rok, one of my deleted posts was simply a link to a classic blues performance with double entendre lyrics. That was quite popular at one time.
The other was simply a correction to a reference that mentioned a trombonist being male when in fact it was a female.
In my mind both posts were simply straight forward information, not political or otherwise suggestive. They were historical and factual. What can I say?
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Holiday jazz? Check out the line up here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U5HpTqOTDQpjw, I'm a Chicago fan too. I'm sure you know the original group all had strong music backgrounds prior to forming, not your typical garage band rock group who couldn't play beyond 3 basic cords. |
There is hope for the future of jazz.
I attended a jazz band concert at a small, private Great Lakes area college last evening. I came away with two positive impressions.
First, there was real musical talent in the 19 member band. All but one were students in two local colleges and it was evident they loved the music they played. You could see all were having a great time while delivering sharp ensemble playing and decent solos.
Second was the surprising turn out. The event was on campus and I would guess attendance was maybe 5-600, with about 70% of the audience being students, at least those <25. To put that in context, enrollment at that school is only about 1,500. So that kind of turn out was wonderfully encouraging. And they didn't just show up. They were attentive, appreciative, and responsive to the music.
I left with a nice feeling inside.
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o-10, I'm a little surprised by your "rigid" response. Jazz is suppose to be a fluid expression and I assume that means the listener as well as the performer.
"Miles was Miles". Absolutely! Miles was always Miles, his own man, from everything I've read about him. But he continuously moved forward with his music. Not all of us followed him. I'm guilty of that too as I mostly appreciate what I suspect we commonly enjoy the most. But how can we say he was no longer Miles once he plugged in? I consider him a true individual who was true Miles right up to the end. The fact that you or I didn't follow or appreciate all that he produced doesn't matter. We are fortunate that we can select the particular era of Miles we love and revisit it as often as we like through our recordings.
But that is one of the pleasures of the history of an art form like jazz. It is enormously varied and we are free to pick what pleases us most as individuals. |
o10, I'm well aware nearly all the recent discussion has been on "Round Midnight" or adding lyrics to a jazz tune in general.
So I was reacting to your statement, "That is the most unforgettable picture and music I can think of; it was when Miles was "Miles", no buckskin fringed vests and stuff like that." My intent was to suggest that Miles was always Miles, not limited to a specific time, regardless of how it was performed.
Peace.
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o10, in the past you and I have aligned pretty well regarding specific music or performances, I don't know why we have such a disconnect here?
1. I picked up on your three offerings of "Speak Low" to relate my opinion that when lyrics accompany a song they suggest a tempo or feeling that is best expressed in any instrumental performance. Sonny's version was an example that was not appropriate so did not work well, again my opinion. But that can be true for any song once lyrics have been attached.
2. Somehow you jumped to the conclusion that I "will never be able to understand all the various aspects of the song "Speak Low" ". Just because I didn't agree with the tempo played by Sonny and that group? I thought it was my understand of the main aspect of that song that suggested it be performed in a subdued, slower fashion as a tender love song, a ballad even.
3. As I concluded earlier about tempo for ANY song with lyrics, I can understand if others don't find this meaningful. For me it is simply something I've always felt in judging a performance.
With that I'll end comment on the subject. |
rok, I tried to pay the taxman today too. But the system was f***ed up and e-payments didn't work. And all along I thought they wanted my money! ;^)
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Going back to pjw's clips with Red Rodney interviews, did you know when he toured the south with Parker's band he was called Albino Red? That was a role reversal so he could get into the restaurants and hotels with the band when it was still more segregated.
o10, thanks for those new musician/older music Mingus Big Band clips. Great stuff.
And frog, as I've said before, being a non-musician I greatly applaud your insights into performing jazz. With understanding comes greater appreciation.
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Here's a hot horn section. But please, disregard those suits! For those who know the music, it gives more appreciation to the original to hear all five are needed to replicate the one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cst9lV5PPgIf you think this is off topic, blame rok. He got me off track. ;^) |
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Interesting, similarly to "So What", "If I Were A Bell" was also played at a faster tempo than I remember hearing it. So was that just an obvious way that Miles never wanted to play anything the same way twice, or were they in a hurry to get through the performance? ;^)
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rok, I suspect we all appreciate that labels can be difficult.
