|
Paul, that album was cut with same personal and on the same session with Grant's Green 'Idle moments', aldo it stayed unissued for years.
I have it as well |
Guys, take a look at the next thread 'has all the decency left the planet'.
I have changed few lines with Frogman, probably nobody else there will
join the conversation, so we might even continue with it here, if you find it enough interesting to say something about it.... |
I was just trying to be more practical in a sense that 'here' I feel more comfortable and I dont mind sharing or discussing my thoughts with people I ve done before (which is possible, but unlikey to continue on 'other' thread)
If you still find it inappropriate, sorry, it was not my intention to seem blunt
But, let me continue with an answer to your last comment (if I may here, or should we continue where we started?)
No, I do no think that one necessarily needs to know the history of something to fully enjoy it.
I could easily, but I would not, because, to use your own words, 'how we can messure that? ' (level of someones enjoyment)
But, all of that is not the point in which I am looking to hear more from you
This next sentence, where I am quoting you again is something that I would like to hear more explanation about it ....'
'why is it surprising that in an age when there has been a concerted effort to remove God and spirituality from education... Bach’s music should be disrespected like this'.... ...
|
Well, Schubert, as you already said in that thread, I guess it might be the case of some lunatic.
But, I would strongly oppose to any thought or potential try to implement any God into any education, outside the religion comunitys.
Imho opinion, such subject should be taught as matter of general education, as a philosopical concept or as a sociological or historical fact, but no religion should be part of any education (it should remain private thing)
Suggesting that somehow people would have lesser moral values without such (religious) education is something that I could not agree less |
Frogman, thank you for your answer, your point of view is quite clear to me.
I really do hope that I did not cause any inconvinience to you with shifting the subject to a thread where it was not meant to be.
My perspective is different, as is our background, education or our social world.
However I fully respect and understand yours, no matter that I do not agree with it.
Of course that I could write number of reasons that would support my thoughts, but as you said, none of them would have anythinig with music.
Since this is not the place to discuss the criticism of religion or its influence on society or people in general,(do not want to generalise, but I do not find them to be so positive) I guess we should wait for such topic to arise on some other thread.
In meantime, I would use the words of Schubert for conclusion of this small talk
Just to answer to your question, I think that nobody has or should have an exclusive rights for spirituality |
Frogman, I do not think that we have any disagreement and I too now some people who found their way to more substantial life by opening themself to God.
That is not the issue, neither do I think that practising any religion is problem, of course.
My point is that I think that such things should remain private, not part of any public education, constitution or such.
In that sense I only do not agree with you when you write and I quote again... 'why is it surprising that in an age when there has been a concerted effort to remove God and spirituality from education'....
I do not believe that by removing any religous learnings from 'public' education would turn world for worse.
Reagrding sprituality, we would need to define the term to understand how and where one can get in touch with it, but we are all aware that there are lots of ways to feel it.
Schubert, moral is category that has always been changebale and aldo western civilzation has much of christian heritage in culture or philosophy, its morals were not always ethical.
Perhpas that might be reason why mentioning of it is left out from constitution of EU.
Paul I deply respect anyones belifs, hope you understand that and I am certainly not trying to know who is religous or not,as it is not my business, just expressed different way of thinking about remark that Frogman made
in another thread. |
|
To my untrained ears, Lundy seems to be more 'articulate' in her expression than Thurman.
I think there are many great new singers (voice vise) but I find it hard to find them 'believable' when they cover standards. (speaking in general)
It is perhaps because of my preconception, as german poet Rilke said, that poems are written out of experience not out of feelings, so I am kind of more inclined toward singers whom I imagine have felt or have more 'connection' with the things they sing about.
