*****Rok has sometimes alluded to the issue of "too much knowledge". While I don't agree that there can ever be too much knowledge*****
Of course as a professional musician, you cannot have too much knowledge of music. But in the sense I was speaking I offer three examples:
(1) Watching people prepare your food in a restaurant, or the old thingy about making sausage. I think we all know what I am speaking of here. Also, think chicken farms and slaughter houses.
(2) Flying on commercial airliners. Watch a few episodes of AIR DISASTERS or WHY PLANES CRASH, and I guarantee you will never sleep or rest easy on one again. The things your life can depend on.!!
(3) Music: This morning I was listening to The Barber of Seville. Thomas Allen, Agnes Baltsa, St Martin in Fields -- Marriner. (Highlights) My favorite operatic recording. All Opera should be this well recorded. I always listen to it from start to finish.
Today I just went to amazon to see if my enthusiasm was shared. It was, but, one reviewer gave the Highlights disc one star. Went into chapter and verse on how the opera was butchered by the cuts made. I am sure he is correct, but it is also true that, I was/am blissfully unaware of anything he was talking about.
Cheers |
****Share your experiences of hearing fantastic unknown musicians live.****
Never had the opportunity to hear much Jazz live. I used to frequent a nice Jazz club in Tuscon, Arizona. Very nice bands, but I have no idea who they were. A few Jazz bands played the Military Club system in Germany, but again, no names I can remember. Also great Blues groups in El Paso, Texas.
The best live music I have ever heard was from 'soul' bands out of Yugoslavia, playing the U.S. Military club circuit in Germany. They sounded, live, better than any Motown I have ever heard on LP/CD. Great stuff.
Not being a member of the Warsaw Pact, they traveled freely in the West.
The only Big Time acts I have heard/seen live, Lou Rawls and Nancy Wilson.
I am sure I have heard folks like B.B. King, Lightin' Hopkins, Bobby Bland, Howlin' wolf et al. The only thing is, I was too young to get in. Had to listen from the ouside.
Cheers |
*****When I went back to Chicago as an adult, the place had changed so much I hardly recognized it.*****
The writer, Thomas Wolfe, nailed it when he said "you can never go home again".
You did set me straight on one thing. I always thought the LP 'Ahmad Jamal at the Pershing' was recorded at a club in Pittsburgh. I guess I got my wires crossed due to Jamal being a native of Pittsburgh.
I have hated on those people all these years because of the perfunctory applause he received for the tune 'Poinciana'. Along with all the chatter.
Now I will have to transfer my wrath to Chicago.
Thanks for the post
Cheers |
|
|
*****I only realized from your posts how important "Nawlins" is to our musical heritage*****
It's importance cannot be overstated. Not only did Jazz begin there, it is possible, that it was the ONLY place it could have been created. You could say Nawlins was the perfectly blended Gumbo. Just enough of the bad and the good. Too much of the bad, and we would not have progressed beyond the Blues. Too much of the good, and Jelly Roll and the guys would have been playing Sousa.
Cheers |
*****Dr. John is like a museum for Nawlins; he keeps all the old ways like "Gri Gri", and other "hoodoo" stuff alive.*****
He sure does. In fact, Nawlins seems to be noise-maker / progressive proof. They stay with the authenic stuff. Good for them.
Cheers |
*****in an episode of "Miami Vice" where "Legba", a voodoo high priest from Haiti captured "Tubs" when he went undercover.*****
Talk about LOL!!! That is hilarious! I wouldn't mind being kidnapped by a voodoo Priestess.
Cheers |
Listened to an old favorite today. "The 100 Best Jazz Tunes of the 1950's"
Played disc #7. All Great tunes. One was by George Russell, "Manhattan". I Googled to find out who is/was George Russell.
This guy is one of the most important figures in Jazz. You should Google him and learn his story. Reading about him makes you want to know more about music in an academic sense. Nuts and Bolts??? :)
The 100 best tunes could be the only Jazz CDs a person needs. Great Music and Sound.
Cheers |
*****What is it about the blues that says it's the blues (American)?*****
My question exactly.
Cheers |
Modal Jazz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_jazzThis is what George Russell is known for. As usual, it seems as if no one person is solely responsible for innovations. Started in Puerto Rico?? Frogman, Where is 'Modal Jazz' in today's Jazz scene ? Cheers |
|
|
I just plunked down $15.94 for "7 classic albums" by George Russell.
Cheers |
" but let's all admit that the good old days were never as good as people remember them to be."
Can't do that. They were the good old days as far as music is concerned. You seem to think that Jazz started in the mid fifties. Try New Orleans, way back before any social change was on the horizon.
Doing your own thing and putting it on the internet is not much of a business model. Maybe for the boys that play in a garage, but not for mainstream America and the rest of the world.
You are cherry picking to talk about late coltrane. He did a lot before Ascension.
What's missing is creativity. Any compenent band can play music written down on sheet music. It's the creative part that they can't do.
The blues is a form of music started in the Mississippi Delta. It was not all about racial segregation. A lot of it was just people entertaining other people. Same as bluegrass. It was not solely about social conditions. To say otherwise is to say the players could only react to injustice. And most of the blues is about Women and sex, not injustice. Some people just don't understand the lingo of the blues. The creativity continued in Memphis, Chicago and many other places.
Cheers |
"Rok, if the JATP is your concept of jazz, that was dead a long time ago"
Well, I guess I was duped into thinking it was Jazz. But it did say Jazz on the cover of the CD. And the reviews I read said it was Jazz. But the thing that really sucked me in, was the guys in the band!
