Jazz for aficionados

orpheus10,

Second song disc 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrKJRwpVOyQ

Same groove??

orpheus10,

Third song disc 1. does this sound like the same groove?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mvuMvT4xac

The Blackhawk set is a classic and like I said no jazz aficionado should be without it.

orpheus10,

Have you thought about my proposal with the Shelly Manne Live At The Blackhawk box set. Did you listen to "Summertime" which is the first song on disc 1. That rendition of Summertime, IMHO, is the epitome of West Coast Jazz. Its just so cool compared to the many other versions of the song.

The offer still stands. Or if you want I can send you the money via Pay Pal ahead of time.

Consider it a Christmas present.

acman3,

That second link with Betty Carter backed by Geri Allen, Dave Holland and Jack DeJohnette was a real treat. I will be adding that album to my collection for sure.

Here is one of my favorite "young" jazz musicians and vocalists Esperanza Spalding. I saw her at the Apollo Theater NYC in 2013 and she was terrific selling out the place as well. I wish she would record more traditional sounding jazz albums as she has veered into other genres her last couple of releases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQtXo4tiZxs&list=RD4PIdFIGQRxk&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aRC3YY3svs

I ordered a Betty Carter compilation album titled "Betty Carters Finest Hour" On the album cover it says all you need to know about Betty's unique vocal style:

"She forever transformed the singers role in small jazz ensembles to that of a fully participating improvising member"

Here is one of the songs on the disc, a duet with Carmen McRae:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF6ihKz4NbA

acman3,

I found that Betty Carter album "Feed The Fire" on Amazon and ordered it. Here is a review from Amazon:

Lionel Hampton nicknamed her "Betty Bebop" way back when--and the soul of bebop was alive and kickin' in Betty Carter when this 1993 live set was recorded at London's Royal Festival Hall. It's a kind of dream date, with Carter accompanied by pianist Gerri Allen, bassist Dave Holland, and drummer Jack DeJohnnette. So what I want to say is: "Wow." I guess that's not a very articulate critical observation, but as Carter (a sizzling scat singer) knows, sometimes words just aren't enough to say what needs to be expressed. Some jazz singers (like Billie Holiday or Shirley Horn) don't stray too far from the melody in their improvisations, but Carter takes off and flies like the great bebop sax/horn players. The arrangements on these 10 songs sometimes deliberately downplay the melodies--like a mysteriously beautiful "Lover Man" that Billie Holiday would never recognize. Slowed almost to a standstill and built around a piano figure that echoes Herbie Hancock's "Maiden Voyage," the words are familiar, but the tune is almost undetectable. Carter's up to something else altogether, and makes spine- tingling music. --Jim Emerson

orpheus10,

I have that Shelly Manne album with the song you posted. It is one of about 20 Shelly Manne discs I have with him as the leader.

Shelly Manne, Lee Konitz, Gerry Mulligan, Chet Baker, Bob Brookmeyer, Lenny Tristano and Zoot Simms among others, were the original artists who did not follow along with everyone else into bebop - that is, I mean players that recorded mostly bop whereas the players I mentioned above, who were highly influenced by Lester Youngs smooth sounding tenor which, believe it or not, had a huge influence on the "West Coast Cool" sound, stuck to a more subdued "swing sound" instead of bebop. 

Miles Davis used some of the players I mentioned above in his nonet for his "Birth Of The Cool" album. Lee Konitz was personally chosen by Miles over Sonny Stitt because of his ability to pay more subdued.

BTW, Gerry Mulligan was a very talented composer/arranger and that part of his legacy is often overlooked.

The complete recordings of Chet Baker and Gerry Mulligan is another place to look to bolster your west coast collection.

orpheus10,

So you are sticking to just vinyl LP’s if I am understanding you correctly. Just about all digital music is compressed. The amount of compression can vary depending on the engineer/mixer. Most of the time, if the engineer is a good one, it does not affect the finished product.

I suggest you google compression in audio. Most of the articles will say the difference in sound is negligible unless it was just a crappy engineer doing the final mix. It also depends on what genre of music is being mixed in the recording.

