Richard, et al. fyi - Bruce' opinion on PSI changes versus Quality Air Supply. I didn't want to interrupt Bruce' Elephant hearing study so I kept my question short. Bruce
If a friend made a significant change to the air delivery system on his ET2 and this caused audible changes like soundstage and other audiophile type attributes, attack, decay, to change .... do you have an opinion re: PSI changes versus the Air Supply itself. More than air pressure, the air supply will change the sound of the tonearm if it is bad, allowing pressure pulsations to enter the manifold. Increasing pressure slightly and a big enough surge tank are the best things that could be added to the tonearm in terms of performance. Not knowing anything about the pump changes, I don't have much to offer. Thank you and I apologize for the delay in getting back to you.
brucet key words to me "increasing pressure slightly" and "big enough surge tank" This applies to unmodified ET2.0 and ET 2.5 |
It is probably difficult to compare oil trough settings. I am using a different oil and different paddle at the other end of the spindle. Further I have a fixed CW which means that the physics of the arm are quite different. All good points Richard. Again too many variables. In conversation with Bruce last year I remember him saying the position of the trough was decided out of convenience. I think it can be reversed. I say this because my spare stock gooseneck has a hole marked in the bottom - for the paddle?.... Has anyone tried this ? |
Hi Richard, there is continued interest in the Aluminum ET2 GooseneckReceived two recent emails, the latest this week from an Audiogon member on this ET2 thread asking about the possibility of doing a limited run on them. I will pm you with more details. Posting here to let those that expressed previous interest in the Gooseneck aware. I will post any updated info here. Cheers Chris |
Now days to get a part machined in my shop I need a CAD drawing at $150/hour to produce. A CAM program at $150/ hour to produce. Machining itself at $450/hour, plus material which actually is the smallest cost of the lot. Very Interesting numbers Richard, thanks for sharing. The numbers reminded me of my former job. If I can digress for a bit and share something - for a different perspective. The company I used to work for charged me out to clients as a project manager at a straight $225 US an hour. A senior consultant was $180 and a consultant $125. A typical work project budget would be based on a respective 10, 20, 70 percentage workload split with myself managing 10 or more projects. (And my wife still wonders why I don't want to go back to work). For this you got electronic and paper plans that you hoped you would never have to use. Mostly theory based but did include one practice run through at the end. Imagine that. Hard to believe for me now. Nothing really tangible. The employee skills gained during the project to use the plans eroded with with company turnover. Anyway. Some observations aluminum versus stock gooseneck. The aluminum gooseneck combined with the heaviest mag armwand has taken the resonances for my modded 2.5 tonearm into MC only territory now (based on my ears) which is ok with me. I have a couple of MC cartridges I really like. Whether this is more the mag wand influence over the aluminum gooseneck I can't say. They came to me at roughly the same time period. I do sense it is more the mag wands influence, as it was designed for low compliance MC cartridges by Bruce so things do kind of add up to what I am hearing. As you are an MC user Richard I highly recommend acquiring a mag wand if one becomes available to try out. In contrast - our cracker jack box cartridge MM 420str discussed here sounds quite strident now on the 2.5 with the 420's higher compliance. But the 420 sounded great before on the 2.5 with Carbon Fibre armwand and stock gooseneck; and it still does sound great on my second ET2 with stock gooseneck and aluminum armwand. So what this tells me when looking at improvements and upgrades with vinyl, is there are no absolutes, generalizations can't be made, and whether something is an improvement will depend on each person's individual situation as our audio kit setup and preferences and goals are all different. One more observation. The aluminum gooseneck is as you say set at the midpoint level of adjustment. From a stylus adjustment point of view, if someone likes playing with a lot of cartridges, we can partially blame the MM thread for some of this behavior ?, you could very likely have someone who has a few cartridges hooked up to 2 or 3 armwands ready to interchange; the three armwand stylus level settings on the stock gooseneck comes in very very handy, with the different size/length cartridge bodies and styluses. The three adjustments allow the midpoint inscribed line on the manifold to stay constant and level with the record surface for wow and flutter control. I don't have problems with multiple cartridges (I have problems in other areas) so setting up one cartridge for an extended length of time and dialing it in with the aluminum gooseneck works really well with me and l really like it. Feel lucky to have it and wanted to spread the joy if possible. If someone reading this can help us out please chime in. The person I referred to earlier has a friend machinist, so the actual machinist cost (highest numnber) could be contained. But he needs the CAD drawing. Just a note as well that the stock ET2 gooseneck is made up of two parts. Aluminum on the armwand side and carbon fibre on the air bearing spindle side. Cheers |
Hi Leon-Krige - welcome to the thread. I've just bought a used ET 2 arm with an old Goldmund Studio (which I'm restoring to look like new, it was damaged badly) Was the ET2 tonearm damaged as well ? I've bought a 50 litre compressor to run the arm, but this is all brand new to me, any other advice would be most welcome. The base ET2 needs just 3 psi to work. Did the package you bought come with the standard pump to work with first just to get up and running? VdHul MC10I've had great success & many years of pleasure from Goldmund Studietto with VdHul MC 10, so I'm tempted by the Colibri XPM or similar as there are special deals on offer, but I've read many conflicting reports & warnings against Colibri on a linear tracking arm.
