***** I choose to define what I heard as "Blah".*****
Well, we agree. But I didn't think it rose to the level of "Blah".
There was a time when Countries and societies and Cultures developed without outside influences or interference. Those days are long gone. With communications and travel being what they are these days, the Africans, and any other Third World country, have no chance of developing any music(Jazz) that is 'purely' Indigenous. And lets not forget the influence of MONEY.
Cheers |
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****You wouldn't be referring to Miles aunt, "Madam Corrine", would you?*****
The one and the same. Otherwise know as The OP's goto adviser on all things Jazz.
****"Terje Rypdal"; he takes you to the "Misty Mid Region of Weir*****
I wish I could go there.
****I'm finding interesting African Culture that probably existed before slavery; besides unique rhythms, each village had different dances. ******
There is a lot more to African history than just slavery. Let's just leave Jazz out of it.
I was thinking, Before the guys around Nawlins came up with Jazz, it did not exist ANYWHERE in the world. The next day seems as if it existed EVERYWHERE in the world. Must be one of them phenomenals.
Cheers |
*****That Japanese jazz was too stereotypical for me, it sounds like something I've heard a thousand and one times.***
No kidding? It could be because they imitate very well. But I am determined to push on. After we circumvent the globe, you might come to agree with me, that Jazz, nowadays, only has two legitimate sources, The US and Cuba. Most of the rest, is just soundwave generation.
Cheers |
The Youn Sun Nah clip was great. Really enjoyed it. BUT, the visual part was crucial to enjoying it. Not so sure I would like an entire CD of her. But watching and hearing her do her thing was great.
A duet with Bobby McFerrin would be very interesting. Throw in Jon Hendricks and we would have a BIG BAND!!
Cheers |
The Ulf Clip:
Nice playing. My problem is, I just can't form a mental picture of this type performance. I can SEE Mingus and Miles etc... along with hearing them. I guess you like him because, along with you and Spike Jones, he shares the same tailor.
Cheers |
Chris Hogwood died yesterday. Some of the oldest CDs I have, are of him conducting The Academy of Ancient Music. Mozart Symphonies. Another one that I was introduced to by Stereo Review.
Cheers |
Today's Listen: Lest we forget what the real thing sounds like. When Oscar brings his A-game, he is without peer. This CD, is his A-Game. "Cleanhead" plays Alto only. No vocals. :( Oscar Peterson -- OSCAR PETERSON+HARRY EDISON+EDDIE"CLEANHEAD" VINSON http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCX7oHbyNVUEllington & Basie -- DUKE ELLINGTON MEETS COUNT BASIE I have had this one a while. Just received a SACD copy. The Basie and Ellington playing together. What else is there to say? Priceless banter during the recording session!! Also the pictures in the booklet are wonderful. Can there be a better job in music than playing Trumpet in the Ellington or Basie Band???? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLaxVQvwcOICheers |
****In regard to your current picks, while Oscar Peterson is Mr. piano, he always played too many notes for me,*****
That puts him right up there with Mozart!! Not bad company.
I guess some players don't consider 'silence' to be part of the music. Miles did.
Cheers |
Fred Kaplan--
****He often writes about jazz and hi-fi equipment for Stereophile.*****
*****It has probably introduced more listeners (certainly audiophiles) to jazz than any other record.*****
This alone makess it suspect.
***** From 1978 to 1980, he was a foreign and defense policy adviser to Representative Les Aspin.*****
The worst Sec Defense in American history.
I guess I should have done a wiki on this guy before I posted. If he writes for Stereophile, and was involved with Les Aspin at DoD, I would not have posted it.
I guess he is another Anthony Cordesman. Jack of all trades, master of none.
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****it's just that my mind went from one thing to another; kind of like "Dis, Dat, and De udder"****
It's call Attention Deficit Disorder.
O-10, after reading your post I am not sure what Jazz 'camp' you are in. Are you saying current Jazz is too inclusive, tolerant and accepting, or not inclusive enough?
