Mapman, you says "Best to just enjoy things in private if people's responses are bothersome." This makes no sense. Nobody gives a damn what you have to say seeking to disrupt an amiable discussion of personal experiences with products. The correct statement is, "Best to stay out of discussions where you have nothing to contribute." Is is universally true about most things. |
Budburma, this gets to be more and more of an issue with HF Cables as the waveguides get bigger and heavier. I do have equipment in a rack with four shelves. Equipment on the first two levels is not much of a problem, but I do complicate the matter by wanting no cables having a contact with the floor. All of these waveguides sit on about three inch tall isolators. The component on the top shelf, an H-Cat P-12 X-10 line stage is very light and the pc waveguide has some support from a large 18kVA isolator. Some of the ic waveguides sit on the Star Sound Rhythm shelves on their rubber rings. The BMC MCCI phono stage on the third shelf is much like that on the top shelf. Since the SS shelves are powder coated and not conductive, I do have some cables in contact with them. When everything gets settled, I will no doubt have all cables in contact only with glazed ceramic isolators.
The only other solution that I know of is to have all components on the floor on platforms and all cables suspended on single isolators. I don't want to go there. |
I see many using tie wraps. Their dielectric strength is not high, especially if they are hot. I don't trust them. |
I am inclined to take Dave's advice, namely to put the waveguides on Star Sound Rhythm platforms with them on Audio Points. Yesterday I moved my H-Cat p-12 line stage from shelf 4 to shelf 1 on my Rhythm rack. I had always heard that the lowest shelf was best. It is absolutely correct! It is not subtle; it is dramatic.
I'm going to go to all two shelf Rhythms and going to put all waveguides on Audio points on the second shelf with the HFC waveguide power center on the bottom shelf. I must admit that I might find putting the waveguides on ceramic isolators might be more important. Unfortunately there are no ceramic cones like Audio Points or flat isolators that could go under the Cupeling cups of the Rhythm feet to keep static electric charges at bay while getting vibrations to earth. Reproducing music is such a pain in the ass. Were I to have a top .1% income of $6.5 million I would have a pop singer, a jazz group, and a symphonic orchestra available when I wanted to hear music. Of of course, I would need a well designed room to hear them properly. On my 60th birthday, my wife hired a small and good jazz group to play in our kitchen. It was great, but a kitchen is not a good location.
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Lak, I agree but also would urge you to try having only one support to keep the wires off the floor rather than two or more. I have demonstrated this at shows and in homes. I don't really know why but the music is more alive and vivid.
I picked this up from the owner of Rightway Audio many years ago. He even urged that all cables should have one ceramic contact; even those going from point to point only in the air. I found this worked also but to a lessor degree and it is often a pain to achieve |
Lak, do a Google search for ultrasonic record cleaners. I have the Ultrasonic V8 unit. It is somewhat cumbersome to use, but you can clean many records at the same time. Unfortunately, none of these vacuum off the records as they use air drying.
I would be very interested in research on ultrasonic damage to records. The V8 unit has more powerful vibrators.
Finally, I did an experiment yesterday. I had never tried a HFC power cord to my Nantais Lenco Reference turntable. I had an Exemplar Portal pc on it heretofore. After about 15 minutes I could hear improvement, but about three hours, the improvement was enormous. The bass was more profound and defined, the decay of notes and the ambience of the recording venue was vivid. I am anxious to hear whether there is further improvement today. Even were there none, the improvement yesterday was so dramatic that I will never go back. I am using a CT-1 Ultimate Reference. I had thought of going back to a simple CT-1 pc, but doubt I will even bother. |
Juliejoema, yes, i have noticed this also, but were you to move the HFCs much you might have to wait awhile to hear them as they were earlier. I left all of my HFCs unused for two months. Now three weeks since returning they are back. But every night they are ready to go in about ten minutes.
I would also add that I find it more than smoothness. Especially in live recordings, I am there. It is totally involving. I must say that I think the power cords are most important. I recently tried one on my Nantais/Lenco turntable. The Exemplar charged Portal pc had been quite good, but the HFC CT-1 UR pc just was a "wow", although expensive, improvement. |
A complete suite of HFC's new "Pro" line was demonstrated at the RMAF. These cables have 17 inch waveguides and Rick was offering a seminar on magnetics in audio.
I did not know the speakers or what they would have sounded like with the lesser HFC cables. |
Calloway, There are liabilities to being a reviewer, namely that one typically hears a full loom. I am finally drawing the line with the Pros. Fortunately, Rick had nothing available to compare with the Pros. |
Ddraudt, what is wrong with "realism?" I now am hearing with largely the same equipment as you, what I never thought would be possible. I cannot really say that I feel like I am at the recording event, but rather it is like I where the mikes are. |
Calvinj, My first Pro pc went from the wall to the HFC Waveguide power center. This allowed a quieter background and thus more detail. My second one was from the HFC power center to the H-Cat amp. It resulted in a more involving image, more ambience, more human noises, and more defined and accurate instrument sound. With this amp, everything just sounds so right.
