FWIW I spent some time with the 791/761 combo at a dealer and my impression was similar to @yyzsantabarbara - 761 is stellar, 791 is very good but the DAC is a limiting factor. When I first heard the system I thought it was very good, but something was a little off and I suspected it was the DAC in the 791 - it had the slight forwardness, sibilance and uneven tonality that have bothered me in the past with 90% of DACs using ESS Sabre chips. Sure enough, switching to a DCS Lina with the external clock greatly improved things and I could really hear what the 761 was capable of. Given that the 791 preamp section was still being used with the DCS, obviously it is also excellent and the internal DAC is really the weak link. Obviously the Lina alone costs almost as much as the 791, and much more with the clock, so it's not a fair comparison at all. But it might be nice if you could get the 791 for a bit less money without the DAC.
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I have the 891/861 combination, and the sound is completely amazing and cannot imagine a better sound from either the DAC/streamer using Roon (particularly with Roon through the MIND streamer which to my ears is more detailed than using a high-end USB cable into the 891’s USB input which is also excellent sound) or through my Rega Planar 10/Aphetta 3 combination through the Moon 810LP inputted into the 891. I have not tried the 891’s internal phono stage. The 891 DAC/streamer is upgraded from the one in the 791. There is a certain natural flow and detail to the music that is amazing and very lifelike and three dimensional, with excellent detail and bass, yet smooth, and makes one want to listen for hours. The pair retail for $47,000, and I think they are an excellent value relative to the cost of other high-end amp/streamer/DAC/pre-amp/phone pre-amp combinations where one could easily spend $100k or more. It is a certain flow state this pair creates that makes for an amazing sound. |
Zuesman: I am considering the 761 vs 861 at this time. My dealer only has the 761. You mention that the 861 is 25% better than the 791. Please elaborate and explain the difference. Trying the 761 (stereo mode) in my system, I particularly like the bass, separation of instruments, clarity and articulation. The tonal quality of the bass and lower midrange seem very good. As the frequency rises, the tonal character of the instruments seem to become harsher, brighter, especially instruments like violins. French horns sound more "brassy" and lose some of their "roundness" or "warmth" (vs other brass instruments). Note I am playing classical music. My preamp is a VAC Master, all my cables are Shunyata (sigma for power, omega for interconnects) and my speakers are Sonus Faber Il Cremonese-- so my system should be on the warmer, less clinical side. I therefore am interested in knowing in particular if the tonal quality of the 861 is different from the 761. If other sonic characteristics are also different that information would be appreciated. Thank you for answering. I appreciate your insight. |
Thanks for asking the question Craig, I’m interested in that too. You have a very impressive system. I Auditioned the 761 in my system, Looking to improve on my Michii S5. I could not hear an improvement, certainly not one I would write the check for. I like simaudio equipment And was hoping this would be a keeper, but for me, it was not even though I’m sure it’s a fine amp. I keep trying to improve on what I have, but I think the Michi maybe punches above its weight. I’d certainly be interested in the 861, however, if it is the kind of improvement described and would be very interested in the answer to your question from someone with experience. |
Interesting experiences above by other members. Synergy is key, as always. When I first received my 761 it was paired with Opera Loudspeakers, Diva Callas (latest version). The Divas are interesting speakers. Very capable, excellent separation of fine detail, very resolving. Over time with the 761 I played around with different cables and found the 761 to be very revealing of upstream gear and pretty much all ancillary equipment. It is NOT a forgiving, rounded golden amp. It is pretty much dead neutral, presents a super low noise floor, is very fast; hard to summarize in a few words but it is an extremely highly capable amp. I am still learning more and more about music and tuning the system. Fast forward: a few weeks ago I auditioned ATC SC40 passives with the 641/681 and was so impressed and blown away by the organic synergy and overall performance I purchased the SCM40s. It's been a pretty short time since I have been listening to the 761/ATC pairing but I know synergy when I experience it. This is synergy like Luxman/ Harbeth, or Pass/Wilson. If you need more power for sure go with the larger amp, but do not expect the native character or "house sound" of the North series to be greatly different. I heard this with the 641 in my own house on the same opera speakers. The 761 had more control and more overall reach in to the stage and all that, but the colors and dynamics of the source were able to shine through in all the glory in either case. |
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