Its the best sounding modern cartridge I've heard, but very high risk, I can only afford one cartridge which should last for many years, so really can't make a mistake on this. My old MC 10 has been retipped once, still sounds stunning after 27 years... thats what I'm hoping for on ET 2. The VdHul MC 10 looks identical to my Benz Micro MC3 that I have used for many years in the ET2, ET 2.5. The ET tonearm is unique in design, and setup requirements and this includes other linear trackers. It has a patented VTA system. There will be a learning curve with it. For this reason initially I would use a cartridge that mistakes can be made on. Everybody needs to walk first with an ET2 before you can run. There are no exceptions to this. Once running however you don't look back. This has been my personal experience and those I know that use the ET 2.0 or ET 2.5. Regarding conflicting reports & warnings against a Colibri on a linear tracking arm - you hear alot of 'stuff" on the internet. I am interested in seeing some of these reports. We can help you debug them. Get the facts and weed out the myths and audiophile heresay. Feel free to share links or any information. At the high level view my opinion is unless the author provides specifics I always ignore these reports. I feel with most people who are genuine with no agenda; if they have had a good or bad personal experience, they are willing to share details with others and try to help them. ColibriTechnical Data: Stylus Shape: VDH - IS Stylus Radii: 2 x 85 Micron Frequency Range: 5 - 65.000 Hz Tracking Force: 13.5 - 15 mN Static Compliance: 35 Micron/mN Tracking Ability at 15mN at 315Hz: 70 Micron Channel Unbalance: < 0.5 dB Channel Separation at 1kHz / 10kHz: > 35 / > 30 dB Equivalent Stylus Tip Mass: 0.24 Milligram Vertical Tracking Angle : 22 Degrees fwiw - I have used a sonus blue gold cartridge loaded at .3 vtf with the ET2. It has a compliance rating of 50 with no issues. I also use an XV1 at 10 x 10-6 cm/dyn. Please skim through the ET2 manual. Key parts of the manual to me. Page 28 - for proper counterweight setup Page 39 - cleaning the air bearing (especially if bought used) Page 46 and onward - Advanced tonearm/vinyl info. Antiskating and Frequency Modulation Distortion A must read for anyone serious about their vinyl setup. Hoepfully this info is helpful to start. Cheers Chris |
Just to add imo the Achilles heel for the ET2 is documented quite clearly in the manual on page 47 by Bruce. "If you like to play severely eccentric records, ones with run out greater than 1/8th of an inch, then we suggest you use a low mass pivoted arm.” My experiences is the ET2 is not limited by the cartridge, but the record itself, and the wiring positioning. I can't imagine anyone at this level of vinyl play using eccentric records with expensive cartridges ? |
Hi Leon_Krige (LK) sorry for the long post. PS: Not fixed on the Colibri, but it sounded incredible on a friends Dynavector tonearm, despite his warnings that the cantilever angle is not aligned with the cartridge, is difficult to set up, & apparently it swerves very far out on its path playing on linear tracking arms. (from Vusi Khumalo who has posted some well informed threads on this forum) thanks for that info. very interesting. Sounds like an intoxicated cartridge that can't walk the fine straight line needed for a linear tracker - a line that can be anywhere on an LP. Improper setup on a linear arm results in a walk that may start ok at the outside grooves but is off at the end. Or its off at the start and ends up on the line on the inner grooves. This is all due to incorrect setup - user error. This is why it is important to do 3 measurements - at the outer grooves, middle and inner grooves. But I've never heard of one when setup properly "swerves very far out on its path" A cartridge like this if it were "really true" would be of little use to me regardless of its discount; or maybe its just me and the result of having too many beers with the bears this summer. I am just not getting this swerve out part. Never heard of a cartridge exhibiting this kind of behavior. Its true there is no place to hide with a linear tracker. If its out you will know. This is not the case with a pivot arm where from most people I have talked to, only a small percentage can actually hear the two spots on records that their cartridge is actually in the sweetspot; the other times not. I remember this was audible with my dynavector arm in my main room and I believe I discussed this on my virtual page blog. So if someone can't hear it thats good. Of my more recent pivot arms in my rooms I found the Dynavector the most neutral (compared to MTC's) with the JMW12 and FR64s both producing bass bumps (assuming a LF resonance). I also recall in my room 2 requiring two different sub settings with the Quad 57 on full range material. One for the FR64s and one for the DV505. Here is the culpritAnd here is a Colibri threadInteresting comments from that thread... and yes, on some pressings wonderful, others it was not happy and edgy. Some have cantilevers that are not parallel to the body, and they dont have the same height and VTA. The question I have is were the pressing that sounded wonderful and others not happy and edgy cut at the same plant, same way ? Some info for consideration. Page. 56 ET2 manual. Conclusions 1) Not all cartridges will be improved by using them at some angle other than the intended design angle. (The top of the cartridge parallel to the surface of a record) 2) The European record vertical cutting angle standard closely matches the vertical angles present in phono cartridges today. There is a need for a universal record cutting standard which closely matches this. 3) If the measuring vertical tracking angle of a cartridge is high (greater than 22 degrees) its vertical performance will probably be improved by tilting it back (2 or 3 degrees) (front goes up) to match present vertical angles on records. 4)If the measured vertical tracking angle of a cartridge is 18 to 20 degrees. It will probably perform best when its top is mounted parallel to the surface of the record. 5)Some cartridges are very sensitive to small changes in VTA, others are not. Page 51 - discusses how most records are cut between 16 and 20 degrees. Seems the Colibri from its specs at 22 degrees falls into points 3 and 5 ? When records are cut differently we can hear this on resolving systems. And we have discussed this here a number of times. When VTA adjustments are made we know its a good thing to have a tonearm that will not any change parameters like VTF and keep things intact. When two audio friends change the VTA on their Kuzma Airline - the VTF changes. this was confirmed. Its physics. Now lets ask ourselves - what is going to happen when you play with the VTA on a cartridge like the Colibri that is revealing, needs fantastic alignment to start of with; and it needs to keep it there. You need a tonearm that changes no parameters. imo - there is a reason the VTA on the ET2 is patented. Bruce happens to be a good business person. fwiw - from an alignment (NOT COST) point of view this applies imo to our cracker jack cartridge 420 str as well. Have a look at its stylus next to its brother and sisterThe one on the right - is the top sibling- very revealing - can be a real PITA, if not set up properly or your tonearm, or your tonearm changes parameters when you adjust VTA. It is affected by point 5 imo. Try this experiment. Get a long permanent marker. two pieces of different height wood and a piece of paper. Place paper on table, the lower of the two wood pieces on the paper. make a line where it rests on the inside. Hold the marker loosely in your hand between the thumb and index finger and rest it on the lowest of the pieces of wood. Bring the marker down slowly so it makes a spot on the paper. With the outline of the previous wood clearly visible, put the higher wood piece down. Repeat the exercise and place the marker down again. The marker makes a spot in a different location. It will be closer to your hand and the marker is at different angle as well. If you could weigh the weight of the marker on the paper, it would be lighter with the higher elevated piece of wood. How do I know this? Because I tried I tried this test with every pivot arm I have ever owned. You can't defeat physics. I find it interesting that the only thing I currently own that was made by VanDenHul is the stock factory silver wiring inside my main speakers. I may also have an old ET2 wire loom with his wire. I just can't afford a mistake, single dad, university teacher, not a stockbroker! :^) LK My job has taken me to many different fields of work and I have had to interview the folks who make those industries, companies, organizations tick and can't be without if something happened. Stockbrokers were the least generous with their time and very selfish overall about what they do. Like trying to get blood from a stone. Teachers were always very forthcoming with info and also showed a real need to want to give us the best info to help the students. I am curious to know how well the previous owner mounted the ET2 on your table (especially if you are going to consider mounting a Colibri). Do you get good alignment on the line for the outside, middle and inside grooves. Also how well is the VTA worm gear working. It should be smooth and remain level when raising and lowering. The lever firmness can be adjusted. You strike me as the type that is going to have a lot of fun learning with the ET2. This means I am probably going to be learning from you too. So I look really look forward to your progress. Pls keep us updated. I am off to go meet up with some bear friends. Richard if you see this I have decided to wear the bell this year when I run. Cheers |
I'd like to increase the bidding to 150 Brooklyn squirrels..... Frogman - I'm confused by your bid. I offered - 100 Canadian Loonies. real moneyYou offered 150 Brooklyn squirrels ? Now I have to confess growing up as a kid I was influenced by the American tv show Rocky and Bullwinkle. "Rocky" being a flying squirrel. So I would have issue with this squirrel delicacy you speak of.... even though I do seem to get a real kick out of of Duck Dynasty. |
For the tonearm collector An ET1btw - interesting tonearms on the table this seller has the ET1 mounted on. For the Music Lover Base ET2 Low PressureRight here at Audiogon. Just remember, if last weeks posts have not made it clear; as with any musical instrument, lessons are recommended with the ET2 :^) (in my previous post memorized should read mesmerized) :^( |
Hello Pegasus Two posts that imo generate very good thought. I need to first say that ever since this ET2 thread started I get a special feeling in my gut whenever a long term ET2 owner posts in this thread for the first time. Especially when it is his first post on audiogon. Remember how this thread started - "Where are you guys ?" IMO - anyone that has owned ET2(.5) for a significant period of time, has been through a huge RE:LEARNING process with their records and how to play them, especially if your main tonearm before was a pivot arm. So welcome to this thread which I now see is about to touch 1/2 million views soon. Who knew ? When you say The main signal is cut laterally, one can safely assume that if there are very low frequencies on an LP it is cut *laterally*. The main disturbance laterallyis off-center records (0.55 Hz).
