Equalizer in a Hi Fi system

@tattooedtrackman , as long as they are electrically compatible with consumer hi fi, why not look at the whole field for all their diversity and choices?  Some are more appropriate than others certainly 

@dgarretson , right on the money! Exactly!

“I’ll add that at this level of performance, a studio equalizer is a seductive and cost-effective opportunity to improve a system without endless component and cable swaps. Perhaps an endpoint.”

Exactly!

I want a red SPL PQ. Sexy!💋🎶🎧

@dgarretson , I have checked out your gear. Wow.  With that quality and a Manley MP in between pre and monos, I can ONLY IMAGINE what kind of insane SQ you are hearing. And with your ability to bend a curve, on such a hi fi rig, you can pretty much make most recordings sound any way you want!

Off the topic of equalizers. But am listening to the early 80’s bought vinyl I have preserved ever since of Peter Gabriel’s Security. Great album. The sound is just so much more integrated and musical and real sounding than its digital counterpart, the latter of which side by side simply sounds like a fake copy. It’s really stunning. The timbre and note saturation and fullness of the recording on that original vinyl is SO MUCH MORE SATISFYING. It’s really not even close. 

Understood. Thanks. Room correct to flat. Then impose target curves to tonal preference. The second part for me is the hearing is believing part. If I’m gonna tonally adjust in the digital domain, I’ve gotta hear that it is as 3D and saturated sounding, and as musical, as analog. Gotta hear a DEQX in action. Let me know where I can. You know how to reach me. 

I know another Audiogoner who did exactly that with a Charter Oak PEQ-1 (my unit) that he bought used in excellent condition on Reverb. It sits right at his listening spot. CONTROL CENTRAL. 

@jtcf , awesome to hear it’s working out for you!  The pro analog gear are really another level or two up from where Schiit is. In most cases just no comparison. 

Thread 'The Charter Oak PEQ-1'
 

there are better products than Loki and Lokius!  See link

Happy New Year all!  Over the weekend I did something I haven’t done in 10 years. I moved my speakers all around in terms of distance from front wall and toe in to see if the current longstanding setup is indeed the best. Spent hours trying different distances and toe ins. Indeed my room interacts best with my speakers from the perspective of the listening position exactly where they have been for 10 years. So I guess I got that right in the beginning 👍😊. Now, as setup, I hear appropriate image specificity without things shifting between left and right as tones change frequencies. Vocals are heard as dead center. Bass response is extremely linear and even to my ear without standing wave frequencies or null frequencies to my ear. I therefore do believe I have a reasonably good room and am hearing what I should from my loudspeakers. Not sure what DEQX could do to improve but still want to try. And still will travel soon to BACCH showroom across the state. Oh…and still got the hots for SPL PQ.  The looks. Love the red and layout of dials. Gorgeous piece. Have no idea if sounds better than my beloved CO’s. 

I have heard the BACCH. still traveling though and will give full report when I get home this evening 😊

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-charter-oak-peq-1.969510/

I am going to be brief, because I’m tired. But the BACCH preamp is the real deal. It didn’t envelope with regular records as much as I thought it would. But it was something else with binaural Chesky recordings of voices and various sounds. However those recordings were impressive in their panning and sound field anyway even without the BACCH in circuit. For regular music it did a couple of things. It widened considerably the soundstage with the beginnings of a wrap around effect, but never really got behind you. Was nonetheless the less impressive and easily noticeable in vs out. It also seemed to open the music and the dynamics.  Kind of took a veil off to make everything sound better. This was a smaller change but still easily noticeable. Can I live without BACCH? Yes, because while it does things differently I get equal amounts of improvement/fun from my studio grade analog EQ. If I didn’t have that I’d probably be buying a BACCH preamp. Mine is a lot easier to use and a lot cheaper though at 2700 dollars 😊

Nonetheless impressive, sorry. Typo 

If you want ultimate SQ for an equalizer with minimal or no noticeable degradation, well then…

listen, the Schiit EQ products are, well, sh-t sounding. Sorry, but if you use them and think you’re hearing state of the art EQ you don’t know what you’re missing!

I would like to elaborate. I compare the two in the context of bass and or treble tone shaping. Not semi surgical cuts. Mainly modest boosts. While I’ve not compared the two with frequency cuts, I certainly find a huge sonic advantage with the aforementioned pro studio gear in the context of boosts in bass or treble. 

And yes, I’m equalizing RECORDINGS. not gear. Excellent recordings obviously require less or no adjustment 

https://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/692cello/index.html
 

For my thoughts on equalizing, they are best reflected in the above read. Great stuff!

My pleasure!

I know how well regarded Schiit products are. However a high quality studio grade parametric balanced piece has cleaner more natural sounding boosts. After all, these are the equalizers that are used in the studio to master your favorite recordings. Using one at home is the ultimate in hi fi tone control. 

Avalon AD2055, Millennia nseq4, and my own Charter Oak all sound unbelievable in home playback 

I just think if you’re gonna spend $1500 for a Loki Max then go pro and you’ll be rewarded in spades in SQ. Yes, you’ll lose the remote, but who cares when you can shine up a dull recording much more beautifully with a 2-4 grand pro piece used in mastering studios. I’ve heard Loki Max in my home against these other pieces. I know what I’m talking about. 

And don’t forget that I’ve heard BOTH in my hi fi system. Y’all really cannot criticize my approach until you’ve done the same. I’m telling you a 2700 dollar pro EQ sounds FAR BETTER than the Loki max. Both in speaker chain and headphone chain. 