Does your collection consist of only analog LP’s? Do you have any compact discs?

Getting back to the Shelly Manne live at the Blackhawk:
Individual CD’s of all 5 volumes will cost you 5x the cost of the boxset if they are even available. And the individual discs may also be compressed. The ONLY WAY to go in your case would be vinyl so you could be sure of no compression.

So basically you turned down a chance to get the whole shebang on 4 discs for free and listen to them and decide for yourself. or waiting a long time and spending way more on individual LP’s. I can’t see how getting something free is a "critical choice"


I am not a vinyl guy and have a 5k system with Sennheiser 650 headphones for "critical listening" through a DAC. I have close to 1000,00 compact discs and have only made a "frisbee" out of about 20 or so because of "compression/recording/mixing issues. When I say it is not compressed what I really mean is its not compressed enough for the human ears to make a clear distinction. This has all been done with systems way more expensive then mine with blind testing of "audiophiles".

RE Audiophile: A person or persons that spend 10k for speaker cables and RCA interconnects and swear they can hear a difference. LOL

Here is a great example of East Coast meets West Coast:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEDLZmM_C_Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ2qAbtZKo0

Every player on that album is considered a West Coast Jazz Disciple except Stan Getz who, although he lived in Cali for a time was a New Yorker through and through and he injects some bebop into a lot of his solo's on the session.

BTW Orpheus did you like the 2 songs from Stan Getz’ album titled "West Coast Jazz"


Big Stan Getz fan here. Could make an argument he is one of the top 10 tenors of all time. The following was downloaded from a turntable with a USB connect into a laptop then uploaded to You Tube and you can hear its sonics are better then 90% of the stuff on You Tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P1EKY8p5pk

I am listening to "Sweet Rain" through my headphone gear as I write this and it sounds much better then the upload on You Tube above and that upload, as I said, is really good.

"Sweet Rain" is from the Stan Getz album of the same title "Sweet Rain" which features a very young Chick Corea on piano. Chick also composed a couple of songs on the session.

orpheus10,

With all due respect I did not upload those songs onto You Tube.

YouTube uploads vary and I believe the content cannot be more then 320 kbps which is compressed. You cannot use You Tube to compare the sonics of a song since the source (an MP3 "lossy file") can vary from 128 kbps (ok) to 190 kbps (ok) to 320 kbps. I would say that most of the uploads on You Tube are in the lower kilobits per second - kbps.

First in the chain of listening is the source. In this case a compact disc. If the engineer overly compresses the dynamic range will suffer.

Secondly you must rip you compact disc onto a pc to upload it onto You Tube. If you rip your CD’s in MP3 codec as most people do the sound quality suffers.

I have ripped to my laptop my whole CD collection in FLAC codec in which has a very high bit rate so the music is identical to the source with no problems in the dynamic range. I cannot upload any songs from my library to You Tube unless I convert them down to an MP3 file which is inferior by far compared to FLAC - Free Lossless Audio Codec.

I can plug my laptop into my audio video receiver via HDMI and my system sounds great. For even better listening I plug my laptop into a headphone amp with a DAC - Digital to Analog Convertor and then out to my Sennheiser 650’s. I recently listened to one song off each disc of the Shelly Manne Blackhawk boxset through my headphone rig which is my "critical listening" choice and the dynamic range was fine. The quiets were quiet and the louds loud (this is what becomes "flat" when overly compressed).

"Since FLAC is a lossless format, it is suitable as an archive format for owners of CDs and other media who wish to preserve their audio collections. If the original media are lost, damaged, or worn out, a FLAC copy of the audio tracks ensures that an exact duplicate of the original data can be recovered at any time. An exact restoration from a lossy copy (e.g., MP3) of the same data is impossible".

From here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC

My offer still stands. Do as you wish but please do not use You Tube as a audio comparison.

