Jazz for aficionados
Here is an interesting album recorded in Bags' later years. Top shelf band with James Moody displaying how the flute is played: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGFkEUQlEn4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpdDNnTb5cU More Moody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z17rg9HeNFE |
In this crazy world this is not just musical oasis...lot’s of nice songs guys...Thanks MJ here's one for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVgONy8kMY |
acman that is great artistry I am sure not all will agree but I do and here are some of my "artistic" favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uj8IIzbrv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zuEfmmCA5s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEfS98F89Ho |
o10 I first heard MCMXC A.D. by Enigma at an all nude strip bar in Florida in 1991. Imagine a beautiful nude woman dancing seductively to that song about 3 feet away from you. Every time I hear that song I think of her and I never forgot her face. She put on a robe and came down and had a drink with me. I was 27 years old and now I am 56 but I can still remember our conversation, her eye's, and that pretty face all these years later. |
So I went back to the last week of May 2016 through the first week of June 2016 and the bickering back then was even worse then it is now. Actually way worse.. Jazz for aficionados | Audiogon Discussion Forum It seems some things never change but at least it mellowed out a lot...... |
I like all the Cuban infusion/influenced "jazz". You can certainly dance to most of it. frogman what is the difference (if there is) between "Afro Cuban" and "Cuban jazz" Anyway Paquito has always been a favorite of mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buTkisOr2tY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmuL0X1OzjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj5mSYUpqX0 |
Habana is my favorite Roy Hargrove album. Gets lots of repeated listening's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6FA5to0BKI&list=PLG7X1bcLhgVImVYs4nhADQnSzHZ1Tsew0 |
Miguel Zenon is a favorite of mine as well. Not Cuban (born in Puerto Rico) but nevertheless I think he’s a fantastic player/composer/arranger. "The Puerto Rican Song Book" studio session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-l-9ucvSrI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWR-HB6L8AI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mhpe7t1wa0 Live session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nntTr-uT5Q4&list=PL-QYPAh7r9fxHynEtAP8EjYFhHMzGRAwB |
o10 Enigma has been called "mood music". I’m not sure why. I do know I have to be in a melancholy mood to listen to them. The phrases and chanting are always spaced correctly in correlation to the rhythmic percussion. "Return To Innocence" as well as MCMXC had some "commercial success" but you can take any one of their discs and play it in full with your lady friend in a candle lit room to enhance your intimacy session. Every song seems to be good for the "mood" Return To Innocence extended play with an awesome video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY5xjlTZuJw |
mary_jo especially for you, the typical Roadrunner cartoon where poor Wile E Coyote struck by everything except lightning and falls thousands of meters with the "poof" sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCJwcNmGxRc |
Hi all You can stream WKCR here: https://www.cc-seas.columbia.edu/wkcr/story/online-streaming-and-running# |
acman I really liked that Mike Nock/Laurenz Pike - 'Kindred' clip. Its like a musical abstract painting. I have a lot of ECM label discs with similar music. Artists seem to flock to ECM to express what they are experimenting on and ECM likes this. Pink Floyd was to rock as the ECM label musicians are to jazz. I remember my younger days smoking mary jane and hash while listening to Pink Floyd's mesmerizing long psychedelic jams. Echoes is my favorite Pink Floyd song followed by everything they ever recorded in no particular order. Here is David Gilmour with Richard Wright performing Echoes in Gdansk Poland 2006. Wright passed away 2 years later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMneCi9F_UQ The Great Gig In The Sky is another Floyd song I would blast in my bedroom. My mom came in and said it was beautiful. I'll never forget that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVBCE3gaNxc |
Great pick alec. Although they did not get along Getz and Baker played many recording sessions together both studio and live and I found the music, for the most part, very good. Here is one in my collection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ZK6XUxHek&list=PL1vTNGM5zLFdpEOwfU3g60HiQOdgLCESa |
