frogman, I have listened to John Coltrane’s version of Giant Steps many times over the years. But a month or two between listens. I plan on listening to it repeatedly through my headphones over and over until I "get it". Then I will compare other players improvisations over the melody. I think this is the best way for me to learn the "Mystery of soloing to Giant Steps" What did you think of the duo playing organ and drums. Did you think they played the melody and rythm of Giant Steps adequately? On Coltrane’s studio recording the final release had Tommy Flanagan on piano on all songs except "Naima" in which Wynton Kelly played piano. Art Taylor played drums on all the songs except "Naima" as well. Jimmy Cobb played drums on that song. Lex Humphries and Cedar Walton played drums and piano, respectively, on "alternate versions" of 2 songs - Giant Steps and Naima. Paul Chambers played bass on everything that was put down on wax including alternate versions. What do you think were the factors for replacing Flanagan and Taylor for just the one song Naima? If you have the time check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCJh-7BVkRcDo not skip the nearly 5 minute advertisement which is interesting and would suggest that James Carter, while technically brilliant, has not trained his "mental state" adequately enough. 16 measures ?, 3 tonal centers?..... G major 7, chord structure upper minor 3rd - down a 5th? I leaned a lot and now I know why the song is titled "Giant Steps" Another thing, which you may already know, Trane used to go to Thelonious Monk's apartment daily and sit for hours on end practicing with him. Do you think this helped him with all the compositions he wrote with "melodic shifts" ? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
mary jo,
Thanks for posting the Jan Garbarek links.
It was nice to wake up today, get a cup of coffee, open up the laptop and listen to those two wonderful songs. Brilliant paying by the band as a whole and Garbarek is, for lack of a better description, awesome on the sax!
|
rok,
I like Gospel music by a large chorus. There is a Gospel church within walking distance of my house and I often go there to hear the music.
|
James Carter's new album is awesome!
A great live recording at Newport Jazz Festival and engineered well. Sonics are excellent on the CD.
He does a medley based on the Bill Withers song "Use Me Up" which I have seen and heard him done before a couple times in person. The version on this new release is awesome as are all the other songs. Highly recommended.
|
|
Here is an interview with, IMHO, one of the greatest drum players (it can be argued he was the greatest) and musician to ever play this thing we call jazz. And he was a perfectionist who expected the greatest effort, at all times, whether in the studio or live, of the members in his band. And I quote from the interview: "The art form of jazz will continue" "There is an elite audience out there that will appreciate what we do" "What we do has more validity to it, and there is an audience out there who wants to see and hear better things" "I try to keep a very high standard with my music" "I was brought up in a world of music that I doubt very much we’ll ever see again - that kind of talent - artistry - and dedication, you wont find that today" The above quotes were taken from the first 5 minutes of a 15 minute interview from 1987 in which he gives high praise to Lester Young, Charlie Parker, and Dizzy Gillespie. If you have 15 minutes to spare I think it would be worth time spent. This is part 1 of a 3 part interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_8PmhaWskc&t=622s |
orpheus10, This is how Buddy Rich reacts to members of his band not "pulling their weight": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=covUesgI6fA&t=184sAfter you listen to a few minutes of the above (which is quite enough) watch this and see the talented, hot tempered, Buddy Rich doing what he does best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzS2hGuoPXUbtw, Buddy detested country music. Said it was hillbilly noise played on 3 chords. This new Buddy Rich biography is being released on October 1. I already pre - ordered my copy https://www.amazon.com/Buddy-Rich-Making-Greatest-Drummer/dp/1540064239/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=buddy+ri...