The off-phase info is cut vertically. The off-phae low frequency part is not doing anything helpful in normal rooms, so usually the LF signal below ca. 100Hz is blended to mono.
The normal warp & rumble zone is usually quoted between 2 to 5Hz - it leads basically to vertical accelerations. If one assumes that there are no important signals to be traced below 20 Hz or even below 50Hz (because the big excursions involved in low freq. creates problems for the cutting head *and* the cartridge. And because even in big listening rooms it is difficult to reproduce phase differences in LF) one places the optimal *vertical* resonance frequency between 5 and 20, or more radically even below 5 and 50Hz.
-> Vertical optimum is around SQR(5x20)=10 Hz or even SQR(5x50)=21 Hz
(so long so good, so often heard).
Horizontally there is a main disturbance at 0.55Hz (33.333rpm/60"), maybe 0.75 Hz (45rpm/60"). But there is a good reason to extend extraction of musical information like ELF reverb etc. down to at least 5Hz - if possible. Cutting and manufacturing LPs has several modes of creating vertical disturbances but only one or two horizontal issues: Off-center records (which actually could and should be corrected) and horizontal bumps on the cutting lathe - rare (but I have one such record in thousands of LPs).
So there is a moderate, but constant excitation/acceleration on 0.55Hz (basically correctable) and a useful extended LF range down to 5Hz which leads
to an
-> optimal horizontal res. frequency of SQR(0.75 * 5) = 2 Hz It is my understanding that bass below 100 hz is mono as well. Your comments make me curious whether you have been involved in the lp engineering/mastering side at all ? Do you still own the ET1 ? The decoupled counterweight of the ET 2 gives simply more freedom with problematic pairings of cartridge, arm and off-center records. Maybe, when it is not necessary, blocking the decoupling could have advantages sound-wise. A profound thought that IMO can only come from a long time owner with direct experiences. Indeed the ET2(.5) can accept all cartridges I have thrown at them so far, From extreme high compliance Sonus Blue Gold to the XV1 although the 2.5 by design is happier with heavier MC's. The problem is learning how to use the counterweight/springs does take time and patience. I am past the swapping of cartridges stage and have now settled in and just love listening to my music. BTW in my experience it is extremely important to have both the platter and arm *extremely* well levelled in the horizontal plane. Side-forces on the cartridge cantilever lead to plummy bass. Probably because a variable pull with varying tracking friction on a laterally deplaced cantilever gives dynamically varying side forces - which might energize the horizontal resonance. It sure is very audible. In my setup it is important to check regularly, floating the arm with two equal blobs of Blue-Tak on both sides of the arm, one at the backside of the arm, the other on the counterweight. Agree, in fact Bruce should have shipped ET2 (.5) all out with a pack of Blue-Tak. For me it is the audio wonder tweak. It holds, it dampens, it can even clean your stylus.... Cheers |
CT0517 - For me it is the audio wonder tweak. It holds, it dampens, it can even clean your stylus.... Blue-Tak audiophile tip # 115. Put a very small touch of Blue-Tak on your "audiophile" screwdriver tip. You know the one with the Cocobolo handle that is used to put the cartridges on and take them off. Presto ! you will never lose another screw in the carpet. Your wife will never hear you utter the words " Damn ! I just lost one of the screws, and now only have one like that one left ..they were a special one of kind pair buy from xxxx ". To this very day I am too scared to vacuum in the immediate vicinity of my analog rig for fear of hearing tinkle, tinkle, tinkle, tinkle, in the vacuum cleaner dirt holder. Screws from years past. I think there is a couple ET2 leaf springs down there too :^( |
Frogman - I discovered the benefits of simply mulching the leaves with my riding mower. Frogman, being the accomplished musician you are, I am having a hard time visualizing you on the back of a John Deere. this is most likely due to my own biases/prejudices. Do you wear audiophile approved ear plugs ? I highly recommend these ones. these ones - click meThese are easy to insert in any size ear canal and they work well. Not affiliated with this manufacturer. Frogman - The instrument will sound (and certainly feel to the player) more tonally coherent and with a more "right" timbre (which will affect even the perceived intonation (!)) if all the springs (upwards of twenty) have the same or similar tension. Is getting all springs with similar tension a routine task... and do some manufacturers of an instrument like the Saxophone make this easier to do than others ? Curious.. Speaking of biases. Two of my uncles played the different saxes, clarinet and flute. One of them happened to also be the music teacher at my middle school. In Grade 6 or 7 ?, I got handed this instrument by him with a bunch of piping. I was told to go learn it as the first performance was in 4 weeks for the band. At the time I remember thinking, this thing sure wasn't as cool as the trumpet, sax, or drums. It was the trombone. So I learned everything about the Bass Clef with it. Little did I know that the years that followed playing it, would influence my biases toward music from that point forward, still to today. I tend to put a bias on bass, whether live, amplified or not, and when I listen at home to full range material, I am therefore of the opinion that if you can get the bass right in a room, the rest will fall into place. More to follow on bass management... I need to go rake up some leaves. |
I remember this vividly, my mother saying to my Uncle Music Teacher while shaking her head. ...
"why in the world would you allow him to have an instrument that requires him to empty out his spit on my clean hardwood floors when he plays the instrument at home"
The floors in the school music room were disgusting. When you arrived for class you grabbed one of the mouthpieces that were in a small plastic tub sitting in some clear liquid. God only knows what that liquid was now thinking about it. The good ole days ? We survived. Now everyone is paranoid about everything. Different world not so long ago.