I thought I read somewhere that Dizzy Gillespie, Roy Eldridge, Ella Fitzgerald etc.... were Jazz musicians. I guess not. Boy, I feel like a chump now.
But I do want to thank you for exposing me to some 'real' Jazz. That Youn Sun Nah is something!! And to think, I used to think Ella Fitzgerald could sing!! I see now I have been misled. I spent three years in Korea and never knew they did Jazz, let along at such a high level. WOW!!
Thanks O-10. I think, for the first time, I completely and truly understand your concept of Jazz. What can one say? (amadeus)
Cheers |
Orpheus10:
I did listen to Chucho valdes today. His 'Live at the Village Vanguard'. This guy is a monster on the Keyboard!! He is brilliant! The question is whether or not the music grabs you. I will leave that up to you. I like Jazz with a beginning, middle and end. His sister sings on one of the tunes. One reviewer said: "valdes' command of the keyboard is so technically staggering as to be stupefying". hahahaha That sounds a little scary! Check it out on youtube if it's there. It's a keeper for sure. "Must Have'? That's a different question. Overall it came across as too much of an 'exhibition'. A few horns would have helped. This may have been a case of just too much piano. The percussion only got a chance to solo on one track.
Danilo Perez -- PanaMonk
This Cd was much more to my liking. Perez' take on Monk. I didn't hear much Monk, but the tunes were familiar, so maybe that's why they sounded so good. He is a great Piano player also.
Irakere -- The Best Of Irakere
I am not sure what to make of this. Some great music for dancing. And some Jazz. But sometimes I got the feeling I was listening to someone trying to play like WAR or Santana or EW&F. I think everyone was trying to 'out-play' everyone else in the band. The Mozart thingy, by Paquito, was very cute. 'Xiomara' was my favorite.
Mario Bauza & his Afro-Cuban Jazz Orch -- My Time is Now
A very important founding figure in the whole Afro-Cuban Jazz scene. And there is one thing we can say about this CD. The name of the group states very clearly what type music is being played. Good stuff.
I didn't get a chance to play Mongo. Will save him for another day. He was my first introduction to afro-cuban Jazz back in the day.
One other thing. Read the liner notes on all of this music. It's fascinating! Read them and then say there is not a battle going on for the soul of Jazz.
FROGMAN: Do you write liner notes? I read some stuff thst sounds just like you. :)
Cheers |
Charlie Parker has / had too much influence on Jazz. Surely you, O-10 & Frogman, Jest!!!
(1) Bach, Beethoven, Brahms and Mozart had / have too much influence on European Classical Music.
(2) Sir Issac Newton had too much influence on Mathematics
(3) Eienstein had too much influence on Physics and Astro-physics.
(4) Charlie Parker had /has too much influence on Jazz.
All of the above statements are EQUALLY true. Or EQUALLY non-sense!
West Coast Jazz, is a term used to describe players that played on the west coast in the so-called 'cool' style.
Why the West Coast you might ask. Answer: Because all of the greats played on the East coast. Better to rule in hell, than serve in heaven.
You cannot make a silk purse folks. They weren't good enough to play with the big boys, so they ran west. If the top be-bop players had been on the west coast also, 'Cool' Jazz would have arisen in Nebraska! Mediocrity cannot survive in the presence and / or immediate vicinity of genius! So it was 'Go West Young Wanna-be'
I leave for a few hours and you people are already off the reservation!!
Cheers |
With a title like:
'The Kingdom Of Swing & The Republic of OOP BOP SH'BAM'
I was expecting something on the order of Sun Ra meets Gleen Miller! Turned out to be a very nice straight ahead session from the 92nd street Y in NYC. Another production by Dick Hyman.
Live recording. The audience seemed to be into it. Nice solos on several of the tracks. Good bass playing by Milt Hinton on 'Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho' Joe Wilder is on board on trumpet. One of my favorites.
An alternate title might have been 'Professionals at Work'. Another day at the office. Very good, but nothing spectacular. But then again this is essentially a pickup band. They don't play together as a rule. Sort of like the USA Basketball team.
Cheers |
O-10:
"Rok, I'm still waiting for your comments on "Soul Brothers/ Soul Meeting" with Ray Charles and Milt Jackson, as well as the Trio Trebien."
I did comment of Trio Tres Bien. I am afraid 'soul meeting' is still in the waiting to be ordered box. But I think the time is now to order.
Cheers
You are correct on Jones and Person not being married. |
Today's Gem:
Cannonball Adderley Sextet -- Lugano 1963
Nat adderley, yusef lateef, joe zawinul, sam jones, louis hayes
Cannoball's best group playing at their best, well recorded, before a live European audience! It don't get no better than this.
I have never heard a cannonball group play this, in your face, before. This is sort of like cannonball's magical moment that mingus had at antibes.
O-10 thinks 'something else' is cannonball's best and one of the best Jazz recordings ever. hmmmmmmmmmm. better check this one out.
Great soloing throughout the entire program. Good live ambience.
Just before they launch into 'trouble in mind', julian talks about the lack of the blues in 'modern' jazz. (Which is what really seperates the men from the boys!)
yusef and jones then proceed to tear the house down on 'trouble in mind'. yusef on oboe. he played flute, tenor sax and oboe during the set.
yusef (flute) and nat are also awesome on 'jive samba'
'Dizzy's business' and 'work song' also appear.
as julian is so fond of saying, "check it out"
Cheers
|
Acman3
I took the Lee Morgan thingy the way you meant it.
