@acman3,
Woe! Talk about improvisation...I wonder if Hermeto Pascoal ever did a gig with Sun Ra?
The Strange World Of… Hermeto Pascoal ’The Sorcerer’
’In terms of his influence on other musicians, most notably those he worked with directly, his unwavering dedication to a life of music and the uniqueness of his artistic vision, Hermeto Pascoal is almost without peer. It would not be an injustice to either musician, to compare him to Sun Ra.’
’The chickens’ clucking sounds remarkably like a wah-wah guitar, before the whole thing explodes into the kind of wild, sculpted cacophony usually considered the preserve of Sun Ra.’
’The same could equally be said of the occasional comparisons to Zappa elsewhere in Pascoal’s music.’
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@stuartk, @mahgister and @audio-b-dog,
Yeah the band Caldera didn’t get hardly any promotion by the record company Capital even though they had some monster producers such as Wayne Henderson and Larry Dunn of Earth Wind & Fire.
And what little I did listen to of Neotropical Nocturnes now I see where the Flamenco style guitar playing comes from. I’m going to take some time this week and really listen to it some more. @stuartk, your Spanish is impeccable, I didn't even know you could use a translator in audiogon. Thanks for the rip Stu.
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I didn’t say you used a translator, I very simply said ’your Spanish is impeccable’. Can’t be more descriptive than that. I used the translator. Glad you liked her! I have always had a affinity towards MPB, even more so than Bossa Nova. I like to call it, Brazilian FM! You, correction, I can listen to it all day, especially in Brazil.
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@audio-b-dog,
The word "nega" in Portuguese is a pejorative to black women not only in Brazil but in other countries as well so be very careful when singing it and speaking it. Just saying.
’In Portuguese, "nega" is a term of endearment, often used informally and playfully, especially between romantic partners or close friends. It can be translated as "black woman" or "dark-skinned woman," but its usage is more nuanced than a simple literal translation. It’s often used like "honey" or "sweetheart" and can be an affectionate nickname, particularly in Brazil, according to Wikipedia.
However while "nega" can be used by anyone, it is important to note that it can be considered offensive and derogatory if used by someone outside of the relationship or by someone who is not of African descent, as it can be associated with racial slurs. The term "negra" is the standard feminine form of the word "negro," which means "black".
Here’s a breakdown: Literal meaning: "Nega" literally means "black woman" or "dark-skinned woman" in Portuguese. Usage: It is often used as a term of endearment, similar to "honey" or "sweetheart."
Context: It is more common among romantic partners or close friends in Brazil. However, there is potential for offense: Can be offensive if used by someone outside the relationship or by someone not of African descent.
So the Portuguese word "nega" is directly correlated to the word "negra" and or "nigga" in english slang. So be very careful when using that word. If you choose to do so because the usage of that word can and could get your ass kicked.’
- "Negra": These are the standard Portuguese words for a black woman, respectively. However sometimes the word "Preta" is used
- "Nega" as a diminutive: "Nega" is a shortened, more informal version of these words.
- Context matters: While often used as a term of endearment, the potential for misinterpretation is there.
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I understand "Nêga De Obaluaê" is a phrase associated with the Afro-Brazilian religions of Candomblé, Yoruba, Umbanda, and often refers to a woman associated with the deity Orixá Obaluaê but this is and we are in the US in 2025 not 1975 in Bahia, Brazil.
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@audio-b-dog,
I know you had no idea and no worries at all with you and I, we’re cool. But you say this is ’interesting’? Not in the least. About the song, lol! Hell no! I don’t and didn’t like it and it will not be played in my home.
Although I wouldn’t call the word ’colloquial’ as colloquial to me anyway are words used in ’ordinary or familiar conversation’ with each other.
Are the words Nega, Nego, Negão and Neguinho still being used in Brazil in conversation? Yes.
’The reason it’s so widespread in Brazil also has to do with the Brazilian denial of its own racism, which you’ll still find. People tend to excuse it as “we’re all friends, it’s not racist!” But usually those people are white (so am I, btw, full disclosure). I’m very mindful of certain terms in Portuguese nowadays. I recommend the same.’
I probably wrote and put to much in my ’deatribe’ and didn’t mean to bring such a terse viceral conversation to this thread, but I was ’triggered’ as they say.
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@stuartk, @audio-b-dog,
in the late 60’s, 70’s there was an intensified interest in spirituality among musicians, Jazz and otherwise.
R. Thompson, P. Townshend: Sufism.
Beatles: Yoga (TM)
Santana, J. McLaughlin: Yoga
W. Shorter, H. Hancock, S. Cowell and many more: Buddhism
McCoy Tyner and others: Islam
Some, like Coltrane, seemed not to adhere to any single path.