Amazon blurb: In this meticulously researched biography, author Pelle Berglund presents the first comprehensive book on the life of Buddy Rich, still considered by many to be the greatest drummer ever to pick up sticks. Using interviews with many of Buddy's band members (some conducted by the author himself) along with extensive sourcing of quotes from practically every interview ever given by Buddy himself, a complete chronology of Buddy's life is presented along with insights into what drove him and what he thought about the various situations and people he encountered through his life. One of a Kind recounts each chapter of a life lived in the spotlight: childhood star Traps, the Drum Wonder; young jazz drummer with Joe Marsala and Bunny Berigan; star sideman with Artie Shaw, Harry James, and Tommy Dorsey; and leading various incarnations of the Buddy Rich Big Band. A twentieth century icon, Buddy's relationships with Shaw, Dorsey, Count Basie, Johnny Carson, Frank Sinatra, Mel Torme, Gene Krupa, Norman Granz, Lana Turner, and his family, including wife Marie and daughter Cathy, are insightfully investigated. Never-before-seen photos of Buddy culled from the private collection of collector Charley Braun add a new perspective on Buddy's life including a 16-page featured photo section. Beyond providing a complete timeline of Buddy Rich's life, One of a Kind provides a glimpse into the mind of a musical titan who demanded greatness from himself and those around him, and became of the most celebrated and controversial stars in music. Also includes an incredible introduction by drummer Max Weinberg and a link to additional online photos, video and audio. |
I saw Rudresh Mahanthappa at the NYC Winter Jazzfest in January 2013 just before James Carter took the stage. I am not a music critic and not everyone will agree with a "critics poll". Rudresh Mahanthappa, otoh, deserves all the accolades he has received since arriving on the jazz scene in the mid/late 90's. He is an extremely proficient alto saxophonist who has won the Down Beat magazines best alto sax player of the year award. I have the album in the link, 2015's "Bird Calls" and I like it a lot. I also own several more of his albums including his collaborations with a great pianist by the name of Vijay Iyer. Challenging but rewarding music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx9cNAN8-w8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDjEQ4JpRv8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGqVIOnA9OQ |
Trying to catch up on all the posts.
mary jo,
Thanks for the quotes of Buddy Rich and Philip Howie on Ravel's Bolero. That happens to be one of the classical music songs I listen to occasionally.
|
frogman, I know that Buddy Rich was very opinionated and critical of other genres of music or just of music he thought "stunk" and he did not care who might have distanced themselves from him or, as another way of putting it - drove people away. And as nsp pointed out did indeed have a black belt in Karate. As for his curse filled rantings I believe Buddy’s mistake was not choosing the best players to begin with. And then he would chastise them when they screwed up which only makes it worse. I think that is why a lot of his "Buddy Rich Big Band" output is mediocre. Although there are a lot of gems too. His small band sessions are better - maybe because it was easier for Buddy to get everyone on the "same page" His leadership skills were nowhere close to a Duke Ellington or Count Basie when it came to big bands. I love Buddy Rich but I think his best recordings are as a sideman whether in a big band or quartet/septet. I wonder how Buddy would have handled himself in a trio recording with accompanying bass and piano. I was thinking of buying this disc: https://www.amazon.com/Tatum-Hampton-Rich-Lionel-Hampton-Buddy-Tatum/dp/B000M08CA8/ref=sr_1_7?keywor...
Here is a song from the above disc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk33s6RDIk4
Here is another I found. Man o Man that Lester Young was smooth..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87f6g-yimHg |
|
|
roc do you honestly think I believe that since 7:07 pm when I posted about Buddy Rich until 7:58 when you posted your retort of my post, that you checked 348 pages and "over 17,000 posts", in your own words, is simply not doable.
Unless you have had nothing else to do since I posted BR 3 days ago and have been diligently at work checking every post on this thread to "prove your point" to this I would only say one word.
Pathetic.
|
As for Buddy Rich there are hundreds of recordings he appears on where you are not "aware he’s even there". The bulk of Buddy’s short - medium - long drum solo’s are live to please an audience who are screaming for a solo. Buddy is one of the greatest drummers to ever pick up the sticks and I cannot believe a "jazz aficionado" would think otherwise.
The OP of this thread was "Moanin" by Art Blakey and Blakey played more extended drum solo’s on his studio albums then any other jazz drummer. So the statement that "the best jazz drummers are the ones you are not aware of" is a contradiction to this thread.
Frankly speaking, how any so called jazz aficionado, could put up a post that subtly or indirectly suggests that Buddy Rich was a sub par jazz musician/drummer is absurd.
|
Another example of the excellent Buddy Rich in a big band setting with some outstanding solo's in the brass sections and on piano. Buddy plays a short but electrifying solo at the end of the song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2Dh1cyHKlA |
I know many "new jazz" musicians who are good - very good - excellent. There are just not that many of them today as there was pre 1970.
I know this because my Jazz CD collection is comprised of approximately 75% pre 1970 and 25% 1970 to the present.
I support new jazz artists by buying their albums and attending live shows frequently in the jazz clubs of NYC. If there were absolutely no good jazz musicians around, as some have suggested, these clubs would not exist. But exist they do and more often then not, are packed to full capacity with jazz aficionado's.
|
If you asked some of the jazz legends who are still active like Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, Jack De Johnette, Dave Holland, and Chick Corea if there exists absolutely 0 good jazz artists today because their "ears" tell them so, what do you think their reply would be ???
BTW, The above artists all had one thing in common and a true jazz aficionado would know what it is.
|
roc please....