I readily admit that the Swingle Singers are not jazz, not in the strict sense. Is "jazzy" a better term? So far as my limited musical knowledge takes me, they are singing Bach's score. But it is not only the tempo, rhythm section, and their choice of vocal blends; the contra punctual form of Bach's music matches the lines followed by instrumentalists in many jazz groups.
I've told this story before, although maybe not here. In college I got together Wednesday evenings with friends after studying to share recently acquired jazz recordings. One evening after an hour or so we were at a loss for what to listen to next. The guy who's apartment we were visiting put on one of the Brandenburg Concertos, I'm no longer sure which. Up to that point I'd had almost zero exposure to classical music, but I loved that! So I began buying recordings of Bach and other Baroque composers. Only later did my classical music tastes expand to other periods. So maybe that is why I might accept Bach in the jazz realm more easily than you.
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schubert, many years ago I helped friends select and install a new CD player in their system. They were both opera buffs and I wanted to pick up something for them to hear with their new player. At Tower (I said this was years ago) I found "Opera Goes To The Movies" on RCA. It was a compilation of their recordings of famous arias utilized in film soundtracks. I'm not much of an opera fan but after hearing that recording I went back and bought a copy for myself. One track is Bjorling singing "Nuesum Dorma". He actually sends a chill down my spine every time I hear it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPEG914GATk |
I assume there may be a list of key words which get flagged for review and possible deletion.
I can’t imagine anyone is monitoring all the posts on all Forum sites!
But that doesn’t explain posts that disappear but are not noted as being removed.
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frog, your attachment of the Brubeck interview quote vindicated me! ;^) Brubeck: Well, I love the Brandenburg Concertos, and I think they're so rhythmic, and so full of life, and so related in a way to jazz. Or, jazz is related to it
Now for Spike Jones, when I was maybe 7 or 8, I got his "Nutcracker Suite" album (78s) for Christmas. I thought it was great stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KrR3sZ3rGMschubert, how is it possible to trade UP anything for Kenny G? ;^) |
As usual I skip a few days and you folks move on so quickly. rok, the first couple of times I saw the cover for "Way Out West" I failed to look closely and didn't realize Rollins was wearing a suit in the photo. Good catch on the empty holster. Anyway, it reminded me of this, although I don't remember who first sang it, The Smothers Brothers? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wp513wdCHUMany candidates for the label of most creative in jazz; Satch, Ellington, Davis, etc. But for me creative means not only playing style but composing, and with both of those, finding different styles rather than always staying on the same path. With that I add my vote for Mingus. Regarding "Hair", I saw it in NYC in the late '60s. Pryor to that I dropped out of college and joined the Navy in '63. When I got out in '66 and returned to school the social changes were dramatic. Early years it was very short hair, Madras shirts, and chinos. Just 3 short years later it was long hair and beards, work shirts, jeans, and fatigue jackets. Nam was a catalyst in so many ways. And mary_jo, not necessarily connected with the theme - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhjOpm-KL-A |
Regarding Hamilton, his only album I have is "Passin' Thru" so I'm not an expert. But much of what I've heard verges on what Gunther Schuller labeled Third Stream Jazz. Check out two segments here, a brief one of rehearsal at 13:00 and a performance at 50:30. Of course I recommend the whole film for several wonderful performances - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCUk8kZ2FiU |
o10, re: West Coast Jazz About the time I developed a real appreciation for jazz (end of '50s, early '60s) there was an on-going debate about the merits of East vs West Coast Jazz. Unlike the military discussions here I was neutral and found enjoyment in both. ;^) As it happened, I had a discussion with a good friend this past week where he related visiting his brother long ago who lived in Hermosa Beach, CA at the time. Whenever he visited they would hit the Lighthouse. His favorite musician there was Bob Cooper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBvrm8KAilU |
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o10, I don’t agree that black and white films were necessarily forgettable. The list of great ones is long, beginning with one which many consider the best movie of all time -- "Citizen Kane". But I’m a movie buff as well as jazz aficionado. Back to the subject at hand, movie soundtracks, how about this B&W film example, scored and performed by Duke Ellington. For those not aware it was based on a true story and filmed on location in the UP of Michigan. So not West Coast. ;^) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cntm7j6R1G0&list=PLMD9X0rJLX6ayC62PJ_VsDdBfmCBSnnQk |
Regarding Anita, this was one of my early contributions to this site but I don't remember it generating much comment. Both songs here kill me! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcMmVGrzpy8o10, you simply said "Since the black and white movies were forgettable", I couldn't guess you intended only the B films. I just took you at your word. And my response to cheesecake was made for the title of the clip, nothing you said, so that was just FYI in fun. Regarding your 12/9 post with the two jazz soundtrack film lists, I missed it initially. I have some of those albums and a few of the DVDs. Interesting there is not that much overlap between the two lists, until the #1 at least. But bottom line, I fully agree that much great music, jazz and otherwise, comes from soundtracks. In fact one of my friends contends the best classical music currently written is found in film scores. |
Frog, while "cool jazz" has been an accepted term for some time, more recently I suspect it causes confusion. A new subdivision emerged some years ago, "smooth jazz", and I fear cool jazz gets mixed up with that by those only looking at the broad heading.