You might say spirituality was "in the air" in that era. It certainly affected me and a number of my friends in high school.
I recall opening the gatefold to Caravanserai and encountering a quote by Paramahansa Yogananda before I’d even become aware of his famous autobiography. And of course Mahavishnu Orchestra album and tune titles were an expression of the same. Spiritual themes were common in the music of The Incredible String Band, G. Harrison, Cat Stevens, , the Who, Donovan, etc. It wasn’t until a few years later that I got into Jazz and started noticing this same trend. I guess "My Goals Beyond" was probably the first for me, after Mahavishnu.
I couldn’t have written it any better myself. It was Mike Shrieve the original Santana drummer who introduced Carlos to Coletrane, and the rest is history. I have the Caravanserai lp as well and also the Carlos Santana · Mahavishnu John McLaughlin - Love Devotion Surrender lp .
Check out the roughly made Beatles documentary of their experiences with the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who developed TM.
Many years ago I had an opportunity to become part of a medical study at Morehouse College of Medicine to take TM, totally free and all they wanted to do was monitor my blood pressure and see if TM would lower your blood pressure. It was one of the best classes I’d ever had the opportunity to take.
By the time I was 18 I had mastered about 10 Hatha Yoga Asanas (poses/stretches). But that was a LONG time ago...
Lonnie Liston Smith · The Cosmic Echoes - Meditations 1976
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@audio-b-dog,
The Creator Has A Master Plan · Pharoah Sanders - Karma. This is nice stuff. Thanks. The musician Lonnie Liston Smith has a hauntingly similar style of playing .
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+1 @audio-b-dog,
Esperanza Spalding is SPECIAL indeed. Although she doesn't think so, I think she is in a class - all her own.
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@curiousjim,
Yes! Christian Scott/Chief (Xian aTunde) Adjuah to me anyway, is a so called ’young lion’ as is Christian McBride. Or am I missing something here?
Me thinks Esperanza Spalding is a much more, far more diversified bassist than Christian McBride (will ever be...). She sings, writes, produces, is a band leader, can put her double bass down and pick up an electric bass and jam her ass off, completely and utterly more dynamic, can do a one man (woman) show, fly to Rio de Janeiro and produce/sit in, lead the band - with Milton Nascimento, sing in perfect Portuguese while she’s playing the double bass and she’s younger than both Chief Adjuah and Christian McBride. At her age, she’s just starting to feel some blues. She just has more in her ’tool kit’, so to speak.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/jazz-for-aficionados/post?highlight=Esperanza%2BSpalding&postid=2717403#2717403
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Hermeto Pascoal and Quarteto Novo - ’Brazilian Octopus’ w/ Gamboa, Théo, Lobo, - Live in black and white film
Brazilian Octopus - Brazilian Octopus - 1969 (Full Album) Turn this up, very loud.
Músicos:
Hermeto Pascoal (flauta)
Lanny Gordin (guitarra)
Olmir Stocker "Alemão" (guitarra)
Aparecido Bianchi (piano, órgão)
Carlos Alberto de Alcântara Pereira (flauta, saxofone)
João Carlos Pegoraro (vibrafone)
Nilson Matta (baixo)
Douglas de Oliveira (bateria)
Músicas:
01 - Gamboa (Ciro Pereira/Mário Albanese)
02 - Rhodosando (Hermeto Pascoal)
03 - Canção latina Olmir Stocker/Vitor Martins)
04 - Pavane (Octopus B./Gabriel Fauré )
05 - Como Borboletas (A. Popp/P. Cour)
06 - Momento B / 8 (B. Octopus/Rogério Duprat)
07 - Summerhill (João C. Pegoraro)
08 - Gosto de Ser Como sou (Ciro Pereira/Mário Albanese )
09 - Chayê (Hermeto Pascoal)
10 - Canção de Fim de Tarde (Thereza Souza/Walter Santos)
11 - O Pássaro (Alexander Gordin)
12 - Casa forte (Edu Lobo)
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@audio-b-dog
The Brazilian Samba Dance:
Samba de Roda is the precursor of Samba originating in the Recôncavo region of Bahia, Brazil, during the 17th century. It’s a cultural tradition combining music, dance, and poetry, with roots in the dances and traditions of African slaves in the area according to UNESCO. The term "Recôncavo" refers to the coastal area surrounding the Bay of Todos os Santos.
African Roots:
Samba’s origins can be traced back to the West African traditions brought to Brazil by enslaved people, particularly from Angola and the Congo.
Bahia as a Birthplace: .
The northeastern state of Bahia, where many enslaved Africans were initially brought, became a fertile ground for the development of various samba-related rhythms and dances.
Samba de Roda: .
