fluffers - Your post suggests that your DAC had been able to feed your amplifiers directly prior to adding the PreMate. Is that so?
The PreMate is normally sequenced as a preamp in the chain immediately prior to power amps - or by ’amps’ do you mean integrated amps? & does your external DAC have the facility to feed power amps directly?
I’m guessing by ’according to the DEQX manual’ you refer to the Full digital output as on p20. If not, then refer to the image on p12 of the manual & either arrangement below will work :
- Server digital output->external DAC-> PreMate via analogue RCA inputs or balanced XLR if available->power amps (I use a similar setup but with two DEQX units master-slave). The DEQX unit will still digitally process speaker correction, sub integration etc.
- Server digital output->PreMate digital input (using inbuilt DEQX DAC but your external DAC is unnecessary)-> power amps.
The way you describe things I would have expected a further preamp or integrated amps after the DAC, using an analogue output from the DAC - this arrangement will of course work but I would personally minimise extra equipment in the chain.
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I have emailed Alan Langford & Kim Ryrie at DEQX that the image on p24 is misleading & it would be better to say ’Integrated amplifiers’.
The illustration suggests a DAC that will have a variable volume output (?) to a power amp maybe taking a direct digital feed. As the DAC digital output is presumably a fixed volume then this arrangement wouldn’t work. If the connection between DAC & power amps is analogue then I don’t see the DEQX volume control/remote having any effect either.
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Good point Al, I think you must be correct (I was imagining a variable output digital signal might overload the inputs on an external DAC).
I use the digital pass-through from my HDP-5 to HDP-3 & of course it does control volume although all corrections & processing for the -3 in this case require a separate USB connection & a different .mzd file. Only one processor connected to the computer at a time of course!
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@steveo888 - your post implies that you have two sets of digital inputs connected to the Dave:
1. BNC from PreMate to Dave
2. USB from server to Dave
Please check if the Dave input is defaulting to USB rather than BNC. This could be the reason why there is no sound.
If that is not the case then check the PreMate settings as below:
- On your DEQX - set the speaker configuration mode to “Single amp with optional mono subwoofer"
- On the IO manager make sure that ’Output Selection’ is set at the default: “Analog/Digital.” which enables analogue to the subs & digital to the DAC.
Also, as a separate issue - if your sever is bypassing the DEQX unit & linked directly to the DAC, then no DEQX correction will be applied & the Subs will not be connected to music from the server either. The server should be connected to the PreMate via the USB-B socket on the rear. |
Strange, it’s possible that there is a fault with the Full Digital Output on the PreMate (I use it on my HDP-5, linking to a slave HDP-3 & have never had any issue).
On the Dave using the setup function, have you selected PCM rather than DSD (PCM is correct)? Also make sure it is not switched to DAC mode which disables volume control.
You could check that this DAC is working by connecting your server directly to its USB input, then connect one of its digital outputs to one of the appropriate digital inputs on the PreMate. The PreMate will then feed to amps & subs via analogue outputs. With this setup & the PreMate configured as "single amp with stereo subwoofers", everything should play & it will confirm that the Dave is working (but not necessarily its digital input).
As a final thought, I hope there isn’t some sort of conflict between the digital clocks in both units. |
Actually, you should have no issues if you use the PreMate to drive everything (once the mods are done).
A delay on low frequencies via the Chord DAC will not be an issue - just measure the subs at the listening position separately to the other channels & then delay mid/high by comparing impulse responses & subtracting the slowest (subs) from the fastest (others).
I used to have a Chord DAC64 which was very nice but sold it on a few years ago. Other than that I've not used their products (don't use the inbuilt DAC's on either of my DEQX processors either) |
After you add the mscaler/Dave, then measure the speakers & subs and use these impulse responses to set delay. DEQX will measure what it hears from the speakers, irrespective of what is in between it/them.
Because I don't have details of your specific speaker wiring your previous posts infer that there are two sets of cables to each speaker - one for mid/high and another for the 'subs' (ie woofers - your post says ...."in my case I will need "single amp with stereo subwoofer" as I have two subs - they're built into my speakers")
If you set P1 with the subs disabled, then bass frequencies may not be present as the cabling feeding the subs will not have a signal. It all depends on the frequency range of your speakers without the 'subs'. |
Yes, I have an active setup with 3-way Open Baffle speakers on the HDP-5 (4 x 15" bass, 2 x 8" mids, 2 x Ribbon tweeters) & two Subs (2 x12", 2 x 10") on the slave HDP-3. All running as a 5-way stereo setup, 12 drivers in total - crossovers, time & phase alignment handled by the DEQX processors.
Whatever you do with P1 & P3, you can have one configuration (assuming your calibration for the main speakers is full range) but disable the subs on P1. However, your comment about the speaker cables doing highs and mids & subs taking care of low frequencies suggests they may not be calibrated as full range so P1 would have no bass frequencies without the subs. Was your initial measurement of these speakers as full range with subs disabled?
If that’s the case then make sure that the speaker calibration you use for P1 is based on a full range speaker measurement, not just highs and mids. |
Yes...
P1 - configure as ’single amp with stereo subwoofers’ & use a (new) full range measurement & calibration without subs. Disable the subs in this config
P3 - configure as ’single amp with stereo subwoofer’ & use the calibration you already have. Enable subs in this config.