I hesitate to invite you down now as I am limited to vinyl sources. |
Calvinj, I am told that my AMS servers is soon to be shipped. But we will be out-of-town for Thanksgiving and January is an entire waste. |
Calvinj, I am often in Dallas/FW but at the airport. It is about four hours away. I would love to hear your system, perhaps I will need to go by Rick's and can combine that with dropping by. |
Mapman, since there are hundreds of magnets in the top lines, I doubt, even were your post to be sincere, if you will ever see any field coils. |
Ddraudt, Rick tells me that the new CT-1 UR H cables are intended for linestages, phono, and other source. I probably will never hear a system with all Pro pcs, other than by visiting Rick's systems, but I have Pros on my H-Cat amp and on my HFC Waveguide power center. Even my Nantais Reference tt has a CT-1 UR H on it which believe it or not made a substantial difference. I won't try here to articulate what I heard.
Perhaps the Pros would be better, but what I heard with the CT-1 UR Helix made me decide to try to afford two more. I make no excuse for having more in my cables than in my other components, especially as I'm selling my Koda K-10. |
Mapman, since there are hundreds of magnets in the top lines, I doubt, even were your post to be sincere, if you will ever see any field coils.
The purpose of the HFC design is to get rid of the magnetic fields. Electromagnets, however, use magnetic fields to attract ferrous metals. So each is adverse to the other. |
Mapman, There is a frequent argument here and on other forums that consists of some claiming that the "laws of physics" prove that something is impossible versus those that argue man's "laws of physic" are useful for engineers to make use of in designing things, such as bridges and electrical circuits, but certainly do not totally determine what happens. We don't know everything about how things behave. Robert Maicks above takes the middle route namely, validly run tests by competent people. I support that, if and only if, the measures validly assess the quality you seek, in this case sounding good. So in reality what we hear is the only real measure.
Badman is always lecturing about THD as though that were a valid measure. I think most of us put that measure to rest as invalid long ago. He thinks he is challenging those who tout the HFC cables, but many of us dismiss his challenge as invalid on its base. Badman has no basis as a critic and many reject his "laws of physics" basis.
I'm not going away, I'm just going to ignore him and wish that he were not disrupting what had been a constructive thread. |
Mapman, Obviously, everyone knows the conductivity of nickel is lower than silver and copper, but perhaps other things have more importance, such as the noise on the ac wires that get into your power supplies, or whether "magnetic conduction" is just different. Electrical engineering uses variables that are not perfectly related. They work good enough to make circuits work. |
Sammons, I have what I call the Waveguide power center, but maybe Rick has changed the name. I had no other HFC pcs in my system when I got one URR pc. In Rick's presence, I put it on the Waveguide. It was impressive. We went out for lunch and returned about an hour later.
I must say that I was prepared for what I heard, immediately on hearing music after only about an hour of breakin. The sound stage and realism were just strikingly improved. So I would strongly suggest you put the URR from the wall to the Waveguide and the lesser pcs elsewhere. But I should also say that I heard the impact of an additional URR on David's system already with a URR on the Waveguide. On hearing the improvement, I said, "Shit!" I knew that hearing that meant I had to buy another URR.
Where would I put a second URR? I am tempted to say "anywhere," but I think you should experiment. |
Jmcgrogan2, I first heard a HFC CT-1 cable before the 2013 CES and was immediately conscious of something unique about it-there was startling high end extension and effortlessness. But then I heard the CT-1 Enhanced. This cable had no breakin on it and took about four days to rival the broken in CT-1. But it was clearly better in the bass and midrange. Finally, I got to hear a full loom of the CT-1 E. I was very happy with the sound.
Of course as Rick Schultz further explored the benefits of "magnetic conduction," he issues the CT-1 Ultimates and then the CT-1 Ultimate References. I must say that each was a major improvement but at quite high cost. Since having bitten the bullet, I have had no regrets, but with the aid of Tripoint's Troy Signature and grounding Thor SE grounding cables, have reached levels of music reproduction that I thought would never be reached. In the 1970s with Infinity ServoStaics and ARC SP3 and Dual 75 and 51 amp, I thought I was 90% of the way toward realism in reproducing recorded music. Were this the case, I am now 575% of the way toward realism! And I know that when I take the HFCs out and replace them with a broad range of other cables with several even more expensive, I can get good music, but none of the sense of "being there." This is also true of when I detach the Tripoint grounding.