"No matter how good your rig is, it can not compensate for a compressed disc"


That is what I already stated. I don't know if you skipped over that part of my post here it is again word for word:

************First in the chain of listening is the source. In this case a compact disc. If the engineer overly compresses the dynamic range will suffer.************

Reel to reel is an expensive proposition:

From an "audiophile" forum:

"I've been an audiophile for over 30 years and attended many related events and shows. The last couple of years at AXPONA I had the opportunity to hear some of these new reel to reel decks and the high quality tapes mentioned here and was completely floored by what I heard. The realism, tonality, and harmonic density of these playback sources was far beyond anything else I've ever experienced with either the best analog LP or digital sources. Personally I can't justify purchasing such a front end due to the limited amount of music available in the format as well as the high cost of the tapes themselves, but it is an experience I will never forget!"

Complete page here:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30923-the-sound-of-high-quality-reel-to-reel/











.

One thing that the OP and I share is we are both big Art Blakey and Grant Green fans.

I have just about everything Grant Green put out as a leader (going on 30 albums) and even more with him as a side man.


My Art Blakey collection is about a half dozen or so short of all of his recordings live and studio.

I have 52 Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers albums. 12 - 15 of them are live. He does not solo on every tune but among the great jazz groups and great drummers, In which categories the Messengers and Blakey certainly belong, their music contains more drum solo's then any others.

Volume 2 "Shelly Manne and his Men" Live at the Blackhawk "Vamps Blues" and I hope our OP has this on the way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wza0PhuQOzE&t=368s

My disc is 2 channel stereo. Right speaker has Trumpet and piano and the left saxophone, bass and drums. The overall separation and sound field is solid. The dynamic range is as it should be. Highs and lows are distinctly recognizable. The symbols sound terrific.

This is the CD box set. When the OP gets his LP’s, which may be mono, I want a review of the sonics.

Personnel"
Shelly Manne drums
Joe Gordon trumpet
Richie Kamuca tenor sax
Victor Feldman piano
Monty Budwig bass

Here is a beautiful waltz from the same album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NTPK0Y09P4

Schubert,

I give all 5 albums of that Shelly Manne live Blackhawk 5 stars. It is just an incredible date at that club.

"I can understand the first but the later is often a blessing"

LMFAO!!

In the Lou Donaldson interview I posted above the interviewer asks Lou about the band he was in that played the soundtrack for a movie called "Pitch A Boogie Woogie" Here a very interesting article I found which mentions the many players who auditioned for the soundtrack band. Here is an excerpt from the article


""Coltrane was just a kid when he came through," he said. "There were so many of them that came in wanting to jam, and we had this trick to keep them thinned out. 'Cherokee' is a difficult tune, especially the bridge, in B flat, and we had 10-12 tenors waiting. It was Guy, Woods and me, and all these trumpet players and sax players waiting to jam. So we changed the key to B. Coltrane stumbled on his solo and put his horn down."

Lou Donaldson passed the test.

Full article here:

https://digital.lib.ecu.edu/text/116

Here is one of my favorite Lou Donaldson songs. He played this song every time I saw him and always used those same jokes at the beginning.

"Back down in North Carolina where I'm from we call this music suffering music. If you never suffered you cant understand this music. You have to be on your way home from work and lose all of your pay. Or you get home and your wife has run off with your next door neighbor." L.D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG5MLaPqlng

orpheus10,


Here is an excerpt from the first paragraph of your opening post of this thread:

*********I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.************

You have posted 6,768 times since then so if all CD's are much to overly compressed for you to even consider buying them (this I gathered from your recent posts on "compressed" audio) why did your OP contain those 2 sentences?

orpheus10,

Grant Green is my favorite jazz guitarist. I wonder is that such a bad thing and if the "gods of jazz" and "official aficionado's" have condemned me while shouting 

WES MONTGOMERY!!!
JOE PASS!!!
DJANGO REINHARDT!!!

I like speed and "chops" just as much as the next guy but, I like the "feeling" of Grants chords. Just my opinion. 