The tragedy that has befallen Jazz, is not limited to Jazz. You can substitute Jazz, with Rock & Roll or R&B or POP or Country or folk / protest or Gospel.
They have all suffered. The problem is, no one sees or hears the decline, except the people who are familiar with and / or grew up with the previous stuff. This is true of most things in society.
Think about it, Lee Morgan died over 41 years ago!!. I find myself waiting for his next Cd. We just said he was 19 a few posts ago, didn't we?
Jazz has the added problem or being an improvised music. That creates major problems.
How does a current player, play the great Jazz music? A current classical player can play Mozart today because it's written down on paper. How do you play Charlie Parker?
The next big problem is that because it is not a written down on paper music, and it is improvised, ANYONE, can play ANYTHING, and call it Jazz. And, I guess it is. Today.
So, the soloution is this. As a fan, or aficionado, You pick your stop on the railroad and get off. Just like the classical people did. you say, when this era,(fill in the blank) ended, that was the end of MY Jazz. The same goes for all the other genres. I will henceforth, live off compilations, reissues and remasters. And the odd surprise or discovery.
So there should not be any argument. Music does change. The public changes. Just pick the stuff you like and live with it. Just like the people that watch Verdi and Mozart operas year after year after year.
The Jazz stuff that I like most, was coming to an end, almost before I became aware of it's existence. Wow!!
Cheers |
This person says it better than I could. http://bretpimentel.com/classical-musicians-and-jazz-music/The Jazz players are better. In Classical music, Mozart, Bach and Beethoven have already done the hard part. All the so-called highly proficient player has to do, is play what's on the paper. And they practice all their lives to play a well established and limited number of tunes, and their playing time on each tune can vary very greatly. I don't see a problem. Exhibit A: "Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section" They played together and met each I think, for the first time as the tapes was rolling. Amazing!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHuzH2FL1wwThe People Rest. Cheers |
Frogman et al.
I listened to the Buddy DeFranco youtube. It was what I expected. Good stuff. Buddy is a big time player. No surprises.
The Frank Viguola youtube was very interesting. As I listened to it, I was impressed with his skill on guitar. But, I felt something was missing. I thought it needed a different instrumentation. A rhythm section and horns?? A guitar and clarinet just didn't seem enough to do that type music justice. I thought to myself that this is happy music, up there, or down there,If you ask O-10, with Sweet Georgia Brown.
As it happened, my eyes wander over to the right side of the screen and there was a clip of Viguola playing Sweet Georgia Brown with the Wynton Marsalis quiintet. I played it.
If you ever want a demostration of my argument, these two youtubes are it!! Great musicians on both tapes. Music of the same degree of difficulty. DAY & NIGHT in overall effect!! Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELXtZmFpvPk
Cheers
O-10: I didn't get what music you were speaking of: The Three Sounds or the Lee Morgan set? The one you will buy if the sound is good. |
" I would expect that if someone where to have an intelligent conversation about a musician, i.e. Charlie Parker (which is what I assumed from the members here), that they would have a certain knowledge about music itself in order to support and clarify their comments."
I Disagree. A person can make any comment he wishes about any musician. No special knowledge is required, other than, hopefully, he has listened to that musician's music.
The 1000 lb gorilla in the room is this, musicians are whatever the PUBLIC, says they are. Not what their peers think of them.
I am sure Miles et al. knew guys who deserved to be as great as they were, and I am sure they thought of them on their way to the bank. It's always been that way and it always will.
Someone decides who will be great. Back in the days of classical music it was the local Patron paying the musican's livelhood. In other words, a few decided. Now millions decide. It's a tougher room.
I think Goofyfoot and The Frogman could be in advanced music / improvisation theory, but, have wandered into Jazz Appreciation 101. Here, we just comment and share what we hear and how it moves us. And all are qualified to do that! Of course, all others are welcomed. A person can never have too much knowledge, and The Frogman is our local guru when it comes to the finer points of music.
Fighting and being argumentive? Well, it's better than being boring! Boredom kills threads! And if The Frogman and I can live together in peacefull coexistence, then anyone can!
Cheers |
'Soultrane' is a great CD. I had forgotten how 'normal' Coltrane can sound. Great playing. Maybe Red Garland and Paul Chambers kept order!
I listened to the Ray Charles and Betty Carter CD. I thought it was very good. Esp 'Baby It's Cold Outside' and 'Takes Two To Tango'.
The Choral groups doing the 'sweetening'? Nothing new, ever hear of Bird and Strings? Nat Cole's Christams CD? On that one there were two(2) orchestras and three(3) choral groups to 'help' him. Just ruined one of the greatest Christmas CDs of all time.
Lets not even talk about Gil Evans and Miles Davis. But it is the same thing / mind set! I don't think any of these great artist 'requested' help! "They' always seem to think they can make it Mo' Better. Defend the Music!!
Maybe you are beginning to see my point.
Cheers |
Lastest played:
Hank Crawford (alto sax) -- Mr Blues / Mr Blues Plays Lady Soul
If you ever wanted to stroll down Beale street, this is it.
David 'Fathead' Newman, Pepper Adams, Bernard Purdie and others lend support. Party Time music. You'll think you are in a rib joint in Memphis. 'Going down slow' and 'Since you've been gone' my favorites
Crawford Was Ray Charles Band director in the early 60's. Three of Ray's former sax players died in 2009. Crawford and 'fathead' Newman were two of them.
There are three(3) pictures of crawford on the cover, one on the back of the cover, one on the CD surface, one on the inside bottom of the tray and one on the rear of the insert. lest we forget??
