Eminent Technology ET-2 Tonearm Owners

****Once the wife's insulation has melted...."****

Frogman for me this wording conjures up a very vivid and clear image.

Its at this point “once the wife’s insulation has melted” that she comes downstairs, knocks on the door and tells me in a stern voice to add more insulation to the ceiling and walls of my room. :^(

My apologies for my feeble attempt at Balkan humour - I have probably left myself open to ridicule now by the humour master himself.

Slaw - fwiw - the 3 spikes on the base of the ET2 are stainless steel 10-32 cone point set screws available from any supplier. An excellent suggestion I thought from Dover to just file them down to use naked with acrylic or any other material you don’t want to mar. Ordering a few gives you options with a few different armboards.

Nandric
Try to 'isolate' your wife

Well Nikola - I am a little confused. Since Serbians according to you are known as natural born warriors, I dare not ask what the Serbian way is to isolate your wife.
I am curious though how it is done in your Netherlands.
I have taken what I consider the sub optimal way of dealing with this problem – much like a sub sonic filter, I turn on my own filter. I realize this is just a bandaid and does not solve the problem, just like a sub sonic filter.

Ketchup – that is interesting data on the pumps. Thanks for sharing. When my ET2 and 2.5 were next to one another in the same room I noticed when unplugging one for the other how the pressure changed on the dial of the regulator. If I remember right the pressure on the dial would go up with the ET2 and down on the ET2.5 showing that the ET2.5 inhales more air with the larger manifold. So I had to adjust the regulator up or down to compensate.

Here is a pic of the heavy magnesium arm wand

I am curious how many prototypes it took Bruce to come up with that length and size of step up.

Here is some more information for you guys regarding the

I Beam compliance

I asked Bruce another question in regards to the I Beam. Single, double, triple.

If I add one or two leaf springs the I beam becomes stiffer - less compliant.
I have 3 of these ready to swap in - single, double, triple I Beams.

I asked him in his opinion, if a stiffer (lower compliance) I Beam would work better with a lower compliance cartridge, and the opposite true for a higher compliance cartridge? Does it not make sense to match up one end (cartridge side) up with the other side (counter weight I Beam) ?

Just as a guideline - I realize all our setups are different and we need to experiment on our own.

This was Bruce’s response.

Chris,

With respect to the i-beams, this is correct: a stiffer (lower compliance) I Beam works better with a lower compliance cartridge.

Hope this helps – brucet

My ET 2.5 runs a low compliance MC I have been using a double leaf. I am going to try the triple on it. I find the Acutex 420 works well with a single and double. With the triple it still works but what can happen is if the record is not ideal (flat) the sound can get – I am not good with words – too aggressive to me. Lets put it this way – if you are a driving a truck with a leaf spring suspension on the back. What happens when you add or take away leaf springs to the suspension. Now take that truck down a rough road (representing by the lp). Are you going to want fewer or more leaf springs for a smoother ride. The Ibeam is like the leaf spring but working in a horizontal instead of vertical way.

Can anyone tell me what other tonearm out there - regardless of design - allows one to tailor the tonearm compliance to that of any cartridge you are using like this one. Does another tonearm exist like this ?

Slaw – I think you should open up a record store. Make it an internet store with an open chat line to help audiophiles. You would probably make a lot of vinyl people happy picking out good sounding albums for them. But make sure you are your own boss, and don’t have a boss, because he would be upset with why he couldn’t get rid of his Nightfly copies; and other LP’s that don’t meet up to your standards. Just joking of course…not

Thanks for the lp recommendations – will search through my lp’s to see if I can find any of them. For someone that has worked in the IT field all his career - my lp cataloguing system really sucks. Its based on my subliminal - I think. I just find what I need.

it seems unless there is some sort of 'reference' established regarding differences in what we're hearing, the whole process is for not.

Well to me references are like opinions – everyone has one. If you asked 10 audiophiles what their reference(opinon) was for something you would get 18 responses. I have heard this many times on public chat forums like this. Just My Opinion of course.

Slaw - My heart @ soul is in the music , $@^$## the electronics.

I agree - I want to share something I came across today.

Check out what the lead track is.

Groove Into Bits Vol. 1 - Tracklist:

1. Steady on - Shawn Colvin
2. Last days at the lodge - Amos Lee
3. Saltarello - Dead Can Dance
4. Golden Brown - The Strangles
5. Come to the river - Hans Theesink & Terry Evans
6. Blues Walk - Lou Donaldson
7. So Strong - Labi Siffre (demotrack)
8. Il Blues - Sam Lightnin Hopkins
9. House of the rising sun - Cynder Peters
10. Come Di - Paolo Conte
11. Kirya - Ofra Haza
12. Homeless - Paul Simon
13. Wade in the water - Eva Cassidy
14. Money Money - The King Singers

My favourite songs on side one of Shawn Colvin are actually shotgun down the avalanche and stranded.
Super LP thanks for the recommendation

Whether you're in it for the mechanics or the feeling...... that's what we all have to decide.

FWIW - I have a room I play with the gear in; it is a form of therapy for me so it really is beneficial, and l learn a lot in there. This doesn’t have to be a big or elaborate room.
I have the other room that rarely changes. LPs’s all over the place from previous listening sessions, along with some tape. I really enjoy music in there to get my fix and learn a lot about the music itself in there. If something happens in the first room that I think might be good to introduce into the second room. I go for it.

Slaw –
My first 420 str, I tried out as I did the other MM’s the last year or two on my pivot arms first as they have removeable headshells and make it easy; and another big reason I hesitated putting it on the ET2, as Mark has already pointed out; the angle of the cartridge pins can be a real PITA on the ET2 armtube if your wire leads are long.
Here she is on the pivot arm – well sort of a hybrid arm in this case – DV505.

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1322856939.jpg

I got the 420 to sound good, but it didn’t better a couple other MM cartridges I already owned.

It was not until I read Frogman’s post about it on the ET2, that I removed a cartridge that was on it, put the 420str on the ET2 and it was like – holy crappola.

BTW - I am not sure if Nandric is coming back here although I hope he does. You have been away for a while. I think it has to do with being on the "wrong thread" and being asked to consider taking a Red Pill.

02-04-13: Nandric
Dear Dover, I hope you realize that we are again in the wrong thread?

Dear Nandric (Nikola)

My mother used to say to me.

“That is wrong son...don't do that”
“Don’t do that son, it is bad for you”
“If you keep doing that son, your xxxx will fall off”

The funny thing is, I remember that the more she said things like this, the more I ended up wanting to do those things.

Back to normal programming.

Here is something alien but valuable I think.
Alien Screws

Just received in the mail the brass screw set. Seems like a good price for the quality. Not affiliated with the site.