o10 I have been to Ipanema many times. I hope one day both you and mary_jo get there. Ipanema lies just south of Copacabana beach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-YnyZG8fNU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-vlX8uRLMQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ca1ctUkU3Q |
Hey alex I have those Sam Jones albums. I have "The Chant" as well. The Chant has a stellar lineup as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7pg-CSPwqg personnel:
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Hey frogman thanks for the Artie Shaw documentary link. Watching it now. Inna that Gary Moore is fantastic. Great player. The Messiah Will Come Again was written by one of my favorite Guitar players - Roy Buchanan (always used the Telecaster) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deeBQZ8Aklc Mary_jo You know how I feel about Jeff Beck. Other then Jimi Hendrix he is the most creative and diverse to ever strap on a guitar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5OT7f5hetM |
Hey alex I am doing well. I have been staying home for 3 weeks now. are I hope you and everyone else here healthy and doing well in this difficult time of Covid pandemic. Love is a dangerous necessity.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxgeZ-RucH4 |
Not Texas talk but down south talk from my favorite movie (33) Cool Hand Luke Car Wash scene - YouTube |
Thanks frogman for the response. Short but very informative Leibman interview. Leibman talks about a few of the classical composers who have written scores with a lot of dissonance and I have sampled a lot of it this past year when I expanded my musical boundaries into the realm's of Mahler, Dvorak, Bruckner, Sibelius, Nielsen, Grieg, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Korsakov, Borodin, Stravinsky and Tchaikovsky (basically all of the great classical composers from 1800 - 1950) along with the dissonance of Schoenberg and others of those mentioned by Leibman. That said, I still have trouble with enjoying dissonant music whether it is classical or jazz but it is not for a lack of trying. I would much rather listen to Nikolai Rimsky Korsakov's Sheherazade then Arnold Schoenberg's Suite, Op.29. I would much rather listen to Coltrane's Giant Steps then Ascension. Changing the subject but still on topic (jazz not classical), this is a great 12 minute video of musician Rick Beato sharing his short but very interesting and insightful relationship with Michael Brecker. (Elvin Jones as well). The way in which Beato emphasizes the greatness of Brecker reminded me of a few of your Brecker posts. |
Hi Stuart Limited doses of atonal/dissonance works for me as well. This is a live version (sounds nothing like the studio release) of Coltrane's Crescent with Pharoah Sanders alternating with Trane. The first 3 minutes you think its a melodic song unfolding nicely and then the dogs are let off the chains! |
I was saddened to hear of Lee Konitz's passing last week. I have been listening to all of my Konitz discs repeatedly since his passing. He recorded so many good albums. This Covid 19 will definitely take the lives of elderly men and women much faster then those under 70 (who took car of themselves). A lot of people here on Long Island NY have been recovering without a hospital stay. I hope all the members here are safe in these troubling times of health and financial crisis. |
These older Baritone players mentioned above sound wonderful to me. I was born in 1963, grew up in the 70's-80's listening mostly to the rock and roll/metal of that time. I came to like jazz when I turned 40. Since then I have bought over 400 jazz cd's, 2/3 being the older stuff and 1/3 musicians active now. Living just 1 hour from NYC I get to see a lot of the active jazz musicians live. I would have to ask the members posting about Baritone players why James Carter was not mentioned. I have seen him live 5 times, own every cd he recorded, and he is simply incredible on Tenor, Alto, Soprano, and Baritone, which I believe he won best Baritone player a few years ago (not sure which) by Down Beat Magazine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIq1AVOclIE |
@ waldemar^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kind of Blue has at least 50 different pressings.The link posted above by frogman is a good place to start. I have the 2009 Legacy version and its a pretty good pressing. I also have an sacd hybrid pressed in Japan that's awesome but it is out of print and costly. I would try this one cant go wrong for 26 bucks. Also the legacy is still fairly cheap on Amazon. http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/SICP-10083?s_ssid=e415605ac29e328409 |