Abbey Lincoln (vocal) -- Abbey Is Blue
Her best and one of the best period. 'Afro-Blue' and 'Laugh, Clown, laugh' are standouts among standouts. The recording is difficult to describe. Her voice is center and perfect, but it sounds as if she is in a large room with wooden floors. This is not a bad thing. I thought the band could have been a little more upfront.
Stanley Turrentine, Kenny Dorham, Wynton Kelly, Cedar walton, Philly Joe Jones and Max Roach in support. Truly a great performance. Afro-Blue is worth it all by itself!!
Chano Dominguez (piano) -- Hecho a Mano
This is an attempt to merge Jazz and flamenco. I will leave it to music experts to say to what degree he succeeds. I know, I like it. This is the real deal. Very nice listening, which is what it's all about. Great recording. Great Piano Playing.
Cheers
"I found out as a young musician growing up in Memphis that if you weren't reaching people and having them tap their foot, then there was nothing happening."
Hank Crawford.
I like his attitude! |
Today's Playlist:
'The Jazz Soul of Porgy & Bess'
arranged and conducted by Bill Potts
Big Band take on the Gershwin Opera. No Vocals.
w/ Harry Edison, Art Framer, Zoot Sims, Bill Evans and others.
With this lineup of players, the playing is of course outstanding. I guess I missed the singing.
Canadian Brass -- Basin street
The songs on this CD should have qualified this CD as one of the best examples of New Orleans Jazz. All the great classic tunes are here. Not Close, no cigar.
World class brass players, but they didn't get the essence of the music. Maybe, what's missing is a rhythm section, or a clarinet. Or maybe they were just missing Louis!
I also have a Christmas CD by these guys. It was a disappointment also.
Joanne Brackeen -- Where Legends Dwell
w/Eddie Gomez and Jack De Johnette
Brackeen plays great piano. All tunes written by her. Eddie Gomez is a monster on Bass. I am not sure if this is her best work. I understand she also has a Maybeck Recital Hall CD. I will love to hear her on that one.
Oscar Brown Jr. -- Sin & Soul
A classic. Everyone has to have this one. Great song writing. Not a weak track. 'Rags and Old Iron' is one of the great songs. Lots of social commentary in the songs. And lots of humor also. Ain't got it? Git it!!
Cheers |
Recent listen:
Paquito D'Rivera -- Portraits of Cuba (arranged and conducted by Carlos Franzetti)
This is the most disappointing CD I have heard in years. The Cover art is great. Shows a very young Paquito in white tails and white shoes in the middle of a crowded Pre-Castro night club. He is front and center in the classic sax players stance. Head back, looking at the ceiling, blowing!! You just know this is gonna be some good stuff. Wrong!
There is no music here. At least no Cuban or Afro-Cuban music. The musicians are professionals. They don't play out of tune or time. They just don't say anything. So I thought maybe it's just me. So I go to Amazon for other points of view.. A few cheerleaders gave it five stars. But the following review I copied because it addresses the problem.
*************A nice mellow sound for background music, but nothing with salsa to make you want to samba or such. No Latin or African influences are audible.
Published on October 23, 1999"**************
And this won the Grammy for best Latin Jazz record in 1997! hahahahahha That shows how much a Grammy is worth. I think that arranger is the problem! I know it's not Paquito!! Just like old Siegfried and Wolfgang on 'Soul to Jazz'. And Bill Potts on 'The Jazz Soul of Porgy and Bess'. They always wanna make it mo' better.
This is a lousy example of truth in advertising! The cover art and the pictures inside say one thing, the music is all together different. What was Paquito thinking! He didn't even use Latin musicians.
Defender La Musica
Antes de que sea Demasiado Tarde!!
Cheers |
Today's Playlist:
Jon Hendricks -- Freddie Freeloader
Jon Hendricks -- Boppin' at the Blue Note
In a sense, these two CDs are TEST discs. You can use them to test if you like Jazz or not. Don't like these, then you don't like Jazz. Could save you a lot of time and money.
Nothing to figure out. Just sit back and enjoy! STARDUST and FAS' lIVIN' BLUES are standouts. I like the Boppin' slighly better than the FREELOADER. With lines like 'take it easy greasy, you got a long way to slide' what's not to like!! Al Grey on board! Too many others to list.
Duke Ellington -- Black, Brown and Beige
With Mahalia Jackson. One the Duke's masterpieces. Jackson sings of course. You may have heard, she could sing.
Les McCann & Eddie Harris -- Swiss Movement
One of the all time great Jazz records. I went thru two LPs, and now have two CDs. 'Compared to what', gets all the hype, but I am partial to 'You Got It In Your Soulness'. I remember where I was the first time I heard the LP. Ain't got it? Git it!
Jackie McLean -- Bluesnik
with Freddie Hubbard-trumpet, Kenny Drew-piano, Doug Watkins-bass, Pete La Roca-drums.
I never knew Jackie was this accessible. But I guess the blues is for everyone! Every tune a blues number.
The liner notes writer, Ira Giter, said Jazz without the Blues is like a body minus it's spine. I would go further and say, Jazz without the Blues is like a body without a Skeleton! Just a shapless blob.
Wynton Marsalis & Eric Clapton -- Play The Blues
A wonderful CD. I don't listen as much as I marvel at the playing. This is how ARRANGING for Jazz band is done!! Some folks like to dis Wynton, but this guy knows his business. Professionals at work! Ain't got it? Git it!