In one way, singing is very hard, if you look at it that way, because I think that is 'easier' to play and express emotions (even if they do not mimic yours) than to sing them...
|
Orpheus, when I was in high school, listened to War, still have albums with Eric Burdon. This was one of my favourites back than. https://youtu.be/HDYLVtu9ab0here is an interesting live video of them, playing in Denmark... https://youtu.be/wln_zQsynNYPaul, Coleman is a new name to me, will take a listen |
|
Schubert, if this is of any meaning to you, I would be quite sad if you leave. If my memories serves me right, once before you have already taken the pause from the thread and I was glad when you have returned. Odd as it may seem, since this is quite impersonal way of communication, still is and man somehow becomes 'close' to all caracters here, despite or because of their diversity. I guess written things might seem 'heavier' than spoken ones and with that notion in mind, it becomes easier to look over some. As Johnny Cash would say in StQuentin prison.... 'I can understan how do you fell about some things,not of my business how do you think about some other things and I dont give a damn how do you feel abot some other things'.... Well, if that does not work, than I can only think of this... https://youtu.be/2lAY-rRRa4o |
|
Acman, that trumpet player, Hardman, I would like to find some album with him as a leader. Any recommendations? In the meantime, Billy Cobham - Horace Silver - Bill Hardman - Bennie Maupin - John Williams: NUTVILLE (1968) https://youtu.be/KKGBLjjy-hQ |
|
Acman, thanks, that will do. I was aware of the first album, will listen the others too. I like his sound. There are players that come up on some albums that I like, but its hard to find some good albums where they had a chance to record as leaders. For example, this guy, Dolo Coker, piano player, would like to hear more of him as well, he played with 'everybody', but all of his solo work he recorded in 'later' years https://youtu.be/aLFg7s64dYYhttps://youtu.be/ISmLAh0UAKYhttps://youtu.be/mAQNj0XXdvE |
Paul, call me oldfashioned, but yes, I liked the MM Ensemble,(liked the J.Pelt as well, in case you missed my post) it has that reminiscence to older sound. But, than again, it will be hard for me to exit my 'comfort zone' if I continue 'that way' ha,ha.... https://youtu.be/qK2hwkOHNKI |
|
Nsp, thanks, it is not on ytube but I saw the other album with same line up, recorded in roughly the same time, called ’Dolo’ https://youtu.be/nmyV8aY9Um8It seems that this one was made around the same time, same label, Frank Butler is leader, album is called ’Captain kid’ https://youtu.be/U8TD8yidsCgI have very litlle jazz made in 70’s, in fact still did not get ’there’, listening to sound of it, interesting...new sensation... As for the other subject, there are well known essays of Aldous Huxly, called ’The doors of perception and Heaven and hell’ where he elaborates on his psychedelic experience under the influence of mescaline and reflects on their philosophical and psychological implications. Very interesting, especially the part where he looks the different art works and contemplate on it as well as the part where he thinks of origins of such inspirations and creations |
Refarding the article about the RVG, if that is of any significance to anyone, the author is mostly correct, but he forgot one very important thing to add. It is the mastering of those tapes and later work done by different people, that makes the ’recording’ as such and that is what we finally listen as a product in a form of cd or lp. There are very big differences between same albums that are mastered by different people and again, differences between formats (lp. sacd or cd) So, I guess, only the lucky ones who listened original tapes or their copies prior their mastering, are the ones who can really know how good or not RVG’ s work was
|
Paul. sometimes less is more.
Like I said, I have had few systems and not long ago I had Dcs Puccini with clock,as source, with Arc Ref 3 and Avantgarde Acoustic active speakers.
With music that we discuss here (all older production) I have discovered that many recordings have become less enjoyable, meaning that I could hear all the 'details', including the limits of recordings and masterings.
Usually I know all the players on some record, than I had to remember the mastering engineenir as well.
I think that trend in industry (as I listen to different systems that my frineds have) is such that many new gear is 'less musical' and 'more analytical'.
My choice now is all tubes, p.single ended amp and preamp, together with speakers that have higher impedance (8ohm min)
Like I said, if I could find and get all music that I like on vinyl, I would not look for anything else.
Frogman, have nothing to add. Perhaps only that I have many Verve remasters, usually great sound, much better than RVG last edition of remasters ( older Blue Note editions sound much better to me) |
Orpheus, I do not use pc audio, listen only to original cd's and I am also very carefull which editions I buy.
Changed few systems in last decade, at one point had all Burmester top of the line set up (except speakers), also my last cd/sacd player was Dcs with added clock, it would be rude to even mention its price and still I find the music from even modest analog rig more 'natural' in lack of better word, never mind the rest, which when evaluated in audiophile terms could be perceived as 'better' sound.
Music on sacd's, new production is great, but old production on that format, even when its from Analogue productions still cant beat good lp, imho
If I could afford it, I would buy only records and would have only analog set up,
Frogman, do you like RVG's editions or not?