As a tweak for ET2 owners, if your current cartridge set up does not allow you to get to end of the I Beam with the lead weights putting the next size screw / bolt on may be all that is needed to get there. I keep losing the things myself.
Cheers

Nandric -I know of course that the Terminator is no match for the ET-2 but both are linear so why not try?

Hi Nandric (Nikola) Never heard the Terminator yet alone on the same table as an ET2. Feel free to share your impressions. There are Terminator owners here as you know.

I have found personally, and you can confirm this by looking at individual setups.

We SL Tonearm owners seem to share one thing in common- a straight line – anywhere on the LP.

From there we are all very individualistic. Not one set up is the same.

Cheers Chris

Hi Grant – welcome to the thread. Another New Zealander. I wish I was there right now.

With both Mark and yourself discussing Medo’s I dug out my medo ac0110 pumps from the past today and hooked them up separately and together to experiment. I remember I received them with three wires hanging. I cut off the three prong from two power cords and spliced them to make the wall plugs. So I did connect their grounds. I was only using one at the time and the other was a backup.

Separately mine both produce about 12 psi on a pressure gauge inserted within a few feet of tubing to the ET2. A real dynamo of a pump for only being a couple inches by a few inches.
When I connect them together on a T Valve PSI only goes up to about 15 psi as they are working against one another. Hopefully someone else can chime in if they are using two Medo’s. I went to the Timeter pump after the single Medo. The Medos are a linear piston design if that helps. Maybe Dover if he sees this can offer some advice as he used multiple pumps with his ET2 setup.
Cheers Chris

Have filters and a pressure gauge, but not sure what a "regulator" is and locally what industry would be the best source for a suitable unit.

Hi Grant - this picture shows a

regulator (black top dial knob), moisture bulb and trap, pressure gauge

They can be purchased separately or as a unit at any hydraulics place typically located in industrial areas.
Total cost about $70 us dollars. The regulator allows you to dial the pressure down or up. The one in the picture is portable. You can hold it in your lap sitting in your sweet spot, and adjust the pressure up or down and hear how the music delivery is affected.
You open the regulator by lifting up – turn clockwise and counter clockwise. When the music sounds best to you in your room – push it back in to lock – your done.

As a kind of tune up I personally recommend anyone with an ET2 send alot more air than is needed to the tonearm so you can determine if you have any leaks from screws/bolts. This tonearm was meant to last forever – its industrial quality just like Bruce’s subwoofer :^)

subwoofer

The worst thing you can do is blow the tube off.

Bruce Thigpen can also replace your low pressure manifold for a high pressure one. This changes out the manifold only – the spindle stays so you are left with a high pressure ET2 not a ET 2.5. I recommend emailing him to get the current price which is very reasonable. The high pressure manifold allows you to run low and high pressure with the ET2.

Cheers

but I hear a slight negative which does not exist with the mass approach. As I said, I think that it is caused by induced currents circulating the spindle.

Hi Richard - Did you try the magnetic damping on belt drive or string drive as well ?

Do you really want these currents anywhere near your delicate feed from the cartridge?

Richard – in your opinion what would you consider as “near your delicate feed”. Reason I ask.

The two little circle magnets I use with my ET 2.5 - the closest one is a good 7 or 8 inches away from where the wire exits the armtube – when at the the end of the record which is the worst case.

I should note I am using copper on the ET 2.5 right now. I have silver on the ET 2.0 that is on a brass armpod. No room for trying magnets there.

Looking at my analog gear its obvious I am not afraid of magnets.

I know some who think magnets cause cancer.

Can you give some details on how to go about making that lead slug for inside the spindle?

Cheers Chris

Dover
PS The tantric yoga is no joke - stand on one leg, put the other to your ear, and you may hear a little more bottom end

Well I have to say am very impressed with your flexibility Dover. I am very happy that I run every day for my health. But I can’t even touch my toes. I guess I should start Yoga..with my wife.

Frogman – your observations are similar to mine and the reason I am still using the magnetic damping.

Here is how I am currently set up.
ET 2.5 Magnetic damping

What is not obvious in the pic is that there is actually over one inch of clearance between surface and spindle when it comes across. Can the positioning be improved ? Will try three on top of one another. I just placed three for even distribution as the spindle comes across.

I am assuming placing any magnets directly under the manifold will have a reduced effect ? I could try this with the ET 2.0.

Home depot has a large selection of various magnets.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=magnets&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All

My wire exists at the armtube. After getting the Dynavector gauss level info about using thousands of gauss in their tonearm – these 50 (approximate) gauss magnets seem harmless enough ?

Many variables here including air psi. Different PSI’s do affect how the spindle reacts based on my direct experience and discussed here already.

Eddy Current with a floating model

My experience with the stock ET2 and 2.5 spindles – I am no scientist – is the higher the PSI the less force required with magnets and the smoother (the motion will be). I use 19 PSI. The ease with which the spindle goes through the manifold at higher PSI is obvious. Try 3 psi and 20 psi to prove this.

I have also said this before here - When my cartridge is raised and at rest – at 19 psi - I can blow on it and it will shoot across the top of the LP.

Also whether it is a 2.5 or 2.0 spindle. I would assume that the 2.0 spindle being smaller reacts more to less magnets? But the differences could be subtle?

Richard – did you have the lead slug in your spindle when you were using the magnets and was it at 12 PSI?

Cheers

Dover – I really do wish you had your ET2 up and running. The detail you remember is impressive.

Richard - that was a really nice post on your findings.
Thank you for taking the time to do this. Your attention to detail is very evident as well. BTW - Your recommendation for the ground on my second regulator has helped - thank you.
Also I found the “Why do we listen to music” on your website very informative. No affiliation to you or your site.

I want to ask (anyone) when we talk about dampening ....

Does damping not mean - reduce, diminish, dull - to a point that reduces some of “vinyl’s nasties”, caused mostly in this case with the ET2 tonearm – the off center hole - but we want to do this without taking away too much from the music itself ?

The effects of the magnets (small ones) so far to me is very subtle. Have not tried stronger neo magnets. I am not able to put magnets at both end of the manifold as my ET2 is on a pillar that only allows magnets at one end.

Is the effect of the magnets in my case subtle because, imo, I do not play really eccentric records. Or does the small amount of movement we are talking about even matter ?

Richard/Dover - would not significant movement in the ET2 spindle be required, to induce more than a subtle effect with eddy currents when using smaller magnets as I have been using on a stock spindle ?

I will say it can sound a little “nicer’ sometimes with the magnets on some lps. Lps are engineered all differently. On others the effect is very small if at all. There however seems to be more background/ambient info without magnets on those lps that I did notice a difference. I refer back to the car shock absorber analogy.

So does this not imply - trying to get the setup done right first - before you add any kind of dampening effect - even the oil trough ?