Cheers
|
Complete 'Review'
Ray Charles & Milt Jackson -- Soul Brothers / Soul meeting
Purchased this on the recommendation of O-10. It was a good buy. If you like Blues in your Jazz or Jazz in your Blues, this is it. 2 CD set.
Ray plays piano and alto. Milt plays Vibes, piano and guitar. Sometimes it hard to keep track of who's playing what. But it's all good. I have never heard Ray play Jazz like this.
Quite a few big time people on board. Oscar Pettiford stands out. This guy is no Shrinking Violet. You always know he is there. I think O-10 may have a point about Pettiford.
The liner notes are really interesting. Sort of hard to follow, the tunes are not talked about in order, and the additional tracks are not mentioned at all.
However he, (Bill Randle) discusses the playing in great detail. Uses phrases like "Billy Mitchell sounds like Charlie Parker blowing through Coleman Hawkins' embouchure" or "plays tatum piano riffs". hahahahahahha Great stuff. hmmmmmmm his writing style does seem familiar!
Great laid back stuff. Late night with that special someone? Recorded in 1957 & 1958. Pettiford died in 1960. This must have been one of his last recordings.
Recommended.
Cheers |
************"A visceral, non-analytic, appreciation of music is great and truly the bottom line; but, understanding the proces better can clear the way for a deeper understanding of the art".*********
Your post was very informative. You should be a teacher. Maybe you are?
But the quote above is the most IMPORTANT thing you said. It just so happened that I was listening to to the following CD as I read your post.
Fred McDowell -- Amazing Grace
Mississippi Delta Spirituals by the
Hunter's Chapel Singers of Como, Mississippi
These folks are as far away from understanding music theory on your level, as a person can get. But they do indeed get the visceral part. To me it says, HOME.
BTW, I do pause every now and then to make a joyful noise to The Lord.
In that spirit let me recommend:
Various Artist -- Say Amen, Somebody Org Soundtrack
Chanticleer -- How sweet the Sound
Robert Shaw -- American Hymns and Spirituals
Chanticleer -- Where the Sun Will Never Go Down
Fairfield Four -- Standing in the Safety Zone
As Cannonball once said, "it's all the same thing"
Cheers |
Learsfool & The Frogman:
Let me make a few points:
1. You do not offend me when you correct me or display knowledge that I don't possess. I spent 30 years in the U.S. Military. You get used to blunt, straight talk. No tap dancing or sugar coating. Thin skins don't survive. I have no modesty, and I cannot be offended.
Now I would bet, that if I asked you how to deploy a platoon in the field or how to call in artillery support or how to defend against Chemical, Biological and Nuclear attacks or where to place the Machine Guns or where to dig the Fighting Positions, there is a good chance you would not know. Does not reflect on your intelligence. It's just that you have not been trained to do these things. I hope you get my point.
I view your participation in this type thread as an oppourtunity to pick your brains. With the full realization that you two must be bored to tears.
2. I was just thinking about gaining more musical knowledge. I wonder if that is not a two edged sword. Sure I could have better understanding as to what I am hearing, and what the musicians are doing. But, at the same time if seems as if it would take more to impress me.
I hear CDs now and I am in awe of what I hear. The Frogman not so much. He knows too much. I marvel at 'hog calling blues' but I don't think the Frogman was as impressed as I am. He can disect the action. To me it's just wonderful confusion, that somehow never quite flys apart, and comes together in the end.!
When I was a kid growing up, I loved military movies. Didn't miss a one that came to my town. I also worked at the movie house, so I saw them all free. Then later, I was drafted and went into the real military. Loved everyday of the 30 years. No greater life. BUT, I can no longer bear to sit thru a military movie. Why? Because they are 99% BS. I now know too much.
Will the same thing happened if a person increases
his knowledge of the making and playing of music? Esp Jazz improvisation. It's one thing to know and then play. Another to know and just listen to others play. Or so I would think.
Learsfool: I have at least 10 differnt performances of LvB's 7th. I love them all. I bet you would not.
Just thinking out loud.
Cheers |
Newbee:
Thanks for the post. The more posters the better. I agree with almost all of what you said. I do disagree with your last sentence.
I never meant to say that I have 'NO' knowledge of music. I realize that it is a rarity on this site, for a person to admit that there is something they do not know, so when it happens, people tend to think of them as complete dumbasses. That is not the case here.
I just appreciate the fact that The Frogman has had education and work experiences in the music field that I have not had. Because of this I seek information from him, and defer to him on many music questions.
I still like what I like, and ANY reason a person gives for preferring certain music is legit. This thread is not about converting folks. It's just a bunch of guys talking about Jazz. I think that was the OP's intent.
This is the statement I am not sure I understand. *********"Consider, Rok, that if you have no knowledge you can only express a subjective opinion which can limit discussions and make them one dimensional.*********
All musical preferences are subjective. You cannot give me a 'logical / factual' reason whay I should like Ornette Coleman. Plenty of people do, but i don't.
And that opinion is as legit as any professor's at Julliard. So I don't understand why you say 'subjective' opinions limit the discussion? Make the discussion one dimensional? Far from it.
We all have opinions, so the discussion should be lively. One dimensional would be for all of us to be 'lectured to' by one person, or, all agree on every opinion expressed. Nothing kills a thread like boredom!
Lets not forget the purpose of the thread. Or the intent of the OP.
Again, thanks for your input.
Cheers |
The Frogman & O-10:
It usually takes me a few tries for me to clearly get my thoughts together.
Vermont: you are right about the lyrics being vital to the song being about vermont. My point was, if we had never heard of Moonlight, and just heard the music without the words, would we think of Vermont? I don't see why we should.