A crucial precursor to samba was the samba de roda, a circle dance performed in Bahia, which was recognized by UNESCO as a Heritage of Humanity.
Urban Evolution in Rio de Janeiro: .
While originating in Bahia, samba became a prominent urban musical expression in Rio de Janeiro, the then-capital of Brazil, where it further developed into the genre we know today.
Symbol of Brazilian Identity: .
Samba’s infectious rhythm and cultural significance have solidified its place as a symbol of Brazilian national identity and a key element of the Brazilian Carnival.
This is a video given/shared with me almost 20 years ago from Randy Roberts:
Sparrow Roberts
Samba de Roda: Samba Chula from Sao Braz in Bahia, Brazil - John of the Ox and Aluminum Samba de Roda live, ’In the palm of your hand’.
The Brazilian Worldwide Matrix: https://www.matrixonline.net
'In the village of São Braz, Bahia, Brazil. A clip from Jorge Pacoa’s documentary, "Samba de Roda na Palma da Mão". For much more:
THE BRAZILIAN Worldwide Matrix — https://www.matrixonline.net — the platform that does what no one else does — connects the vast Brazilian creativity — musicians, writers, filmmakers, visual artists, choreographers and dancers... — from the famous to the unknown genius — to the entire world.'
Hope this helps.
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@audio-b-dog,
I’ve never heard of Fado music in Brazil? Maybe I’m wrong? In Portugal yes. I’m not familiar with Maria Rita?
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@curiousjim
Lol! Good on yah! Not only am I an album head, but I’m a bass head too. I’ve been a bass head ever since my big baby sister brought home her first James Brown 45’s, and as she got older, albums. As my parents had a ’stereo console’. And of course James Jamerson of Motown too. It also helped that as a kid in music class I picked up the drums. Ahh, those days in the 5th grade of being in a garage band! Although I gotta say, I’m also a big Ray Brown and Ron Carter fan too.
@stuartk
I saw SC back in ’85 and by then he had a bunch of his own albums out. It was at the Fox Theater in Atlanta and the country at the time was going through some massive snow storms and he made it to the show but his band got snowed in at the airport and he showed up with an old ’stage’ wooden 4 legged round seat stool, an amp, a mic and a cigar and played solo for at least 45 minutes to an hour an jammed so hard he almost tore the place down! Even though he is a thumper, I’ve often admired his melodic side the most. Case in point here: Stanley Clarke "Lisa" Passenger 57 from the 1992 album - Passenger 57 The way he plays the piccolo bass is simply unmatched.
This is the song that got me really getting into SC: Stanley Clarke - Journey To Love - Silly Putty 1975 along with this Jeff Beck ’guesting’ tune entitled Stanley Clarke - Journey to Love - Journey to Love 1975 on the same album.
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@audio-b-dog @stuartk @acman3,
Guys, I can’t thank you enough. Chick Corea · Return To Forever · Light As A Feather 1973, Stanley Clarke · Children Of Forever 1973 and a host of Flora Purim albums got past me back then in the day as I was sooo much into the ’FONK’.
You know, with RTF’s more commercial No Mystery and Where Have I known you Before and with some of Airto’s CTI albums I was more into, even with Flora on those Airto’s albums too. I’ve got some ’new’, nice, fantastic, easy listening music catchin up to do..
As legend has it, Chick told Stanley he better learn how to play the electric bass or he'd have to get another bassist. Stanley was a 'purist' and only played acoustic basses at the time. Interesting.
Side note, did you know in Portuguese Flora ’Purim’ is pronounced Flora ’Pureen’. The letter m is pronounced the same way we pronounce the letter n in English.
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@audio-b-dog @stuartk,
I have 2 albums by Joe Farrell, Joe Farrell / Outback CTI 72’ & Joe Farrell / Upon This Rock CTI 74’
@audio-b-dog
I knew nothing of Angelique Kidjo. I’ve lately been checking out Fela Kunti. And what little I know about her, thanks to your introduction, I think she’s in his league. But that's just me.
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@stuartk
Apparently so...I missed another album I have that he’s on.
The Jeff Lorber Fusion Guest Artists: Chick Corea & Joe Farrell – Soft Space - Inner City Records 1978
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@stuartk,
Bravo! This is for the Flora (Purim) and Airto Moreira Live, I’ve not had a chance to go through all the Righteous Posts you cool ass folks have post here, so please, keep em’ coming.
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@stuartk @mahgister
In 1970, when this song was first released, I was 14. I don’t think I could’ve related to the sentiment or handled the emotional intensity at that age.
What? Sure you could’ve. You didn’t get your heart broken when you were a freshman in highschool like so many of us did? It was and is a part of growing up and life. The love songs I listened to in highschool and tugged at my heart then are still some of my favorite love songs to this day.