Speaking of Django, his son Babik was pretty darn good himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ4naGDkNSY

Here we have my favorite video with Lou's "Alligator Bogaloo" playing the background music complete with a call girl and a Hugh Heffner imitation. Corny, sleezy and sexy too!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxbkAvIKGk

frogman,

It is well known that Bill Cosby was a "wannabe jazz musician". As he became more and more wealthy from Hollywood he produced many jazz recordings.

Lou Donaldson

You don’t seem like a fan of him as I don’t recall you commenting on his ability as an artist whether good or bad. To me, no reply one way or the other, is a polite way of letting someone know its not your cup of tea.

When Lou first came to NYC he immediately was hired by many small ensembles including the famous Birdland live recording with Art Blakey and Clifford Brown. This reflects on his talent as an altoist. He was recording in the studio as a leader a few years after his arrival in NYC.

Many jazz aficionado’s are familiar with Donaldson’s penchant for the blues/gospel/funk style jazz he veered into in the 60’s with his albums titled "Blues Walk" "Here Tis" "Good Gracious" "Alligator Bogaloo" "Possum Head" and "Everything I Play Is Funky".

But Lou cut his career out in the beginning first with bebop and then hard bop which he could play with the best of them. Lou does not have the title of NEA Jazz master for nothing. Do you recognize the cats in this photo with Lou:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=nea+jazz+master&form=EDGSPH&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&msnew...

From Lou’s album LD + 3 bebop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuagbw2TUFQ

More bebop from "Lou Takes Off"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evDzBWnQcYY

Lou with the Gene Ammons All Stars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXgjacSGTnc

pryso,

I like Joe Pass and the other guitarists I mentioned plus many more I did not mention. I just find myself listening to Grant Green more then any other jazz guitarist.

This is a re - post because I had to alter it for a friend and the system wont let you edit after 30 minutes. 

alex,

I enjoyed all 5 of your links and my favorite, of course, is Grant Green.

I cannot even find the words to describe his rendition of that song. You can feel Grant’s feelings in every chord. From the same album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBTvy8As0cQ

I have the 2 disc set "The Complete Quartets With Sonny Clark"

Here is a couple from the compilation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBLUyT_ajbI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzpPuKEK3RM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKdeMa5NMmc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUOC02sTckI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuTVeNF3t6s


alex I would have loved to meet Grant Green and even more become an acquaintance of his like our OP. I was fortunate enough to see Lou Donaldson at least a half dozen times and converse with him. Green played on a few of Lou’s studio recording sessions. Lou and I talked about Grant Green, Dr. Lonnie Smith, Big John Patton and Art Blakey to name a few.


Most of our conversations centered on sports especially boxing. Lou is a big fan of boxing and baseball. I miss him as he has not been gigging for the last 3 years. He is 93 now. He told me he was at the Polo Grounds in NY when Bobby Thomson hit "The Shot Heard Round The World" Here is the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiZuVXYa43E

Maybe that was Lou who jumped up with that cigar in his mouth! just kidding but Lou was in attendance and I believe him. Lou, who was born in 1926, would have been a strapping young man of 25 years old at the time. Three years later he was the altoist in Art Blakey’s live 2 disc set "A Night At Birdland" along with Clifford Brown, Horace Silver and Curly Russell. Every time listen to this 2 disc set I think of Lou "Sweet Papa" Donaldson.

I see you saw the photo of Mr. Lou and I on my Facebook page. He certainly is a character.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB4H54s6mEk

***********Schubert, "Cherokee" is in the domain of the "heavy hitters" like Bird and Stitt.************

Don’t forget Art Pepper. I have the rare 9 disc box set "Live At The Village Vanguard" from Art’s "comeback" period in the 70’s. The 9 discs were recorded on 3 nights Friday through Sunday.


Anyway Friday night opening residency first set closing song is Cherokee. Before playing Art spoke to the audience as follows word for word:

"We are gonna close this set with our rendition of the tune in the bible of the jazz musician... if you cant play this don’t play.... Cherokee.... that’s jazz I mean if you cant play this and play the crap  outa it don’t play the horn.... or the drums or anything...… break it 123....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFEyZf4Fw0s

The intro to Cherokee I wrote word for word from Art during the Friday night show. I could not find the Friday night "Cherokee with intro" so I improvised. I listened to the intro on my pc until I got it all down the used the Saturday night rendition of Cherokee (all I could find on You Tube).