IMO - The good thing here is any ET2 owner can try these magnets very easily and decide for themselves. Hope we get more impressions from others.

I got a response back from Bruce that he is travelling. I did ask him about the manifold shims, and will also ask about his opinion on adding weight in the spindle itself - even if only 30 gms.

Very intriguing

Here is Bruce's opinion on using ET2 manifold shims

On 3/5/2013 10:05 AM,
Hi Bruce

We would like your opinion on the small space between the ends of the manifold and the rubber rings.
You can slide the edge of a piece of paper in there.
Is it by design for resonance control - to achieve a certain frequency ?
If shims are inserted in there - does this not in theory make the setup more rigid - desirable?
Would this affect the general frequency resonances of the ET2?
We look forward to your opinion on this. thanks. Chris

Chris,

The o-ring is used as a seal, when the manifold is inserted, the ring is flattened and the gap is taken up, that is the design intent.
The science of resonance in a phonograph tonearm would first involve a measurement to prove something exists. This is very easy, Take another ET2 tonearm and use its cartridge to play the tonearm under test. Compare the levels of record playback to the measured level of vibration on the tonearm under test using a spectrum analyzer. If the vibration levels measured are greater than -50dB below playback levels then there may be something significant and you might call it a resonance.
Odds are good that the manifold has no significant vibration levels from a stylus forcing function while playing a record. I hope this helps.

brucet

Richard, Dover, others ?

When Bruce says:

“science of resonance in a phonograph tonearm would first involve a measurement to prove something exists.”

Curious if magnetic and mass damping, and any of its effects can be measured other than just by listening ? Have you done it?

Yes when you talk to Dover and I you are conversing with the future.

Richard/Dover – have you figured out a way to tell me how the stock markets will open in Toronto or New York ?

Small correction to my previous post. humidity is good I have found for vinyl (as we deal with static), but not good for ESL’s especially my Quads which are very sensitive to levels. They like it really dry. So its like being between a rock and a hard place in a way. Still Quad 57 and 63 are designed differently. Some info I got from a respected rebuilder - The 63 panels will be destroyed soon if placed in rooms with high humidity. Not as hardy as the 57’s – now there’s an oxymoron for you.

The Acoustats do not seem affected by humidity – are they like Hercules of ESL’s ? Both in their ability to withstand conditions over time and accept wattage without problems. Wondering if this is due to the amount of space between the mylar?

Cheers

Hi Thekong

Yes please post a pic of your ET2.5 with the modified counterweight when you can; would love to see it and look forward to your ET 2.5 impressions as well. I have had my ET2 on the left side of a table. I found it very awkward both from a handling and viewing (the cantilever) perspective.

Then again I don’t get driving on the left side of the road either.....

I am curious about the Rockport and Kuzma based on what Ketchup and yourself said regarding the tubing.

Ketchup
What about that stiff plastic tubing on the Kuzma? It seems like it would have a huge effect on the arm's movement even if both of the fittings swiveled.

Thekong
I can’t say they have no effect on movement, but they certainly don’t hinder it, at least not to the point of causing mistracking.

Based on my ET2 experiences, the arm can be lined up properly and if the pump is decent it will track fine. But nowhere near its potential if the wiring is affecting its travel. So would not the best air bearing design/solution mean no wire(if it was possible) and tubing attached to the moving pieces, giving the cartridge/armtube the greatest freedom ? I'm just sayin' as a user.

The Rockport and Kuzma tubing makes me think of my past experiences with my VPI JMW 12 tonearm. That tonearm’s wires are used as its antiskating method. Their positioning pushes the tonearm back toward the outside.

Could the tubing being in a loop at the centre of the Rockport and Kuzma arm, be acting as a type of dampener for the arms motion in both directions ?

Cheers

Richard

The resonance frequency figures we have from BT that we have discussed here.

ET 2 (5 - 6 hz)
ET 2.5 (2 - 3 hz) due to the larger spindle plus weighing a little more - not sure what the actual gram number is.

So at 3x the resonant frequency we are loosing around 15% of the groove modulation, as the arm is still at this point moving back and forth sideways slightly.

This is not a problem provided this 3 x resonant frequency is not a valid audio signal. Actually you would need to extend the graph out to around 6x resonant frequency before the transmissibility was approaching 0. Until we reach that point, part of the low frequency groove modulation goes into moving the cartridge and arm sideways and not into generating an output voltage.

Based on what you are saying Richard - does this not then mean:

ET 2.5 = 6 x 2.5 hz (midpoint for the ET 2.5) places it at 15 hz

ET 2.0 = 6 x 5.5 (midpoint for the ET 2.0) = 33 hz

The number 6 that you multiplied the resonance frequency by. Would this number need to change for a really high compliance versus really low compliance cartridge to be more accurate ?

The last couple summer months with the door/windows closed in my basement room the temp will go up 1 degree every hour.

forgot to mention this is with the AC turned off. with it on having your room in the basement pays off. cold air sinks down from rest of the house.

it hasn't brought up a chartreuse key with a dayglo (bright) label attached to the short end reading

my secret weapon

When used as the sun is just cresting the hill top, on its way down; guaranteed to attract those fish, like an audiophile at the Audio Show where they are presenting the latest and greatest power cord. :^)

03-13-13: Ct0517
The Rockport and Kuzma tubing makes me think of my past experiences with my VPI JMW 12 tonearm. That tonearm’s wires are used as its antiskating method. Their positioning pushes the tonearm back toward the outside.

Could the tubing being in a loop at the centre of the Rockport and Kuzma arm, be acting as a type of dampener for the arms motion in both directions ?

03-18-13 John47
Mr Kuzma replies to MF

[quote]"A question of damping..."
........ There is, in fact, a level of effective damping on the Air Line tonearm. The cantilever suspension, and the air supply tube add damping. Our choice was for either too little or adequate damping; we chose the latter.

John47 - Thanks for confirming my assumptions with the Kuzma.

Dover - My ET 2.5 has the CF armtube and was the one I referenced in my post with the Benz Micro. So many variables here. Plus the specs I listed are for the stock cartridge – it is now a Ruby cantilever SS retip. I have no idea if the specs were changed when it got retipped. Does anyone know what a Ruby cantilever does over the stock Benz Micro one ? The cartridge came with the VPI TNT I bought years ago, and it needed a retip when I purchased it so I never heard it in stock form.

Richard – the triple leaf spring is tight but not 100% tight. It has a tiny bit of flex in it but you need to force it a little. If you hold it by the I Beam and shake it - it doesn't move. Still it is not as stiff as if you stuffed two toothpicks on either side.

Cheers

Thanks for the info Richard.