Ella is singing the song so she HAS to do the words and interpet with mental images and concepts of Vermont in mind.
Houston Person was under no such restrictions. The only thing that he had to consider was the music / melody. He had a free hand to blow as he saw fit or felt.
I.E. the song HAS TO BE about vermont only when you sing the words. Otherwise it's just a very nice tune in the category of Autumn Leaves etc..... that Jazz guys like to improvise over.
All of the above could be, and probably is, BS. But that is what I meant in my post about putting too much emphasis on the Name / lyrics of the tune, in relation to the Houston person effort.
BTW,
Sun Ra: I have since learned that he had recently suffered a stroke before they made the Billy Bang recording. Probably accounted for his lack luster playing. Sad.
Cheers |
This is the passage from the Abdul-Malik CD's liner notes.
"The public acceptance of a new Jazz musician is generally a difficult thing to attain. Many players after years of hard work find themselves forced to take jobs outside of the music world to feed themselves and their families.
Others bastardize their art and play types of music that usually have nothing whatsoever to do with Jazz.
Unfortunately, in the Jazz world, a man's ability to play, his skill, or his musical ideas do not govern his success , or his failure.
This can be shown in many cases where inferior musical talents have made fortunes while outstanding players have starved."
He goes on to say that Ahmed has found it extremely difficult to find work playing the music he wants to play and the way he wants to play it.
I guess he wasn't listening. He died in 1993.
Cheers |
*******"what was the best jazz album ever"***********
O-10, That is an impossible task. The greatest Jazz album would have to be a complilation. A 100 CD box set. :)
This morning I just reached for something to listen to. Happened to be 'Kansas City Shout" Basie, with Cleanhead Vinson and Joe Turner on vocals.
Now, if I could only have one Jazz CD and I had to choose between Basie and Somethin' Else and Kind Of Blue. Guess what? It's Basie everytime!! None of that Muted pablum!!
Does that mean the Basie is a 'Better" CD than the other two? Nope. This Basie album would probably not appear on any 'Best' list.
Therein lies the problem or trying to say ONE Album is the best ever.
You gonna leave off Ahmad Jamal's 'Poinciana', Song for My Father, Swiss Movement, Tons of Mingus and Monk. You see the point. And we have not even gotten to some real heavyweights.
But we can try. All in fun of course. I will submit my candidate for you aficionados to trash errrr.. I mean to critique, later today. Cleanhead just said "got up this morning, got me a jug, and laid back down" Gotta pay attention. ahahahahahah
Cheers |
Today's Recommendations:
Clark Terry -- Yes, The Blues
with / Cleanhead Vinson (on alto and vocals) and others
Nothing to figure out here. Just pros playing well. Is it Bop, Blues or R&B? Well it depends on which part of which tune you are listening to at the time.
Ella can sound like an instrument, and on this set, Terry's trumpet sounds like a vocalist.
Cleanhead is not a bad sax player either. They both do one vocal number each. Let's hope Terry sticks with trumpet!
Not essential, but nice to have.
Miles Davis -- '58 Sessions
featuring 'Stella By Starlight'
with/ Coltrane, Cannonball, Bill Evans, Paul Chambers, and Jimmy Cobb.
Two different sets on one CD. First 4 tunes in the studio, the last three live at a hotel in NYC.
Great tune selection.
I like the overall ambience of the live numbers. it was at a party given by Columbia to celebrate the state of Jazz at the label. Seems as if Cannonball and Coltrane were engaged in a cutting session on 'Straight, No Chaser'.
The solos were awesome on all tunes. So much horn play, Evans seems to have gotten lost. One of his solos sounded as if he was a few rooms down the hall. Probably due to the miking at the live event.
Essential? It depends on how many CDs you have with Miles, Coltrane, Cannonball, Chambers, Evans and Cobb all playing in the same group. If you have a bunch, you might be able to skip this one. if not, Git it!.
The Live vs studio thingy is an irritant. Slight tape hiss.
Cheers |
******my suggestion of..
"Blue Bacharach - A Cooler Shaker" is NOT in the same category of your three Dionne CDs.
I re-address this just so that other readers here do not assume that is the case.**********
I agree. I was, in my typically clumsy way, trying to say, that I was over familiar with the tunes on the CD. I did not mean to infer any other similarity.
This is Jazz and Dionne is pop. Very good pop.
Thanks for your post.
I did put the CD in my waiting to buy list on amazon.
Lou Rawls, Nancy Wilson, and Blue Note!! That should be a slam dunk!
Cheers |
Mingus & Dee Dee, I have both of them, and if they were on LP, they would already be worn out. I think Milestones will be a favorite also.
I have always considered 'Oh Yeah" and 'At Antibes' my favorite mingus. But 'Ah Um' is moving up fast.
Cheers |
Today's Selection:
Miles davis -- Milestones
with / Cannonball, Coltrane, Red Garland, Paul Chambers, Philly Joe Jones
A lot of talk about this one being an outstanding example of MODAL Jazz. Like O-10, I am not even sure what that means. 'Kind of Blue' is another MODAL outing.
The only thing I noticed was that the horns seldom if ever played at the same time. The piano player, Garland, seem to just stab at the notes he played. He was very much in the background. This could have been by design or just the recording. I didn't notice any thing other than great playing by the bass and drums.
In any event, this is one great recording. The soloing is just awesome. It all seems so uncluttered. No blowing just to be blowing. I 'reviewed' the '58 concert, Stella by Starlight, a while back. This is the same group. Anything by this group is a must have. We will never again see this much talent together, in such a small group.