I have about the same amount invested in cables and grounding as I have in all other components and having the time of my audio life. |
This is getting so critical. Last evening I was listening to vinyl, in particular to Lena Horne's Watch What Happens and I had done what I do to each LP, namely use a brush to sweep it clean and the Walker Audio magnet to remove static, on the previous side thanks to laziness I had only sweep it. On the second side she sounded older and had less ambience.
After listening to it, I went back to the first side and sweep it and used the magnet, she sounded older and there was less ambience. I think not using the magnet is more real. I must say that with or without treatment with the magnet was among the very best I had ever heard. Of course, today I have to findout whether I hear this on other LPs, But I have my new AMS music server here and want to install it.
Use or don't use the magnet!!! Wow, thanks HFC, Star Sound Tech, Tripoint, H-Cat for forcing me to this. It has always been my goal, but I thought it would be easier to achieve. Now having heard quad DSD recordings, I know that digital also can be taken to new extremes for realism. I will have many DSD recordings to choose from, but Watch What Happening will not be among them. Nor may be many other masters, such as Thelonious Monk, etc. |
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Lak, I haven't tested magnet-based adapters on non HFC wires but my experience with the less expensive CT-1 pc versus the U R H would suggest that more magnets is always better.
I'm going to try them on my Enhanced phono cables, however. |
Audioguy003, You might also go to the webpage and compare the present cable alignments in pictures. I must admit that I understood everything from the first CT-1 through the Ultimate Reference ics but in the pictures, I don't see much other than printing on the waveguides that can identify them. I must admit, however, that the third RCA jack does perplex me. |
Rlawry, I got a new music server and have had some problems, but now have it working. In our efforts to find out what the problem is, I just put old black heavy duty power cords on the dac and the server.
I sounded very good but a little edgy. Yesterday, I put two new HFC CT-1 UR Helix pcs on. I sat back in disbelief. Once again I got the total silence between the notes, amazing detail in the sound stage, defined bass, a sweet top end, and utter transparency. Yes the new power cords are nearly four times the price of the server, but together they give a sound that far surpasses even the best sound I have ever heard live even in great halls, because I am hearing the sound where the mikes are rather than back thirty rows.
I should say that my patient wife just shakes her head at all these HFC pieces all on isolators. It kind of looks like a prototype of a warp drive. |
Mapman, yes the cornfield in "If you build it, they will come." |
I now have gone through four levels of High Fidelity Cables ics and speaker wires- CT-1 standards, Enhanced, Ultimate, Ultimate Reference, Enhanced phono cables, and multiple levels of their power cords. I still remember my shock with the first pair of HFC CT-1 ics installed. They strikingly different sounding from any of the perhaps fifty different ics I've owned or heard, but I also remember that the Enhanced ics after three days were clearly superior.
With ics, speaker wires, pcs, etc. each level was clearly superior, had more magnets and, of course, was more expensive. But I must say that IMHO all were worth the cost increase and was told that they each had many more magnets. I once asked Rick was there ever enough magnets and declining benefits from adding more. He said only that cost might be the limiting factor.
I have only heard the Pro line with two Pro series power cords. I also heard the entire Pro series at the RMAF. But I have reached my limits. I already have more invested in cables than in everything else and have no regrets. There is no going back for me! |
Guys, I have a small fortune invested in my HFC cabling and ac connections. I regret none of these expenditures although cabling is now over 60% of the cost of my system. I have tried both the MC 0.5 and the digital adapters and both further improve my sound. Recently in talking with Rick, I asked if one reaches a point where further improvement was smaller and smaller. Once again as with his six grades of cables, he said more magnets are better and only the impracticalness of the long waveguides and costs are the limitations. I didn't want to hear that, of course, but it seems true.
I don't really know whether there is a standard for judging the quality of ones ac supply, but I suspect that most of them have much noise running along with the 60 cycle ac and fall outside the 117 volt optimal voltage. At any rate I still think the power cables from HFC have more impact than the ICs and speaker wires.
Only three things rival the impact of the HFCabling in my system. In no particular ordering they are: the Star Sound Audio Points and Rhythm platforms, the TriPoint Troy SIgnature and Thor SE grounding wires, and recently the North American Products x-10 MkIII amp and probably their preamp.