In my setup, bass goes down to 16hz -2dB which I’m happy with. You mention the screen - funnily enough I have it disabled, too much of a distraction when I’m listening in a darkened room.
If you go active, try Open Baffle because the transients they can produce give sense of realism I haven’t even experienced with horn speakers. At very high volume, drums ARE drums & it’s almost impossible to hear the difference between a well recorded acoustic guitar & the real thing.
DEQX measurements indoors can produce great results but done properly outside, the results really are in a different league. It is worth the effort.
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I agree with Alan, it gives the opportunity to place the subs in order to manage room nodes better than using just a pair of full range speakers.
However (I'm not at home to check this at the moment), I'm pretty sure you could not add as much as 1.5 seconds delay to the subs. I believe the max available is in milliseconds so this probably means you could not use them with music. |
No, the only increased gain I've set via the control panel is volume matching for two subs to main speakers on an HDP-3 slave processor.
The master HDP-5 has no gain adjustment - most listening is within the 'blue' light range on the front display, or 'pink' for higher volume, only occasionally needing 'white' when using a lower output cartridge on a turntable or if I want extreme volume levels. |
Hi steveo888, I hope you're having a good Christmas
I have only added DACs as source components upstream of DEQX & this has no impact on calibration so that would be unnecessary. I have an external DAC with various digital inputs & also analogue pass through (for a second turntable & SACD player) & this connects to my HDP-5 via the balanced XLR analogue inputs.
It's recommended to re-measure & re calibrate when components are added downstream of the processor. |
@yyzsantabarbara - Firstly I must remind you that my & any other replies here are likely to be rather biased towards DEQX - you might get more balanced responses elsewhere!
Having said that, the single feature that probably gives it an edge are the speaker measurement & correction algorithms which I don’t believe are available in any of the others mentioned above.
Lyngdorf 3400 TDAI
I’m not familiar with this - it handles room correction & crossovers & is Roon ready. This product does not appear to have speaker time-phase correction though.
Linn SELEKT
I’m very familiar with Linn Exakt which (as with Selekt) uses room dimension/material based ’space optimisation’ calculations. It can produce very good results although DEQX does have greater transparency, sharper imaging and a more realistic sense of the soundstage. Bass is also tighter and more defined via DEQX, no matter how much effort I put into improving this on the system I set up. Logic suggests to me that this results from actual measurement of the speakers being used (via DEQX) vs calculations (via Linn).
Linn Space Optimisation can get close to DEQX but the two systems I am comparing are ~$350k Linn vs ~$85k DEQX (which makes the latter somewhat of a bargain!) Calculations do not match the accuracy of a mic based processor & when we measured the Linn room separately using REW, some of the auto corrections were inaccurate by comparison - manual adjustment after using a mic improved things.
However one aspect that I prefer with Linn is the ability to set individual eq for each channel, as opposed to DEQXs combined eq approach.
Anthem ARC2
I have listened to a system using this processor & as with Lygdorf, it handles room correction & crossovers. Although ARC doesn’t work in the time domain (speaker time-phase correction), it does manage room correction better than Linn, especially if aesthetic considerations preclude acoustic treatment.
All of the above will be very good for room correction if that’s your main priority but if you are looking for measurement based speaker correction AND room eq then only the HDP-5 covers all bases (preamp, DAC, speaker correction, crossovers, sub integration, room eq, Roon). The clincher for me was the fact that the mic FIRST takes a clean measurement of the speaker, corrects each frequency for timing & phase across all drivers and THEN room eq is applied separately afterwards. As I said previously, this makes by far the most significant impact to the quality of music produced.
As far as room correction itself is concerned, my own opinion is that acoustic treatment is the most effective solution, backed up with eq to address only remaining bass peaks.
(...yyzsantabarbara your forum name implies where you live - we have family there & spend many months a year in town so if you do decide on any of the above I would be interested to listen)
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@steveo888 Yes I continue to use both analogue inputs to the HDP-5 via: turntable->RCA & external DAC*->XLR (*including analogue pass through for a second turntable & SACD player)
The inbuilt DAC is extremely good but I have a preference to something that sounds very close to vinyl without a slight sense of brightness or glare (which I’m afraid I hear when directly inputting a digital transport, streamer or server).
These processors work at 24/96 so an upsampled input would be handled in the same way as any pure analogue signal (or indeed any digital input up to 24/192). Personally I’m sceptical about how audible these ultra high bit rates really are & to me ’upsampling’ is artificially adding something in that isn’t really there in the source. Not meaning to criticise those who do hear a difference or wanting to get into a debate!
The real benefits derived from a DEQX processor come from the work it does AFTER it receives an incoming signal, hence in my case the best possible analogue source. |
Good advice from Todd.
I will also add, without meaning to be pushy or arrogant that I am an advanced user & have assisted a number of newcomers to get the best out of their DEQX units, answering questions by email, facetime or skype and reviewing/modifying .mzd files remotely. I am happy to do so for anyone that requires it - for free of course!. Likewise I am not affiliated, merely a very satisfied customer. |
Yes, I have been listening to vinyl since the 70s & the clarity/transparency of my system these days is outstanding, quite far removed from what was there before. Vinyl replay is simply outstanding.
If there is any form of artefact caused by DEQX conversion it is certainly undetectable compared to image smearing, timing or phase anomalies and other negative aspects of a traditional setup which have been removed. The difference is very noticeable and wholly positive.
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