To those asking about James Carter or JC as we call him here are a few good cd's to get. https://www.amazon.com/At-Crossroads-James-Carter/dp/B005HWUC04/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&q... https://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Earth-James-Carter-Medeski/dp/B00FZ0RU9Y/ref=pd_sbs_15_6?_encoding=UTF... https://www.amazon.com/Carter-James-Organ-Nowhere-Modern/dp/B00KJJL5Z6/ref=pd_sbs_15_5?_encoding=UTF... https://www.amazon.com/Layin-Cut-James-Carter/dp/B00004TJ94/ref=pd_sbs_15_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd... |
A young JC at Carnegie Hall center stage with another great modern sax player Joshua Redman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-00h49-YDE&list=RDMMn-00h49-YDE |
Great JC interview in Jazztimes: https://jazztimes.com/reviews/gearhead/james-carter-blows-through-saxophone-history/ Sonny Rollins says about Carter "that's my man." Carter also is a collector of rare saxophone's many of them used by some of the greatest to ever blow! |
rok2id |
frogman check out this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUFLjQ1I408 I was at this show 3 1/2 years back and it was no let down!! JC, Pharoah Sanders and Odean Pope http://www.bluenote.net/newyork/schedule/moreinfo.cgi?id=12258 bluesy41 I have seen Redman and Garrett numerous times. One of the perks of living 1 hour from NYC with all them jazz venues. I was backstage with sweet papa Lou Donaldson a few years back shooting the s**t for an hour. Lou loves boxing and baseball so we had plenty to discuss. He said he was at the Polo Grounds when Bobby Thompson hit the "shot heard round the world" |
Lou Donaldson and Dr. Lonnie Smith the Hammond B3 master. By the way Lou is also a good comedian! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r6M0Pl-KqE Lou use to play all the time with Lonnie until about 10 years back. I guess he went on stage here to support the Blue Note 75 years anniversary. I asked him why he don’t gig with Lonnie anymore and he said Lonnie is nuts. I have seen Lonnie 6 times and he never disappoints. |
frogman buy the James Carter cd "Out of Nowhere" its live and the song "Highjack" alone is worth the 25 bucks. Here is a review of the album on Amazon that is spot on about JC's critics: This is probably a four star CD, but I'm giving it five in order to compensate for all the critics of James Carter who don't seem to know what they are listening to. This is JAZZ, which, my friends, is built on the tradition of individual virtuosity, spontaneity, free improvisation and group interplay ("blowin'," "chops," "blowin' sessions," "jam sessions," "saxophone duels," "trading fours," etc.) One-upmanship and proving your chops have always been essential aspects of jazz improvisation. Louis Armstrong, Dizzie Gillespie, Charlie Parker, Bud Powell, Sonny Rollins, etc., etc., etc. were all show-offs and exhibitionists (and all the other names that are intended as insults to Carter). Now everyone agrees that Carter is the most talented and virtuosic jazz performer alive today, but somehow this isn't good enough. It's not enough for him to be the Louis Armstrong of our generation, but he has to be the Duke Ellington and Billy Strayhorn as well. The objection that Carter lacks a unified and coherent style or musical sensibility strikes me as both hollow (lack of unity and coherence IS his style) and, in a postmodern world, dated. And to those who cite a lack of feeling and emotion in his playing, I'm not sure what to say to such vague and subjective criticisms, other than that they might be confused by the wide range of feeling in his playing. |
rok2id The majority of jazz aficionados like I said up thread are "stuck" in the old days listening to the greats of the 1940 -1970 era. Your statement above simplifies my response. Name ONE sax player today that you think is as good as the old timers? Name ONE trumpet player? ONE piano player? ONE bass player? ONE drummer? I for example have 20 plus Art Blakey cd’s. Jeff Tain Watts, a modern drummer has a total of 5-6 cd’s recorded under his own name. Does that make Watts inferior to Blakey? Times change. Back in the day when jazz was popular the musicians were constantly in the studios recording. Miles Davis once recorded 3 albums in less the a week to finish his contract with Prestige Records to accept an offer from Columbia. Its not quantity that counts but quality. I have about 50 Coltrane cd’s counting box sets and 75 Miles cd’s counting box sets. Name ONE player in todays time that will ever put out so much material. No doubt in my mind Trane was the best with Parker,Rollins, Hawkins, Getz, Pepper et al grouped behind Trane in no particular order. But JC could definitely hold his own with many of the old timers including Sonny Stitt, Jackie Mclean, Pharoah Sanders, and yes, even Dexter Gordon. Likewise Stanley Clarke could hold his own with Charles Mingus on bass to name a modern bass representative. Jeremy Pelt and Roy Hargrove come very close to Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Kenny Dorham and Donald Byrd on trumpet Plus I get to see all of these guys live and is that not the best way to listen to jazz? |