Uncle Music Teacher in response to my mom "should I have given him the drums ?"
Mom shakes her head..again. |
Hi Tim
regarding the "wedgie" :^) - A while back I did put one piece of Oak temporarily on the counterweight side to hold up the just installed damping trough. To allow the adhesive to set. One loses functionality of the VTA when you do that.
I found big differences between ET 2.0 (.5) mounted on
1) Wood plinth with the aluminum plate - in this case my own plinth birch/plywood (70 lbs), and the Jean Nantais plinth 100 lbs.
2) Acrylic or some other hard material that required use of the aluminum plate to keep it from marring the surface.
3) Mounted naked without the plate - Metal spikes direct on aluminum, brass, other similar material.
1 is the worst by far, and 3 is the best - to my ears. Also I can grab the manifold and move the Verdier table on its pneumatic suspension with it and not cause a shift. Its very firm. On the Jean Nantais table the armboards are replaceable and like the motor/platter mounts are separated from the main plinth with a void (air space)by design. The next step for me was to try a different material armboard with the ET2. Add this to the project bucket list.
Imo - the aluminum plate was a business decision by Bruce (a good one) to allow mounting on different tables. Most VPI tables had acrylic plinths so would fall within (2) above. The spikes could be filed down in this case to allow for direct mounting. I am curious if you are still using a VPI Classic with the wooden plinth and plate ? Good that the wedgies worked for you and you are happy with it.
Also regarding the VTA which the wedgie defeats. On the general analog forums here there are obviously two camps with those that like to play around with VTA alot and those that just set it at the "middle gound" and "forgetaboutit". This is true with the ET2 as well. Some have even removed the spike system and locked/tightened the VTA down so it can not be used. The post from Banquo363 earlier in this thread of the ET2 he bought was an example of this.
My 2 cents.
Cheers |
Pegasus - I call my baritone sax my personal distillery. Like Frogman and a few others here you certainly have a way with words ! Frogman - Actually, my tractor is a Husqvarna GT48XLS Frogman - you own one really sweet machine! I am a fan of Husq. I happen to own an "old" 20 inch Husq. chainsaw. It was bought used from a Logger back around '92 where our summer retreat is for $250.00. If you can just imagine what "used" means coming from a Logger... :^)...... but doesn't it still run smooth, and it has saved me a few times as the last kilometer into our place can be best defined as a good "Loggers" road through steep terrain and forest. You never know what is lurking round the corner after a bad storm. Frogman - I find the visceral experience of dirt, gasoline fumes and engaging that rear-wheel-differential a welcome change of pace :-) Frogman - A friend from up north sent me this video two days ago. How to load a Bobcat...Where else but here, will you see a cool tractor video.... some good physics happening there like with vinyl. And now a Ray Anderson Interlude..
Pegasus - Re: Trombone - The instrument is extremely powerful in a seductive way, a lot of colors and expressive
The middle/high school years can be very expressive but also impressionable. I wish the girls back then in my class saw the trombone as more seductive ! |
I also have the table mounted on Stillpoint Ultra SS's and one of them is on top of the arm mount. I taped the hole with 1/4 20 and screwed the Ulra into the mount. cool - Tim this is the type of modded setup a picture would be great with, maybe in your virtual page? Anyway I'd like to see it and am sure others would too. My comments apply to Pegasus' ET 2.5 set up as well. btw - I discovered that the Audiogon virtual system is a separate database from the forums. How I know this, is you can link a pic from your virtual system into a thread like this one. Go ahead and delete the pic from your virtual system. The link with pic will remain in the thread. Cheers Chris |
you´re a man of humour Dear Harold, et al I have always believed but the last two years have solidified my belief, that lurking in the belly of every seasoned audiophile is a comedian waiting to bust out. Every seasoned audiophile, if he/she took a good look at themselves, is carrying enough material/stories with them to allow them to do stand up comedy in countless shows for years. However lets think about two scenarios. Would a seasoned stand up comic get a better reaction from an audience of serious audiophiles or an audience of serious music lovers? 10-23-14: Harold-not-the-barrel
Adjusting and running an air bearing tonearm needs lots of humour. I am tempted now and again to join the party and provide my thoughts whenever I read yet "another" thread on how to "really" properly Align, or set Anti Skating on a Pivot arm. But the little voice inside says "Don't go back in there man, you made it out !" The key to leveling and lining up an air bearing linear tracker is to do it when the bottle of your choice is still un-opened. As you know the road is clear and straight. There are no curves with two markers hiding along the road that you need to make sure you visit along the way. :^) This reminds of the time before kids and marriage when I used to go out with my buddies. (lol) Afterwards some were able to walk the straight line better than others. When my previous company shut down our Canadian group 2 1/2 years ago, it was a wake up call; but as I was in shock, I did not wake up from the event till 6 months after. It was the most serious of jobs to imagine what I used to do. No humor serious stuff. Now I can't get enough of Comedy Festivals, sometimes laughing uncontrollably. My family gets concerned sometimes at this behavior and they say - "Dad why don't you go listen to some music".... Wow.... can life get any better than this ? All is not great however..you see in my subconscious, I think there may be a desire to become a comic one day, but I hit a big road block recently. I have discovered that my wife is funnier than me. And why am I surprised? As I sit there memorized, in a trance like state by the reproduction of my favorite singer, group / band's music in my room, unable to move, she has been observing all of this from THE OUTSIDE IN God only knows the stories she could tell. btw - that pic is still the best definition of Nearfield that I have ever seen anywhere. From one linear guy to another. Cheers Chris |
project time management reporting
the previous post took another 40 mins.
First 20 mins to think it up, type it, push submit (all while being distracted by a puppy that seems to want to chew my leg leg off if he doesn't get 100 % attention)
another 20 mins for the system to return a successful post message. maybe some system maintenance ? maybe a little bit of audiophile exaggeration. |
Frogman - I think this the 4 th time you have made me spit up coffee on my keyboard. Q: How can one tell that the floor of the stage is level?