To all. All good points, but please don’t mistake my Charter Oak for a surgical mixing notch EQ. It is a broad Q tonal adjustment device with broadly overlapping bands used in a mastering setting. It is quite appropriate in a home hi fi playback setup. It is the best tonal adjustment device that I’ve ever heard. Inboard or outboard. I’ll attach a graphic. It’s broad overlapping curves are like classic Baxandall EQs which are the basis for basic bass and treble onboard controls, a 2 band EQ. 

https://images.thomann.de/pics/prod/266092_manual.pdf

Page 5 of 7 shows the curves. Thanks

Pink Floyd Money was one of the BACCH highlights. I’m listening to it now on my loudspeaker system, of course with Charter Oak PEQ1 analog EQ. The guitar l solo in the middle. I closed my eyes and the guitar is emanating from 2 feet left of my left speaker. EQ off and it’s more veiled and 1 foot left of my left speaker. AND I’m tone shaping bass and treble to my heart’s desire. I add more treble than usual to this album. It’s slightly dark. Yes, I prefer my setup to the BACCH any day. But…what if I had both?…

@mbmi , did you ever get the MQ112?  I don’t remember seeing your follow up. 

Does @mbmi like it? The MQ 112?

Oh sorry. Didn’t know @mbmi ​​​​@tattooedtrackman are one and the same. My bad!

I have information:

That’s from Phil Tennison at Mogami. Regarding the Mogami Gold XLR to RCA 

My Cardas are custom wired exactly the same. They are GREAT 

Mogami GOLD XLR to RCA 6 foot available on Amazon 

API looks nice. Not stereo ganged. Every adjustment have to turn two dials the same amount. Look for stereo ganged unit. I know the SPL PQ is pricey, but it’ll do ganged so one turn for both channels. I’d spring for that if both of my CO died. 

@mirolab , how close are the programmers at Plugin Alliance getting these classic emulations to sound in comparison to their original analog hardware counterparts?  I listened to a YouTube video comparing the SPL PQ, plug-in vs hardware version on my HEKse. I honestly couldn’t tell a difference.  Are plug-ins that good now across the board?

So post production, what’s the best way to implement say a SPL PQ plug in for digital EQ?  You’d have to use a computer to do it?  And dedicated outboard DACs are more high fidelity, yes?  In other words, in the home stereo setting you are better off doing the EQ post conversion in the analog domain?  Then you can use whatever high end streamer and dac you choose?  Which sound better anyway?

Thanks, my friend. Great insights. 

Boils down to dedicated streamer vs computer serving code. Easier to get highest fidelity from former than latter. Probably best to stick to, in this example, hardware SPL PQ vs plug-in for home playback. I’d also be willing to bet bigger broader tonal boosts like air band better done with analog hardware than same equalizer via plug-in digitally. Miro, you seem to indicate this for playback 

On extension, I’m guessing the best fidelity post production playback digital EQ would indeed be something like @mijostyn ’s DEQX Preamp. Because it’s a dedicated audio piece optimized for highest fidelity playback. Well, I still want try DEQX, @mijostyn , or hear it in a showroom. Let me know when I can hear that. 

So for the rca to XLR input cable, 1 and 3 both ground, 2 hot. And for the output side, 1 ground 2 hot 3 floating. I wonder if the Skyline piece would’ve worked if I’d used that output pin scheme. You’ve just taught me something!  Good luck with the API unit!  Look forward to hearing more!  Which exact model is that?

 

👍🙏

@mijostyn , thanks for the update!  When the time is right I’d love a demo. If possible. 

@mijostyn , I’ll reach out to you on a demo. Thanks 

@jtcf , any good feedback on the API Select SR24 yet?

@ellajeanelle , I read a lot of mastering forum threads because basically I tone shape and great insights for the “next step” beyond mastering, post production tone shaping to taste at home, can be gleaned from these threads. Also, you read about the best analog gear and digital plugins here too. Mixing spills into this talk as well and it involves more narrow Q notch like correction. You will read here that digital EQ usually favored for this phase. But for final tonal touches in the mastering phase, so many engineers will tell you the best analog boxes can’t be beat. Indeed it’s common knowledge in these circles that passive EQ broad Q filter boosts for air band are THE best way to cure an overly digital sounding mix. 
So I’ve got some conclusions and parallels for home EQ from all of this. My readings and experiences tell me that 1. One must never conflate room corrective EQ with tonal EQ. 2. Like mixing, room corrective EQ should be done digitally. And 3. Broader based EQ for tonal adjustments will always sound better with great analog gear, in my opinion studio balanced hardware EQ, than digital. 

Right now listening to Daft Punk - Random Access Memories as follows:

Matrix X Sabre 3 dac streamer > Charter Oak analog balanced hardware PEQ-1 > Headamp GSX-Mini > HEKse. 
Tonally adjusted to personal taste. For this album, for my ears, about +3 at 40 hz, +1 at 120 hz and + 6 at 20 kHz. 
It’s the most amazing sound you’ve ever heard. 🎶😊🎧

I do too. Totally prefer loudspeakers. Like thought to bounce back and forth between the two. The headphone chain has the edge with resolution. But feeling the music and timbre…speakers win

the ultimate list of One set of controls, Stereo EQ

Gearspace thread 

This is where I’ll go first if I ever need to hunt for an EQ that’s true stereo. Great comprehensive list. Was wrong about SPL PQ. It’s not true stereo linked