You are welcome to join Wynton and me, at "Save Our Music"!!:)
Cheers |
Well, just keep on pushing those soundwave folks. The day will come when Real Jazz will no longer be available, and the Soundwave Police will have confiscated all your Jazz collections and melted them down. When that day comes, don't come running down here to my Jazz Bunker, begging for a few bars of Basie, or a couple measures of Miles. Don't come running to the Rok then!! Let's allow Miss Nina to tell it. She tells it so good! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH3Fx41Jpl4Cheers Roking Horse. Not bad. :) |
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Interesting article about the Saxophone is the October issue of BBC Music magazine. Celebrating the 200th birthday of Adolphe Sax, the inventor of the Saxophone.
Slow acceptance into classical music, save the French Composers. Tells it's entire history, esp in Jazz.
Ronald McNair, the Astronaut, took a sax on the last CHALLENGER Mission to be the first to record new music in space. A piece composed by Jean Jarre. Of course, CHALLENGER exploded. McNair was described as "a very accomplished saxophonist". A sad day.
Cheers |
Today's Listen: Lester Young -- LESTER YOUNG-THE JAZZ GIANTS The name says it all. A few more giants on board such as Roy Eldridge, Jo Jones, and Teddy Wilson. Lester Young was to be my first review of Jazz in Mississippi. Only 5 tracks. Quality over Quanity. Sort of refreshing hearing this style sax blowing. With all due respect to Bird and Trane. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8cFxKVYC7ACheers |
****This is music Christ and the Apostles were listening to, all the way live, not some Baptist music out of Nawlins or Mississippi, ******
And after listening to a few tunes like this, The Good Lord inserted into the Good Book, "Make a JOYFUL noise unto the Lord". Which is what them Baptist Churches do!!
I find your tone towards Baptist churches in Mississippi and Nawlins rather dismissive. :) Know Baptist Church, Know Jazz. No Baptist Church, No Jazz. Lest we forget.
Cheers |
****Sometimes in music, it can sound even better when you don't understand the language; *****
This is true. Esp in Opera. Where quite often, all they are saying is "keep your cotton pickin' paws off my woman". But they say it so beautifully.
Cheers |
****I especially remember "Round Midnight", every time I hear it, I can see that photograph of him on the cover with shades, you know the one;*****
Yes indeed!! The baddest cover in Jazz, or at least one of the baddest. In fact, my most recent purchase by Miles. 2 CD set.
Cheers |
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You folks are sure concerned about my state of hydration! The ROKING horse has his own private water hole. The water is pure here. No foreign, no free, no Avant garde, no fusion, no continental, no experimental, no crossover, no M-base, no third stream, no Sinbad Miles, no out-there Trane, and damn little Cool and Modal.
Actually, it's called JAZZ. You folks should try it.
Cheers |
Southern Comfort-- I am always suspicious of music that "requires" visuals to make it seem complete. The wife likes it, but she likes recordings of birds and waves. :)
Cheers |
Paris Texas -- I have this on LP. Could not bring myself to spring for it on CD. This is the most beautiful thing about the music. The only part I had to have. Check out the Mexican singing. Beautiful!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5BhhF7yiQI did download this from Amazon on MP3. I have my favorite parts of this, Peter Gunn, and Mission Impossible on MP3. Play them in my truck. One of the weirdest movies I have ever seen. Also have Cooder with some guy in Africa. Cheers |
Read and heed. Anathema to sound wave generators everywhere.
"I think the audience for Jazz can be widened if we strengthen our work with structure. If there is more of a reason for what is going on, there'll be more over-all sense and therefore, more interest for the listener....The improvised and written sections should not take on too much complexity---the total effect must be within the mind's ability to appreciate through the ear. Also the music will have to swing, but remember that all music must do this, must have a meaningful rhythmic sense.." John Lewis, MJQ
From the notes of, MJQ: THE EUROPEAN CONCERT. Got it yesterday. Excellent. Seems as if the Good Lord will always send the right stuff at the right time. :)
Cheers |
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Cecile McLorin Salvant-- she has been in my 'CART' on amazon for quite a while, but when I place an order, she always seems to get bumped back to the 'save for later' list.