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@frogman @stuartk
As it relates to Farrell, Tabackin and Jazz flute. They were not the flutists I was introduced to at a young age. I was introduced to Hubert Laws, and he was my point of reference of flutist at those early times in our lives. Along with this petite young girl who could blow, named Bobbi Humphrey.
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@stuartk
Lol! A cheese omelette. Thanks for letting me off the hook as my my french sucks, and the humor.
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@audio-b-dog
I’ll have to pull out your flute suggestions to compare. I do understand that very often jazz musicians do not have the perfect tone of classical musicians, but they have a swagger and understanding of earthy rhythms that classical musicians lack.
I don’t know if I can agree with you on that, as so many jazz musicians, including flutists have classical training. And that’s the very reason why I posted this André Previn post earlier on this and another thread:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/rudy-van-gelder-on-vinyl/post?highlight=Barney%2BKessel%2Bfrom%2Bthe%2Balbum%2B%E2%80%99Carmen%E2%80%99&postid=2804386#2804386
André Previn was a well respected concert musician as well a well respected jazz musician. Did some folks from both camps hold it against him for crossing (over) into both genres, yep and thank goodness he didn’t listen.
There are many classically trained musicians that play jazz we can think of even the most recently discussed artist here on this thread including but not limited to Esperanza Spalding, Stanley Clarke, Joe Farrell, Hubert Laws, Chick Corea were classically trained....
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Check out Esperanza’s custom electric bass. The frets are sunk/recessed into the guitar neck face and sides to work as both a fretless bass and a bass with frets. Outstanding creativity, resourcefulness and craftsmanship.
That above post was supposed to say: What!?! As I said, pick up the (electric) bass and play hell (out) of it.
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@curiousjim
What!?! As I said, pick up the (electric) bass and play hell of it.
Edit: I gotta listen to that again...Walk that bass...
Sang. Take it to Church.
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How could I forget about Herbie Mann? I've got more Herbie Mann albums than I do of Huberts Laws.
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+1 @acman3
Bravo! If you can find me something of Scriabin with musicians of this same ilk playing in the same type of venue with similar instruments or close too, I would be grateful. This brings me to mind of Duke Ellington. This is refreshing, for me...
@mahgister
The reason for me is evident so genius was Stravinsky and he is one of the greatest Russian composer, Scriabin is more revolutionary, transforming piano playing into a "primal" musical time machine which goal was putting us in a trance. He succeeded. By the way in jazz Sun Ra is our Scriabin so to speak....
The mastery of Stravinsky was the witchcraft by which he could use all musical stylistic languages of all musical history in some patchwork way...
Thank you for this....Very musically informative for me.
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What’s that story about Charlie Parker? He’d go into a diner and play Hank Williams Sr’s music/songs on one of those old booth table top record players over, and over and over. He called it (white man’s) blues. A prime example of an audiophile if you ask me?
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@stuartk
PBS _ Jazz and Blues in (Country) Western Swing
And just for shiggles and gits:
It’s my impression that the Spanish-Western Tex/Mex/Cali contributions to country music was and has always been way, way under credited and appreciated to that genre of music. Miguel Aceves Mejía, "Malagueña Salerosa"
And Malagueña Salerosa, also known as La Malagueña and not to be confused with Roy Clark - Malaguena -1969 who indecently was also a country and western entertainer/musician, written by Ernesto Lecuona of Cuba. Originally the sixth movement of his Andalucia Suite.
And check out Linda Ronstadt - ’CANCIONES DE MI PADRE’ {{H.D.}} (Complete) -1989
@audio-b-dog,
Yeah I knew who Django Reinhardt was. When I first started to take a deep dive into George Benson I was rather shocked actually to find out his favorite guitar slinger who I knew nothing about, at the time, was Django Reinhardt instead of Wes Montgomery! Needless to say I had to take a deep dive into his music, but at the time I didn’t have the musical wherewithal to take a deeper dive into the study of some of his bandmates as I was smitten by his broken fingered playing.
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@stuartk,
Yes! It’s been many, many, many years since I’ve even thought of Ry Cooder! What a treasure, a (modern) human version of a consequential ’Bluesman’.
So, is Malagueña Salerosa Mariachi or some other style?
To me ’Cancion Ranchera’ or Mariachi, absolutely, to me anyway.
Oops-- I’ve managed to stray from Jazz again!
I think it’s ok cause Bob Wills not only incorporated jazz into his music but certain aspects of Mariachi/Cancion Ranchera also.
And one thing I know about musicians, they will steal each other’s licks. Don’t tell me Grappelli didn’t steal some licks from those American GI’s in France from them Southern boys (black and white) in WW1 and some from Grisman too.
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