Equalizer in a Hi Fi system

Hate to disagree. I’ve commented extensively on this pages ago. My Charter Oak PEQ1 I’ve directly compared against Roon DSP using some digital shelf or bells in bass and treble regions. It DIDNT COME CLOSE to the SQ of the 2700 dollar analog piece. I have done this already previously in the thread. Am not going to repeat again here. Notch filtering and room correction digital better. Tone shaping analog better. I intend to try @mijostyn DEQX though, to be sure. That’s a summary. There are PAGES of debate previously 

Thanks @tattooedtrackman , alas I am not a professional. Just an avid listener and passionate tweaking audiophile. I may know a lot about how they sound in my home, but @mirolab is the professional with his own studio. He’s heard more than me. Both analog and digital. And @mijostyn is pretty well dialed in on digital post playback. I’m just a guy who’s lucky enough to have found a very special piece of hardware in the Charter Oak. It’s sound quality surpasses some peers costing twice as much. 
But yes, I want to hear and learn all. And I will make it a point to hear your MQ112, @mijostyn ’s DEQX, and last but not least the BACCH SP. 

@tattooedtrackman , I am stoked that you love your MQ112. Don’t be afraid to laud its praises repeatedly here. Because there’s a strong tide we’re swimming against of all digital EQ lovers who have never or not recently tried a high end analog piece and they simply don’t know what beautiful sound they are missing. The more of us who speak out, the more will try. 

@au_lait , care to tell our digital EQ lovers here a little more about the sonics of the CP?

Oh wow. The legendary Cello Palette. NICE

I’ve never heard one. But I would venture to say yes, from what I do know. It’s legendary. Many in recording and hi fi circles consider it a landmark piece and a benchmark to which units over the years have been compared. Its sonics are from Mark Levinson. Recommend again the Cello Palette Stereophile review from yester year. Even today the article’s arguments to EQ are compelling. I totally live and die by that theory. It’s a great read. Page 1 or 2 i referenced with a link. 

Thanks @au_lait !  Awesome. Agree totally with that 20khz and not higher. Yes, the 50khz boost sounds good on my CO, but it’s too thin down lower in the audible frequencies. While I have no doubt that switch is the bomb in a mastering studio, I find the 20 kHz on my CO is the absolute BEST treble tone dial I’ve ever heard 

Rush is my favorite band of all time. Many of their albums varied considerably in production quality. Most of them benefit massively from high end EQ. The better the EQ, the better the enjoyment!  It’s interesting. I’ve found that some of their hi res remasters are worse and sometimes better. The Redbook remaster of 2112 was a huge sonic improvement. The Metallica Black album remaster a big improvement too. Many remasters suck though. Yes production and remasters are so highly variable it’s nuts. I therefore cannot live without EQ. 

I haven’t done all that at Audiogon yet. It’s all on Head Fi. For HP chain. Sorry I haven’t done it on Audiogon for my loudspeaker chain yet. But I discussed all my gear down to the cabling pages ago. I’ll find it and paste it here again. It’s in along narrative earlier in the thread. Be prepared…

Actually it’s all on page 3. See that page.

Highlights:

Auralic Aries streamer > Bryston B135 SST2 integrated amp with onboard DAC > Martin Logan Montage dipoles.  Transparent cabling. 
The Bryston has an unbalanced tape loop that is completely transparent. In it is contained the CO PEQ-1. They are mated with 4 Cardas Clear Sky RCA to XLR cables which are custom grounded by Cardas to provide full unity gain with every pro piece I’ve put in the loop with the one exception of the Skyline. 

Note saturation is EVERYTHING in hi fi. You cannot have resolution without note saturation. If your EQ implementation doesn’t allow the full note saturation of true bypass, it’s simply not good enough.  You also cannot have good dynamics and PRaT and transience without full saturation. 

For all you Peter Gabriel fans. His new release “I/o” at 24/96 FLAC on Qobuz is awesome as well as sonically a production treat as well. Nothing like hearing our favorite artists from yesteryear recorded today with all the saturation, richness , and fullness of the modern day’s studio’s capabilities. Real treat. Listening to this album on lunch break right now on my HEKse chain. Mind scrambling!

The track “playing for time” is about to make me cry, it sounds so beautiful. I love Peter Gabriel. Going on a PG binge for a bit!

I like bright side better 

I’ll check out the video as well

I do indeed, when Ed at Audible Images gets one in. He said a few months away. If I can find another dealer, I’ll try sooner. I intend to demo MQ112, DEQX and BACCH. Will be after holidays for all though

OMG. Ken in the video uses COOKING analogy to EQ ing like I did pages ago. That’s crazy. I SWEAR I didn’t get that from him!

Very interesting video. Good points wrt to volume, biamping, room correction and variability of recordings. 