Tonight after reading the latest posts here, I checked back at Amazon. Several of the reviewers there are comparing her to Ella, Sarah and Billie. One even suggested she was beyond those divas. This of course, causes my BS alarm to quiver.
Sometimes it best to wait for the second album, so as to see if the artist is still a genius. But, our OP swears by her, so that's good enough for me. Next order, she will be on the list.
OLD Jazz is not dead, anymore than old Classical music is dead. Greatness always stands the test of time. Today, Octber 2014, we are talkking about the greatest Jazz album. I guess we should be disccusing the latest sound waves and irritating noises from young folks. But, we are not. We are talking about two albums recorded decades ago, by players, all of whom, or at least the vast majority of whom, are dead.
OLD Jazz is not dead. It is as alive as Mozart and Beethoven and Bach...... As long as we have the CDs and Records, they live!!!
Have you noticed how we ALL speak of these people in the present tense?? Says it all. |
Ditching the glasses would be a big improvement.
Cheers |
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I,ME, MYSELF, preferred the Tunes and the solos on SE. Case closed. End of discussion. Nothing you can say will change that. That's called a fact of life. You cannot determine and dictate what other people like.
***"I like it better" doesn't cut it*****
Millions of people saying "I like it better", is why it's the best selling Jazz album of all time!!! It does cut it!!
Netflix time. More later.
Cheers |
****Please reread my posts with a more open mind; you might learn something*****
Your arrogance is breathtaking!! I have learned that!
I noticed you just 'ignored' all the points I made, that shot your diatribe to pieces. Typical.
Cheers |
***** To relegate KOB to simply audiophile fodder is absurd and serves only to deny yourself a more in-depth and insightful understanding of the subtleties being discussed and presented. ******
Do you do this on purpose? I did not 'relegate' KOB to anything. I offered an opinion as to why it's so popular among so-called "audiophiles". IOW, the folks on this forum. Don't put words in my mouth. I try to be very concise. |
****To suggest that a meaningful conclusion can be drawn from asking "what the best fruit is" other than one person'a opinion is simply shallow thinking when there is so much to consider.*****
You posed the metaphor, I just gave examples of when the comparisons between unlike things would be appropriate. I thought that would be evident. Guess not. "Shallow Thinking?? hahahha I think the shrinks call that "projection".
And the only thing to 'consider' is which CD you liked best. That's all there is. Your reasons for liking one over the other is interesting, but does not trump other opinions. Of course you have never been known to use 20 words when 2000 will do. |
Solomon was correct.
Chet Baker, maybe the public understood him and just didn't like his stuff. OMG!!! Maybe he was so cool he was frozen. Maybe he put folks to sleep. Maybe he spent more time getting high than playing high notes.
If you are an artist and you crave success, then you have to do whatever it takes to grab the audience (public). At least in order to then lead them your way. If you think its all about YOU, and they can take you or leave you, then shut up!!
Seems as if brother Baker played in a style that even he said, 98% of the public, did not like or understand. Strange Logic. I guess he was true to himself. I'll take Pops, with his fast, high note, loud, playing self. I'll put on Baker when I'm trying to get some sleep. At least I would if I owned any of his stuff.
Cheers |
First, Rok said this:
"Millions of people saying "I like it better", is why it's the best selling Jazz album of all time!!! It does cut it!!"
Then The Frogman said:
"Importantly, in all the subsequent audiophile-bashing in this discussion, not once was the other reason that KOB has become an audiophile fave mentioned: it sounds so darn good (as well as being fairly accessible and good jazz)."
Oooops!!! There he goes again!!
