Jazz for aficionados
The Santana I remember. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDLLXUaqZxg I am reluctant to post this, cause I sure don't wanna put the OP into Cardiac Arrest! Cheers |
To The Oracles: The gurus need to get it out of their heads that "some folks" think Jazz musicians don't need to know the fundamentals of music, or don't have to practice, or that folks think knowing the technical side, (Lord, I almost said the dreaded Nuts and Bolts)of music takes away from the emotion of it all. As if "some people" are just mindless morons that operate on pure emotion. "Some people"didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday. All these assumptions(strawmen) you throw out are just plain wrong. Trust me, we get it. All that the gurus said is true. I don't dispute any of it. I just think that what a Coltrane or Monk had to do when playing in a Jazz club, was / is harder than what the principal player in a Symphony Orchestra has to do. Now, WE MIGHT THINK, that playing a violin is difficult, but it's not that difficult to the principal players. WE MIGHT THINK playing what Coltrane played was difficult, and IT WAS, for Coltrane. That's the difference. It's not easy to play what's in your head. Much easier to play what's on paper. WE are speaking of top notch players, where being able to play the horn is a given Don't believe me, read Nica's book. O-10: Any exchange of information is worthwhile. Cheers |
Schubert: *****Rok, all joking aside , you need some form of mental/emotional health care**** I get that a lot here on "Audiogon". In fact, your post is almost word for word, the first Post directed my way by our OP. Before he ever started this thread. The fact is, I am not crazy, I just speak the truth and Audiophiles think I'm crazy. Sort of like people's reaction to being in a clean air enviroment, it smells funny. I did have an frontal lobotomy in an attempt to be able to hear wire, and cable lifters, but it didn't work. I do appreciate your concern. Cheers |
O-10: Jazz from the 1950's?? Can you think of a better place to start than 'The 100 Best Jazz Tunes of the 1950's.? Kenny Dorham -- AFRODISIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7myLXPUBB_w CuBop? Cheers |
O-10: Did you notice how Clark Terry and Muddy Waters meshed so effortlessly? Someone once said, Cannonball maybe, "It's not the same thing, but it's from the same thing". Speaking of Blues and Jazz. Cannonball loved to talk. Two guys from the 50's that were rumored, to be able to play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVFLYz0SdKg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH3JpqhpkXg Aaron Copland - "Is there a meaning to music? Yes. Can you state in so many words what the meaning is? No." Cheers |
Shorter is Shorter. One of my favorites. Now I will have to listen to that CD today. I'll call your noise maker with a wok on his head, and raise you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7eeb1MTkUY If you aren't moving while this is playing, RUN, don't walk to the nearest ER. You may be dead. Cheers |
*****A simple yet incredible performance. Impossible for anyone to listen to this and not be moved I would think. Is it jazz?****** People of her era had to sing without the aid of electrical amplification. You filled the room by having a powerful voice. Sort of like Paul Robeson. Very moving song. Is it Jazz? I wouldn't say so. This and Jazz, are two branches on the same tree. But, she did perform at a lot of Jazz festivals, and that is The Duke on the cover. Let's just say, it's great music. Cheers |
*****The people claiming to save it, will be the one's who put it in a museum for preservation.****** Some of the people trying to save it, feel that, just because some guy paints a Soup Can, you don't go throw the Mona Lisa in the trash. That's all. Come to think, Jazz could learn something from the world of artist that paint. They hang Warhol's Soup Cans right next to Picasso's Guernica, which hangs right next to Rubens' Nudes and him next to da Vinci's Mona Lisa etc...... They value their Greats. Cheers |
O-10: I decided to try "This Here Is Bobby Timmons". His stuff is getting to be expensive on Amazon. Found this one in my collection. they were really Young when this was recorded. Great notes by Cannonball. He speaks of these guys as if he is introducing them to most of us. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kazM1KlaImY Cannonball also said this: "Modern Jazz obviously cannot and will not stand still. Modern Jazz traditionalists must realize that the music of Bird is only a logical stepwise development of that which has gone on before. Conversely, the Avant-garde cannot expect basic stylistic changes to develop among mature players through artifical stimuli; for the hysterical cry for change tends to give sancturary to charlatans." May be a little dated, but the last sentence is still very true!! Cheers |
*****Not sure whether you are serious or not; it is, of course, not true.****** Comes under the heading of "messin' with The Frogman". However I have never seen a conductor act like that. I like a show. Remember the French guy? Lenny? Being our resident Guru, of course we expect an explaination. Cheers |
Today's Listen: Art Blakey -- !!!!!impulse!!!!!art blakey!!!!!jazz messengers!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nghsczow3kM O-10, I agree with you once again. The best Jazz messengers group ever. Shorter, Timmons, Morgan and Fuller. I listened to it twice. Great playing by all. Why was there so much turnover in the groups? Did Blakey see that as his 'mission'? Was it by design? Talk. Cheers |