He’s right on the money with volume affect. Less perceived bass at low volume 

Max distortion < 0.005. No degradation (cable dependent, of course)

@tattooedtrackman i have called almost all 26 dealers within 150 miles to try to get a listen to your MQ112. No one has it. Unless I travel to the NJ area I will not be able to listen anytime soon. Sorry. Will try later on when it’s more available. 

SkyFi is a MAJOR showroom for McIntosh products. You are lucky you live near it. 

Nice!

@mbmi , did you say you got a new MQ112?  If so, how is it?

“Using EQ effectively is usually MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE, and often times it is FREE, as it's built-in to nearly all DAPs. And EQs or EQ plugins are available for nearly all computer-based music playback software or network streamers.”

Please apply what I said previously to the ABOVE paragraph 

“I also have no problem spending good money to choose a "better cable" for it's improved physical or cosmetic properties, such as better construction, less tangling, better comfort, ideal length, the appropriate connectors, and microphonics, etc.”

slight nitpick here:  don’t generalize EQ’s. On the consumer side most are poorly implemented and don’t meet the audiophile standard. You really have to hunt and pay for the good ones, in my experience. Generalizing statements above about EQs is dangerous as it leads audiophiles to assume all EQ sounds bad. Right?  They hear one. It sounds bad. They give up. The truth is you really get what you pay for. If you really want SOTA EQ for your SOTA stereo, you have painstakingly demo software or hardware and pay the piper. Just like any hi fi component 

Otherwise great great write up😊👍!

I quoted wrong paragraph. Sorry

Many of the above mentioned examples in the quote will suck on the hi fi playback end.  BEWARE!  If you’re an audiophile you’re really gonna want stuff the caliber of which is used in a studio. Or you’ll be disappointed 

I found an MQ112 to listen to. The catch is dealer and I cannot get our schedules together before Xmas. Gotta wait. @mbmi , I also look forward to your listening impressions. Specifically if either of you MQ112 owners have any words of description for that last 10k band, as to its qualities in a boost situation, id love to hear. 10k is too low to really impart air. Unless it’s a shelf and boosts everything above it. Don’t think it’s a shelf. 

…NOT!!

Read the thread please. Yes. A lot has been said over pages. Thanks!

Had experience with Loki Max, Charter Oak , Millennia, Avalon, and now Skyline M3D

Very happy owner of 2 Charter Oaks. Prefer them over LM. If you want more than you wish to read about why, start on page 1 😊

Of course he’s entitled to his opinion. I’ve said plenty already in this thread. Won’t repeat. 

There’s certainly a lot of good discussion about this earlier in the thread 

You CAN do XLR to RCA in many cases with custom grounded cables like my Cardas. Obviates the need for undesirable extra box or converter. 

Mogami Gold XLR to RCA can be bought online and are already properly grounded to work without converter box for most matings of pro and consumer hi fi 

MQ112 is analog. DSP is digital signal processing. It’s equalization performed pre dac in the digital domain 

Your cdp is a digital source. That code gets converted to analog waveforms either in that machine or you stand alone dac or your preamp. Tell me your components and I’ll explain how it all works. Also what cables used also. 

And yes, it’s very ok to have cdp as source and analog EQ running into your preamp

All digital signals MUST get converted to analog by the time they hit your speaker wire. Now if you’re wireless…can all occur in one box. @tattooedtrackman , tell me your components and cables. By the way, I don’t know where on Audiogon to find everyone’s gear list. And I don’t know how to post mine. 

@lordrootman , what do you think about room and speaker correction with SOTA DSP first (get room physically as right as you can before, actually.  And speaker placement). Do all that first. Then would you say it’s ok to EQ tonally with high end analog gear?  Or is that too much?  
I have a good room I think, but haven’t DSP corrected speakers or room response yet. I just do analog EQ with a piece that I love and sounds absolutely sublime. Should I stop there, or try to do the DSP for speakers/ room too?  Your thoughts infinitely appreciated!

@mapman , there has been great discussion on this subject matter earlier in the thread. I believe both digital and analog have their own sets of strengths and weaknesses. See pages prior. 

@tattooedtrackman , so in your chain your Audio Research cdp is your dac, which converts the code read off the disc to analog waveform. The rest of your chain is analog. Your MQ112 must go in between your preamp and amp. Perfectly super set up😊

I will bet you MQ112 beautifies the sound of your very good gear quite nicely, depending on the needs of the discs you spin

👍

right on!  It’s a great piece, im sure. Look forward to eventually hearing it!

If I ever need another EQ, when my CO dies, it will be DW Fearn VT-5. It’s stereo ganged (one set of controls, not two). It has adjustable master gain. It’s got passive LC circuitry with class A triode tube stages.  It’s a cool $10,900 new. 😆🎧🎶