A: The viola player is drooling out of both sides of his mouth. What happens to the poor guy when the stage is tilted back a bit ? maybe I don't want to know... |
*** YELLOW STICKY FOR ET2 THREAD MARK - AIR SUPPLY *** A series of posts to help me and others find stuff here - just working with the system ! This one focused on Air Supply/Manifold/Air Bearing Spindle ET2.0 (.5) Motto Better the air supply "AT THE PSI AS DESIGNED FOR THE MANIFOLD IN USE" and the ET 2.0 (.5) just keeps sounding better. Bruce Thigpen
More than air pressure, the air supply will change the sound of the tonearm. if it is bad, allowing pressure pulsations to enter the manifold. Increasing pressure slightly and a big enough surge tank are the best things that could be added to the tonearm in terms of performance. Firstly let me say I believe Bruce has created a real monster with this air bearing manifold/spindle design. Truly excellent results with a stock setup for music lovers to enjoy their records at 3 psi with the base ET2. This can be the end of the story, and it is for most. That's real life. Lets recognize this for a moment before non-ET2 readers here think all ET2'ers are like us. I am sure in the thread views that there are many ET2'ers who have been enjoying their records in stock ET2 setup for years, that get quite the chuckle every now and then here with our adventures. Cool...enjoy..... I hope they approve of Dorothy. Boy I am mellowing as I age.... Unfortunately the changes with improvement of air supply is very addictive. I went personally through 6 pump systems. I am very very happy to report that I am a music lover again and pleased with what I am hearing. But its funny that all those experiments even though years ago are still fresh in my mind. We have all heard about Audiophiles going down deep rabbit holes with tweaks. Well this is about air lifting the music up to the ...... (use your own word to describe) So some ET2 Secrets revealed. I dug up a few emails with Bruce relating to Air Supply delivery that explain the above better - hopefully this is helpful, informative and illuminating to everyone. Maybe grab a coffee or "other" drink before reading. All emails cut down for brevity. This first one I asked just yesterday - RK's post inspired me. The others are from early this year and previous years.
ME
Hello Bruce - assuming a setup like this.
pump /surge tank --- 100 feet of air line ---- ET2
Is it not better to have the moisture /dirt trap plus a second regulator as close to the ET2 for air supply quality ?
Chris,
I would put the pressure gauge/filter within 5 feet of the tonearm only so I could monitor the input pressure and the quality of the filter. After the air travels through a long length of small diameter air line the flow should be very smooth. To verify if the air flow is smooth, listen to the output of the air hose, if you hear any humming in the air flow then it is not a good air supply.
- brucet
ME
If we use my ET 2.5 as an example that you set up specifically for 19 psi which is your optimum design setting for your tonearm. A continuous 19 psi air flow is sent in. Can we assume the spindle uses all 19 psi to work optimally (or is it a percentage of this amount)
Bruce
The manifold is optimized for the design pressure, the pressure at the surface of the spindle is a percentage of the inlet measurement, this is by design. The ET2 uses roughly half of the air to allow the spindle to work properly ? The supporting force is the surface area of the bearing times the pressure at the surface of the bearing
ME
So allowing air to escape around the edges of the manifold as more is pumped in ? is this a captured air bearing system ?
Bruce
Yes it is captured.
ME
Hi Bruce - so to be clear - for example in the normal design of the base ET2 at 3 psi.
Air continually goes in at 3 psi - circles the spindle "captured bearing" and escapes out the sides of the manifold, as more air is pumped in? This is by design.
Bruce
correct
ME
If someone has a 20 year old stock ET2 manifold designed for about 3 psi and decides to pump in 12-15 or more PSI
the extra air will just escape around the edges of the manifold and at a rate that can be heard ?
Bruce
The extra air will escape, but the rate of escape will not be that large from an operational point of view, but the escaping air is usually audible which causes one problem and the air can cause a push back at the extremes of travel.
So there you have it. The ET 2.0 (.5) design is meant to bleed around the manifold. Now what happens then if someone mods their arm and adds shims to the ends of the manifold as has been discussed here ? Does this not block the air from bleeding as designed? IMO this would change the design substantially. This would also mean that any observations in regards to changes to air supply, most likely will apply to that setup only, and not a stock ET2 manifold setup ? I have not added shims and am just visualizing this. This is my opinion and I don't feel I need to ask Bruce on this one. Does anyone disagree ? Richard I bring this up as you are using shims ? Another Fact revealed. This one is on page 3 of the manual. . From Manual - Page 3
The large surface area of the air bearing uses some of the tightest tolerances in tonearm manufacturing today, and is much more rigid at audio frequencies than metal bearings. Whenever I read that someone increased the PSI and it sounded better, some "Audiophiles" would say the bearing is not rigid. THIS IS TOTAL NONSENSE. It is not that the bearing is not rigid; its because by happening to increase the PSI with the pump in question, the user actually bettered the air supply coming in, with that respective pump. How many of us are pump experts ? How much do you really know about your pump? if that person had used a better pump same PSI the sonics would have also improved. Its about better air supply. My Pump - Timeter Aridyne Compressor How Aridyne’s Dry Compressed Air Movement Works This is what happens when I flick the switch. First, air is drawn through the air pump inlet filter. Then it is pulled into the pump where the pistons pressurize it to 80 psi and push it forward through the Teflon® lined high pressure hose that is reinforced with braided stainless steel. At this point the temperature of the compressed air is approximately 300 F. Then compressed air flows through the copper coils where it is cooled to room temperature. During cooling, moisture in the air begins to condense. The cooled air moves to the water trap where the condensation is rained out and collected. This moisture that is collected in the water trap is continuously drained through the nylon tube to the water collection tray where it evaporates. Next the air is decompressed to 55 psi by the secondary regulator. After this decompression the small amount of remaining moisture is so dispersed throughout the expanded volume that the dew point of the air is several degrees below room temperature. In the Aridyne Air Compressor this dew point depression can range from 3 to 10 F. All of the above with the flick of a switch. Turnkey. I do need to train my new puppy on how to flick the switch. From this point the air is regulated down to 19 and sent down 100 feet of tubing - some of it coiled up. The ET2 likes dry Arizona air. Its been said here before. I also happen to believe based on my compressors versus current setup from years ago, that there are advantages in a constant air psi being delivered by a quality pump versus a cycling off and on compressor which is like letting air out of a balloon slowly. This constant controlled air psi from a pump is how air