Jazz for aficionados

Sorry Pepper Adams cut:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vSswilUR8MA

pryso
I need to get into Serge Chaloff more.

Gerry Mulligan you can't go wrong with him. Enjoyed all the cuts, especially the Getz cut (I own a copy of that lp). I have to agree with frogman on the Mulligan/Monk collaboration. Mulligan adapts to Monk's style not the other way around. I don't think he quite fits but I enjoy seeing someone go out of their element and be pushed to create something different.

In keeping with the bari theme here are some others:
The first I believe to receive widespread recognition Harry Carney
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NVI3IJzptKc

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vsO-fNcibAg

Pepper Adams:
 
 

Gary Smulyan:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GQQMZT1mlaV

George Haslam a guy not well known records on Slam records:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nU5XyS_bla

pryso
You are right on both counts: Monk stayed in his style no matter who he played with but your choice of  "Bags Groove" is a good one as he does adapt :

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bg5n2KQHAMs

frogman
Tubby Hayes-unknown to me as he was british and died quite young. He could really play.  Thanks.He has to be up there at the top of british jazz musicians from that era.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Adx2qebhcw

pryso

"Last Tango In Paris" made me a fan of Barbieri. Love that album

frogman 
I also have Gato's earlier "avante garde " music and like it . I was surprised the same person also made LTIP.. Another Gato album I recommend:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yr2mekCIM7o  

frogman
+1  Seamus Blake

As you like Brazilian singers have you heard Marta Gomez ?

pjw81563

On the JC cd's I like the" Live at the Blue Note" best. But it's pricey...$24 on Amazon. May look for it elsewhere.

A "newbie" I like:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OfkksJjFmYg  

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JeiwfeIABTA

pjw
I second your recommendation of Art Pepper's "Straight Life"  autobiography. Very candid & open about his life, warts and all. He WAS a huge drug addict and unfortunately, due to prison and drugs was off the scene for about 15 years. What a waste. We are lucky he made a comeback and was creative for the last few years of his life. Very powerful emotional player in those later years.
You were lucky to see Jimmy Cobb live I am not sure if he plays live concerts anymore. If you don't have them I recommend Cobb's cds "Cobb's Corner" & "Jazz in The Key of Blue" with Hargrove.
I think frogman stated it very well in his post :
"Different players bring different things to the table" . I say if one person likes an artist and another doesn't so be it. As players bring different things to the table so do we, as consumers . We all hear differently , have different life experiences and come from different backgrounds. I feel there is room for  all musicians. If I don't like it I don't listen to it or buy it.  
I am always looking for new jazz artists/groups and that is one of the reasons I come to this site. If it turns out that the artist is someone who recorded before 1970 and I have overlooked him/her than that is still a plus.
BTW i've seen Stanley Clarke live and he can play the hell out of the  upright  bass 
But I do agree with rok2id about Charles Mingus. I do not think bass player but I do think composer,& bandleader .

Cheers

pjw

I saw Stanley Clarke in the 90's at Westbury Music Fair when he was touring with Al Dimeola and Jean- Luc Ponty.  Great concert , top shelf talent who interacted well with plenty of solo space for all.
Nice article on history of saxophones in Jazz Times. 
BTW -flipping through Amazon I found 2 JC discs I want- "Chasing The Gypsy" & " The Real Quietstorm".

Ghosthouse-
I was not aware of the live reunion discs by RTF-nice stuff. Thanks

pryso
If there are more 15 yr. olds like those in Gilbert's group then the future of jazz is in good hands. The singer's scatting was good but would have liked to heard her actually sing a song.

J Pelt & J Jackson

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zv8jIwydR_E

Jafant

I was curious about your impressions of the new Miles Davis/John Coltrane The Final Tour. How are the solos and what about production/ sound quality. It seems that I have read Coltrane had already left Miles but agreed to stay on for this tour. I was wondering did Coltranes style already evolve tothe point where he didn't fit Miles concept ?Was the music taken from various dates or from one concert? I have a 2 fer lp set from Stockholm in 1960 and do not know if this latest lp is just a rehash of that concert. Anyone else h ave any impressions/thoughts?

pjw

Thanks that explains it. My double lp is March 22 1960nand includes the Coltrane interview.
I saw that these concerts seemed to be already documented on cd and was not sure.
Miles-not happy? For sure!  It took him 4 sax players an d 4 years before he found a permanent replacement in W Shorter.