The legends I mentioned are still alive. You could not ask a dead legend a question. SMH
|
I have exactly 48 Art Blakey albums in my collection. Again I must repeat - Art Blakey has more extended drum solo's on his studio albums then any other drummer who leads a jazz group.
I think Art Blakey was a great drummer and band leader and many a newcomer on the scene got his start in the "Jazz Messengers" before moving on. I happen to enjoy his extended drum solo's on his albums.
I can say with a certainty that I like the music output of Blakey better then Buddy Rich. It is not for me to say who is the better drummer. I like them equally as drummers.
|
frogman,
I was not even aware Cannonball had a session recording with strings. listened to both songs you posted and I disagree with you assessment that its not as magical as Clifford with strings.
To my ears they are both equally magical one displaying magical talent on sax, the other on trumpet. I am logging on to Amazon now to see if I can buy that Cannonball disc.
|
|
frogman,
That Getz with orchestra is another session I was not aware of. More magical music. Back to Amazon......
|
|
acman3 & frogman, This is one of my favorite improvisations over an orchestra as well. Clifford Brown with Strings and the Ogerman/Brecker Discs I always play them back to back. I notice some subtle similarities in the soloing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Aww9lWwYlY&list=PLUJ7V33M1wR3JLVPbCEBiR3_1PNP7zaOT
Clifford's leaving of this place so young was a tragedy. His brief stay here gave us all the pleasure of hearing a truly great virtuoso and lyricist on the trumpet, that IMHO, no one has ever equaled. |
acman3, I almost missed upthread your posting of Art Pepper’s "Mucho Calor" As you may know by now I am an Art Pepper completist. Do you have any of the newer live series released by Art’s wife Laurie. They are called "Unreleased Art" and released under her "Widows Taste" label. Here is one Art wrote for Lauri that knocks it out of the park: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdBAfzYiz2E
Laurie Pepper: http://straightlife.info/widowstaste.html |
orpheus10, I'm glad you liked the "Unreleased Art". There are 10 volumes and some of them have multiple discs "Blues For The Fisherman" has 4 discs and all 4 are outstanding. There is another 6 volume series titled "West Coast Sessions" with many great musicians on them including Sonny Stitt, Shelly Manne, and Jack Sheldon to name a few. frogman, Although unawares until today that Cannonball and Stan had recorded with string orchestra's, Being an Art Pepper completist I have his session with a string orchestra its called "Winter Moon" and it is a really good session. This song off of Winter Moon is another that he wrote for Laurie Pepper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWLacnTFK1o |
acman3,
Doug Watkins is a great bass player. Every time I think of Watkins I hear Art Blakey’s intro of the band live at Café Bohemia.
Quoting Art word for word:
"On the bass all the way from motor city ladies and gentlemen, one of the youngest and finest bass players in the business today, Our Bassist Doug Watkins!...Doug Watkins!
|
|
Well I searched Amazon again and found it. The CD price was too high so I purchase the MP3 download for 10 bucks. If anyone else is interested here is the link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00138HAGA/ref=dm_ty_trk%3C/a%3EThere are some very insightful comments on the You Tube link orpheus10 posted. It Appears this was a late night jam session in Philly that was recorded and the personnel beside Clifford was probably together for the first and only time just this one night. Besides Clifford Brown there was Billy Root (tenor sax), Sam Dockery (piano), Ace Tisone (bass), Ellis Tollin (drums This is a must have for Clifford fans. I will listen to the MP3 later and check out the sound quality. |
orpheus10,
Your Clifford Brown selections are great. Clifford is my favorite trumpeter. I have pretty much all of his recording sessions but I have not been able to locate the live version of A Night in Tunisia that you posted.
I searched around a few months ago but gave up. Maybe someone could point me in the right direction.