Two more from The Best of the 1950's. Too much bass? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cytUz9KkK9M Another one that fell to drugs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD2l7VwQpbg Cheers |
You know you like it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7xrQY_FLM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvzNeh4Mq1o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABfYZ6qxet8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRnxieda34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6blBC9Vo904 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SazTdJxwLI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbaSh8i5eyE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Lh4MFiw08 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWJVfEU0Mec Cheers |
Gato, 'The third World'. People have been arrested for less. Soundwave generators. Not Music. I confess to having at least one of his LPs. WTF was I thinking! GroverWashington: "Inner cityt blues" Not a bad player. Made enjoyable music. During the first heart transplant or artifical heart implant in the US, the Doctor had his "Inside Moves" piped into the OR. Not Jazz. Again, I confess to having some of his stuff. "Then and Now" and "Mister Magic" on CD. Also the Pop CD "Winelight". Soon you people will tire of trying to re-define the music. |
*****Rok, just as sure as the sun sets in the west and rises in the east, I could have predicted your post.****** I can only be me. I didn't like those guys back in the day. You said it yourself, we are exposed to, and programed, to hear certain music. Some things I just don't 'hear'. When I look thru my LP collection, I am amazed at some of the stuff I once thought was good. Examples: Grover Washington, Weather Report, Gabor Szabo, Lee Ritenour, Pat Metheny, Al di Meola, Herbie Mann, Stanley Jordan, Al Jarreau etc......... you get the drift. Just passing fads. So I have had my fill of noise makers. But, the great stuff never fades. It remains great forever. And I bought it all again on CD. Cheers |
***** I use the Aego sattelite/subw three piece system by Acoustic Energy and it sounds fantastic for what it is.***** I found them, and they look interesting, but I have only found them on UK sites. Will keep looking. The ones I have sound great, and get excellent reviews, but if there are better out there, I want them. What happened to J&R?? Cheers |
*****Weather Report "I Sing The Body Electric"; that took me to another dimension, or maybe another planet in a far away galaxy; I'm not sure where, ****** From the sounds of things, it was The BORG Home World. By Jove, I think the OP has been assimilated!! Zawinul, what happened to him? He was great while with Cannonball. Cheers |
Wynton under attack by female noise makers. Some good points, but female Jazz Trumpet players??? ahahahahahahah get serious!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFZ5JCZkuZ8 Cheers |
*****I had Herbie's album, I was into fusion at the time. I'll bet Rok had it as well, "Fusion" was a good idea at the time.*** Well, at one time I thought Fusion was Jazz. I dropped it about the same time I got rid of my Bell bottoms and Nehru Jacket. I hear Herbie Mann, I think Booker T and the MGs. All that Memphis stuff. Good to party to, not so great just to listen to. Cheers. |
**** Rok couldn't care less, **** I beg your pardon!! How did you come to that conclusion? I may not know anything about Jazz, but you can't accuse me of not caring. And another thing, you "aficionados" are leaving the 50/60's, and have not even mentioned Jutta Hipp. The baddest Frau in Jazz. Ties in with the 'female' thingy on Wynton. And besides, my lack of knowledge has never stopped me from posting my opinions! Cheers |
Ghosthouse: I have never heard of this group. I did google them after I read your post. I watched and listened to a clip of their concert in Paris. I thought it looked a little dated, then realized it was done in 1970!! These guys have been around forever. I then listened to "5". I should have listened to "5" first, because I thought it was pretty good. But first impressions are the most lasting, and that was the Paris gig. There, everything about them screamed "Rock". From the music to their appearance. I am not sure they are playing Jazz. That is, as I unbderstand Jazz. O-10 and The Frogman can better speak to that. I did find an interesting statement in one of the reviews on Amazon. Long ago, someone wrote, "Young people think that any instrumental music (without vocals), is Jazz." This has always stuck with me. This was back when Rock ruled. From Amazon Reviewer: "They took the crowd totally by surprise. Their performance was wordless, and contained very little vocal. It was just great playing, with improvisation, and, I learned later, a close relative of jazz fusion.". Thanks for the post. Cheers |
Now, Now, Frogman. You can't use the Masters that made LPs during the 70's (Joe Henderson), as being representative or typical of the music made during that era. Even I, have most of his stuff. You must stay with the guys who need haircuts and forgot to get their suits out of the cleaners. That's how the 70's were different. I agree on Hancock. But Lord, just compare them to MJQ in appearance. Why did they have to dress like that? Joe Henderson: That is serious Jazz cover art. Compared to Miles with the cartoon people. The Miles cover was a sign of the times. Cheers |