Art Pepper, during his comeback was on methadone but in the book he and his wife Laurie wrote "Straight Life" Art discussed this 3 night residency and recording at the Village Vanguard. He was obsessed with getting everything just right and started snorting cocaine When they arrived in NY and he never went to sleep until the last set on Sunday was over. 4 days and nights straight with no sleep and he still played terrific on every set.


His band for these shows was an all star line up with Elvin Jones on drums, George Cables on Piano and George Mraz on bass.

frogman,

From now on I wont assume anything I will just ask you. And, btw, I like Paul Desmond. I have 8 albums with him as a leader and of course many Dave Brubeck albums as well. Here are some I like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI7h6t3zUeI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2cTgUK3MQY&list=PLQQLNys0yJ0sI-DMKnb0JAJ49VfNYnC_d

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDjTc8GzstQ&list=PLvxWibFr0wiJmG_PfoH_rWJrssctL7MOL

Here is another great book on Art Pepper written by his wife Laurie after he died. Its titled "Why I Stuck With A Junkie Jazz Man"

https://www.amazon.com/ART-Why-Stuck-Junkie-Jazzman/dp/1494297574/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400004...

I have read it and its a great read if you like that sort of thing.

Amazon blurb:

Art Pepper told his sexy, sordid, and exciting true adventure stories to his lover, Laurie, who put them in a book. She quizzed him (and those who knew him) unrelentingly over seven years, editing and structuring a narrative to which she dedicated all her energy. Straight Life by Art and Laurie Pepper (Da Capo) was published in 1979. It was critical success and remains a classic of its kind, the subject of college literary and music studies. Laurie went on to marry Art and manage his resurgent career, touring the world with his band.

“Why I Stuck with a Junkie Jazzman” was the headline some editor gave a newspaper interview Laurie did while the band was in Australia in 1981, and she’s now stolen that “that perfect title” for her memoir. ART: Why I Stuck with a Junkie Jazzman (APMCorp), describes her marriage to the deeply troubled, drug-addicted, madly gifted artist. “That marriage was the making of me,” says Laurie. “Some people go to grad school or join the Marines. I married a genius who valued and inspired me and challenged me to use MY gifts. We had a difficult, powerful partnership. I had to tell that story.” She says she also needs to set the record straight and clarify her role: “People think I was some kind of little wifey-saint who rescued him. And Art encouraged them in that. But he knew how truly crazy I could be. We rescued each other.”

acman3,

Thanks for the Christian Jacob links. Great jazz!

Listening to this now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_eujpDyGmQ

alex,

The Paul Desmond MJQ combo works for me. 

Eddie Costa I like the last link with the piano and vibes combo

mary_jo,

I scored a 9 out of 10 on your test. I answered #10 wrong.

I agree with pryso's take on Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers being a "class room" for young jazz musicians. Notable trumpet players who recorded with the Messengers are Clifford Brown, Kenny Dorham, Lee Morgan and Freddie Hubbard.

frogman,
I must have skipped over your Desmond Blue post. Your right about being able to comment on everybody's posts. It don't work.. 

An interesting rendition of "Take Five"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn27IcAapPI

Benson was "locked in"

acman3 those 4 songs punctuated my night nicely.

acman3,

I like Allison Miller. I saw her play with the Dr. Lonnie Smith group at the Jazz Standard NYC back in 2013 or 14.

She is definitely an above average drummer and I was impressed with her all around playing in Smith's funk/soul/gospel setting. She really shined on the James Brown song "I Cant Stand It" which the Dr. usually plays his instrumental version live since the late 60's.

