. Just a little too intense for my tastes.
When you hear Miami, you think beach, bikinis and Babes. Too much of this show was shot at night, and you saw very little of Miami. I guess they had to shoot it in the more deserted parts of the city in order to be able to drive the car they way they did.
The Music was spot on, considering the mood/tone of the show. My taste in crime runs more towards 'Columbo' and 'Murder She Wrote'.
In the earlyu 70's I was in Germany making the world safe for Corporate America, ooops, I mean, making the world safe for democracy.
I left Atlanta in 1966, never more to return. The Military offered the entire wo |
Never did care for Miami Vice. Just a little too intense for my tastes.
When you hear Miami, you think beach, bikinis and Babes. Too much of this show was shot at night, and you saw very little of Miami. I guess they had to shoot it in the more deserted parts of the city in order to be able to drive the car they way they did.
The Music was spot on, considering the mood/tone of the show. My taste in crime runs more towards 'Columbo' and 'Murder She Wrote'.
In the earlyu 70's I was in Germany making the world safe for Corporate America, ooops, I mean, making the world safe for democracy. Sorry.
I left Atlanta in 1966, never more to return. The Military offered the entire world. Atlanta was a pretty nice place then. Don't know about now.
Cheers |
Sorry for the double post. The 2nd one is the correct one. |
O-10: Very nice Silver. Did he ever play a bad tune? I let the computer/youtube run, and it seems like it played Silver all day. Including this tune. Very nice tune considering his outfit. Sort of like Sinbad Miles in appearance, but the music is better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6o6DhBLn_s&list=RDr2A-xMlobhQ&index=3 Today I received "Bird's Best Bop on Verve" and The George Russell "Seven Classic Albums". Will report later. Cheers |
BIRD'S BEST BOP on Verve
Outstanding!!! The best I have ever heard from Bird. I need to make it a point to listen and read more about Parker. For some reason I don't have a clear picture of Bird or Dizzy.
The line up includes anyone who is anyone. Even Miles.
Fascinating and often funny notes by Phil Woods. The story where Bird asked Woods "have you eaten today", gives us a peek into the real world of being a Jazz musician.
The Cd is in mono, which is not a criticism. Excellent sound quality. It passed a major test with me, I listened to the entire CD non-stop, twice!! I felt I got a sense of why this music was 'new'. It really draws you in.
Thanks for the recommendation. |
Houston Person, one of my favorites. I love him on this CD. Glad to see it's finally on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiE2ZPEp0pYEveryone should own this CD. Check out the B3! No muffled sounds here. Listen at 9:21 on "what's Going on" If you don't just shout YES!!! Git outta Jazz!! Every track awesome! Cheers |
George Russell -- SEVEN CLASSIC ALBUMS
Muli-CD package. Four Discs. Sound quality excellent on all discs. Same level of sound quality as the "100 Greatest Jazz Tunes of the 1950's".
The music is mostly big band. All arrangements by George Russell. Disc #1 is the most straight ahead of the discs. The players are mainstream greats. Art Farmer and Doc Severinson on trumpet. Also includes Coltrane and Evans. Vocals by Jon Hendricks.
I liked the first disc. Every time Hendricks said "New York, New York" I would say "the Biggggggggg Apple". :) Remember the Last Poets?
The other three disc are more 'avant-garde or experimental or modern. Not the worst I have heard. It does not irritate, just not my favorite stuff. You and Acman3 might like it. You guys are way more 'progressive' than I am.
The Trumpet is now Don Ellis. hmmmmmmm. Even Eric Dolphy makes an appearance. I was not that familiar with the groups playing on the last three disc. Interesting take on "You are my Sunshine" on the last disc.
If you like the 'modern' stuff, you might like George Russell.
I also just received "Gene Harris and The Three Sounds at the IT Club". Much more my style.
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*****I bought that at the BX on Scott AFB in 1960. My favorite cuts are "Sandra's Blues", and "Indians Blues"; that's as good as it gets.*****
Are you saying you purchased this album, 55 years before I did? Good Grief! :) I now understand why so much of the stuff I like, you find boring. You were there long before me.
Indian and Sandra are my favorites also.
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Milt Hinton: Another great from the State of Mississippi. Where would music in this country be without Mississippi? Guess we would all be jamming and dancing to the Beer Barrel Polka.
Nice clip. Nice Joke about the cemetary. That's one reason I try to stay away from those places.
You are correct about great music never aging. Great Art never ages. Some folks seem to think music is like Science & Technology, the newer the better. Wrong answer. Music is Art.
The Mona Lisa, LvB's 9th, West End Blues etc...... will be great forever! And as they say, that's a long, long time.
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