The thought that there may be more going on with the decoupled counterweight was triggered by your post where you quoted BT where he said that the ibeam had a natural frequency of 2-5 hz.

The figure I quoted is from the manual and I believe it is for a stock single I Beam with the weights that are supplied with the stock ET2 tonearm - not the ET 2.5 – which we agree is a different animal with different resonances.

I gotta believe that adding a leaf spring plus adding the ET 2.5 larger spindle changes things?

I would need to confirm this with Bruce.

03-23-13: Gnnett
When I look at the pictures of RK's arm I do not see an ET2. It is something specifically crafted and tuned to his system. It is not a universal tonearm. A little bit like the highly modified ET1 that Lloyd Walker uses actually.

Grantn – I thought your observation was a really interesting one.

You mentioned the ET1. It has a very interesting history.

As a reference point here I feel it is important to understand the transition from the ET1 to the ET2.

Especially since we have been debating Rigid versus Sprung I Beams/Counterweights.

ET1 - is Heavier and Rigid

ET2 - Lighter and Sprung

I skipped through the ET1 manual from Bruces’ site.
Anyone interested in Tonearm Resonances and Testing of Resonances should see pages 49 and onward. It is much more detailed than the ET2 manual in this respect and the tests apply to all tonearms in general.

So why did Bruce to go from an ET1 to an ET2. Do the design and specs themselves tell enough story?

There are big differences between the ET1 and ET2.

Actual tonearm tube/headshell weight is more on the ET1.

The small counterweights on the ET1 are actually the large size on the ET2.

The spindle weights are the same.

************************************************************
ET1 specs.
Spindle Weight 14 grams
Tonearm Tube Weight 14 grams / Headshell weight 5 grams
Counterbalance Weight 15 grams small 30 grams large.

************************************************************

ET2 specs
Spindle Weight 14 grams
Tonearm Tube Weight 11 grams
Counterbalance weights 5 grams small and 15 grams large.

************************************************************

Has anyone heard an ET1 versus ET2 ?

Cheers Chris

ET 2.0 spindle versus ET 2.5 spindle

I am focusing on the spindle /counterweight. I have some info to share.

It can be difficult from pictures telling the differences between the ET 2.0 and 2.5.

This makes it easier. Pictured is the

ET 2.5 spindle

Significant differences in weight and diameter.
19 gms ET 2.5 versus 11 gms ET 2.0.

Chris,

About 19 grams with the aluminum inserts which are machined from bar stock. The 2.5 tubing has about the same wall thickness as the 2.0.
brucet

Richard/Dover/theKong/Frogman others.

I find this significant based on the recent damping conversations. I will have more information coming from Bruce when he has time to discuss. I feel this info will enlighten us. The only clue I have been given.

"horizontal resonance to be above 2-3Hz but at least 4 to 5Hz below the vertical resonance"



TWEAK

I have also come up with something that I believe is significant as far as sonics are concerned and requires only a one minute adjustment. This is based on only one listening session but is so easy to try I had to share it.

Loosen the end cap bolt (not the leaf spring bolt we have been discussing) just enough to lower the lead weights, so that they are positioned at the bottom half of the spindle; when looking at the arm from the gooseneck side. Once done tighten end cap again.

This increases the VTF significantly.

You will need to adjust by moving the lead farther out on the I Beam. A good thing.

Cheers

Hi theKong – answer to your question from Bruce. Thanks for that info as well Dover. Acoustats ? won't go there.

03-27-13: Thekong
As we have been discussing the pros and cons of the decoupled counterweight on the ET,
I have this question on my mind (admittedly a non-technical one) for a long time!

The ET uses leaf springs to decouple the counterweight so the arm doesn’t “see” the additional weight!
To my thinking, this can only be possible if the counterweight actually doesn’t move during the initial movement (milliseconds?) of the arm,
due to the compliance of the leaf spring.
Then, after the arm has moved for a certain range, the counterweight would need to start “rebounding” to follow the arm.

If that is true, then would it create some delayed effect that could be detrimental to the tracking?

Or is my reasoning totally false?
Thekong (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

**********************************************************

Answer from Bruce.

Chris,

The counterweight is decoupled in the horizontal plane so it only affects lateral motion of the tonearm. The counterweight always moves if the spindle is moving, it does not move at the same rate, the time constant is about 300 milliseconds. If the weight is coupled the system resonant frequency would be extremely low, a resonant frequency at 3Hz with a significant rise in response (6-12dB) results, which would affect tracking slightly because of the asymmetric position of the cantilever, we opt for splitting the horizontal resonance frequency into two points and lowering the "Q" which improves tracking. The motion of the weight is damped so that it has a low "Q" resonance with a rise in response of about 3-4dB at 3hz and 2dB at 10-11Hz, these frequencies do not coincide with the vertical resonance.
More important than tracking, the intent was to reduce the modulation effects of low frequency energy (FM and AM) that increase distortion in the cartridge, amplification chain, and especially in the speakers woofer at a few Hz. I hope this helps.

brucet

Boy I wish I had someone like Bruce for when I go into these board meetings trying to sell services to CEO’s and CFO’s. You know the ones where they bring their own in house techies to the meetings to ask questions.

Cheers

Hi Slaw – are you running an in room ET2 filter or pressure regulator ? I added a ground to the in room regulator at the suggestion of Richard. It seems to have helped. Recommend you give it a try.

Hum Story and maybe a lesson.

I am finishing the space in the adjacent basement area next to my main room. I noticed a hum coming from a certain area in the room near the ceiling by a light. Looking over I noticed a little transformer attached to the light base from the time the house was built. It was humming away – could be heard from a few feet away. I disconnected it and peace prevailed. The room is quiet now.
My wife is not too happy because I have not yet reinstalled the wire to the back of the house like I said I would. I have discovered that I like not having a doorbell, and I told her there is a “door knocker” on the door. My kids are on my side on this one. But they are also the ones too lazy to get up and see who is at the door whenever anyone shows up. Now here is something I find interesting. Of the people that come to the door. No one appears to know what the obvious “in your face” door knocker is for anymore. They knock with their knuckles instead when they discover the push button doorbell doesn’t work. We have become a pushbutton society.

My Lesson Learned.
What if you have a system on a raised main floor, and the gear is sitting in a rack, or near the ground (amp/s) a foot or two from this humming transformer just below. Only a wood floor separates them.

Dover was the noise from the silver wiring noticeable on your Final Audio or another TT ?

03-31-13: Dover
Richardkrebs re your last post.
I believe we have something in common. In the contract work I specialise in I too am totally indispensable.

Dover/Richard, in my line of work (business continuity planning) one of the key objectives of every project for the consultants is to identify and eliminate as many SPF’s as possible. Single Points of Failure. By eliminate I mean an "action plan" for management to follow in a powerpoint or similar presentation.