James Brown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP1wtIfs8lg

The Dr:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4MAtTyeDfs

It would seem to me that Dr. Lonnie Smith likes Allison Miller and vice versa. Another live performance in Brooklyn where the Dr. hired 2 drummers - Allison Miller and Joe Dyson. This music is a lot different from Millers Boom Tic Boom band but she is proficient in both of the very different styles. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3qc1DkfFsU

orpheus10,

Here is another rendition of "Backtrack" live at Ronnie Scotts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H71xDtzzhsI

The guitarist, Jonathan Kreisberg , is also on the Brooklyn date. Give Kreisberg a listen. He is seldom mentioned here and is an upper echelon guitarist for sure. Here is one from him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5WXa_B37LY

Here is a really great piece on Art Blakey and in particular the Blue Note album "The Freedom Rider". The contents are to appear as the liner notes for a new reissue of that great album.

https://magazine.vinylmeplease.com/magazine/art-blakey-liners/

I don't know about the frogman but the only chicken I have are either in the freezer or cooked and on my plate

frogman,

When I was in the Philippines I stayed in Cebu. There was a big cock fighting arena right on one of the main roads in a densely populated area. I was curious so my wife's brother in law took me one night to this arena.

They tie razor blades to one claw on each foot of the roosters. The matches typically last less then a minute. There was at least 200 screaming  gamblers and about 3 dozen bet takers with pad and pencil. Roosters are everywhere in Cebu. Any street you walk down many of the houses have roosters tied to stakes in the ground by a wire to one of its legs just above the claws.

When I visited Puerto Rico in 1993 my Puerto Rican friend also took me to an arena in San Juan. Believe it or not, in PR, there is a yearly "rooster derby" lasting a few days and the winner receives 500,000 USD.

Dave Brubeck Quartet "Take The A Train" live and what a terrific rendition. Is it just me or is Joe Morello one of the best at "keeping time" ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVwkRU-iYg4

Morello was the recipient of many awards, including Playboy magazine’s best drummer award for seven years in a row, and Downbeat magazine’s best drummer award five years in a row.

As a subject for discussion, did Morello win all of those prestigious awards for truly being the "best drummer" or was his being a member of the Dave Brubeck Quartet part of the equation?


Dave Brubeck’s band looked like a bunch of ordinary joes with a touch of "cool" and the music as well as the band leader was easily accessible and liked by the masses all over the world. I have the live Carnegie Hall disc and the audience is LOUD to say the least. The audience in the above video is just as LOUD.

Take Five is, after all, the greatest selling jazz single of all time. The Bossa Nova hit sensation "The Girl From Ipanema" , while selling more singles worldwide was in different categories including pop and adult contemporary.

As far as "pure jazz" Take Five is still the most known song worldwide.

Merry Christmas to all!

frogman and orpheus10,

I did not contend that Joe Morello was the best drummer. It was Playboy magazine and Downbeat magazine. My question was not "is there a best drummer" or "so and so was the best drummer"

My question, which you both failed to address, was do you think it was Morello being a member of the Dave Brubeck Quartet that was influential in his receiving these accolades from 2 of the best selling magazines at the time.

Merry Christmas pryso

Castillian Drums is one of my favorite drum solo’s. That live version at Carnegie Hall is a classic. I like the studio version on the "Countdown: Time In Outer Space" as well.

It is a well thought out solo that seems to have a "theme" to it.

As I mentioned in my previous post Morello could certainly play in time. One of the best at it. It may seem like a simple thing to do but its not.

Here is another favorite drum solo of mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxkIvmjQ_FI

That's a great Shelly Manne album I have the twofer version.

Merry Christmas OP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuZMY30TIJM&list=PLpPg4PQ9cbF2r3Ha1HIWnr-ghiHcOWjcq

frogman

I think you already knew the answer to that question which is, as you stated, NO.

acman3

Do you have the Dave Brubeck album "Live At Oberlin" with Lloyd Davis on drums?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NPzdNpXr_4

Both Joe Dodge and Lloyd Davis were more then capable drummers but not on par with Joe Morello. As far as Morello being "integral" to the Brubeck sound I think on the Time Out album and the follow up albums in the 60's he certainly was.