I don't care for smooth jazz, to me it sounds like what I hear in a doctor's office or even in an elevator. It's the "light beer" of the jazz world. It may fit the very general category, but has no substance.
So now that exposes two prejudices I do hold! ;^)
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O10, and others with a similar interest, you very likely know that Shelly Manne made several recordings with the same trio except it was identified as being led by Andre Previn. I’m not sure but possibly the label thought Previn was more broadly known so might sell more records? Anyway, the Previn Trio produced several very good albums. Playback is not that great here but the music shines through - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0m_ra7ypzMI had a good friend in San Diego who was a drummer strongly influenced by Manne, Jim Plank. Always very tasteful and supportive of the music without every "showing off". He was also a percussionist with the Symphony, but jazz was his real love. I use past tense only because he retired. |
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alex, I've wondered about deleted posts in general, regardless of how many within any given time. Is Big Brother reading all these and just eliminating any they don't like?
Recently I made a brief reply to a post which made reference to a male trombone player. Since it was in fact a female, I poked a little fun at that. Now both posts appear to have been deleted. What possibly was wrong with either one?
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o10, I don't consider the Messengers so much as a group, but more as Blakey's Jazz School. It may be that more top musicians came through that "school" than any other. So it is impossible for me to pick a single favorite. Interesting question though.
mary_ jo, I failed to "ace" your quiz, only scored 90%. So hope that doesn't disqualify me as an aficionado. I should have known better about Jim Crow.
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schubert, thanks for those. I believe I have family ties to Poland, although Ancestry shows Russia in some links. I suspect when my great-grandfather lived there (1800s) the boundary may have shifted with some regularity. And it does not even agree on the family name, I found four different spellings so far.
For me it takes more than a tree to put me in the spirit. My decades in SoCal were just not the same, although I was able to travel to be with family many years. Now I relocated and in fact it is snowing here tonight.
So, may everyone’s holiday season be merry, bright, and healthy. And may you find new jazz to enjoy -- this site certainly has helped me do that. ;^)
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Twice now within two days I've had posts deleted with no notice anything was removed. I wonder . . .
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mary_jo, I'll add my thanks for the Beth Hart introduction. I'd not heard of her. Even before reading any of the comments in that link I thought of Janis. I certainly would not consider her (either one of them, although I'm much more familiar with Joplin) "soft", for me "vulnerable" would be much more appropriate. Both ladies went through a lot and now I can only hope Beth is past all that.
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o10, from your story of riding the train to Detroit to hear Aretha I estimate that was around 1964. When visiting there did you ever go to the Minor Key?
I believe I mentioned it when I first began posting here. It was a great jazz club that was able to bring in top names. I heard Miles, Cannonball, Coltrane, Silver, Blakey and others there between 1960 and '62, after which I dropped out of school and went in to the Navy. The name had double meaning -- obviously in the musical sense, but also because they didn't have a liquor license minors could get in. Friends and I would drive nearly 2 hours to catch the first set around 9 PM. Without an age limit it was popular with undergraduate college students in and around Detroit. For that first set the audience would be maybe 50/50 black and white. The second set around 11 seldom had more than a 20% white audience. By the third set we were often the only whites there. It always impressed me that we never had any problems and seemed to be accepted by the other fans. In fact many times someone at the next table would offer to top off out set ups from their flasks -- as I said, no liquor license. Those nights were some of my greatest jazz experiences.
Unfortunately after getting out of the Navy and returning to finish school in '66, riots in Detroit the next year destroyed the club so I could never go back.