Richard, as an admirer of the Kuzma Airline tonearm; do you have any thoughts on Kuzma’s Top of the Line Version which comes with a
Brass Armpod

Have you ever used, experimented with a armpod ?

Cheers

No ghosts involved. Is it possible that whilst sleepwalking, on the night of.....

I suffer with this disorder called sleepwalking. I didn’t know it but my wife (bless her soul) did a personal study on me. She made we aware of the results later.

I apparently did the most sleepwalking after consuming certain amounts of red wine from downunder. Something about it having to do with certain types of proteins from that region, reacting to type C audiophiles, especially after listening to Pink Floyd - The Wall LP.

The proteins kicked in after falling asleep for 2 hours. Just enough to induce motor movement to walk around, without being conscious. It has me worried as I really like the wines from downunder and I really like that LP too.

Can you guys recommend a good cabernet sauvignon from downunder that will not break the bank and is safe ?

BTW – On another front - I understand that Canadian Ice Wines have become quite popular especially in the far east. It has come to my attention however through the media; that counterfeit Canadian ICE wines are now being made in the far east. Content questionable. Beware and be safe.

One of the above two stories is true.

http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44430

Answer to the ET1/ET2 Trivia Question.

If you select page 3 on the ebay ad and magnify the page on your screen you are able to see the text.

************************************************************

“The ET1 was introduced at Chicago CES in 1983 and Tonearm 2 followed in June 1985. About 300 ET1’s and 2000 ET2’s have been sold to date throughout the world.”

************************************************************
So at the time of this publication - 2000 ET2’s 300 ET1’s. Approximately a 6.5 – 1 ratio.

So unlike the introduction of the new "Coca-Cola" it appears based on the numbers, that the "general" audiophile public liked - and still likes the ET2 and its younger but bigger brother ET 2.5.

It would be interesting to know what the ratio is between ET 2.5 versus ET 2.0.

I am not affiliated with the ebay ad - although I admit I am tempted to bid on it - just to read the reviews and see if anyone actually explained how they setup the counterweights.

**Congratulations Frogman !**

You are the winner of the trivia contest.

Well ok ........ you were the only official entry.

Actually I did get one offline entry that came closer – but contest rules ((reads the really fine print)) stipulated the entries needed to be posted here.

Cheers

Hi Slaw – if you go back a few posts you will see in one of them that Dover introduced a new term to us - well I should say he introduced it to me.

“robust debate”

Now in my opinion only, this “robust debate” sometimes brings in conversations outside of the box.

The box here being the ET2, ET2.5 tonearm.

I have always found that thinking and talking outside of the box is generally a good thing in life.

It helps to understand how each of us arrive at our own decision points - in this hobby.

Now if I am talking gibberish and have misunderstood – wouldn’t be the first time :^(

May Dover and John47 correct me. We are all big boys here after all.

BTW - I am just as guilty for posting a bunch of stuff here that has nothing to do with the thread. The latest I believe was asking for wine recommendations. Mind you I would be consuming a good percentage of it listening to music with the ET2.

Cheers

This picture has been posted a couple times on this thread already.
This is the third time
I asked previously if anybody knew the owner.
This ET2.5 to me is a unique expression.
It represents to me individual passion and interpretation to the extreme.
When I posted a picture of Richards setup on this thread I placed it at a similar level in my mind - however.
Richards setup goes beyond as it includes a customized TT that is integral to his ET2 tonearm as well. It is one as a whole?
Whether Richard wants to run his tonearm in a rigid way or decoupled is not of concern to me.
His setup is unique and has been through many hours of trials I am sure that i can not even begin to think about. He is able to reverse changes to it and run it de-coupled if he wants.
As long as he is happy listening to music the way it is – great.

Now with that anyone that tries a rigid I Beam, likes it then adds lead dampening as well with a stock ET2 or ET2.5.

Hey - its a free world. Even if they are not aware of the parameters they are changing.

At least we have outlined the parameters here for those that read the thread so they know.

I have placed the ET2 and ET 2.5 on a direct drive, idler, belt and finally string drive TT.

On each different table the ET2 / ET2.5 sounded different.
I am willing to bet all our TT setups are different. Not one the same.

All our setups outside of the TT setups are definitely different including our rooms.

Selfishly - I would like for Dover to bring a couple of nice bottles of wine over to Richards place and have a listen to his tonearm in coupled and decoupled fashion with Richard using Dover's favourite lps.

Same room, same gear.

Then for both Richard and Dover to post separate impressions here.

That would be priceless, to me.

Cheers

Welcome to the thread Mark.

It's time we all met for a coffee.

For some reason I assumed you were from downunder, but when you said “coffee” you confused me. I expected to see flat white ?

Good things come from Downunder I have learned. We already discussed the wine.

But I was a little surprised at the Australian recommendation and not a NZ one.

Well sometimes the goose lays a golden egg in NZ.

But in this case its silver colored. And it’s not an actual egg but part of the Goose herself – the neck in this case.

We affectionately call it an ET Gooseneck here.

Just received

Sorry Mark – another ET2 mod :^(

Thank you Richard Krebs for coordinating.

Hell 643 posts on modifying a bloody tone arm!

At least we know what “this” thread is about ?

Cheers

04-27-13: Dover
.....dont be embarrassed about using spotify, I've heard spotify streamed through an Ipad.........

Dover – if you know Spotify then you would know its not available in Canada. Have never heard it. My post on that article had everything to do with music itself – regardless of format and nothing to do with the equipment. It appears my post was misunderstood by you ? and maybe others so the reason for my post.

Dover –in this picture is a mechanically grounded unipivot. Please note the way it has been setup. What do you think happens to the sound when it is set up this way ?

Here is another
example
A little more extreme ?

05-13-13: Manitunc
Is there a way to tell if I have a high pressure manifold on my ET2? Some sort of marking on the manifold, or a different size? I have a couple of different pumps, but dont want to put on a higher pressure if its going to damage something.

Hi Manitunc

***********************************************
ET 2.0 spindle is about 5/8 inch.

ET 2.5 spindle is about ¾ inch.
************************************************

from my 05/03/2013 post.

One way to tell if its a HP manifold.

So there are many ET2’s out there that have manifolds set up for really high pressures. These were custom ordered. If you want to know if you have a high pressure manifold or not. Push it out – inscribed on it will be XHP or HP. The other method is to hook it up to a compressor and start adding in PSI and see what it can take. If it came with a WISA is was meant for 5-7 psi. The original pump was in the 3 3.5 psi range.

Another way to tell.

Bruce built the manifolds for different pressures based on customer specs. If somebody bought their ET2 or ET 2.5 used and did not know the seller they don’t know what the pressure is – unless it came with the pump.

