HELP Electrocompaniet stole Christmas

I've read all the posts so far and I want to wish you well Ernie. I can't believe the extreme poor judgement by Alan, the U.S Distributor of EC, not once but twice. This is no way a person is to be treated. I applaud F S Audio in their efforts to help. Business'/companies which offer superior customer service will prosper and grow while others will not be so lucky. Thank-you Sos for your post, I never realized some of the things you said. I hope things will work out for the best, both in this matter as well as your health.

Sean: Re your compliment to Jctubes about his response to Sos' post, I think I could say the same thing to you about your response as compared to mine! Sometimes, direct is better than polite. And yes, we are saying the same thing. :-)

Ernie, although it is clear that F&S are trying to bend over backward to save you some pain in this matter (even if the two of you cannot ultimately reach an agreement that works), I still think you need to get EC involved and aware of your situation and position regarding this issue. I believe that the only entirely satisfactory solution (your inconvenience so far notwithstanding) is for you to have the upgrade mod performed at the normal price with the factory's blessing, without addtional shipping charges, whether this be done by the distributor or by some qualified and approved technician or dealer closer to your location. IMO, you may have let Mr. Warshaw off the hook too easily on Xmas day, but you've really got to stand up for yourself with EC now, even if it means alerting them to the presence of this thread (and even if it means saying thanks but no thanks to the honorable F&S). You'll be striking a blow not only for yourself, but also for any of those members for whom your previous posts about this player may have been an influence to purchase one. In particular (and if true), EC's supposed position that an apparently unreachable and ethically questionable Danish dealer must forevermore be responsible for any and all service - including paid upgrades, and to any and all subsequent owners - for these alleged gray-market units world-wide is totally untenable and outrageous, not to mention without justification and just plain bad business.

JCBtubes very insightful response. The story that I am told by Alan is a little different but that is not the heart of the matter anyway. I have no idea what actually took place and I will be the first to state that I would have handled it differently whether it went down the way described by Ernie or Alan.

The issue is what do you do with "grey market products" and still protect the integrity of a product lines value and dealer network.

We are talking about EMC 1 players that retailed at the time for $5000 and were sold between $3000 and $3400. Doesn't anyone believe that is destructive to a product line? Is it fair to the dealers who have stock in inventory, is it fair to the distributor that has spent years developing a line, but most important is it fair to the majority of the customers in this country who paid anywhere from $4250 to $5000 for their CD players.

The issue is not so much protecting the used market because the people who purchase a product that cheaply will dump it for less than the person who paid $5000. The used market is already damaged but more important an artificial price on the new units is established which could hurt the dealers who are responsible for taking care of their customers, and the distributor who does the warranty work not only for the original buyer but the future buyers.

I agree that it would be nice to find a solution that is more inclusive than exclusive. But what is to keep rogue dealers in Europe from selling to friends in the states brand new units that they turn around and market on the internet?

Ernie is the first one to complain on Audiogon but I have had several customers who purchased these units before I even knew about them and they have had problems. I have tried to intercede and help them but the issue comes down to what do you do? What is fair?

Yes, there is profit in doing the $800 upgrade but Alan in doing the upgrade felt that he was betraying his dealer network. We were told not to take the units in on trade, not to work on them or be involved in anyway. How could he demand that of us and then go against what he had instructed us to do?

F & S is a great dealer and a friend but in the final analysis I would be glad to hear a solution to resolve the issue for the 10 units on the market because this will not stop here - - someday those units without a warranty will be resold and what happens to those buyers?

The easy solution is since the pool of Electrocompaniet products has been corrupted just give a warranty to the initial owner only which is becoming more common everyday.

I hope to never see that happen but more and more companies are going to that and one reason is to limit used sales and to fight products that are grey market.

I am impressed with all the responses even the ones that slammed me. And I must admit that at first I was not going to respond but I had so many customers contact me and request that I respond in some way even though this really has nothing to do with me except for the fact that I carry the product and love it, consider Alan a good friend who has always been wonderful to me and my customers and has always responded in every situation.

The only times that we have disagreed has had to do with what to do with the "grey market units." Not as far as upgrades but performance and warranty issues.

Since so many of you have responded I am curious please use your imagination and imagine that you are responsible for a product line in this country. "Grey market" units are being introduced into the US how do you protect your dealers, customers, and your own interest?

I know many of you seem to have trouble with the fact that it is an upgrade we are discussing but the upgrade was created in the US and that is one thing that Europe did not have available till just recently only the US market. So the upgrade has significance since that is something that no "grey market unit" could have nor does have!

So in the final analysis what is fair. If someone purchased a "grey market unit" offer them the difference between the new retail price of $5500 which includes the latest upgrade versus what they purchased the "grey market" unit at minus a 15% discount which is about what they discount at? So $4675 minus the $3000 they paid so they get the upgrade plus the full warranty for $1675. Then there are no units without warranties?

Be creative I have no control over what happens but I can bring this up to Alan at CES. I mean whatever happens if people are looking for what is right should be win win for everyone.

When I state everyone here I am referring to those customers who purchased the "grey market units", Alan who has invested years to Electrocompaniet and done wonders with the line, the hundreds of Electrocompaniet customers, and the US dealer network.

I appreciate Stewart's position and count him as one of the few really good dealers around. I have purchased from him in the past and would again, but I think Sean said it all. This is an upgrade. It is an aditional product so the worst thing that could happen for Alan would be that he makes a few hundred bucks for performing the upgrade. Instead, he has created a self inflicted wound which continues to get worse. Alan has his principals, his pride, and now, probably a lot fewer sales.

I still think that Father and Son should have alerted Ernie about what could happen in this situation. They should have said that they would be happy to help him but realize that if your unit is a grey market item that it is possible that you will not be able to have it done. It seems they were just trying to help but also to make a quick few dollars. I do not think that 1000 will be the price of a swap. It will be closer to the price of what he offered the DAC to you for or even more. Good luck!