Joe Lovano is another example of an extremely talented modern sax player. I had a chance to see him several times but something always came up. I have a few of his recordings. I saw Eric Alexander at Smoke Jazz Club NYC with Jimmy Cobb on drums about 6 years ago. Cobb signed my Kind of Blue cd plus 2 of his. Alexander was great that night running through some old standards. I have a handful of his recordings too. That night was the old school Cobb who played on KOB with the new school players. Jazz still lives!! |
By the way, Art Pepper who I mentioned above is one of my favorite "old timers" I have about 20 cd's of his including the legendary comeback box set at the Village Vangaurd. He was tormented by heroin addiction (as were a lot of jazz musicians at one time or another). I highly recommend his autobiography "Straight Life" its one of the best book I have ever read. He came in 2nd to Charlie Parker as downbeat magazines best alto player like 4 years in a row. I believe he even won it one year when Parker was in a rut from the heroin. https://www.amazon.com/Straight-Life-Story-Art-Pepper/dp/0306805588/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&a... He was strung-out as he put it, as he ran out of dope and forgot the photographer was coming that morning but he pulled himself together for the session and the photo on the cover is from that session!! |
"No one thinks ’Bass player’ when Mingus’ name is mentioned.. He was so much more than that. Ellington: Piano player?" Now if you include the word influential when describing great jazz artist I see your point. Ellington, Mingus, and Thelonious Monk, who you left out (surely you jest) were highly creative and influential composers in which you cannot say that about all jazz musicians. Bird played mostly standards but he was one of the greatest all time with that alto. Duke Ellington had to be creative and influential. He had a club to run and shows to put on every night. Again, different eras. So yes, I understand what you mean but only a small percentage of the "old school" jazz artists were unique, creative, influential, ect. The ratio of standards/originals that most of the older jazz artists had on their albums was the same back then as it is today. As far as jazz artists post 1970 - Do they sell a lot or records? No. They love what they do and keep jazz alive for those few of us that still know what it takes to be jazz artist. They also do way more session work as hired guns then the old timers. It helps them get by. The most influential musician of all time,with just 4 released studio albums, who was also the best on his instrument was Jimi Hendrix IMHO. But your point was made and taken. |
BTW i've seen Stanley Clarke live and he can play the hell out of the upright bass But I do agree with rok2id about Charles Mingus. I do not think bass player but I do think composer,& bandleader . Agreed nsp. I saw the Return to Forever reunion tour about 10 years back with Clarke on bass of course plus 2 more x at the Iridium and Blue Note. He can compose and does have many originals but he is no Charles Mingus when it comes to composing/band leader! |
nsp- "I second your recommendation of Art Pepper's "Straight Life" autobiography" His drug addiction antics, although they seem funny when reading the book, were actually very sad. Stan Getz' autobiography also is filled with dope antics. Getz never did any significant jail time like Pepper did. San Quentin and hanging out with gangsters while serving years all in Art Peppers book! frogman- "Music reflects the time of its creation and in many ways it was a simpler time back then" Just quoting your last sentence that was an overall excellent post frogman. pryso- " My interest in jazz developed during the late '50s and '60s, so no surprise that is what I still love best. At the same time, I try to be open to what fallowed, right up to the present I did not start listening to jazz until 2002-3, when I turned 40 but of course my first few years I collected the material of all the "old school greats" then started hitting the jazz clubs in NYC and really digged most of the bands I saw so I like the old and new equally. bluesy41-"but that doesn’t mean that I don’t feel that my brother Christian McBride isnt the greatest upright bass player I’ve ever heard. I saw McBride once I believe he was playing bass at a Jeff tain Watts show I saw about 8 years ago. It would be hard to choose either him or Stanley Clarke over one or the other. I saw Esperanza Spalding at the Apollo Theater and she plays electric and upright bass awesome. She is almost at the same level as some of the male greats plus she can sing really well. And don't forget about Jaco Pastorious or Victor Wooten when talking about bass players!! |
nsp- Coltrane left halfway through the tour and was replace by Sonny Stitt. I have all of these concerts on separate cd's already so I have no need for the new "bootleg" set. The Coltrane interview is from the Stockholm cd here. https://www.amazon.com/Stockholm-1960-Complete-Miles-Davis/dp/B00000AW2R/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=U... This 4 disc set is awesome you get The March 1960 concert with Coltrane on tenor. Sometime later he left the European tour to get started with his new band which, after some changes in musician personnel, was settled by 1961 with the famous Impulse Recording production lineup of Elvin Jones on percussion, McCoy Tyner on piano, and Reggie Workman, shortly replaced Permanently by Jimmy Garrison on bass. The return October 1960 concert at Stockholm had Sonny Stitt on both tenor and alto. Miles was not to happy with this arrangement. |
nsp Stan Getz A Life in Jazz author Donald L. Maggin https://www.amazon.com/Stan-Getz-Life-Donald-Maggin/dp/0688155553/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&... I bought the hardcover version many years back its costly now but the softcover above has a great price. |
Most of the jazz vocal cd’s I have use woman on the vocals: Billy Holiday Sarah Vaughn Nina Simone Ella Fitzgerald Julie London Anita O’Day Astrud gilberto And the ones still singing: Diana Krall Jacintha Eliane Elias Cassandra Wilson Dianne Reeves Esperanza Spalding Lady Kim Here are 2 from Lady Kim (Kim Zombik) I choose because most of you probably never heard of her. She does all of her studio work in Japan with Japanese bands backing her. I have 3 sacd’s of hers that were recorded in Japan and the sound is beautiful to put it lightly. Kim posted under the first video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJER2tY7C-Y And another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HD0d7C3CVY Here is one of the Lady Kim sacd’s I have (the price tag is wac now!) https://www.amazon.com/Autumn-Leaves-Lady-Kim/dp/B000EGD0C0/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1... Just something about a good female jazz vocalist sends me to heaven! |
Most of the conversation/debate above can be summed up by looking at the recording career of Miles Davis, who I believe, over the long run through his contract with Columbia Records, made more money then any other jazz musician in history on recordings. Yet he still was constantly evolving in his music. He considered staying in the same musical comfort zone blasphemy. Eventually he did not even want to call his music jazz anymore. This is evident progressively in all of his years recording. Starting out when be bop was the in thing he recorded on sessions with Charlie Parker and others. He then went into be bop/ hard bop so you could say he played mostly be bop/hard bop from 1945-1958, when he started to experiment with modality on the title track from the Milestones recording. Kind of Blue was based entirely on modality followed by Sketches of Spain based on Spanish folk music. Constantly evolving you could easily here the freshness of what he played from 1965-68 with Shorter, Hancock, Carter, and Williams. These 4 years saw Miles helping pioneer the post bop genre with more abstract recordings. He then moved into his electric and avant garde recordings In A Silent Way and Bitches Brew. Continuing forward using predominately electric recordings into a jazz/funk/rock type fusion, which, in my opinion was clearly predominant on the Cellar Door Sessions and Agharta. I had quite the listening session last night with Agharta disks 1 and 2, in which I have imported Japanese pressings and the sound is amazing. The music on Agharta takes you on a hour and forty five minute (both discs) "trip" through some amazing music. So, IMHO, Miles' career tells us all we need to know about how jazz progresses if the artist wants to whether there is money in it or not as Miles was a wealthy man. |