In order for the air bearing to become rigid it needs to be run at least at the PSI designed by Bruce for that specific manifold. Going over that pressure may produce sonic benefits in a persons room – IMO - this is subjective thing; based on our own room/gear synergies - just like speaker wire and interconnects – hah hah. How do you like that comment ? if a higher pressure works - great.

The original ET2’s were around 3 - 3.5 psi with the Takatsuki SPP-6GA pump.

The WISA pumps were 5-7 psi.

So Manitunc I suggest you try your arm first with the original low pressure pump first if you have it – SPP-6GA.

If it works its the original ET2 manifold. If it needs a higher pressure to work you have a HP manifold.

This applies to both ET 2.0 and ET 2.5’s.

This can be confirmed by contacting BT.

You can’t hurt it with higher PSI – in fact raising the pressure in increments will let you fix any leaks your arm may have if it has been sitting around for 10 years. You will blow off the air hose if anything.

Since we are talking about pumps - I will post how I test my ET2 pumps.

Cheers

What an extraordinary hobby this is. RK and I share this wonderful aluminum ET2 Gooseneck that he made - I really like it.

At this current (snapshot) in time however;

RK’s tonearm objective is adding more control and damping to his Krebs Arm.

I meanwhile am trying to figure out how to go wireless with my ET 2.5.

Think Free Willy !

Maybe my IT background biases are showing. With that the damping fluid should be coming early next week with the adhesive tape. Look forward to trying it again after all these years.

Welcome to the thread Spock15. Listing what your air bearing and pivot arms are would be nice to those of us reading for reference.

Thekong has provided some excellent perspective between the Rockport and ET2.

Hi TheKong – were you able to find the lead to make the counterweights at those tire shops ?

Look forward to Rugyboogie providing perspective with the Kuzma Airline and ET2 soon – Congrats on getting an ET2 - RB.

Now we need a Swedish fellow or gal :^) to come on here to help provide perspective on the Air Tangent and ET2. Maybe I will look for one (Air Tangent) to close this loop. However no remote control version for me.

As I type this Ottawa to Toronto area of Ontario experienced a 4.8 earthquake – a little shakey.

This is the story of an audiophile called Dorothy and her ET2, a tonearm she has owned for many years.

For the first few years she used a light MM cartridge and used only 2 of the 4 lead weights supplied positioned in the middle of the I beam. “It looks visually balanced better this way to me”, Dorothy said. She did have a quick skim through the ET2 manual but ....oh!..... so many pages ....some really technical “guy” must have written that for sure she thought. Anyway.....how she set it up sounded good to her... so she left it this way for a few years.

Then one day she decided to buy an MC cartridge. She noticed it was quite a bit heavier. Instead of moving the existing weight further out on the ET2 I Beam (as the ET2 manual says to do) - she put on the other two weights she had stored in her drawer all this time; so they could meet up around the middle of the I-beam again. She was after all comfortable with this middle of the I Beam positioning. “It just looks visually better balanced this way” Dorothy said. It sounded good again. She was happy.

Then later on she was reading on the internet about some ET2 owners who just couldn’t stop fiddling with their ET2’s.

"Must be all guys for sure” Dorothy thought to herself.

But she was intrigued about how they were discussing the aspect of loading up the weight on the I-Beam. They were putting more thought into it; putting just enough weight on so that the weight was at the end of the Ibeam – no matter what cartridge. Some of these guys were even crazy enough to change cartridge screw sizes to accomplish this.

“Well” she thought to herself “maybe there was a screw loose somewhere else with some of them?”

But she was intrigued ....she could resist no longer. She tried it and did what was required to get the weight out at the end of that “pirate plank” even though it did just did not look right to her.

Lo and behold more music “sprang” forward ! She said to herself “all these years I was listening to my ET2 and I was loving it; But now... well I love my ET2 even more!”

She felt good about herself.
Does this story have a lesson ?

Yes, Dorothy felt good about herself, but it wasn’t because her favorite songs sounded even better to her.... which they did; no, it wasn’t the main reason. You see Dorothy always knew that she could listen to her favorite songs anywhere; even in the car and they would always put a smile on her face. It was about the music itself after all.

No, what made her feel real good – was that she had learned something and understood more about how her ET2 actually worked. That learning and knowledge is what made her really feel good. She then said to herself “maybe I should read the ET2 manual that guy called Bruce wrote? ”

Right after thinking that another thought came into her head. “If only my boyfriend was as easy to tune as this ET2”

Dover - It would be helpful to move this thread forward if you acknowledged the issues related to adding mass and move away from using examples, maths and quotes that are irrelevant and taken out of context.

Actually guys – RK and Dover. I say this with utmost respect. I don’t know about the others here but I am personally totally glazed over with these discussions – back and forth. I would prefer you take it offline?

You see I trust my ears for sound not theory. I don’t need approval of somebody for enjoying my hobby. But as this is a public chat forum and there may be others here that like to dwell in theory I Ieave you as be - this is my opinion only.

Dover - I am really looking forward to your direct experiences again with the the ET2. Or did you get a 2.5 ?

What type of pump are you going to be using?

Dover - ...........Stereophile testing.

What review was that Dover – can you point it out please?

From the one that I read.

From the Stereophile review - "As for other cartridges, I would like to see very specific suggestions from the manufacturer as to the proper combination and location of weights for a given cartridge. The arm is now too adjustable for the consumer or dealer who does not measure low frequency resonance, and I still do not fully understand how the location of the counterweight package best interacts with a given type and compliance of cartridge."

Or to narrow it down.

The arm is now too adjustable for the consumer or dealer who does not measure low frequency resonance

Well - to me it would seem a reviewer that doesn’t trust his own ears or maybe he was rushed on time? Or maybe he should just go seeDorothy

Based on that statement Dover they didn’t even get close.

Like the review that John referenced. Some nice measurements and good reading, but no mention of weight location or how many; counterweight tuning.

IMO – this ET2 and ET2.5 can be tuned to the rest of your room/gear. But you need to live with it for a while to build a reference point. Then you can start tuning. Most audiophile friends I know have no patience.

This is a question for RK and Dover.

Have either of you used a double and/or triple leaf spring with a Low Compliance cartridge on an ET2 with the weights positioned at the end of the decoupled IBeam?

Dover - The issue I had with changing VTA on the fly is that the bearing tube can go out of level very easily when adjusting VTA. This may have been due to the fact that I used a single point ground when tightening the bolts holding the bearing to post. Whenever you loosen or tighten the pillar bolts you need to recheck the bearing tube is dead level.

An observation on running the wire on the outside of the armtube.

Running the wire in this manner allows one to disengage it; set the ET2 up without it, then add the wire and see how big the influence of the wires is on the leveling of the air bearing spindle.

Its significant.