Maybe its a silly questions, in sense that they contain such essential music, that sometimes sound becomes less important,no matter the paradox of that sentence |
Orpheus, my experience is very different.
I think many things 'matter' in audio (including all cables) but its up to any individual to decide how far he will go in pursuing such endeavour, as building a very good system is.
Also, level of enjoyment is not necessery conected to invested funds, everything is in 'the head' of the listener or observer...
What I ment, when I said 'If I could afford' is that price of buying big collection of jazz music on lp's is much higher than having an expensive system.
I've had some pricey gear ,for exmp.Burmester 001, 011, 956mk2 (in fact its cheaper in Europe than in US) and so on, but to buy 2000 records would cost me double of that, or even much more, because I bought my gear in second hand and that I would not do if I would buy records.
Aldo I listen music on cd's and on quite decent equipment, I still think that analog sound is just 'better', more 'natural', even when cost of the gear is much in favour of digital.
|
|
Orpheus,funny, one of my friends recently got his hands on audible illusions preamp, not sure if its the same model like yours, no remote and two separate volume controls for each canal? He has McCormack amp, was very pleased with sound of the preamp, but at the and he has changed it for ARC, more of convinience, I would say. (volume adjusting drove him mad) Just got three more albums of Johnny Smith, the guitar player. Very nice guitar sound, great playing Johnny Smith 'Foursome vol 2' https://youtu.be/etY4rGw8Z8Ihttps://youtu.be/rYc_f-XJYIwJ.S. 'Favourites' https://youtu.be/1nFjeLC4QS4https://youtu.be/igye8GfNLBkJ.S.' Designed for you' https://youtu.be/oSVicw6qj4Ihttps://youtu.be/RAuEMBjIuy4 |
|
Pryso, I stand corrected, but none the less, I recommend that album from 1961. Rok, I ve got that album and if you do not have this one, would recommend it to you (and to all others, of course) Its Bille Holiday album, live in Cologne (Koeln) Germany, from 1954, plus some other recordings from Us. Billlie's Blues (since there are lots of albums and compilations, here is the link for the original cover from All music com)
https://www.allmusic.com/album/billies-blues-blue-note-mw0000195791
some music from album, great line up https://youtu.be/rpHgvYKYQMAhttps://youtu.be/qN_qCnNP-wMThe cd I got its Blue Note edition and the sound is quite good, better than man could tell by listening these clips from ytube |
|
Frogman, I understand and I agree, about the art in general.
Still, as outsider I am not quite sure what do you and Rok mean by 'ideology' ?
Obviously, your different points of view are not releted to music only, but to 'politics' in wider sense of a word.
Why would someone as
knowledgeable as Wynton claim something that is not true and with it put his reputation at stake?
Is it too much to ask that we stick to that subject and that you guys express your thoughts? Others are welcome too.
Here, where I come from, we have sort of ongoing conflict between different national and religous groups which is silly, because they are all beeing exploited by the same class of people only wearing different 'colors' (has nothing to do with race)
Just wanted to say that members of different nations (here) are trying so hard to present themself as different from another (despite sharing many, many things, including language, which is also something majority strongly deny) and that they would never publicly admit that they have anything that conects them.
Is there something like that in US going on (talking about origins of jazz music) ?
If there is some ideology behind it, I would asume that there would be more people who think like Rok, but than again, I cant imagine that somebody like Wynton would deny something so crucial for identity and heritage, not only his, but of whole nation? |
Rok, had an opportunity to see her performing, in 98. or 99.. She sure sounded right to me.
Thanks for the answer, by the way.
I am not sure that I can follow the nuances between you and Frogman, but maybe thats even better.
If I can make a joke, still, I am glad that you too at least share similar political views.