Do you rem ember the name of that S Getz bio? I'd like to get a copy if available.

bluesy41

Agree totally with you "pay homage to the elders but give love  the new musicians trying to keep this dying art alive". We need to support the latest generation of jazz musicians by buying their product and  supporting their live shows. There is a lot of great jazz available  now .  Jazz is a marginalized music not supported by the masses ( except maybe in the Swing era) that needs its followers to pat=rticipate in order to survive. 

pjw

Thanks for the Getz link.

Esperanza Spalding - New to me I checked her out she can really swing.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TQtXo4tiZxs

Love her intro statement  " Jazz is America's classical music". I just wish that jazz received the respect and support in America that classical music receives in Europe. 

pjw

Here's a singer/bass player I like:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HHjVF3srVNA

 
















;

pryso

I listened to acman3's  Mose Allison posted cuts and I definitely hear blues and jazz. I was curious who the sax player is on the 3rd cut "Ever Since The World Ended" who comes in at 2:45 . It sounds like Ernie Krivda or Bennie Wallace.

pjw & pryso

I recommend Nicki Parrott's work on Venus records where she frequently records. Always great sound , especially the Sacds, but they are very pricey.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PoXvhXL3xEQ

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iBNm5FlyJvc

pjw

I thiink it was on friday acman3 posted a link to album "The Rites of Spring"  which Clarke, Dimeola and Ponty  released at the time I saw them on tour. Check it out if you are interested..

 
 

frogman

Thanks I thought I recognized that very distinctive saxophone style.

"Lenox Avenue Breakdown" . That goes way back. I think that lp is tucked away in my collection . Need to give it a listen. Is that James Newton on the flute? Takes a great solo in the first cut.

I have been enjoying your recent posts and intend to respond at length when I have more time.
I wanted to share music from an artist I saw today on my cable tv jazz channel:

The Jazz Professors

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y38IjcgggxI

Also another artist who does big band that I think deserves recognition:
Mark Masters Ensemble

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vpBRfMMtvBE  

orpheus 10

I have enjoyed your comments on this issue . I too agree it is fruitless to debate what is or isn't "jazz". I have been listening to jazz for the better part of 4 decades(all types) and have seen it go through many changes, assimilating other forms of music to bring something new to the table.
I believe that jazz , at it's ESSENCE , does evoke change and evolution by the creative artists who participate. I believe it's part of the natural scheme of things.
Every night when a jazz musician gets on the bandstand he or she is changing the music they play. Every time they solo the music is evolving as they are playing differently than previous engagements.
A perfect example of a musician looking for change and a new direction is Miles Davis in 1959 when KOB was recorded. Looking for a move away from the chord changes of bebop which had dominated the music for almost 15 years he consulted with George Russell whose musical theory was based around scales.He bought in Bill Evans , who was also familiar with these theories and the freeing harmonically from chord changes allowed the music to expand melodically and creating a major change in jazz music. And these changes in the music have continued with styles labeled as "free jazz", "post bop" , "free bop", "jazz-rock", etc. BTW it is no surprise that Miles Davis dropped the term "jazz" when describing his music. It is well documented that many african-american musicians did not like the term jazz which was coined by whites who controlled the business .
 I think where this discussion gets bogged down is in STYLISTIC differences. And as you said appreciation of music is subjective. I say if the music touches your heart and soul and you like it ,great. If someone else doesn't like it as you say "let it be"'.
An example of subjective response to music is frogman stating previously that Charlie Mariano was his favorite alto sax player (BTW I have been trying to dig into the archives to see what subjects were previously covered and contributors feelings on the subject)  . I was impressed that he said he would not say Mariano is the "best" sax player as this would be a "dicey" proposition. This goes to the element of subjectivity. I like Charlie Mariano a lot but  Art Pepper is my favorite alto player. But I also would not say he is the "best " in his category as this denigrates the contribution of others. I might try to explain why he is my favorite but that doesn't make him "better" than someone else's alto sax choice. This type of back and forth bickering that has been going on makes no sense. As you said "agree to disagree"

 

To  label a group of musicians such as the latest generation as "changing the music so they could play it " suggests that these newer musicians are dumbing down jazz music. Which is in no way true.   I  agree with frogman when he said today's musicians are better trained than in the past and can do more different things . Does that make them better than musicians of the past ?Not necessarily.
I may make this point: that when jazz music changes stylistically that the listener may change how they listen to the music to be able to appreciate what the musicians are attempting to convey. Or to put it another way it takes a different set of ears to absorb and appreciate a new direction. Some people try and they get it , others try and the  music does not resonate with them.  I have been lucky to absorb and appreciate many of the new directions in jazz.
I don't want to go on forever so i will wrap it up. frogman I feel your frustration and appreciate your thoughts.
I would like to pose a  question for anyone on jazz standards.  Can participants in this forum name more "current " songs by artists they feel  should be or are jazz standards? Or is the selection of jazz standard decided by the musicians themselves by those who play other frequently other's tunes? Just what is the process?
I appreciate the feedback of all.

