HELP Electrocompaniet stole Christmas

With all due respect Brulee, I think this is one topic that Stewart or any other Electro dealer would want to avoid. It is the position of the Electro importer that is of concern, and quite possible that no dealer is going to sway the importers decision. As FS Audio stated correctly, they were unfortunately caught in the middle. I doubt that any dealer(s) would want to try to defend Alan's policy, let alone his actions in this particular situation, and risk the ire of the audio public, or publicly conflict with Alan's policy and risk his potential anger. It is no mean feat for a dealer to develope a positive product line image and recognition. It isn't really fair to ask a dealer to risk a poor relationship with the importer at this point. It would be best if EC and the importer were to develope a cogent policy to include situations like this (and it will happen again given the current dogmatic approach that the importer has adopted), rather than ask a dealer to "fall on his sword," so to speak. Then again, I've certainly been wrong in the past, and this could simply be another instance. Ciao.

Jcbtubes, once again you have made a valid point. I didn't mean to put anyone on the spot. Thanks for your input and not putting the hammer to my head. Though i know it was hard for you to resist. I am still hearing those voices. Need some more of help. At least i am not seeing what you say isn't there. i thank you for correcting me in one of your more gentle ways. What's the matter, ya getting soft in your old age?

Since it seems that many people want me to respond to this issue I will but only as an overview of what has been stated to date. I have not been able to reach Alan to get his reasons although some are obvious and I feel that I have no right to speak for Alan without us discussing the issue.

Before going into this delicate issue I do hope that everyone had a great holiday season and that 2003 is wonderful for us all.

I am a little surprised by some of the comments, "I was thinking of a dac but I have taken them off my lists",
"I know not to purchase a Electrocompaniet product", how is it that a company can be so easily dismissed for one minor issue. We are talking about an upgrade here not a unit that is not working.

Some points I would like to make in the very beginning. Alan Warshaw has always proven to be a wonderful distributor and has always gone out of his way for customers in my dealings with him over the last 4 years.

I cannot recall of a single customer that he has ever refused to help except for those with the "grey market units."

One other point that I would like to make is that many distributors and manufactures rather not deal with the public and that is why they are not dealers. Everyone does not excel at interpersonal relationships.

Now there have been some things stated on these posts that are absolutely ludicrous so let me deal with those first of all.

Someone mentioned that if you purchased a Mercedes "grey market" that you would still have a warranty that is absolutely not true. The term "grey market" came about because of the practice years ago of high end European luxury cars coming into the states and not a one of those had a warranty and many dealerships would not touch them. But you know what they were alot cheaper! Any time you circumvent the system you initially pay less you just lose it on the back end if you resell the item.

It was mentioned that Electrocompaniet is Mid Fi gear. I would highly recommend that you listen to some of their latest offerings and compare it to any gear at any price point. The EMC CD player is as good as anything out there
and the DAC, Integrated amp and AW 220 amps are stunning.

I continually hear that the distributors over charge for products in the US. I have looked into the issue because there are a couple of lines that I love without US distribution at this time and I have considered importing the lines. When you look at all the costs involved no one is getting rich distributing audio products in this country. Also it works both ways US products in Europe and Asia are alot more money. The Exchange rate dictates what your profit margin will be week to week. The distributor normally pays for the warranty work the manufacture supplies the parts. So there are added costs besides shipping, duties, storage etc. Almost all products go through distributors that is just the way business is done.
A global economy does not mean that you find a back door to purchase a product and then expect that the distributor has a responsibility to you.

Many of you state that Alan at Electrocompaniet has a duty to take care of the customer regardless of the situation and that is being very short sighted. If a distributors costs get too high normally the first thing that goes is the warranties. Look how many companies in audio do not offer warranties to the second owner. Many are US manufactures that do not even go through a distributor network. Alan does honor the transferring of Electrocompaniet warranties to the second and third owners tell me how does he benefit from that?

This has all come about because there has been someone in the US who has purchased EMC's and Audio Aero's and resold them in this country for a significant discount on Audiogon.
Many customers purchased them. Some had problems which I find amazing since I have never experienced problems with the players. Somehow Electrocompaniet got a lists of the players of the Danish dealer that broke protocol and sold them to a consumer in New York who resold them. These units from my understanding are not to be covered by anyone but the Danish dealer at his expense. (That maybe why no one can contact him) I placed a posting months ago warning those of you on Audiogon - - that was about all that one could do.

I just talked to Alan and when he talked to the customer he tells me that he was not given a serial number. Upon realizing that it was one of the banished units he refused to do the upgrade. I find it unfortunate for the customer but Hopefully this can be a learning experience for everyone that when purchasing used audio gear it never hurts to get the serial number and check before you purchase.