Sometimes we tend to just take guys like Miles and Coltrane for granted. We say they were great, almost as an after thought, but they really were! This CD demostrates that they were on a level above the rest.
You know the drill. Ain't got it? Git It!
I just ordered the Harold Land. I had to remove a 'Gene Ammons & Sonny Stitt', to fit him in. He'd better be worth it. :)
Cheers |
Today's Trip:
Dexter Gordon -- One Flight Up
with/ Donald Byrd, Kenny Drew, Art Taylor, Niels-Henning Orsted
Recorded in paris in 1964. All the players except the Dane, Orsted, were American expatriates living and playing in Europe.
The playing is exceptionally enjoyable. Only four tracks, so the soloist can really stretch out and take the time to state their case. All the music is mid-tempo and very lyrical. The Frogman would have a field day breaking down these solos.
Makes me wonder that maybe a lot of other Recorded Jazz was too much, crammed into too little time and space.
The liner notes were written by Leonard Feather. His style is what I would call Frogmanesque. Sort of technical, but very interesting.
There are a few statements in the liner notes that irritated me. The players say that European audiences had a very special insight into Jazz. After all that goose stepping, I find that hard to believe. And that the place was "almost completely free or racial prejudeice". I guess they had not heard of World War Two.
The cover photo is one of the most interesting in Jazz. Which is another thing we have lost, the Great Blue Note black & white photos. Just as audiophiles have lost the great cartoons of Rodriquez.
All in All, a very good session. Highly Recommended.
Cheers |
Recent Arrival:
Freddie Hubbard & Jimmy heath
JAM GEMS - "LIVE" AT THE LEFT BANK
Great Live recording. You know the audience is there, but it adds to the peformance. The sound is, as if you are sitting in the crowd. Might not be to 'audiophile' taste. Jazz lovers should love it. I think it was recorded by a Jazz Society in Baltimore.
Excellent liner notes, that even address why some folks just can't let go of the OLD stuff. Includes me.
Doc Pomus is quoted, explaining the difference between a studio record and a "LIVE" performance from the musicians perspective.. Very interesting.
The playing is just awesome. The tune 'Bluesville' almost approaches 'Hog Calling Blues'. Not quite, but that type of tune. You could say, 'they turned the joint out.' It was a true Jam Session, as the title states.
The rhythm section is not known to me, but they hung with the horns. All the tunes are long. 'Autumn Leaves' goes 17 minutes. Check it out.
Highly Recommended.
Cheers |
O-10,
I have 'The Electrifying Eddie Harris' on LP. I will now have to get it on CD. I had forgotten what I was missing.
That cut does bring back memories. Like, when you could find Jazz on juke boxes in bars. Great tunes.
I have had "Bean Bags' on my 'to order' list for a while now. It will be on my next order.
I spent quite a long time in Atlanta myself. Used to work for IBM on Peachtree back in the mid/late 60's. A great time for music.
For computers also. I worked on the IBM Model 360. Which has since been replaced by my 99 cent cascio calculator. :(
I am sure I have everything Nina ever recorded. :) Her 'Four Women' stays on my desk. You can never get enough Nina.
I was in memory lane last night. Listening / watching DVDs.
Three Mo'Tenors, EW&F, Playing For Change and Smokey Joe's Cafe.
Nothing can possibly sound better than listening thru HD 650s and a first rate Sound card.
I have about 80 CDs to catalog on the puter. So I better get busy. Great to have you back.
Cheers |
Today's gem:
Ray Bryant Trio -- POTPOURRI
Ray Bryant (piano),Jimmy Rowser (bass),Mickey Roker(drums)
Eight tracks, all standards. They aren't called standards for nothing. Great Tunes. My comments apply to each and every track.
Outstanding dynamics throughout the CD. No gentle Tinkling of the ivories or soft brush strokes on the cymbals, these guys make a joyful noise!!
They sound like a much larger group. It's hard to keep in mind that only three people are making these wonderful sounds.
Of course Bryant is just awesome. One of my favorite Jazz players and one of my first. "Slow Freight" was one of my first Jazz LPs.
What is unique about this set is that the Drum and Bass solos are of just as high a quality as the leader's solos. The bass player plays with outstanding intonation and articlation. Very effective and merges seamless with the tunes. Ditto the drumer.
Should be played at the proper volume for max effect and enjoyment.
Don't like this? Not a crime, just means you don't like Jazz, and that's not a crime either. It's a 'condition'.
Cheers |
Take Two:
Freddie Hubbard -- READY FOR FREDDIE
Hubbard(trumpet),McKinney(euphonium)WTF???,Wayne Shorter(tenor Sax), Art Davis (bass), McCoy Tyner(piano).
As The O-10 previously pointed out,(stealing my thunder in the process), good straight ahead Bebop.
There was a time when I felt Miles Davis was the Alpha and Omega of Jazz trumpet. No more.
I was a little late 'discovering' Freddie Hubbard. My loss. He is for sure among the top trumpet players ever.
Three of the five tunes are by Hubbard and they are the best on the CD. The aptly named "Birdlike" is the best cut. It and "Crisis" rise above the typical BlueNote stuff.
I don't get the Euphonium, seems to me that if they wanted another horn, someone like, Al Grey on trombone would have been a better fit.
McKinney plays well, it's just that the tone of the instrument does not seem to add much to the proceedings.
Tyner is the consummate sideman. Giving just what is needed. I guess he learned to be low key playing with the biggest ego in Jazz, Coltrane.