jafant

Thanks for  informing everyone about Cecil Taylors passing.

acman3
Good representative clip you posted of Cecil Taylor . Here's another with Max Roach ( song is cut short)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jMfWrTawRSE

orpheus10
Cecil Taylor was a one of a kind spirit who went his own way and carved out a style unlike anyone else. Intense, thought provoking , not for the faint of heart. Some thought he was all noise , no technique, I disagree. Not always easy to listen to but a journey well worth taken.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5yJWcxzZBVE  

bluesy41
Well spoken we ARE blessed and let's enjoy the music. The answer to  your question : we  are nothing without music. Maybe you are onto something when you say that artists in the past recycled songs more often giving different versions
and maybe today's artists do not do this to the same degree. Maybe only after having your peers play your song(s) many times will a pieceor body http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rPkr5QOwqgg
of music be then considered to be a jazz "standard".  I am not sure and hope others  weigh in on the subject.

older & live G Benson:



 

George Benson live cut not in previous post:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5eR7WfxyNDY

pjw

If you liked "Agartha" check out "Get Up With  It" if you don't already have it:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kGcGNSjpkYY

 

frogman
Eric Alexander - I hope that song does become a standard in the future.I've been listening to him for a little more than a year and like everything he has done. Strong tone , excellent solos, great ballad player.Wish he wrote more of his  own music .  He is pretty much a straight ahead bebop guy . He has stated he was influenced byMonk , Dizzy,Sonny Stitt,Clifford Brown, Rollins ,Mclean, Joe Henderson George Coleman and even ;late-period Coltrane.His recordings for Venus records are my favorite. I highly recommend that album with Charles Earland and had to post this cut:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8E7yyAvkwo8


Joe Lovano clip- I really heard the influence of Coltrane in his playing and maybe a little Rollins?

frogman

Except for Maxine  ( I don't remember ) all of those tunes ok now we have to convince jazz artists to record them. My favorite is B Joel's :New York State of Mind" . I like this version I found with electric piano:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aLN_xA4Wcps 

BTW-  Didn't Joni Mitchell do an album of Mingus tunes in the past?
I  have a jazz album of Joni's tunes done by Tierney Sutton. I'LL post some if I can find online.
I need to go back to your 4/7/18 post of Miles quintet live 1967 . i just caught the beginning of it
orpheus10 indicated interest in people posting some "avant garde" music. Should I ask him what type he might be interested in ? I don't know if I want to bother him as I am not sure how well he is feeling.

acman3
thanks for the video clips and article on C Taylor.


orpheus10
I have a lot of avant garde music. I'll look for some early 60's stuff and post.

frogman
I am suggesting "Time After Time" as popular music for jazz standard but could not find any I liked.
.

acman3 
enjoyed that Ran Blake piece. As frogman says it sets up a mood. Is that cut from an album ? or just an online posting? I couldn't tell.

orpheus10
Don Cherry:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B-BJs5AzVoI

Paul Bley

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IiSGb2MfGXM

Jimmy Giuffre

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9riM3qsQ9k

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mFqJNrhL8vU

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LtUxKBb2ZGs

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nm5b-tQLMu0

orpheus10 

I see in the past you are aware of Jimmy Giuffre's music and frogman had posted something fttom "Fusion". Hope I am not being redundant.

Wpryso

"A Taste of Honey". This brings back memories of my first exposure to jazz. I had to post this cut from an album my parents bought when I was  a young kid. I couldn't get enough of the tune or the sexy cover photo. BTW  your  Woody Herman clip is a  much better version.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NC38-qqiVgg

I did miss your version of "Time After Time" on the 1st post. I found a Chet Baker version I like better. Miles version seems to have a bit of a reggae beat to it.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ybMVHeJZ7w

That video of Sarah Vaughn is incredible. She has great range with her voice and also emotional expression. Her nickname "The Divine One" really fits. sublime. I am just getting into singers for about a year or so and don't have anything by her. I would appreciate if members can suggest albums /cd's of hers with good sound  where she is at the top of her game . 

orpheus10
I think all artists in one way or another are a product of the society they live in and reflect this consciously or subconsciously.  Maybe an artist plays their sax,for example,more strongly or softly, subconsciously, to reflect their internal  view of society. Or an artist may  consciously write lyrics bemoaning society or showing the beauty of something they have experienced, which reflects their feelings. If musicians today were to reflect society I feel the music would have to be turbulent and as pryso said  , discord and i add, dissonance.