Some of you may be throwing the level of your VTA post out dealing with the wire influence? The happy face loop going direct to the preamp has worked best for me.

Also to consider - what if your TT platter goes out of level with the changes in season – have you guys ever thought about that ? Its only a few bolts to disassemble and reassemble the ET2 to check the subplate levelling.

When the pillar is assembled the vertical bolts should imo just slightly be touching making firm contact – each side very much the same. Any significant adjustment to the screws for the air bearing spindle should be an indicator that something is out. If it is go back and fix the sub plate level and your turntable platter level.

There is one more option here. More of a bandaid but what the hell. It requires some thought ahead of time. Gather the records you intend to play - lets assume eight of them for example. Sort them by thickness - greatest thickness to the least. Go in one direction with the VTA for your listening session. It will be much smoother even if your pillar post is not perfectly level. Going back and forth on the VTA will make a wrongly setup post more noticeable.

The use of differing materials from wood to high tech options. I'll either fall flat on my face or end up with something very special.

And you will have fun and learn a lot. This is what a hobby is all about. Imo – whether the learning is happening with the music itself new/old or the equipment part – when you stop wanting to learn you start to die a slow death.

Slaw – I can share some observations in regards to TT design from my experience the last four years.

What sets my Verdier apart from other tables I own and have owned is the use of materials, an understanding of their properties and documented results from measurements that were taken. I have emailed with JC Verdier many times, he has all the information and is very open with info; just as BT is with his tonearm. BTW from pictures JC Verdier is very impressed with the ET2.5 and did not know what it was when he first saw it . The Verdier is all about decoupling with levitation. The decoupling is carried over into the spindle/platter design as the spindle is brass and the platter Aluminum.

My Jean Nantais Lenco uses a Metacrylate mat that JN bonded to the stock Lenco platter to become one. You would never know it was not part of its original design if I didn’t tell you. His plinth is meant to become one “thing” 100 pounds worth with the top plate and tonearm. The top plate holding the platter from what I see must be fixed to the plinth in a way that it is “bonded” to it as well just like the Met mat and becomes part of - for the idler resonance control. I don’t like the spindle as it fatter.

My learning/hobby TT has been the SP10MKII. I am on version ?? now :^). It sounds better with the copper platter but I fear I will screw up the servo on it due to the weight. The latest version can be seen in my virtual system.

Whoa! My testosterone runneth over. That armwand... did I miss something?

Mounted today :^) Its too hot to go outside. The CF version is in the pic too.

The Mag Wand after a couple listens.

Just thinking about it - we have talked at length here about the vertical and horizontal masses. My personal experience has been any time I can increase the vertical mass of the ET2 arm itself - it is a good thing to my ears. With that increasing the armwand weight itself also increases the ET2’s horizontal mass. So its a kind of game. You need to trust your ears.

Turning the counterweight cap down is significant in my system. I keep the weights at around 3:30 on the clock. If you don’t believe it try turning the weights up to 2:00 and see what happens to the sound using the middle of the air bearing spindle at 3:00 as a reference.

I left the MM that was on there as to change only one variable at a time. What I got was more impact, presence, aggressiveness, attack,.... weightier sounds overall.

One example Dire Straits – self titled album. Guitar plucks on Water of Love. The Bass impact on Six Blade Knife. The weightiness to the voice. This is immediately apparent and then you settle into the sound. So would more weight and attack be a good or bad thing in your own system ? Only each of us can answer that. When my teenage daughter plays our 1958 Heintzman piano - her mood - affects her play. Sometimes the piano has more attack and weight sometimes less. I have learned she is more approachable when the sound has less attack in it and the sound is more delicate and graceful.

I asked Bruce how he makes the mag wand.

Chris,

It is turned from one piece of magnesium solid bar stock. We turn the O.D., bore the I.D. and then heat the tube to 450F to form the headshell end of the tube in a die. Thank you very much.

brucet

Can someone explain to me what “turn the OD, bore the I.D.” means ?

It required one extra skinny lead weight for balancing over the Carbon Fibre armwand with lead (only) weights setup according to Dorothy.

I imagine TT designers trash many prototype materials before arriving at what they choose for their product. It should be a requirement imo, especially for some of the higher priced tables to understand the room/gear used to arrived at a turntable design.
This should be published information.

Regarding building turntables and materials used.

Here is a list of materials along with a number beside them. The number indicates the materials ability to pass thru sound (a high number) or hinder sound (a lower number).

The higher the number allows a better pass thru of sound. the lower number deadens, inhibits, absorbs.

Material Z0 [MRayls]

aluminium.........17
brass.............37
copper............42
cast iron.........37
lead..............25
magnesium.........10
steel.............45
tin...............24
tungsten..........101
araldite..........4-13
brick.............15
concrete..........7-10
glass.............10-15
granite...........27
marble............10
slate.............12
all plastics......1-4
all wood..........1-4
except cork.......0.1
carbon fibre......30

This data is informational only and was taken from this site.

http://qualia.webs.com/plinthbuilding.htm

"Another property of materials is the acoustic impedance, that is, how easily sound passes from one material to another. Nearly all the data available is concerned with supersonic frequencies of sound, typically 5 MHz, so not really useful in the audio range. However, it does suggest that getting sound from one material to another seems to be dependent on their respective acoustic impedances, easily calculated as:

Z0 = p x c where Z0 is the acoustic impedance, p is rho, for density, c is the speed of sound through the material [longitudinal wave velocity]
Some acoustic impedances of common materials: Z0 in N•s/m³ /106"

So to transfer sound from one material to another effectively may mean using materials with similar acoustic impedances, or, to hinder transfer, (as in isolation), choosing materials with very different acoustic impedances.

What about rounded edges for the plinth/armpod materials themselves over straight edge; to better deal with resonances? This is done with speakers.

Richard – interesting findings – thanks for sharing. Sorry to hear about that glass armtube. Would have liked to see a picture of that one.

Imo – the only thing an amateur (hobbyist / audiophile / music lover) can do is to keep to the golden rule.

Change only one variable at a time.

As an amateur I only need to please myself. I am selfishly in this hobby for me only. I am also my own worst enemy. I know this.

I have known amateur audio friends in the past - who seemed to want to please their friends more.

Now - if I wanted to analyze what I did and tried to put some science at it.

Going back to the post about materials ability to pass sound/resonances.

Higher number being easier to pass – lower meaning it hinders.

I went from a Carbon Fibre wrap aluminum armwand with a Teflon insert.

carbon fibre......30, all plastics......1-4, aluminium.........17

to a heavier Magnesium armwand.

magnesium.........10

everything else stayed the same.

its the elephant in the room

The Room

:^)

Hi Tim - thanks for the impressions. I look forward to learning from your experiences.