[Fusion: in popular music: combining different styles ] One of the definitions of FUSION. My question is, exactly what different styles or genres are being 'Fused' in Fusion-Jazz? And even more importantly, why? And since there are many genres, does the phrase. Fusion-Jazz, always mean the same combination? Cheers |
****There is no way ,at least for me, to categorize a decade. There was so much going on !!!!!****** People do it all the time. Roaring 20's ?? Proabley wasn't too much roaring going on in Idaho. But there was in NYC and Chicago. But they are still the roaring 20's. I am sure there are names for the 50s 60s and 70s. I am too lazy to google. The dominant theme is what we are looking at here. Marginal players and music does not count. The biggest blow could have been the demise of Blue Note. And yes Frogman, apparel does matter. It tells you a lot about the person's attitude towards the music they are playing. I can just see the NYPO in tank tops with' hip-hop' baseball caps. The women in cutoffs with rings in their noses. Should not affect their playing ability, but it sure would affect my reception and perception of any music they might play. Cheers |
Today's Listen: Mingus in Church. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaeVLd4G1Zg Tyner said Coltrane was too 'out there'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiI2ZHmxPPo Cheers |
*****Not exactly Coleman Hawkins***** The Frogman has a great gift for understatement! I did the WIKI thingy on the guys you said took over where Trane left off. Trane 'left off' about 2 light years South-East of the Orion Nebula. These guys 'started off with 'Rock-Jazz'. (WTF??) Media hype to the contrary, they are not seminal figures is Jazz. They followed the money and probably made a good living. Probably the smart thing for them to do. Trane's heirs? Not exactly!! Cheers |
We can all be thankful Kenny G does not have a 100 mil laying around. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/05/arts/david-geffen-captures-naming-rights-to-avery-fisher-hall-with-donation.html?_r=0 |
Weather Report: It ain't saying much, and the look on Shorter's face says it all. "Man this is BS". I can't detect any structure to the music. Everyone just playing. Check out the audience. If this had been BeBop, they would not have been there. This all boils down to Money. I don't begrudge a musician making money. Just don't call it Jazz. I have "Heavy Weather" and several more on LP. Saw no need to get them on CD. Cheers |
The Frogman: 1. I thought you / we were going to define 'fusion' first. 2. Wiki gave their background. That's all. I just don't think of guys who spent most of their time with POP and Rock bands, as carrying on where Trane left off. There was no one even near Trane when he 'left off'. He was out there all alone. I don't think that's a good thing, just fact. 3. This solo, that solo. What about, "body of work"? What have these folks contributed to Jazz? 4. I am not sure what you are referring to with the 'popular' comment. 5. The playing on Wynton and Clapton is superior to ANY 'Fusion' submitted by You and Acman3. Music is more than N&Bs. Thats the least important part of it. Cheers |
Brecker: "Other notable jazz and rock collaborations included work with Steely Dan, Lou Reed, Donald Fagen, Dire Straits, Joni Mitchell, Eric Clapton, Billy Joel, John Lennon, Aerosmith, Dan Fogelberg, Frank Sinatra, Frank Zappa, Bruce Springsteen, Roger Daltrey, and Parliament-Funkadelic." Liebman: seems to have spent most of his time in Europe. Most of his reputation stems from Europe. I wonder why? I never said the public knows best, I said, they decide. If they knew what is best, Fusion would never have happened Cheers. |
I thought we were talking about fusion. No sense posting Horace Silver, he was great in all decades. We all know this. Of course it is interesting that you go gaga over some guy named Bob Berg, while listening to Horace Silver. Makes a body wonder. Good Lord. Take away fusion, and there is nothing that unique about the 70's, except more of the greats had passed on. The ones playing in the 70's were as good as they were in the 60's. I have to admire the way you have deftly side-stepped the Fusion question. :) Now we are seeing Silver,Tyner and Henderson. lets get some Liebman and Brecker in here. Cheers |
The Frogman: **** so what is it "in detail" that is superior about other eras, and so lacking in some of what has been posted so far . **** As does Acman3, I will let my clips do my talking. If you can't hear a real difference, then I will accept that there is something wrong with me. Charlie Parker -- Donna Lee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02apSoxB7B4 Jaco Pastorius -- Donna Lee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4rfe5xHCIg Your comments are welcomed. Cheers Cheers |
Need input from Aficionados. John Coltrane -- Giant Steps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30FTr6G53VU Michael Brecker -- Giant Steps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhkb-_SEtxQ Cheers |
These guys try to copy Coltrane note for note. All in vain. John Coltrane -- Impressions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03juO5oS2gg Liebman, Brecker & Lovano -- Impressions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2trXF_ba0k Cheers |