Shorter comes close to stealing the show, esp on "Birdlike". I guess that would be fitting.
The rhythm section keeps everything moving, even the tuba guy. Elvin Jones is another great on drums.
Overall, a very good Blue Note outing. But with the talent avalabile during that time, it was sort of difficult to make a bad record.
O-10 says it's on youtube. Check it out. Esp "Birdlike"
Cheers |
Todays' Discovery:
Charles Mingus -- MINGUS AT THE BOHEMIA
features: Mingus(bass),Eddie Bert(trombone), George Barrow(tenor Sax), Willie Jones(drums), and Max Roach as special guest on drums.
The first step on the road to 'Ah Um', 'Oh Yeah', 'At Antibes' et al. Recorded at Cafe Bohemia, NYC DEC 1955.
Comments by Nat Hentoff, Down Beat, state that "This was Mingus' first recording with a working band of his own. The group was also the first to carry the Mingus Jazz Workshop Banner."
So this is very, very early Mingus. It you listen you can hear a little of what is to come. The music just sounds familiar. Now, not then. This was cutting edge stuff then.
Eight tracks. No throwaways here. 'Septemberly', 'All the Things you C#', and 'Jump Monk' feature exceptional playing.
Mingus does a very nice duet with Max Roach, on a tune called 'percussion discussion.' Mingus on Bass.
'All the things that you C#' contains elements of 'all the things you are' and Rachmaninov's 'prelude in C# minor' and a little dash of 'Clair de Lune.'
On the alt take of C#, he stopped the band, and restarted them after a little admonishment. hahhaha Gotta be Mingus! The guy was worst than Monk!!
Check it out. Any Mingus / Jazz fan has to have it.
Cheers |
Today's Listen:
Miles Davis -- KIND OF BLUE
Davis(trumpet),Cannonball(alto sax), Coltrane(tenor sax), Wynton Kelly & Bill Evans (piano), Paul Chambers(bass), James Cobb(drums)
I assume everyone and their brother has this recording. It is considered one of the greatest if not the greatest Jazz recordings ever. I thought I would 'review' it and tell everyone WHY, it is, or is not, the greatest ever.
I listened to it several times. Each time I tried to write about it, the words seemed inadequate. I thought it was great without being to explain why I thought so.
I said, great tune selection, and not too many(5) or too few. Too many dilutes the playing, and too few leads to overblown very long solos.
I said the solos were complex but sounded simple and eloquent.
I said the soloist never played at the same time. In other words, no clutter and no filler.
I said someone(miles) was obviously in charge, otherwise Coltane's solos would be longer than the entire CD.
I said all the entire performance seemed to flow seamless. The tunes seemed connected by style and dynamic range.
The rhythm section was awesome. Essential support, but never in the way of the masters.
I think all this is true but does not make it the greatest ever. So I did some searching and found this review online:
*****In the documentary drummer Jimmy Cobb -- the only surviving participant -- stated that he didn't understand why KIND OF BLUE stands out above any of Miles' many other outstanding albums. Perhaps it is because the user-friendly music satisfies the listener at whatever level they prefer. If you want to get emotively involved with the music, it leads you there. If you're a musician looking to pick apart the music, you'll discover a level of sophistication attained by very few. If you want to relax, the music is soothing on its surface. If you want to hear memorable improvisations, Miles and his sidemen lead the way by avoiding the use of cliched phrases. If you want to hear teamwork, the musicians know how to create together (when to play and when NOT to play). If you want something timeless, the music's freshness has no expiration date. Yet if you have a nostalgic twinge for the cool, acoustic jazz of the 1950s, this album will take you back in time.******
I think this guy nailed it. But I want to hear what the AFICIONADOS that contribute to this thread think. I know you have it, so listen to it, and share your thoughts.
The greatest? Hmmmmmm, there's still 'Blues and the Abstract Truth' to consider. And others. I reserve comment for now. :)
Cheers |
The Frogman:
The Spike Jones clip was great! Shades of Ed Sullivan!! I know O-10 loved it as well. I understand Orpheus and Jones share the same Tailor.
Listen for today:
T.S. Monk -- CHANGING OF THE GUARD
Except for Monk, the players are mostly unknown to me. That is my loss. This is an exceptional CD. Hard Bop does not get better than this.
As the liner notes point out: "the material was drawn from the repertoires of men who were not only gifted composers but also had substantial reputations as instrumentalists."
Two of Monk's tunes, 'monk's dream' and 'crepuscule with nellie' appear.
All the tunes are very good and the playing is exceptional. Check it out if you don't have it. Of course all you 'aficionados' should already have it.
I have three CDs by T.S. Monk, 'Changing of the Guard', 'the charm' and 'monk on monk'. All are first rate.
For those new to Jazz, T.S. Monk is the son of the late, great, Thelonious Monk.
You know you want it, so git it!!
Cheers |
O-10:
****How about the real deal?******
*** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDHpkYI5_FY ***
When this record was released, it created quite a stir in the state of Mississippi.
First of all, people assumed she threw a baby off the bridge. This was back in a time when there was such a thing as shame.
Secondly, and most importantly, for a spell, people did not know if she was black or white. So they didn't know whether they could show that they liked the song or not. In public that is.
Lest you think this is silly, when I worked in the movie theater, the Rock & Roll movie 'Rock Around the Clock', was shown at a special showing at midnight on a saturday night, "Adults Only"!!!! I was the only young person in town that got to see it. hahahhahahah
I think back and can't believe it.
It is a great song. Mississippi has always punched above it's weight when it comes to musicians and writers.
Cheers |
