schubert, forgetting is easier said than done. I was only there from the safety of distance in intelligence photos. So I admit I can't truly imagine what the experience must have been.
Now I would hope you can find peace through the escape in music. Focus on that as much as your time will allow. I too hope you don't leave, you are a worthy contributor. Perhaps when you visit the site your discipline will allow you to skip to the next post as soon as you see anything other than jazz being mentioned and not become tangled in "the other stuff".
Such analysis is beyond my pay grade but I suspect that continuing on here could be beneficial in being reminded of older music you've forgotten, by hearing new things you enjoy, and by generally stoking your mind with information on a subject you obviously enjoy so much. Peace brother. |
rok, don't mean to jump on you while you're jousting with frogman, but a question for your "these country ears" and "More Mississippi-ish" references.
Weren't you the one who expressed dislike for Mose Allison a year or more ago? If so, considering his origins, how does that mesh?
If I'm wrong thinking it was you never mind.
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rok, you mentioned a post by acman3 with "I Only Have Eyes For You" by Bowie. Can you (or anyone else) direct me to that? I looked back several pages but didn't find it.
A few pages ago o10 posted the original doo-wop vocal version. After that I posted a link to Bowie's band playing it in concert. But that version doesn't stand up to his original LP recording which I can no longer find on YouTube. So if anyone knows where to find that original I'd appreciate a link here. |
acman, good choice (so to speak). ;^)
I was well into adulthood before I gained any appreciation for C&W. The exception were the outlaws, led by Willie Nelson.
But I happened to agree to attend a George Jones concert with a friend who was a fan. I gained a lot of respect for him and his music that night.
However bottom line, my own philosophy is that we should all be held accountable for the choices we make in life. True, we can be influenced by friends or others around us, but final decisions are our own and we should own up to our choices.
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frog, I've read the same account of the tiff between Miles and Monk as o10 related, but no idea of where I read it or how long ago. Anyway, your reasoning about Silver makes sense.
Now even though I have that disk, I've not listened to it for some time. But playing your link offered a minor revelation. Bags' solo prior to when Monk came in was the perfect intro. It was like he offered up a small tribute to Monk's style. I enjoyed that.
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o10, " they know full well that if you don't have a big buck high end rig, CD's sound better."
Well, that's one opinion. I don't happen to agree. If you have some basic mechanical knowledge you could buy an AR-XA table and arm for example for maybe $200 and do a basic restoration (clean up, re-lube, new belt, adjust the arm) and install a new Grado or Audio Technica cartridge for $300 (tops). I don't think $500 is "big buck" but with that and any number of original release jazz LPs in decent condition (may require a little time in a thrift store if you don't already have any) one could get very good sonics and deep enjoyment from the music. Some would argue with more depth and body to the music than a CD system for 3-4 X that. I say that because I've done it a couple of times for friends.
But this is not the Analog forum so maybe not the place to discuss such things. So to each their own. ;^)
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o10, I was quite surprised to read this from you: "Here’s Miles Davis sounding like Cannonball wants him to sound".
With your deep experience with jazz personalities do you really feel Miles’ ego by the late ’50s would allow him to play as someone else wanted? I just can’t imagine that happening, even as a sideman on someone else’s recording, as commonly credited in this case. His approach on that recording sounds pretty much like the other things he was doing at that time. And given how ofter Miles changed his style, just as frog mentioned, can you compare anything he did in 1957 to that from 1964?
BTW, I never owned a Marantz CD player but I’ve heard models a few friends own, good choice.
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rok, a word of caution with your Yamaha. I’m not an EE or a tech, but electrolytic caps go bad with age. There is no universal life expectancy I’m aware of, some say 10 years, others say 15. The point is they will leak or fail at some point. If your Yamaha is 35 years old there is a very high probability it will have problems. It may still play but it certainly won’t perform at its design capability.
The fact it has been in a closet (not being used) makes the problem worse. Capacitors need to be charged (turned on) with some regularity to last as long as possible.
I speak from experience. I had two amps in storage for some time before I got around to selling them. Both were more than 10 years old and both had been idle the last few years. Both also failed on turn-on and required repair to sell them. And yes, both worked fine the last time I tried either of them before setting them aside.