Only Love.... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I beleive that men should accept certain inalienable truths: ’prices will rise, politicians will philander, you too will get old-- and when you do, you’ll fantasize that when you were young prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders’... ...and that music, or film, or art in general, was better.... But, than, on the other hand....during the summer, I have the opportunity to meet many young folks from all over the world (last few years worked as a skipper on different boats) and these are not definitive conclusions, just thoughts as I would watch them having fun at holidays.... Perhaps the reason might be the postmornism time that we all live in, but I cant help to notice that there is almost complete lack of any individualism or personal taste in all senses, including one towards music, individual look or social presentation. Everyone are almost identical clones and the ’social’ media and its influence is so important and in the same time profoundly shallow and superficial. I dont think that holidays are to blame for such picture. I know that in history of art 50 years (or more) is just a moment and that is very possible that some new generations might create bigger and more important works, but I do not see that coming very soon. I am not pessimistic (aldo one can argue that pessimist is an educated optimist) but much before before this new wide spread events I did not like the way the things (regarding ’culture’ in general) were developing. ...in the meantime on lighter note... https://youtu.be/2iNx3rKkwJQedit. Paul, nice. Have Lou Donaldson's and Maceo's albums |
Thanks, Paul. Happy holidays to everyone.
Not the best weather here and also not a best time to wonder around the town, so I guess I will spend the day tiding up my home...and listening music....kind of like this
|
|
|
Paul, Jacquet-Webster album is knew for me, will try ro listen it. Frogman, I know the story of Martino, its fascinating, also never heard that Blakey album, will have to check it Regarding 'new horizons' few days ago watched documentary on tv about Jaco Pastorius, it was on ytube as well, looks like it was removed. Here is the trailer https://youtu.be/xYE-tm8UBSMAnyway, I was never a fan of fusion and in fact I always wondered how such transition (from 'classic' jazz) ever happened. Shame on me, but after I watched the documentary, I understood. Meaning, heard what the protagonists had to say about their thougts and feelings towards the music, about social circumstances and about that moment in time in general. Its just one foreigner's opinion, by looking America from distance, but its only natural that with all that social and other changes, the music took new turns as well. In fact, it would be strange if it did not. I still do not like that music,ha,ha, but I understand where it comes from and it finally made sense (to me,at least) |
|
Acman, you are welcome.
There is a 3 cd album (three different days recorded) from that concert in Stockholm, in case you wonder its very well recorded, it reallly captures the live performance |
Regarding Getz-Baker tour in Sweden...
reading notes from cd booklet....words from pianist Jim McNeely...
’What aggravated the G.-B. relationship was what might be described as conflict of addictions. G.at the time was drinking heavily and B.was using heroin’....’Stan had a attitude about Chet’s using drugs.Perhaps if they had been doing the same substance they might have got along better together’...’everybody liked him (Chet) and enyojed his music, but because of Stan’s inflexible attitude, there wasn’t the kind of interplay that I had hopped for when I first heard about the tour. The two of them were in different zones and there was no real empathy’....’about halfway the tour Getz told to organisers ’either he goes or I go’....etc.
Interesting read, but also somehow sad. Aldo Getz was drug user himself, by looking at him at the beginning of that video, he does not seem to have the looks or the moves of someone doing heroin (at the time), so I guess the story is pretty much true...and Zoot Simms might have been closer to truth than we think...he (Getz) probbably was ’great bunch of guys... |
My father never was in Spain, not to mention Mexico, yet somehow, he is very fond of music from those parts.
Who knows from where all our likings towards some music come from?
I listened with cuorisity music that its been posted lately and its very nice music indeed, but its just that I do not feel that its ’related’ to me, which is funny thing to say because I cant honestly find some rational explenation why do I feel very different when its ’classic’ jazz in question...
I mean, white boy from somewhere near eastern europe, with house full of jazz music....it sounds strange even to me....
I guess I’ll just have to listen more and try to hear better my inner voice speaking....just hope that I will not hear ’bunch of guys’ whispering...
Will wait for ’my turn’ to post something, dont want to interrupt the flow...
|
Orpheus, thank you for Sonny Rollins recommendation, as great as he is, I find his sound 'to hard' for my liking. Have few albums, of course, but must admit that I do not listen his works often... Here is one album that perhaps you dont have.... album 'Jazz from Carnegie Hall Live in Amsterdam 1958'
one-day concer
,featured in various combinations in the jam session style, Lee Konitz, Zoot Sims, Phineas Newborn, Jr., Red Garland, Oscar Pettiford and Kenny Clarke.
https://youtu.be/pf9TWdq7c88https://youtu.be/BGeb7CQDGzohttps://youtu.be/_I74iuKljhQhttps://youtu.be/fHeZqIveMXw |
|
Orpheus, I ordered the cd album, but there is also a vinyl edition...
Nice, but also haunting Nina Simone clip.... |