I've got to stop writing always sincere but rave reviews. Today I am hoping to try the new Star Sound Tech 2.5 inch Audio Points versus some 3 inch points I have and the Star Sound original 1.5 inch Audio Points that they have sold over 300,000 of. |
On the ten amp limit. If your plugs to the unit get hot, be concerned. Otherwise, forget it. |
68pete, I am glad that you mentioned the breakin on the MC-6. I found that initially it sounded better than the next day. Being one Dave's "crazy" friends I now have eleven MC-0.5s and seven of them in the MC-6. I am still finding good and bad days. But the demonstration I heard with MC-0.5 installed one at a time and in remote areas and then closer to my system. Each drew out more detail, more precise location of performers relative to each other and as you mention more defined and deep.
We often talk about a holographic image. Well that is what you get, save that it is too real to be a holograph. They are selling like hot cakes. |
Guys, I have been spending most of my time doing a HFC Pro review. I agree with what has been said about recovery of the system after no use. I should note that I find it very difficult to compare HFC cables with other cables as the effect of system magnetic influence lasts a while making me taking a long time to undo its influence. Then when I put the HFCs in it takes a while to recover.
One thing that I might add about MC-0.5s-they don't like vibrations! I have tried an old Syn. Res. power strip and thought to use Star Audio Points and got a great improvement. Similarly, putting them under a HFC MC-6 with six MC-0.5s plugged into it on the Audio Points and again got a big improvement.
I have also noticed that putting a single MC-0.5 on a dedicated circuit with only my turntable putted into it. I heard a benefit? This is only an electric motor on the turntable!!
Finally, one warning. Don't listen to the HFC Pros if they are beyond your financial reach. |
ddraudt, I like the image you paint. To continue the car analogy, magnets are like horse power as more greatly increase speed. I know each successive cable series had more magnets. I asked Rick whether there would be enough. He didn't think so. To once again use the horsepower analogy, I think the cost of the car would define the limit of new series. Many cannot afford a Lamborghini.
I have been using the HFC Enhanced phono cables for many years and hopefully will heard the HFC Ultimate Reference Helix phonos soon. |
Ozzy, I now have eleven MC 0.5s. While I have two dedicated lines to my listening room speaker wall, everything except my turntable is plugged into right dedicated wall plug. I have a HFC MC-6 with six MC 0.5 plugged into it and a CT-1 pc to the wall plug where the HFC Pro pc leads to the HFC Wave Guide Power Center has three 0.5s and the pcs to the components. I think can see why I have everything plugged into one outlet. Well over 50% of the cost of my system is in cabling.
I also should note that I found having Star Sound Audio Points under the MC-6 with the six 0.5s in it had a very nice improvement in the sound. Apparently MC-0.5s don't like to vibrated.
Heaven knows how many MC-0.5s it would take to get no further improvement. I wondered what length of wave guides with more magnets would be the peak of ic, pc, and speaker wire improvement. I thought it would be at the Ultimate Reference Helix line, but learned better when I heard the Pros. |
Ozzy, as so often happens to me on AudioGon, I lost what I had written, so I will jump to the case. I tried several power strips that would allow me to plug directly into the wall plug. The HFC MC-6 proved better than a SR Quantum Line Source that is Tesla Coil treated. But putting Star Sound Audio Points under both really improved the sound but more so the MC-6.
There are just too many remaining questions about the MC 0.5s to go. Is there any limit how many will improve the sound. I know Rick took 17 to the Chicago show. I guess I could use my two SR QLSs to add 15 more. Not any time soon, however. |
calvinj. thanks for your interest. All that I really have to add at this point is that I think Rick is right about 200 hours of breakin. I have change nothing in the last month other than going to URH phono cables. But I am struck that the realism is ever improving.
This is sad for me as soon we are off to New Mexico's mountains and cool weather and I am not going to have sound for two months!
We are selling the house out there so I am going to use the available space on return to bring home my LSA1Statement speakers, racks, Zilplex room treatment, etc. as well as our cooking utensils, clothing etc.
More in September. Have fun guys. |
I think there is use for loom and will continue to use it. I have always found that using the same manufacturer's signal and speaker wire. This is especially the case with the HFCables |
benjie, okay that is too far to go! Double magnetic adapters!!! Were I to try this, and yes I have room, I would have to supply support for both cables. Also I have to use special all copper RCA to XLR adapters into my BMC MCCI phono stage and these fall out too easily. But I think I will try it and fully expect to hear what you say.
I understand that Rick would like to get more powerful Magnetic Adapters. They cannot be any wider and still fit into normally separated jacks, so longer seems most likely. So it sounds like you have beat him to it.
rlawry, I have the UR Din to RCAs on my turntable also. I went directly from Enhanced to these and was shocked by the improvement. I suspect that were Rick to make a Din with magnets in it, which is getting magnets dangerously close to the cartridge, we would hear an improvement. But Dins are just too damn small! Also I have had problems with the Din falling out but my new one on the URs has been fine. |