Sorry but this also raises the question; how old are your HK and Marantz amps? If either is 10 or more years then even though they work they may not be up to their designed performance. Restoring any of your amps should cost much less than buying a new one. But if you do consider a new amp I would say one of the Parasound models should be a reasonable choice.
PS -- I think you hit upon the answer to the "Somethin Else" album credit. |
"electrolytic capacitors go downhill in such a way that you don’t realize it until the quality of audio is really bad."
Very true o10. But that condition applies to several parts of an audio system; vacuum tubes weaken as they age (and sometimes get noisy), styli (needles) wear and lose detail, speaker cone surrounds can disintegrate (particularly foam types), and electrolytic caps (in particular) and other electronic parts can drift out of their specified values. So does this mean we all need to buy new systems every 10 years or so? Absolutely not. But we must be aware of the limitations of each part in our audio systems. Even CD players can fail if the laser burns out. But then it won't play so you know it's time to change. ;^)
In fact there are many older components which can still offer very good performance, and not just the expensive ones like McIntosh or Audio Research. But the owner must expect to perform, or have a tech perform, certain parts upgrades to renew performance. In some cases, like certain capacitors, resistors, or transistors, performance can be improved over what was available when the component was new 10, 20, 30 years ago.
It is no different than our cars, or other appliance. Some maintenance must be expected. The real question is are we better off having the older component restored, or recycling it and buying something new? |
mary_jo, that spelling joke is an old one. It was funny (humorous) to me that it has traveled around the world in all these years. Also, you know this but I'm not the same person as pjw. ;^) But too bad if some gentleman never treated you to a romantic, candle-lit dinner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4TtJ0ZP0MY |
Sarah -- I've mentioned before that when I got into jazz in HS I joined the Columbia Record Club, so most of my selections were jazz. That's how I got initial copies of Kind of Blue, Time Out, and What Is There To Say. But I had to include at least one vocal and this is the album I picked -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-91ZKvNiiJcSo you could say she and I go way back. ;^) |
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o10, regarding Ahmad Jamal, in college in the early ’60s several friends and I went downtown for his concert. We were all fans and looked forward to seeing/hearing him in person. So he came out with his trio and sat down at the keyboard and began his first number. Within a few seconds he stopped and scowled at the instrument. He then tried a few short runs which only drew a shake of his head. Suddenly he stood up and walked off the stage. We just looked at one another, all of us stunned. Someone started a rhythmic clapping and most of the audience joined in. But to no avail. A minute later some guy came onstage and announced the concert was cancelled. Later on when I’d learned more about concert performances I wondered why he hadn’t played a warm up prior to the performance to be certain the piano was tuned to suit him? Sorry rok, I had to offer it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0e2G32f3IU |
rok, I was unaware of that Cannonball recording. I'm not a big fan of electric piano but I did enjoy those. Not as much as the originals, but still fun to hear new interpretations.
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I liked the latest two best, but would agree with rok and pick 1963 as the one I enjoyed most.
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alex, a lotta years in between.
My link, "After hours with Sarah Vaughn" was first released in 1949, then rereleased in 1955 (didn't realize that before).
Yours, "Sarah Vaughn - After Hours" was from 1961.
Interesting that she released two albums with such similar titles.
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rok, thanks for that O'Day with OP. They worked well together.
I've posted her two numbers from Newport '58 a couple of times. I never could find another performance by her I liked so well, for me it was mesmerizing. Just forget about the (daytime) audience.
And mary_jo, thank you for the Beck clip. I understand if he may not be played much in a jazz listing, but good music is good music.
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acman, not much mention of McLaughlin here. I became aware of him when he joined Miles for "In A Silent Way" and then "Bitches Brew". Soon after that he became a leader for fusion with his group The Mahavishnu Orchestra.
Recently a writer contacted me online who is researching a book on The Mahavishnu Orchestra. He found something I'd posted some time ago on an audio site listing favorite concerts. One of those for me was seeing McLaughlin and TMO live back in 1972. That was unforgettable with the energy and interplay among the five members of the band.
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Anyone else know Jack Teagarden?
Growing up I heard my dad play a lot of Louie Armstrong, especially with the All Stars, which in the early years included Teagarden. As a teenager I couldn't really appreciate it, but as I grew older I did.