is delivered for patients in hospitals. That's another discussion ! Now a question for long time ET2'ers using original manifolds. Some over 20 years old. When is the last time you checked the condition of your capillaries? Are the manifold inlets at 50-60-70 80% of what they should be? If not 100% you will be using more PSI to drive the arm because they are partially clogged and not getting the performance they were designed for. This is another reason some say the sound got better with more PSI. Clean them per the manual instructions. lastly - someone advised me of a poster, a respected professional reviewer who has posted on Whats Best Forum saying he used 50 psi with his ET2 for it to sound its best. First as mentioned above the design limitation is 19 PSI. Don't take my word for it - Ask Bruce yourself. When I read stuff like this, I make like a deer in the headlights on the other side of my screen. I wonder what he really hears, and what else is in his audio chain to cause this. I try to stay within the design parameters for all the gear I own. This is another clue imo that you are a music lover first. My experiences have been increase the quality of the air supply and the sounds gets better - every time. I hope this was helpful. More secrets revealed coming up. The title of the next post? "Why does the action of my ET2 VTA, resemble me Coming Out Of A Brothel at 2:00 am" The dirty secret is finally revealed...... |
Richard its never the best way to just cut and past portions of emails and other info into a thread. Whats missing is the rest of the email, and the valuable info obtained from verbal conversations. Summary: Pump/Surge tank ---- long tubing (if you don't have the room coil it up) ----- ET2 PSI Gauge/filter within 5 feet of the tonearm. The PSI coming out of the air pump should be ideally targeted to match the PSI the manifold has been designed for. For those buying a used ET 2.0 (.5) its important to determine this. We have discussed the technique here. Before this technique is performed the manifold needs to be restored. Definition of a manifold. "A pipe or chamber branching into several openings" Two Et2 ManifoldsThe owner has provided permission for me to post these pics. Thank u ! The one on the left dirty from years of use without a filter/trap. The one on the right has been cleaned. What can't be seen in the pic is what the insides looked like before and after. Its the same manifold. Cleaning procedures well documented in the manual. If your planning on upgrading your pump make sure your manifold has been restored first. The threaded portion of the manifold is designed to allow air to spiral around the outside of the set screws and maintain the precise length and size of air passage required for an efficient air bearing. Page 42 Next in Line. The Air Bearing Spindle psi requirements are less than the manifold as only a portion of this air is required for it to float properly. Approximately 50%. That means on a base ET2 only 1.5 psi ! - if your manifold is restored and functional. The "old" air escapes as per Bruce' design out the sides of the manifold. Richardkrebs - you must have time on your hands... I fail to see the relevance of your comment. If you're really that interested the previous post took 40 mins - which is about how long it normally takes to down my mug of coffee with one re-heat. The intent (agenda) of all this includes awareness, interactive sharing, knowledge, learning, and "mostly" fun. I am having a blast. how bout u ? A fun start to my day now that I am not living with the bears. Now where were we ? Something about the similarities of the ET2 VTA and a brothel ? |
***** ET2 THREAD - BEARING STIFFNESS STICKY DISCUSSION ******* Just so this info does not get lost here. :^) Pegasus
Regarding the pressure compensation, it might help to use the analogy of a stiff power supply (air supply & reserve connected to manifold) with a few local supplies (local pressure zones around air capillary openings to the bearing) coupled with high series resistance (capillaries). As current (air flow) drops on one of the sub-supplies, the voltage (air pressure) rises - kind of a passive feedback!
Regarding the usually alluded inherent "stiffness" of mechanical bearings including unipivots, it's worth to consider the following thought:
No material is stiff, everything is more or less elastic. (With some unique properties subsummized in the poetic word "character", importantly damping, and including speed of transmission). Reduce pressure area, and elasticity increases. This affects resonance frequency inherent in any elasticity / mass combo. *Point* coupling as in a unipivot or a spike point, looked at on an "atomic level", is in no way making the coupling stiff, it's the opposite. The surfaces meet in kind of a balanced force & elasticity state, a bit like a jelly ball swimming in water, to put it to the extreme. You don't get steel more elastic than with a perfectly pointed unipivot interface. Then think "it" as an elongated point and you see something like a short subminiature "string" at the end of the point - quite elastic, like a very small piece of microscopic harpsichord string. "Flatter" points like balls have much less of this, and make stiffer bearings - that depend more on extremely complex polishing processes. Some arms use the tip of a roller pen, quite clever!
The whole "argument" (rather a mythical marketing image?) of the "mechanical diode" is moot. Point coupling shurely does "something" (as everything we do does) but shurely it is not "stiff coupling" or magic diode processes. It might eliminate eg. multi-point rattling by a multitude of low pressure indefinite points, eliminating noises of "buzzing paper on a comb"-effects, tingling in metal-to-metal sonority.
And... air bearings are at the total other end of the scale!
.
That's what Bruce tells us since a long time. Yes for a long time page 3 of the ET2 manual. The large surface of the air bearing uses some of the tightest tolerances in tonearm manufacturing today, and is much more rigid at audio frequencies than metal bearings" what imagery and a way of expressing things clearly. a bit like a jelly ball swimming in water, to put it to the extreme. :^) Now regarding this statement ....... As current (air flow) drops on one of the sub-supplies, the voltage (air pressure) rises - kind of a passive feedback! An observation. When I had my ET 2.0 HP and and ET 2.5 HP both on the same table I switched their air hoses back and forth. With the supply source remaining at a constant 19 PSI, it was interesting to watch the PSI gauge go up by a few PSI when hooked up to the ET 2.0 (into the 20's) and likewise to watch the gauge go back down by a few PSI to 19 with the larger lunged 2.5. Audiogon'r Ketchup has presented graphs here showing similar information. Relevant info from the Oct 29 Post Sticky. CT0517
If we use my ET 2.5 as an example that you set up specifically for 19 psi which is your optimum design setting for your tonearm. A continuous 19 psi air flow is sent in. Can we assume the spindle uses all 19 psi to work optimally (or is it a percentage of this amount)
Bruce
The manifold is optimized for the design pressure, the pressure at the surface of the spindle is a percentage of the inlet measurement, this is by design. The ET2 uses roughly half of the air to allow the spindle to work properly ? The supporting force is the surface area of the bearing times the pressure at the surface of the bearing
ME
So allowing air to escape around the edges of the manifold as more is pumped in ? is this a captured air bearing system ?