Are you familiar with our celebrity Acutex 420 str cartridge?

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1325551242&openflup&316&4#316

It has been waiting in the wings with me for some time now. I had thought the next recipient would on the other side of the world - downunder - but I have not heard back yet ?

I am aware of four separate ET2, ET2.5 projects right now. All in North America. Three in the US and one in Canada. If I had to put money on it - it appears the cartridge will be crossing the border again.
Once you are established in your setup let us know if you would like to listen to this cartridge and provide a short review for us here. The only requirement is you ship it back within 3 months so it can go to the next person. This offer is open to any ET2 user.

Cheers

Hi Frogman

the Forsell is still packed in it's boxes. I hope to be able do a shootout between it and my TNT6/ET2 before too long; will keep you posted.

Exciting shootout ahead. Brings back memories for me. Please let us know how it goes.

Actually Frogman with your knowledge of the ET2; I selfishly would like for you (if you don’t mind :^) - to drill a very small hole (no big deal) in the Forsell and mount your ET2 on it if possible. Compare your ET2 to the Forsell tonearm - on its own home turf. Sort of like vinyls version of “mano a mano” ?
My ET2.5 reached new sonic levels with me once it went onto a table that does not require the thrust bearing. Bearing resonance is real and they (bearings) impart their sound on tables I have owned. Anyone that has tried different bearings and lubricants with their tables know this. Thicker lubricants slow and dull the the music; thinner oil makes it leaner but it loses texture. My JN Lenco bearing is self lubricating. So I was aware of the bearings impact on the sound; but it did not hit home to me until I used a table that had no bearing.
I am willing to bet 100 Canadian Loonies that the Forsell will forse (sic) you to convert the TNT to thread. :^)
Cheers

Frogman - I may just do that; would be the only fair comparison of the two arms

That is a review of impressions I would be willing to cough up some coin to read.

something a little different - I came across this.

The man behind this thread. Scroll down to the bottom for a picture of Bruce. His rotary woofer is the only loudspeaker in the world that can reproduce the sound of Niagara Falls accurately.

Falls Fury Rotary woofer

RK - but it is very noisy and does not pass your stylus on a stationary record test.

...the old dreaded stylus on a stationary record test with the system volume knob cranked to hear turbulence and hum test.....

Air Bearing linear trackers everywhere that depend on clean consistent air delivery cringe at the thought of owners subjecting them to this test.
Its bad enough if they have not been set up to operate in a straight line evenly. But being subjected to a partner pump that is not so great is un-imaginable.

Some of the worst arm/pump relationships I have heard of don't even relate to the quality of the pump itself but its placement. There are some owners in the southern US where winter does not exist. These owners place compressors in their garage (not climate controlled) with a long line going to where their stereo is in a nice climate controlled room kept at 72 degrees F. The garage where the compressors starts air delivery can be anywhere from 30-40 F in the winter at night to well over 150 degrees inside the closed barn on a hot summer day with wildly differing humidity. Imagine the changes to the air as it travels down 100 feet of tubing.

RK - I will do the compliant CW arm and spring test once the proper compressor arrives.

I look forward to your impressions Richard.

Frogman - I think the arm simply sounds better with moderate and similar torque at all the screws. I adjust the VTA adjustment screws so that the adjustment can still be made without loosening the screws; but with some effort

Based on the years with mine I think this is really good advice Frogman.

Frogman - VTA adjustment on the fly is, for me, THE most important feature of the ET2. I find it invaluable and use it all the time.

I agree plus the fact it tracks in a straightline.

In the early days I was trying to figure the arm out and did not even notice how Bruce designed the VTA system in the ET2.
I was ignorant to it. How many ET2 owners are not aware (or take it for granted, not notice) that the VTA system is on a gearing system? The ET2 VTA cylinder mechanism (for lack of a better word) pulls the armtube in as you raise VTA and back out when you lower VTA. So it maintains the VTF and alignment.

I just tried this again with my Dynavector tonearm the other day. Lowering VTA increases VTF. Raising VTA lowers VTF. Some are really anal about how they set VTF on their tonearms. Just be aware you are affecting your VTF.

three opportunities to get into the game with an ET2.

I started my ET2 adventure with a HW19MKIV over 10 years ago

1st one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271298811085&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:CA:3160

33 watchers - anyone here ?

2nd one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VPI-HW19-Turntable-w-Eminent-Technology-2-Arm-/271288466675?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3f2a0d7cf3

An one here at audiogon.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tonearms-eminent-technology-et2-tonearm-with-extra-wands-pumps-jig-obm-2013-10-05-analog-94611

Just sharing - not affiliated with any of them.
Ebay bidding can be alot of fun - when you are not bidding.

On another note.

I found these comments from Johnathan Carr on the SRA thread interesting.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1379522903&openflup&118&4#118

Cheers

Cheers

Manitunc

Oh, lord, got two more et2s.

Oh - lordy - lordy - lordy - lordy - lordy - you now have five.

Maybe one will be a 2.5 with the high pressure manifold.

A dear friend of mine has 3 young children - all girls. But wanted at least one boy.

They tried one more time even though times are tough.

The next one was a boy. So Four kids.

He next had done to him what they did to his dog :^0 - so no more kids.

I hope you get a 2.5 in one of the two coming to you.

Otherwise Bruce can act like the stork and miraculously bring you a 2.5.

You just need to send him one of your ET 2's as a donor.

He can even customize it to run at the pressure you desire.

Now you can maybe sell Richard one of your extra Mag wands that he desires ?

Me thinks you like this ET2 Manitunc ?

Is it possible to tell us in a few words what made you buy 5 ?

am I now entering another world of obsessive complusive behaviour

LOL - imo its never OCD when you are actually changing the laws of physics and are able to hear it in your room. Vinyl is an electro mechanical vibration resonance hobby.

Try this test Manitunc and anyone else.

Fetch a white plastic juice or other fluid container from your recycling bin.
Using a flat side cut a small piece of plastic out - a little smaller than your leaf spring on the I beam.
Now insert it into the gap where the leaf spring is, making the I Beam more rigid.
Now play a few really familiar records. Do you hear any difference in your room as far as sonics go.
If no change carry on with life as normal.
If you do hear a change and don't care; carry on with life as normal again.
If you do hear a change and are a little curious - do this proper as it costs only a couple of dollars.
Have Bruce send you a couple I beams and loose springs to make into a double and triple I Beam so you have one of each to try with your cartridge or cartridges.

Manitunc have a closer look at all those I Beams you now have. You may see in fact two springs glued together already.
Some may have a small square damper on them while others may be just one naked spring glued in.

What PSI does the ET 2.5 run at?

Ask the person you bought it from what PSI Bruce set it up for. Hopefully he will know.

Cheers