So today I remain a fan of much of Satchmo's music, but there is also some good Teagarden stuff out there too.
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rok, I don’t listen to headphones often but my "go to" for a reasonable price for years has been their HD-580.
Great natural tone.
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jafant, more than just a name -
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acman, when I was in college back in the early '60s I saw the great documentary, "Jazz on a Summer's Day". Giuffre, Brookmeyer, and Hall opened that with "The Train and the River". That was my introduction to Guiffre and I thought it was really cool.
Of course, lots of other great music in that film, particularly Anita O'Day. I never heard anything else by her that was so much fun.
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Interesting point frog (as usual). I would think someone with Elling's stature could command a better suited conductor. Someone with a better sense of jazz and "attitude" as you say.
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mahgister, sorry if this cuts your digestion time short. Here are two more guitarists you should know if not already familiar with them. Interestingly they both recorded with your countryman Oscar Peterson, not exactly a mellow artist, although he was expressive with ballads.
Joe Pass -
And Herb Ellis -
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If you like Joe Pass, check this out. Playing only with Pederson so very focused. Try 7:18 for a nice versions of "Round Midnight".
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acman3, your succinct reply to my question about brevity was appropriate, so I saw the humor in that.
But I realized I should not have included a simple album posting. Those typically seem to either answer a previous question or offer a recommended listing, at least when a link to the album/performance is included.
So I think now I should have ask why simply state an artist's name? What do we infer from that?
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Thanks frog. I've never been a major fan of big bands, but the TJ&MLBB is one I enjoy. And it was fun watching Thad direct in that video.
And that reminded me of one of my favorite Monk albums -
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pjw, old? I saw Louie Armstrong and The All Stars live when I was 10 or 11. Probably not many here in my age group!
frog, my subconscious solves many things for me overnight. Without that I'd be even more lost. ;^)
Here's an earlier performance by Satch and Teagarden.
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frog, interesting point about instrumentalists studying or reciting lyrics. I never gave that much consideration before, but it makes sense. Simply playing the musical lines of a song can allow improvisation. But knowing the lyrics should allow more insight into the intent of the composer, and thus suggest more essence in the interpretation.
mahgister, I'd say you are more on a roll than on a rant. I agree that my most favored musicians are those who can "speak" with their instruments. Regardless of the type of music -- jazz, blues, classical, world music, etc. -- it is the performer's ability to express their emotion that really speaks to me.
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An honest question:
When aficionados post only the name of an artist or album, what is your intent?
Are you simply reminding us of that person or album?
Are you recommending them/it?
Are you looking for discussion about them or it?
I'm simply puzzled why when I see that.
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Was OP a bebop artist? I return for this one question based upon respect for the knowledge of many of the aficionados here. This link of Oscar Peterson has recently had a bit of exposure. In it Beato makes a couple of references for Peterson being a bebop pianist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj93v9j2A4AI admit I never thought of him as an example of that style. Yes, he was fast and played with virtuosity of performance (keys of bebop styling) but Oscar doesn't come to mind for me when I think of Bird, Dizzy, and other notable bebop musicians. So I'm curious, how many of you would identify Oscar Peterson as a bebop artist? |
Thanks acman, that fits. ;^) |
Thanks frog. An audio pal and good buddy used to argue that Torme was one of the best jazz male vocalists ever, better than Sinatra. That usually resulted in arguments. ;^)
And yes, liked Woods too. |
Another thanks frog. That merits two comments.
Regardless of which you feel is the best jazz vocalist, I've never seen a video of Sinatra having as much fun performing as Torme on "Love For Sale".
Also, and I hope I haven't related this joke here previously. It was a cartoon panel with an announcement by a galley slave captain.
"OK men, I have good news and bad news.
The good news is we're rowing to Bermuda.
The bad news is Buddy Rich will be our drummer." |
For those who missed it in the link in frog's post on Rich giving a "pep talk" to his band after a performance. This comes from Jerry Seinfeld, not someone I'd expect to know about or talk about Buddy Rich. Found the link on the side of the Rich post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWP77C4StLs |
schubert, I know this is a jazz site, but since you mentioned Bjorling, I'll offer this.