someone I just discovered:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7WfPqd4s7wY

classic Wes:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dqn3PF_DcSg

in rotation on my stereo:

Blue Note blues;

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ixzfBEQ2t_w

Getz:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YWErSDDu89c

pryso & frogman
Thanks for the Sarah V. recommendations.

pryso I was confused and now realize I like the earlier version of "Time After Time". That Herb Alpert cover is a classic !

acman3
I like Ken Vandermark also, especially the Vandermark Five group, whose music is a little more accesibile than his other work.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wV4VYj2t25c

bluesy31
Great J Redman live cut at BMW .Thanks

frogman
Nancy Wilson-lovely voice. Great with torch songs.Did someone post her  cover of "Ode to Billie Jo"? Ihave to wonder if she picked that song to record or was pressured by record c ompany to include "current" pop hit on album to sell records. You saw this a lot in jazz back then with artists doing beatle covers, etc. It worked sometimes example: Buddy Rich's BB . I also did not like sarah's "Something" and I listened to h er version of "And I Loved Her" and did not like it either.
Wilson's album "Lush Life" seems like a keeper.

pryso

Liked the Etta James cut, another name I knew but not familiar with her  music.This is her biggest hit I know no one can top or come near her version;

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S-cbOl96RFM

This singer was mentioned recently I think by pjw? I  really like her:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xABT7teB114

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvW3BbLAzZA

frogman
I agree with you on H Hancoc k.  I give him the nod over C Corea due to his body of wor k on Blue Note, his tenure withMile's groundbreaking sixties quintet and his contribution to jazz fusion in seventies.I was introduced to RTF'S music first by a friend, bought one  lp but after hearing "Thrust" & "Headhunters" I bought everything of Hanc ock's 70's output. I remember his music getting a lot of radio airplay at the time.Chick brings a very distinctive , instantly recognizable sound to both acoustic and electric piano. I prefer Hanc ock's lighter touch. 
Both are top jazz musicians and bandleaders .
I think it's a crime that Herb ie did not win a grammy until 1983 and his first was for "Rockit" , a song that sold well with mass appeal.He should have received his 1st for something he di d in jazz but since jazz do esn't appeal to the mass public it didn't happen.

alexatpos

I don't have a pc audio set up either precisely because of what acman said "none of the music Alex posted was available on Tidal. There may come a time when a lot more is available for streaming music and I may have to change my  mind. The added convenience woud be nice and I don't want to buy everything but for now I am stuck  with lp's and cds/sacd's.

another Bud Shank Bob Cooper:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gDI7sQFx4eE

pjw

Interesting question. I sure as hell don't  have a copy of that record. frogman might be able to help answer that.

frogman
I pulled out "Workin" last night to listen to it later  today. His version of "It Never Entered My Mind " is one of my favorites.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6M999526th0

pryso & orpheus10

Another great version of "It Never Entered My Mind" from the same time period I was unfamiliar with.Thanks. Miles really had a way with ballads. I have been going back to the mid 50's period Miles on prestige a lot . Sometimes I think it was his best work.
Another trumpet player i was listening to last night:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmG-7G20eE
I really like the alto sax player on this date Leo Wright , who I don't think is that well known.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VMgjS_HkCKM

frogman
I appreciate your perspective in poInting out the evolutionary process of jazz from swing to bebop. Nothing happens in a vacuum. I had forgotten about the AFOM strike but now remember reading about it. IF there had been recordings from 1942-1944 perhaps this evolutionary process would have been further documented on record(s). And you did not say that either the 1939 or 1944 Coleman Hawkins recording was THE first bebop recording.
But to try and answer pjw's question (which is not easy) would you go with musician's such as Parker & Gillespie , who had a fully  developed bebop style or the earlier 1944 recording which had elements of bebop but not the full rhythm style as Hawkins was a swing player who, as we discussed previously , never fully broke out of that earlier style ?Tough choice.And I am sure there were other guys working in this new jazz style at that time who did not have the opportunity to get it down on record.

I would like to weigh in on this subject tomorrow when I have time.

alexatpos
Thanks for all the west coast stuff you posted recently. I was mostly a fan of Shelly Manne so I just knew Richie Kamuca from his band .I will be seeking out some west coast to add to my collection.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vV1E99kIPtQ

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqzwnb4bLjU

frogman & orpheus10
Thanks for the cuts and explanation on Sonny Stitt. I have many Stitt recordings and never felt he was a clone of Bird . I had read some things to that effect but always felt it was a bad rap on his musicianship.BTW the cut of "Laura" by Stitt was beautiful , one I was not familiar with.