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pjw, realizing YOU didn't say Morello was best, only reported that he was a poll winner, I will say he is overall my favorite drummer. That's different than being "best". I don't have the musical knowledge to rank drummers. But there are several others I respect and enjoy. So why is Morello my favorite? Simply because he produced some of the most inventive and enjoyable solos I've heard. Many highly rated drummers (based on basic time keeping?) just don't hold my interest the way Morello could. I posted this before but offer it again as a great example of my point. Amazingly the liner notes reported he was suffering from the flu that night! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LBZJk5Kfgw |
pjw, Blakey certainly rates high on my list as well. I'd not heard that track before but it reminded me of this classic - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHKyVJ5YfNUo10, you had better judgement than I did. I've told this story before but don't remember if it was here or another site? Close to the end of his career Brubeck was scheduled to perform with our local symphony orchestra. A couple of audio buddies, knowing I liked Brubeck, as if I wanted to get tickets. Unfortunately I declined, thinking his age would prevent a good performance and I wanted to remember him as I'd heard him earlier. Well my friends did attend and raved about his performance, as did local media reviewers. My loss I missed one more chance to enjoy his artistry. :^( |
frog, this was a rare time where I see things differently than you do. I certainly agree about drummers, or any musician for that manner, "fitting" in with a group style-wise. But your "It is also an obvious generational thing." does not always hold up. Miles was only six years younger than Brubeck so close enough to be of the same generation, yet as you say, Hancock was a great fit with what Miles was playing at that time while Brubeck would not have worked nearly as well.
Without doing an inventory, I think Miles pretty much continued to choose sidemen from the same age range even as he grew older. Blakey did the same. But they were more the exception to your suggestion for same generation, probably most other leaders followed that.
Now I'll stand back while others list more examples where leaders went outside their own generation. ;^)
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And now for something completely different. A heavy drummer with a funk groove. Or was that a funky drummer with a heavy groove? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_SqtFerjghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_SqtFerjgFirst time I saw Cobham was in what I believe was in McLaughlin's Mahavishnu Orchestra first tour, maybe 1972. It was a small club and we had a table right in front of the band. The musical exchanges and energy that night were fantastic. Cobham was like a coiled spring who seemed to play harder and harder as the night wore on. One of my Top10 concert experiences ever. |
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slaw, that is a favorite of mine as well. I believe I mentioned it once here but may not have been the recommendation that encouraged you to get it. Great stuff. Unfortunately the link on YouTube is blocked.
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Thanks acman. I continue to be surprised by then number of "hot jazz" or "gypsy jazz" groups formed over the past 20 years or so. There was a long lull after Django's death but the Hot Club of France now seems to be well known and appreciated. My parents had an album by the HCoF so I knew their music at an early age. This was one of the first "revisions" I became aware of - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMxIwtGhahQ&list=PLa4T9NsDtq8zpxiUXwrtLbjirhwUqNXuC&index=7 |
alex, no big deal, just FYI. |
rok, a friend who has some Native American blood told me the typical movie Indian drum beat -- BOOM, boom, boom, boom was strictly Hollywood. The traditional beat represents a human heart beat.
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Interesting blending of classical and jazz, but not third stream. I heard this years ago live with Almeida and local bassist Bob Magnusson which I preferred to this version, but can’t find a link to a recording of that one. So - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkdBgKWnBY8 |
Never heard of the Jazz Video Guy. But with that self-proclaimed name he should know more about the music.
"Miles went electric in the '60s."! Well, yes in 1969 with "In A Silent Way". But that album didn't become so well know (I happen to really like it) but I thought electric Miles was attributed to "Bitches Brew" from 1970 and the albums that followed that?
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As usual, playing catch-up again. My excuse this time, I was traveling. O10, "I Only Have Eyes For You" remains one of my favorites from back in HS (the original). Not that long ago I heard Lester Bowie's version which knocked me out. Unfortunately I can't find his album link any longer so this lesser version will just have to fill in - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ney1VWrcywPretty sure I mentioned my enjoyment of War previously as well. Regarding "Kind of Blue", I use two measures in judging music. First, does it grab me and hold my interest all the way through? Second, do I continue to enjoy it with repeated listenings? I've been listening to "Kind of Blue" since 1959 (not every day mind you) and have not tired of it yet. I know little about the technicalities of music, many of you know more. And frog is way beyond that. But if the melodic line pleases me, the arrangement/instrumentation fits, and the performance is stimulating then I'm hooked. Well, with some the lyric line can be an added bonus, but in general I find it less likely to really enjoy vocal versions. |