|
acman3 thanks for the Bob Sheppard links. I have been listening to many other Sheppard songs on You Tube since 5am this morning. I have none of his recordings but will start now. I found this one which is lead by the pianist David Kikoski with Sheppard on the sax: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOcDw3Atd60&list=OLAK5uy_k4NZKzSqOop-hxcQENRIXVAC1DxJS7z4E&i...The album is titled "From The Hip" The rest of the songs on the album can be found using the above link. A really good session. |
orpheus10,
I think Carmen McRae has a fantastic voice. I have the 3 disc set titled "Carmen McRae A Collection Of Her Finest Decca Recordings 1955 - 1958" and "Live At The Flamingo Jazz Club" along with a twofer disc "Take 5 with Dave Brubeck" and "Live At Sugar Hill"
|
rok, Schubert, and orpheus10, My father, born in 1919 and passed away in 2009 was a veteran of WWII and it had affected him for the remainder of his life. He served in the 25th Infantry Division - Tropic Lightning and relieved the USMC on Guadalcanal. After the combat on Guadalcanal he was hospitalized for combat fatigue. He started to drink heavily and spent a lot of time in military jails for drunkenness and disorderly public conduct. After striking a superior he never saw combat action again. He did get an Honorable Discharge. After the war he was an alcoholic until 1966 when I was 3 years old my mother gave him an ultimatum - quit drinking or I’m divorcing you. He went to a V.A. hospital for 2 weeks for detox and then attended AA meetings and never picked up another drink until he died. He never spoke of what happened over there on the Solomon Islands. When I was entertaining thoughts of joining the military after high school he strongly disapproved and I never went in. This was in 1980. He was a regular in anti - war rallies and protests. 25th I.D. https://www.armydivs.com/25th-infantry-division |
mary jo, Combat affects everyone differently. War is decided when all hope for diplomatic solutions are exhausted.The politicians who make these decisions are never close to the "tip of the spear" I posted about how combat affected my father but nobody seemed to care or it was simply overlooked. Here it is again: **************My father, born in 1919 and passed away in 2009 was a veteran of WWII and it had affected him for the remainder of his life. He served in the 25th Infantry Division - Tropic Lightning and relieved the USMC on Guadalcanal. After the combat on Guadalcanal he was hospitalized for combat fatigue. He started to drink heavily and spent a lot of time in military jails for drunkenness and disorderly public conduct. After striking a superior he never saw combat action again. He did get an Honorable Discharge. After the war he was an alcoholic until 1966 when I was 3 years old my mother gave him an ultimatum - quit drinking or I’m divorcing you. He went to a V.A. hospital for 2 weeks for detox and then attended AA meetings and never picked up another drink until he died. He never spoke of what happened over there on the Solomon Islands. When I was entertaining thoughts of joining the military after high school he strongly disapproved and I never went in. This was in 1980. He was a regular in anti - war rallies and protests.********** 25th I.D. https://www.armydivs.com/25th-infantry-divisionSince my father never told me about where he was or what he did in the war when I received his Honorable Discharge document at Rosecrans National Cemetery in San Diego California I found on the document a simple 2 word explanation of what he did (I had to wait until he died to finally know). It read: Campaigns: Guadalcanal. That's when I was able to research which Army units saw combat on the Solomon Islands and which division my father was in. It was nice to see after hearing only the negative side of his story my whole life. |
|
Thanks all for your thoughts on my father.
frogman as I have listened to Timmons' Moanin' hundreds of times being a big Art Blakey fan naturally I compared it to Mingus' rendition which I have had the "Blues And Roots" album for 10 years or more now but have listened to Timmons' Moanin' 10x as much, being, as orpheus10 said, the one true Moanin'.
And yes, I tried many times when I did listen to the Mingus Moanin', to see if I heard any similarities in the notes and melody. Of course I could not find any and so "assumed" , not having any scholarly musical background, that maybe it was the same song played at an up tempo (there are many jazz tunes in which this is true). Anyway I'm happy I now know for a certainty that they are not the same song.
Maybe someone can post the sheet music on the 2 songs (just the opening pages) so I can see what is obvious to those in the music field.
|
|
Typical of you rok,
I was referring to alex because I am sure he was talking about the recent history of the Balkans.
If you dare to talk about the Balkan's region in any other context (and I did not even click on your link A hole), I would be more then happy to debate your idiotic viewpoints but I do not think a jazz forum is the place to argue with a narcissistic prick such as yourself.
|
alex, Anyone who has to dig a trench on the front and sit in it knows. Anyone who make comments like rok has obviously never been in a fox hole. I have read quite a few books on the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans in the 90's. If you were there and experienced it, whether Muslim or Christian, all I can say is god bless you. I know you do not listen to rock anymore but this ones for you: Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of death's construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh Lord yeah Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight
They leave that all to the poor, yeah Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait 'till their judgment day comes, yeah Now in darkness world stops turning
As the war machine keeps burning?
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgment God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing spreads his wings
Oh Lord yeah |
|
Thanks mary jo for my song and all the other songs as well.
frogman I know you mean well and I agree with all you have to say.
However when one member on this forum makes disrespectful and degrading remarks that are obviously aimed at another member, which clearly show the pattern of a narcissist, and is not done just here and there but constantly on a daily basis to every other member on this forum I can only take so much.
I hope these condescending posts by this member stop now for good.
|
|
|
|