Let me reverse the situation a minute and lets say that Ernie purchased a corvette and it came with a 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. The vehicle is purchased used and at 33,000 miles it needs some warranty work and the customer calls a dealership and makes an appointment. Upon arriving at the dealership they find that the car was last serviced at 48,000 miles and the speedo had been rolled back by the previous owner. The dealership refuses to cover or even work on the vehicle as does GM are they in the wrong? Is it the fault of the dealership, GM, or the fraudulant previous owner.

To most of us including me audio is a hobby. But it is also a business first and foremost to many and all business decisions are not always popular.

I just ask each of you who have responded to this post to put yourself in Alan's shoes. You make your living importing a product this is how you exist. You have a huge investment in product that you have purchased, in years of getting dealers to believe in Electrocompaniet, in consumers who depend on you to service and repair the product. Now there is an invasion of a renegade European dealer that could destroy all that you have spent years to build. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? If you take care of one "grey market" unit you give validity to the future forces that could overwhelm you.

Someone mentioned that Electrocompaniet should get a new distributor. Why for protecting what he has worked years to build? Also for those of you that do not know this when a distributor goes away and a new one comes in all the product previously sold no longer has a warranty in this country because the new distributor is not going to cover the expense of repairs. He has no obligations to the past in which he was not involved.

I know that on the surface Ernie's upgrade seems a simple OOPs how cruel and heartless by the distributor but there are many issues involved.

And I will repeat we are not talking about a player that is defective or not working. But about one that the customer wants upgraded.

I know one of the things that makes Ernie's situation more appealing is that he drove to Alan and brought him the unit.
In my opinion the only mistake Alan made was not opening the unit then and there seeing what it was and returning the unit. But I must admit I never open units when they are first brought over because you do not expect them to be "grey market."

As to my taking care of Ernie I cannot because the only person doing this upgrade is the distributor. Furthermore I would not go against Alan on this I do not have the right.

But there are alot of other CD upgrades available aftermarket.

All I have to say is this is an upgrade.

The dealer is really, really, REALLY stupid for not perfoming the work because his profit margin has to be amazingly high. I know this because I have friends in Scandanavia and EMC gear is consistantly 50% to 70% of what it costs retail in the US.

Electro really needs a way to remedy this disparity in price. Electro (and Electro distributors) should punish dealers that sell grey market and NOT customers.

Electro and it's distributors should realize that it is not the distributors or dealers that keep them in business, but it is ultimately the customers that do.

You piss off one customer and have the possibility of the effect snow balling. And boy is this one snow balling!

I do agree, however, that Alan was well within his rights to not perform the upgrade. Heck, up until not too many years ago, many retail stores (of all types) did not allow returns on merchandise. And it is well within the rights of stores not to allow returns. HOWEVER, very few retail stores today do not have return policy (at least for cash). Heck Costco, a superstore warehouse, will let you return things INDEFINITELY if you have the receipt for any reason at all. These return policies GET CUSTOMER BUSINESS.

The ELectro's distributor's policy stinks (though it is in his legal rights), so WE DO NOT HAVE TO BUY ELECTRO GEAR.

Pardon me Sos, but here are my thoughts about Electro gear:
1 - It is way overpriced in the US.
2 - Their equipment is middle of the road in hi-end audio at best.
3 - If you think the newest Electro CDP is any good at all for $5500 or so, please try the Ayre CX-7 or GamuT CDP or Musical Fidelty CDP (both sell for $3k in the US new). You will wonder why the Electro costs so much.
4 - Electro amps are powerful, but dark. There are many other amps that are LOTS HIGHER SOUND QUALITY. The list goes on and on.... starting with Ayre, GamuT, Monarchy, Audio Research, McCormick, Bel Canto... too many amp brands to list.
5 - Electro preamps are a joke. Just ask someone who has lived with one a while.

In the Hifi world there are so many choices of electronics. Dealers and distributors need to be almost extra sensative to customers needs. ESPECIALLY WHEN A CUSTOMER WILL PAY GOOD MONEY ($800) TO DO AN UPGRADE THAT I IMAGINE HAS A PART AND LABOR COST OF MAYBE $300 to $400 MAX.

But hey, it is the Distributors perogative.

It is our perogative to buy or not buy Electro gear.

KF

Sos, many of your points are well-taken. But I still contend that:

A) The distributor in this case was responsible for agreeing to the initial criteria - laid down by him - under which the customer was to bring his unit in for upgrading, and he should have followed through on that agreement as did Ernie.

B) It is ultimately EC's problem about the gray-market goods. The manufacturer and distributor must find a way to accomodate US customers who wound up with these units unknowingly, without making them into the fall guys. Remember, we aren't talking about warranty service here, but a paid upgrade. EC was never out anything for those units, and they and Mr. Warshaw are going about protecting his distributor's franchise in the wrong manner, IMO. Penalizing the Danish dealer is one thing, but penalizing US market second-hand owners is unconscionable, and I think the members' displeasure on display above is understandable.