All Music:

Dave Brubeck's defining masterpiece, Time Out is one of the most rhythmically innovative albums in jazz history, the first to consciously explore time signatures outside of the standard 4/4 beat or 3/4 waltz time. It was a risky move -- Brubeck's record company wasn't keen on releasing such an arty project, and many critics initially roasted him for tampering with jazz's rhythmic foundation. But for once, public taste was more advanced than that of the critics. Buoyed by a hit single in altoist Paul Desmond's ubiquitous "Take Five," Time Out became an unexpectedly huge success, and still ranks as one of the most popular jazz albums ever. That's a testament to Brubeck and Desmond's abilities as composers, because Time Out is full of challenges both subtle and overt -- it's just that they're not jarring. Brubeck's classic "Blue Rondo à la Turk" blends jazz with classical form and Turkish folk rhythms, while "Take Five," despite its overexposure, really is a masterpiece; listen to how well Desmond's solo phrasing fits the 5/4 meter, and how much Joe Morello's drum solo bends time without getting lost. The other selections are richly melodic as well, and even when the meters are even, the group sets up shifting polyrhythmic counterpoints that nod to African and Eastern music. Some have come to disdain Time Out as its become increasingly synonymous with upscale coffeehouse ambience, but as someone once said of Shakespeare, it's really very good in spite of the people who like it. It doesn't just sound sophisticated -- it really is sophisticated music, which lends itself to cerebral appreciation, yet never stops swinging. Countless other musicians built on its pioneering experiments, yet it's amazingly accessible for all its advanced thinking, a rare feat in any art form. This belongs in even the most rudimentary jazz collection.

Merry Christmas to all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKG5X0QMSWA

frogman

All of the "best" lists I have read, in jazz as well as other genres, are in my POV way off.

As pryso stated upthread Morello is his favorite but does not claim he is the best. I feel the same way about my favorites. In other words I will never get into a debate over "who" is "best" at "what instrument" I enjoy my favorites.

frogman

Thanks for all your insightful posts this morning. You must have a few days off for the holidays (I don’t recall you ever posting this much material in such a short span of time).

Some reflections of mine.

Herbie Hancock was, and still is, a boundary stretcher who dove seamlessly, barely missing a step, into the world of electronic keyboards.
Chick Corea as well. Both of them started out in the "old school jazz" rooted in blues, as our OP likes to call jazz in the period from 1920 - 1965. I think it was the 65 - 75 period when a lot of jazz musicians started to stretch the boundary’s of "old school" into Avant Guard, Fusion, and whatever one considers the "correct terminology" for these relatively new genres.

Art Blakey was a bebop/hardbop drummer (much more of the latter) and would stay in his driving lane. I love the way he propels his bandmates in his "school of hard bop", which is the title of an Art Blakey book I read. I have over 50 Blakey discs both live and studio (almost his complete catalogue with him as a leader) and I love them all. The only time Art would change lanes were his African themed albums. Art was Art and that is what made him special to me. He had so much enthusiasm and energy and it rubbed off on all of his "students" of which all of them wrote the majority of his songs.

Tony Williams, a drummer you have mentioned in many of your posts, along with Billy Cobham, were the 2 drummers (that I can think of right now) who were able to change lanes in and out of genres seamlessly and both, as well as Blakey, should be in the drummer hall of fame if there was such a thing.

BTW, when Tony Williams was 17 years old he played his first studio gigs on the Blue Note label first with Herbie Hancock on his "My Point Of View" recording (19 March 63), and then with Kenny Dorham less then 2 weeks later (1 April) on the Uno Mas recording

By listening to these albums you can already hear Tony Williams unique style of playing which evolved rapidly. 17 years old!! SMH!!

With Herbie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ERBkTeTeQ4

With Kenny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dxoLesUB5M

Good afternoon alex and mary_jo

Nice to see you two Croatian's are having a go at it. 

I have had a lot of bad experiences in my life and this is not the place for me to post songs that remind me of them and make me emotional. Just saying I understand MJ.