How do you determine how much to spend on speakers

Here's a basic breakdown:

$400 for a Tuner. You NEED a tuner whether you think so or not. You WILL use it a lot more than you think you would. Look for a Magnum Dynalabs 101. These can be found for $3-400 if you look around. These are both sensitive and sound pretty good. Some cheaper yet worthy alternatives are the Musical Fidelity E-50, Sony 730 ES, Yamaha TX-950, etc... These can be found for $150 - $250 and will free up money for other things that you may consider more important. The MF is not as sensitive as the others but sounds warmer.

$500 for a DAC. I would suggest an EVS Millenium 1A if you can find one. These typically run about $4-500 used. These are 24/96 capable and sound far more musical than most SS pieces and is more accurate than the majority of tube units on the market. The best of both worlds for pennies on the dollar.

$5-600 for a Transport. You be the judge. If you want to play / watch DVD's also, then factor this into the equation. Personally, i would NOT use a DVD player as a transport except if you REALLY want "double duty" and are willing to sacrifice musicality. This statement includes units modified by "professional tweakers". I would suggest something along the lines of either a Parasound CBD-2000, CEC 5100, Theta Pearl, Theta Data Basic II, Rega Jupiter, etc... You could also resort to using a cd player as the transport only i.e. a Parasound CDP-2000, Pioneer Elite PD-65, Rega Planet, etc...

If you want to stick to a one box player, combine the prices of the DAC and Transport plus the additional amount that a digital cable would've cost you. A possible alternative is to pick up a Sony SACD player from Oade Brothers and have Ric from EVS modify it for you. This would put you in the same price range, reduce jitter and take up one rack space instead of two. It would also offer the benefit of being SACD capable should that format ever really take off.

$1250 for "backbone" components i.e. a preamp and amp or integrated amp. TONS of good used stuff on the market. Keep in mind that you can also consider a passive line section since you will be using only line level sources. While i prefer the versatility of seperates, you might prefer the "less clutter is better" approach and opt for an integrated. Another factor is SS vs Tube. A lot of personal choices to be made here.

$1250 for speakers. Since the tonal balance of the system will be dictated by your speaker & amplification choices, you would be wise to consider these two factors hand in hand. You also want to make sure that you have more than enough REAL power to meet your listening demands for the specific speakers that you choose. You also need to factor in the types of music that you primarily listen to, the volume levels required and the size of the room. Obviously, large speakers work better in larger rooms and smaller speakers in smaller rooms. Don't fool yourself either way.

$1000 for "incidentals". This includes a rack ($225), speaker cables ($225), interconnects ($225) and a PLC ($200 ). This leaves you with some money to put towards supplies to build some very simple yet highly effective DIY room treatments. For that info, see http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/index.htm
While you're there, i would look at some of his cable designs also. A couple of hundred dollars on DIY cables will go WAY, WAY further than spending the same amount retail.

You'll have ended up spending about the same amount of money for your major components ( CD, preamp/amp, speakers ). This approach takes into consideration that the system is only as strong as its' weakest link so try to use a bunch of links that are "equal". On top of that, you'll also have something that looks decent ( neat and orderly on a real audio rack ) without overlooking the importance that "accessories" like good quality cables and room treatment play in achieving good sound. Of course, you can fudge an amount in one category for another to suit your specific goals and desires. Hope this helps and gives you a basic idea of how to construct a balanced system. Sean
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Natalie, your dismissal of my advice, and the poo pooing of one of the top reviewers, could be considered premature, at best. Maybe do some checking first? Have fun and happy listening. Charlie

Hello Krazeeyk

I don't know what I can add to this list that hasn't already been said, however I have been into this hi-fi game since 1957 and I have made my share of mistakes, from which to learn, so here goes:

Firstly, use your ears and carefully pick the speakers, that you can happily live with. If you are not happy with your speakers, nothing else is going to give you 100% satisfaction.

Secondly, pick good electronics that interact well with your speakers (SS or tube) the choice is yours, as long as they match-up well together.

Thirdly, pick a good CD unit. I agree with several of the above comments, that at this time there are some very decent CD units available, for not a lot of money. This may change down the road (SACD and DVD-A) but it is easier to make this change than to change speakers.

Finally, as mentioned above, use your ears and pick a system that you like and above all enjoy the music.

Regards,
AEW

Kraz:
Well it only goes to show that there is more than one way to skin a cat. This line makes the Tower of Babel look moderately coherant. I'd throw my 2cents worth in but I am not sure I have that much to say. I'll give you 1cents worth.

What are your plans for the future? You say your budget at 5K is "modest" and that you are just "starting out". To me that suggests you may upgrade in the future. If you want to upgrade I suggest that you leave a place in your system to do so. Nothing worse than trying to upgrade a perfectly balanced system. You spend a lot of $$$ that way. If you're not certain listen to as many 5K systems as you can before you buy and ask yourself if you can live happily ever after with it.

I will suggest a system that is very nice and also upgradable. I fall on the buy the best speakers you can get side of the argument. I don't care if you buy them first or last (Natalie's argument), just buy them. The garbage in garbage out argument is true, but why do you ever need to put garbage in? And, speakers color sound more than any other component in my experience. (If you think cables make a difference just play with the caps to your tweeters, but that is another story.) I think the price for nice stuff on the source side is reasonable. In another recent post audiogonhead Chelillingworth raved about how well a NAD 370 (Integrated Amp @$550 that has won all sorts of acclaim across the big water) did when paired with his Physic Virgo 3's ($5,500). He was used to listening to them with Rogue Audio prior to the switch so he has ears. I have heard an Odyssey Stratos (used $900-1000) do the same thing.

A system a friend recently bought went something like this: North Creek Rhythm Revelator Signature Speakers ($2,800). You buy it as a kit but it is not rocket science and is a great education about what a speaker is about. (Worth it just for the experience.) The crossover is completely built you just pop it in. It includes 8 guage coils, Crescendo Caps and top of the line Scan Speak drivers hand matched to within .5db.(Have any idea what you need to spend on retail speakers to see that?). Power it with a NAD 370 integrated Amp (120W) ($600). Buy the best used cd you can find ($1000). Spend the rest on accessories.

This will sound fantastic and, at the same time you can rotate the NAD out when the time comes for next to no loss. If you put a nice tube source in there in a year or two, look out.

I'm absolutely certain that there is nobody here who will agree with the above but that is what makes this so interesting, and there are lots of great 5k systems out there.

Sincerely, I remain

Balance in all things. I think good technical stands can be taken as to which component has the most impact on a system and where the greatest amount of money should go. This just isn't my experience.

I feel balance and system compatability always show up in the overall sonic merit.

Most "things" that excel...be it a performer, and artist, a parent...person,..or a thing, a good auto, camera...etc..they always seem to excel because of balance.

So I would not put an excess of an audio budget into any one component..but begin with the end in mind.

Consider your room size, the type of music you listen to, the levels you listen too...and, how much you want to play the upgrade game over the next two to five... Then look at your system as a whole and make your choices.