Cheers |
The Frogman Says:
"As I have pointed out there is a lot of nuance involved in all this and to undertand it makes one a better judge of not only the music, but of ulterior motives one may have for insisting on keeping oneself in one "camp" or another."
Rok Says:
Being aware of 'nuances' is not going to make me change my likes and dislikes when it comes to music. Music does not work like that.
You know all this stuff, and seem to think that if only we knew it as well, we would like different music. No, we would not!!
What reaches your ears, and the impact it makes on the listener, is all there is. The rest is just nice to know information.
Cheers |
"I pointed out that KOB has probably introduced. more audiophiles to jazz than anything else. You then take that comment as an opportunity to bash audiophiles. Gee, I thought it was a positive that audiophiles might be exposed to jazz."
I disagree with this. I have no proof, but I do read the threads on this forum. I have seen countless posts about the lastest 'audiophile' recordings and downloads of folks like the Beatles, Miles ,mainly KOB.
I have never seen audiophiles going gaga over recordings of Mingus, Hubbard, Rollins, MJQ .... I can't name everyone, but you get the drift.
KOB has introduced 'Audiophiles' to KOB. It does seem to have gone any further. Not a criticism, just my observation. Maybe not even factual, but I would bet my Tiny Tim box set on it being true.
Bashing 'Audiophiles'?? Can you think of a group more deserving of being bashed? Mind you, I did not say music lovers.
Cheers |
Cecile: Wow! http://www.npr.org/2013/06/05/188941161/c-cile-mclorin-salvant-making-old-songs-new-againCheck out the names. Fats Waller, Bessie Smith and even Valaidia Snow. I like her style!! I just hope there is a sufficient audience in this country to ensure her success. If not, she could still be big in Europe, esp if she can sing in French. It's amazing how many clips of her are on youtube. Esp considering how short a time she has been performing. Cheers |
Lest we forget:
The OP's original intent:
Jazz for aficionados
"I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record........While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us."
If you are going in a different direction, then a new thread is in order. Because, "Jazz for Aficionados" is more a 'conversation' than an 'Audiophile' type Thread. This is like guys in the barber shop.:)
Cheers |
O-10:
When I first became aware of Cecile, I was sort of put off by the album cover, I sort of dismissed her as some hip-hop type person. mainly because of the glasses. That shows the fallacy of assumptions!! I was wrong.
After listening to the youtubes, I see what you mean when you said she was giving my 'Old Jazz' a reprieve. I think she shows great promise.
HOWEVER, since she has been 'accused' of sounding like, not just Sarah, not just Billie, not just, (be still my racing heart), ELLA!!, but all three of them at the same time!!!! WOW!!
Apparently she is more awesome than I ever imagined.
I ordered her CD. We have to support the young folks who are trying to keep the flame alive. The flame of the true art.
I am not sure, to which African youtubes you are referring.
Cheers |
The African Youtubes:
I agree with you. The sound is just too monotonous. Maybe the music is just not sophisticated in structure. Good for maintaining voodoo trances?
Damn. When I typed that, my keyboard stopped working for a moment. :)
On the positive side, she will not have to worry about being accused of sounding like Ella.
Do you realize that Acman3 submitted a post/youtube about Cecile over a year ago!! I was not paying attention. What do you think of Porter?
Cheers |
O-10: Another relative newcomer. You know much about him? Such as, why does he wear that silly headgear? The clip shows nice street scenes of NYC. Don't think I could live in a place with that many people. And of course, the great Cassandra Wilson. Another Mississippian. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g3kXyKNXsMEnjoy. Cheers |
Learsfool:
The major problem is that some people seem to think that every word uttered on this thread has to 'pass muster' with them, and some school house teachings. I beg to disagree. Read the OP's opening statement, which I just re-posted. This thread is about talking about and sharing music we love.
Now, to impart information in a courteous, and helpful way is one thing, and it's appreciated. But to say, I don't know what I'm talking about when I express my preferences and thoughts on certain CDs is just hubris. He is so quick to 'correct' everyone, that he misses a lot of that is being said.