Admittedly I'm not much of an opera fan, although I enjoy several overtures. But years ago I heard a RCA CD, "Opera Goes To The Movies". That was a budget effort to rerelease several old recordings from their vast catalog of arias which were used in film soundtracks. One was Bjorling singing "Nessun Dorma". He sends a chill down my spine every time I hear that. I don't try to explain it, just admit how it affects me, the power and emotion. (Or did I just explain it?)
And yes, I've heard a few versions with Pavarotti too. Good but no chill. We like what we most react to. |
As a foursome they were well known back in the day. Individually only Getz and Sims were popular and recorded often. Steward and Chaloff not so much.
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Thanks pjw for that interview. I've read the Miles wanted to record with Hendrix but wondered how he was exposed to his music -- radio airplay? friend's records?
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keegaim, if you want to dig deeper into Miles, among the many bios I might suggest "Miles, The Autobiography" with Quincy Troupe. That is if you are looking for more than you'll find by sampling recordings from his various "periods". |
pjw, I'm curious about defining the "golden age of jazz from 1935 through 1965"? Is that your framework or someone else's?
I ask because I have a different perspective. Perhaps not "golden age" but for me the real beginning of modern jazz begins in the late 1920s with Louis Armstrong's Hot Five and Hot Seven recordings. There was more foundation in the late 30s with Hawkins, Ellington, Basie, Goodman, etc. But that was interrupted until after WW2 when Parker, Gillespie and BeBop emerged. Any sort of "golden age" was not carried forward by Glen Miller and the like. That term to me suggests a continuous time period of creative development.
With that I see the "golden age" for jazz running from 1946 or 7 to around 1965. Or maybe I'm simply defining the period I like best and consider to be the most influential? No offense if you see it differently.
Never having been a boxing fan I can't comment on that aspect. |
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I admit to my lack to technical musical knowledge, but see no need to apologize for it. I still feel the emotion when listening and that pleases me. Good music (on my personal scale) imprints itself within me. I'm sometimes surprised, yet delighted, that just a few notes from a recording and I recognize it, even when I may not have heard it for a few years. OK I do wish I'd learned to play some instrument when I was young, but that has not diminished a lifetime of musical enjoyment. Back to Farmer, for those interested, let me suggest one of the first jazz albums I bought. I suggested it here at least once before, but I will again since it remains on my favorites list. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdCJNAko0B4&list=PLoWjNId-4Pl7lvvzIY5iyXqDsjlsmIZAY |
Wow, frog, that's a very impressive list. Certainly many there I would not have guessed. Although some (Jaco) were born in the area rather than in the city itself. Maybe the air is cleaner than in NYC? ;^) |
Influence of Miles, and --
Others may know this but it was recent news for me. Watching a program on the making of Pink Floyd's classic "Dark Side of the Moon", I learned that PF keyboard player Richard Wright said a major influence in his playing was jazz, and particularly Miles' "KOB" album. He found an offbeat chord there that he then used on Dark Side.
This information came just over a week after reading that Greg Allman - Allman Brothers Band - listened repeatedly to "KOB" and he learned improvisation from that.
Some years ago an interview with Roger McGuinn - Byrds - credited Coltrane with inspiring his jangly guitar intro to "Eight Miles High".
There likely have been many other jazz influences on pop/rock recordings but I don't know enough about music to pick those out. Still an interesting note that while jazz popularity was diminishing the rock music that became so dominant looked to jazz for creativity. |
rok, the album image surprised me with a post on Classical for Aficinonados. I'd never experienced that before. I just copied the link name as always but when I attached that it appeared only for a second, they was replaced by the album image.
Thinking I'd made a mistake I tried again but had the same result.
Here's an experiment to try again -
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acman, thanks for that Chico. I got that when it was new but somehow lost it over the years. So a long time since I heard it but it was all familiar again.
frog I prefer the old method too. But then my younger friends tease me about that! ;^)
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Here's something different, a book recommendation. At the very least it could be a nice gift for friends/family who are jazz novices. Although I've been listening for decades and still found it worth reading. Maybe because author Gioia is a musician and I'm not.
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Honoring Charlie Mingus' Birthday!
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