As to the question of the 1st bebop recording , it seems orpheus10 has changed the question to "who best represents the new  bebop style that came out of that period of time" and as such has nominated Charlie Parker as the one who had the greatest influence and represented this new style of music in his playing . It would be hard to argue with his being chosen as many sources, including many musicians, point to him as being there at the beginning.  So is Parker the best AND the first? I don't know.

 I have found a  Parker interview with Paul Desmond, I believe,
where he is questioned concerning his musicianship. Parker clearly states , as FACT, that he did a lot of study, sometimes 11-14 hours a day.He also says he studied with books and indicates this was a very important part of his development. So it is clear from this statement by Parker that  jazz music can be intellectualized , comprehended and studied . And that WAS  a key factor in his development as a musician.  Jazz music IS evolutionary. Using Parker again as an example  I quote Mark Gridley's "Jazz Styles History and Analysis"2nd addition. He writes "Charlie Parker wrote the song "Ko-Ko" atop the chord changes of "Cherokee" a previously written song and his improvisations were new melodies with "Cherokees" accompaniment. He also wrote that  Parker. as well as other jazz musicians ,wrote new songs using pop tunes standard progressions of the day. So there you have it.
In the interview Parker talks about records he cut in 1942 with Dizzy Gillespie and one of those tunes being "Groovin High". So are their records prior to the 1944 tune cited by pjw that were before the musician union strike which represent bebop?
This was the first time I heard Charlie Parker interviewed. I was taken by how articulate and intelligent he was . And how humble he was concerning his talent , a rare and admirable quality I respect in any artist .

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3W8Ff_4oFg

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=prbqc3C6968 

BTW orpheus10 I enjoyed the cut by Oran Etkin you posted. I will look for some more of his music.

Wow so much great music posted las

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tvx2cDazifs t night and today it's hard to keep up.
 orpheus10-what a nice mix of rhythms with Oran Etkins clarinet(s). It's more proof that jazz is a world music.
I liked his story about light being spread all over the world and trying to bring it together with music.Maybe music can be used as a healing force in this crazy, mixed up world we live in.
Here's a horn player I feel has something to say  with his trio on an old Lester Young tune:


 

acman3
It's nice to hear Andrew Cyrille say he can still learn something about music (at 78 yrs old I think). BTW he is still gigging my friend saw him in Brooklyn N.Y. last year,.My friend did not know him and I had to explain how long he has been on the scene and who he had played with. My friend was impressed.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TTujaqZOsvI

alexatpos

Thanks for posting more "west coast" clips. I only knew V Feldman from those live Blackhawk dates. Did not know he was british. Didn't he play on one of Miles albums too?
Herb Geller is another guy I was not too familiar with. Enjoy his work.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2HhiEr4QdJM

pjw81563

Wow more late period music from Art Pepper ! And 6 volumes too! I think this music was only available in Japan until recently. Let us know what you think of the cd after receiving/listening.

orpheus10

After listening twice my vote goes to the Ahmed Abdul-Malik version over the C Brown-M Roach cut . I think the Abdul-Malik version conjured up the images/mood  you described just a tad better. Also kudos to the piano players dazzling solo on the "Delilah " cut posted by frogman. Not sure who it was.

orpheus10
Thanks for introducing me to Ahmed Abdul-Malik . Also glad you posted the Clifford Brown -Max Roach Quintet- it has been too long since I listened to them. Most people think of Harold Land as the sax player  with them but Sonny Rollins was in the group at a different time!! Going to listen to them later.

Your post of Terje Rypdal was the first album I bought on ECM because of the cut you posted getting airplay on a local college station. The music was so different and interesting I had to buy it. Rypdal's double album Odyssey is my favorite.. Another from Wave

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HFl7NwzDc

Another ECM early favorite:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CHsZ_-9442o

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3NVBxTazvLM  

frogman
Yes right away you can hear it's not the vibraphone-- I like this version better than the first B Hutcherson "Delilah" you posted . I like Hutcherson's solo on this version much  more than the 1st version. Geri Allen sounds great. Who is the piano player on the 1st version?

pryso
"Timeless" is not easy to introduce to anyone.  It's not jazz, it's not rock, it's both. And several songs are intense. Haha maybe the single malt would help. I've been known to go for the single malt whiskey during late night listening sessions.
In rotation on my stereo:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5rzdodR2NAM

One of Art Peppers last piano players

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gVMGL94H7vk