EXAMPLE:
I submitted a post from the BBC proms. "Bolero" with the Spanish dancers. I had never seen it danced to, so I thought it would be interesting to share. (BTW,they also happened to be Stone Foxes.) What did the Frogman say? "That was not a very good Bolero". So he sends a clip of some uptight German Orch playing the 'perfect'(his word) Bolero.
The point was not the orchestra! Not the Bolero! It was the dancing!!! Hell, the orchestra was even blacked out. In the dark. It was the dancers!! He missed it. Didn't get it. He even said the horns were out of tune on the French orchestra's Water/Fire music thingy.
He has the Audiophile mentality that says, always criticize and nit-pick everything said.
You read the forums, you know what I mean. Someone says UP, the audiophile MUST say DOWN. You say Right, they say left. You say Left, then they say right. It's almost like an kneejerk. Read his post of 10-5-14.
No one said musicians don't like or listen to audio. The inference was that they don't waste time with, or believe in all the typical 'audiophile' voodoo / magical / nonsense.
The best example of this I have ever seen, was a photo of the Jazz group, Lambert, Hendricks and Ross, at work, All sitting in folding chairs listening intently to an LP being played on a child's toy record player, sitting on the floor. Something that can be purchased at TOYs R US.
The point is, what a real musician needs to get out of recorded music, does not cost very much.
***** who are willing to engage in serious dialogue with you about the music you love, why you do persist in making these type of statements?*****
That statement is very condescending, but, accurate protrayal of certain attitudes. It is also, at the root of most of the conflict on this thread. If I am WILLING, then you, should ........
*****Or poking fun because they don't have as expensive a system as you? They probably don't have near the income you do, either. *****
I am not sure I understand this statement. For the record, My 'expensive' system consists of a Harman Kardon receiver, and Polk speakers. I can assure you, it's the least expensive system on this entire forum. My income is Social Security. :( You must be talking about that guy with the off shore bank accounts, O-10! :)
Thanks for the post.
Cheers |
Acman3:
Funny you should mention that CD, I placed it on order earlier today. Also, "The Quintessential Billie Holiday Vol.5".
Thanks for the input.
Cheers |
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There's always something to buy! Never heard of this until tonight. Now I have to have the DVD, if it exists. Love Christmas music. I wonder if The Frogman is in this one? Am I the only one that didn't know of Ellington's Nutcracker Suite? Fess up! They seem to alternate between Ellington and Tchaikovsky. I have a CD titled 'Ellintgon's Suites', but there is no Nutcracker. Check out the introduction clip to this performance. Could be the Frogman speaking! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56axsTAmQXM&index=10&list=PLC4A8C3838EF48C81Cheers |
Is that 'Prez' on the Basie clip?
Cheers |
**** him and his aunt Corrine are playing games with me.****
You better stop messin' with that woman. I suggest you sprinkle some Snake Dust all on your floor, and get you a black candle, and a Catfish fin. Then you might stand a chance. But if you find Dr John sitting on your front porch, it's toooo late.
Remember, Miles woke up one day, and found himself dressed like Sinbad The Sailor. Taught him a lesson. Or as they say down home, "That'll learn ya"!
Cheers |
Stanley Turrentine "I Told Jesus":
Great tune, Even greater painting of the church women. I think I will have to find this one for my collection.
The Good Lord and Jazz, a match made in heaven.
Cheers |
Learsfool:
Forgot to mention. The piece of music in question is: Paganini's Violin Concerto No 1.
Cheers |
Today's Listen: Sonny Rollins -- SONNY ROLLINS PLUS 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIlpEnsa2d8Clifford Brown died a few months after this was recorded. I think this was his last time on record. Great, but short!! The CD is finished before you know it. Another effect from the LP era. On the bright side, it forced players to 'speak' quickly. Could use some of that today. Cheers |