Bruce
Yes it is captured. |
Hi Stu - welcome to the thread. This has continued for 2 months. With total respect to the relationship with your dealer; based on 2 months of waiting I personally would be inclined to demand better status information from the dealer; in order to satisfy you they would in turn need to demand better status info from ET. An alternative is to contact Bruce directly. brucet(at)eminent-tech(dot)com Let us know how you make out. Cheers Chris |
*** YELLOW STICKY FOR ET2 THREAD MARK - VTA *** I want to thank the recent private exchanges with Banquo363 for inspiring this post to be known hereafter as the Brothel Post :^) Why does the action of my ET2 VTA, resemble me Coming Out Of A Brothel at 2:00 am ? Has your ET2 VTA lost its MOJO ? The post is broken down into three parts. PART ONE - Recognizing the problem. . PART TWO - How does this problem come about PART THREE - Solution/Fixes I learned quite a bit during the preparation of this post which took about 6 full coffee sessions to prepare. It started out as a big dump of info which was slowly reduced to what is here. If any of this post helps even one ET2'er it will have been worth it to me. So Grab a Coffee/Tea or depending on your time zone - a drink ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PART ONE - Recognizing the problem ***Note:The pictures in this thread are anonymous, real and have not been doctored*** The repeated message on this thread has been one of not torquing the ET2 bolts too rigid, most recently by Pegasus and yet once again by Frogman who I believe first mentioned it. I also endorse this. I have learned the hard way about too much torquing and am very "aware" whenever I torque a ET2 bolt. As promised lets get right to the dirty little secret. Does the action of your ET2 VTA resemble you spending too much time at the brothel ? Disclaimer/warning - the pics you are about to see show very real ET2 abuse. View at your own discretion. The Dirty Little SecretThe pic has been oriented "horizontally" to keep with the theme of the post. Plus it highlights the detail better - don't you think ? In the picture can be seen, imo, some of the genius of Bruce Thigpen. I don't know about you but when I look at this picture I am a little stunned with awe. It is SO out of the box thinking. Well behold the secret behind the patented VTA ET2 mechanism. Kind of looks to me like something designed to work on the Mars Lunar project ? For ET2'ers that know about this ET2 VTA, what is seen in this picture is plain and simply, "A relationship gone very very bad between Mrs. VTA Block and Mr. Post (aka) "Mr. Worm Gear." :^) Are the brothel similarities becoming a little clearer ? When you ride a train you assume that the tracks the train runs on are in good order and will get you where you're going without incident. How many here were/are aware that the tracked/ridged worm gear Stainless Steel horizontal post, rides on similar tracks/ridges inside the actual VTA block's RACK OF TEETH like a train? They need to be "in the groove" with one another. Notice in the pic how the "RACK OF TEETH" are wore out. See the bald spots? How do you expect the worm gear to track that properly? This particular one was tightened down so tight that the VTA block teeth material was imbedded onto the SS post itself and the VTA block was stressed to the point of having a chunk taken out of it. You don't believe me? Here have a look... again at your discretionThe picture is a result of uneven VTA bolt torquing and locking down "rigidly" the VTA mechanism. An extreme case of way too much torquing.What good is a patented VTA system unique among tonearms if the ET2 has lost its VTA MOJO ? The good thing is it doesn't have to end up like this. Hopefully this post sheds some light and will prevent this from happening. We've seen the problem. Can it be fixed and avoided altogether? To find the answer imo, we need to look at ourselves and go back into the past a little. After all they say the best way to see the future ...is to study the past.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PART TWO - How does this problem come about. Reheat Coffee/Tea ? I like my Black Coffee Piping hot. In the beginning....:^) When we brought the ET2 home its VTA block was attached to the manifold housing already; with the four bolts torqued CORRECTLY from the factory if it was new. Now as a NEW owner of this tonearm (whether it is NEW or USED) once we got the base plate mounted and the Pillar Post on, I remember just attaching the arm without much other thought and the leveling process starts in earnest - 100 % of the effort went into leveling it. The excitement of getting it up and running, playing my records while the tonearm floated on air is just too great a feeling of "Giddy" to get over. Remember the thought of visiting a brothel for the first time ? Was it the same feeling of Giddy ? If it is, you are really old, like me. Now I just want to reiterate, that you can't be blamed for mounting it right away on the Post Pillar. I mean this tonearm in person doesn't look like anything else you have ever owned. Some friends that have seen it in person think its scary looking; imagine that. They have told me they find it intimidating, and say it looks like it belongs in the military as a weapon....seriously. If Bruce wasn't based in Florida you may also think it came from Switzerland. Well what if you buy a Swiss watch; how do you tell if all is good ? I'm sure Pegasus can tell us much much better than I can. I can only think to ask a watch pro to look under the cover, is one way.... The same needs to be done here. Look under the cover. More on this in a bit. First a short true story. Born and raised in Toronto if you research or talk to people, it is known worldwide as a nice, clean, cosmopolitan but conservative city. Some have called Toronto a smaller version New York run by the Swiss. Former Mayor notwithstanding. Now there was a time however, and unfortunately I was only 10,11, 12 ? at the time, that you could walk downtown Yonge Street, and you would see plenty of doors cracked open just enough showing the internals of brothels inside with scantily clad women sprawled across couches waiting for customers. I remember finding it odd at the time that so many of the guys they spoke to were called "John". What a coincidence I thought. I can still see them today ! No not the John's.... the scantily clad women ! Its like your old playboy, hustler and other such magazines.The women never age.... Now the really unfortunate part is that by the time I was old enough to enter within these doors - the crackdown had occurred and all was wiped clean... :^( ok - BACK ON the VTA TRACK ............ If you are a long time ET2 Owner or a New Owner that just brought home a USED ET2. New Owner Used ET2 - Don't mount the VTA Block/Manifold assembly on the post Pillar just yet. More Patience is required. You need to have a look at the VTA block's internals and assess them first. You see along with the ET2, you also happened to pick up some baggage called the relationship between Mrs. VTA block and Mr. Worm Gear" that we just saw a picture of above. If you intend to use the VTA then you need to determine if this relationship is a happy one or not. The one in the pic above was obviously NOT. Existing owners or if your ET2 is already assembled and you are having issues with the VTA. Remove your cartridge and lead weights. Remove the Main arm assembly from the Pillar Post. Undo the four bolts that hold the VTA Block in Place and pull out the VTA Block that contains the Post assembly - What do you see inside ? Have a look at the VTA treads (RACK OF TEETH) inside. Do they look clean with no tread fragments on the worm gear. And do the teeth/tracks/ridges look even, sharp and well defined. If Yes - this is an indicator of proper torquing. The VTA bolts are torqued at the factory. But we all know we get curious and all of us - "ALL" - have re torqued the VTA block bolts - each one,probably different than the other three. The ridges/treads get worn unevenly when u do this. The VTA Block mechanism tells a very important story in a used purchase. The history of your arm. Was it owned by a VTA Virgin or a VTA Whore ? IF YOU HAVE AT ANY TIME RE-TORQUED ANY VTA BLOCK BOLT WITH THE TONEARM MOUNTED ON THE TABLE- YOU HAVE THROWN OUT YOUR ALIGNMENT. Torquing and adjustment of the VTA block needs to be done - "OFF THE TABLE" Sorry for yelling on this last point - but it is very important. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PART THREE - Solution/Fixes If you indeed discover that your ET2 looks sort of like the one in the pic, All is not lost. You see unlike real life where pills are needed if you happen to lose control of your tool, here in Vinyl land you can actually have a new VTA block sent to you so all is good again. You can again have the joy of the patented ET2 VTA Brothel and enjoy your music. FIRST OPTION - GET A NEW VTA Block Send your Manifold housing, VTA Block and Pillar Post to Bruce. He will machine a new VTA Block for you. This will result in restored operation, and now with an owner that has real knowledge based on past experience. I would also recommend anyone who is upgrading the Manifold to HP - ask Bruce to check your VTA block assembly as well so he can assess if he needs to replace it. Each VTA block is unique (one of kind) as far as how it joins to the manifold assembly. IMO the price shown on Bruce' site for the parts and machining that contains a new VTA block and SS Horizontal Post gear inside is an example of an manufacturer who doesn't gouge audiophiles. Now a note : If you are buying used ask the seller to check the VTA Block condition for you. Otherwise assume you may need to purchase another VTA block if you want to use the VTA. SECOND OPTION - RESTORE YOUR VTA BLOCK TO FACTORY SETTINGS If your VTA Block is still in Good Shape but you feel you have "messed with it" and want to set it up to the factory settings here are the instructions direct from Bruce Thigpen. From Bruce: (word for word) My first rule would be to use the short end of the Allen wrench as the lever for torquing any screws on the ET-2. The short lever arm will limit the applied torque. For the two bearing blocks that mesh the pinion to the rack in the arc block we first adjust the blocks so that they are parallel to the manifold housing with a .060 -.090 gap between the bearing block and the back adjacent surfaces on the manifold housing. The friction between the manifold housing and the arc block define the feel of the VTA mechanism lever action. We want this to offer some resistance, but not too much when a VTA adjustment is attempted. Turn the 4/40 x 3/4 bearing block screws so that some friction is encountered when adjusting VTA but not so much that the VTA mechanism locks up. We would not attempt this adjustment with the tonearm installed on a turntable. The main failures we see with the arc blocks are: 1.The threaded insert on back surface of the arc block is cracked due to over torquing of 8-32 stainless steel button head post mounting screw. 2.The bearing blocks on either side of the arc block which support the pinion gear are over torqued which crushes the pinion into the rack and binds the mechanism, if a VTA change is attempted with over torqued bearing blocks the pinion turns and the rack does not move, stripping the teeth on the rack. |
an et piece that broke. In 2003 I over torqued and cracked the very important end cap. In 2003 Bruce charged me $45 for it. Back in 2003 $45 also filled the tank of a 65 litre (17 US gallon) car gas tank at 68 cents a litre (3.78 litres in a US gallon), 11 years later, Bruce still charges $45 for the end cap if you break it; but gas is now $1.25-$1.35 a litre now where I live. $45 now barely fills half that same tank. |
Frogman to Slaw - BTW, I have enjoyed your music posts in the recent past. +3 I know that Slaw has a record collection that many can only dream of. A true music lover. |
**** ET2 Thread Yellow Sticky- VTA Block Pt.Two -How to Torque the VTA Block Bolts **** This post also to be known as ; "Honey, winter is coming. Do you think we need to put new tires on the car?" Well non-ET2'ers must by now realize that you need to be a little mechanical minded with this tonearm, if a post subject is dedicated to how to torque the VTA block bolts on the ET2 ? Would you expect any less for something that is patented ? Its now confession time for ET2 owners past and present. How many of you after seeing the gap between the manifold housing the bearing block said to yourself ... Hmmm... I better close this gap, somebody left it loose and open. If you did this, you just locked your VTA. Jammed the worm gear post up against the rack of teeth as far as it will go. If you use the VTA in this manner you will strip the rack of teeth or it will not move at all if there is still tread left on the rack of teeth. VTA Block Gap and How to Torque the 4 VTA Block BoltsThe pic shows (left side) where the VTA Gap is and (right side) one of the VTA bolts being torqued. This is repeated for the other 3 VTA bolts. Takes only minutes to do. Two important tips from Bruce mentioned on the earlier VTA Yellow Sticky Part One post. 1) Use the short end of the allen key. Torque is dramatically reduced. 2) Do not make adjustments to the 4 VTA Block bolts while arm is mounted. You will throw out your alignment. All adjustments should be made off table. Also just to clarify when Bruce says .060 -.090 gap between the bearing block and the back adjacent surfaces on the manifold housing. It's in inches. The adjustment can be done by sight if you are familiar with it. A feeler gauge is shown in the picture on the right. And the gap range is a starting point as all ET2 VTA Blocks are machined individually. The key is to be even in the torquing on the 4 bolts, and to torque so there is a nice personal firm yet smooth feel and no binding to the VTA mechanism. Some of you may notice that the gap in the picture above is well below the .060 - .090 recommended range that Bruce recommends. This one is down to .20 but it still happens to track properly and true. How can this be ? I asked Bruce to confirm some observations.
Bruce - is it a fair statement that over time the rack of teeth due to friction with the post will wear down. When the firm VTA feel starts feeling loose it should be torqued down evenly a little more, off the table. If this procedure is followed you will get many many years of use out of the VTA block ?
I believe some have been just turning the VTA bolts individually without realizing the effect on the rack of teeth, resulting in uneven wear and at some point a VTA block that goes out of alignment.
Chris
Chris,
This is correct.
- thanks -
brucet So the rack of teeth "tread" wears down over a long period of time due to friction with the post worm gear. Maybe some new tires will be needed for the one in the picture soon. If you want to use a gapper like the one in the pic then can be bought cheaply from the automotive parts store. The one you need will look like the top picture in this link. GapperEach of the metal shims are called feeler gauges. Try to get one that goes up to .35. Also companies like Acklainds Grainger sells longer version feeler gauges. Pull out the two or three largest ones so they are side by side. Insert them between the VTA bearing blocks and the back surface of manifold housing. Turn bolts till snug but that you can still remove the shim. Test and feel how the VTA lever works off table. If it is firm and smooth your ET2 VTA Block is now torqued evenly and ready to be attached to the Pillar Post. |
Hi everyone - time sure flies by when you are having fun ? This came into my email inbox today - it may or may not represent an ET2 opportunity based on the auction selling price, but it is interesting for a couple of reasons so I thought I would link it here. A base low pressure ET2 - and with a Mag wand ! You can tell it is a ET 2.0 not ET 2.5 by the end cap that overlaps the spindle. You know it is probably a base and not HP model by the original pump shown. The Good Remember the earlier post about the VTA Block / Worm Gear relationship. This one shows the bearing gap clearly from the top pic. Any bidders are however advised to verify the "rack of teeth" condition with the seller. All parts are almost all there including the brass rings meant for "leveling" only. The VTA lever appears missing. Again verify with the seller. The obvious Mag and Aluminum arm wands - sweet. The Bad That pump can be placed at the bottom of the rack - it is that quiet and cannot be heard from 5 feet away. The seller (well his partner - read on) indicates it is noisy so l think the pump needs replacing based on the ad's wording. The aspiring comedian in me found some of the ad's wording ...kind of funny. I've replaced it because my partner hates it, and has dubbed it the "user-hostile" arm. She has a point -- you have to turn the pump on (and you should have the pump muffled or in another room, because it's noisy), and the arm's a bit fiddly to cue up. "user-hostile" - there is that military weapon reference I alluded to earlier. Also Still, every cartridge and table I've tried with it (within reason, don't use a high compliance cartridge with it!) sound absolutely magnificent. Obviously not a long term owner and has not been paying attention here. The original base ET2 came out in the hey day of higher compliance MM's . I have used an ET2 with aluminum armtube very successfully with a Sonus Blue MM. 50 cms/dyne x 10 (-6). What I think might have happened here was the seller was using the higher compliance cartridges with the big FAT boy.....Mag wand. If the seller is part of the average 5000 viewing this thread appears to be getting every day - Holy Moly ! - I hope he doesn't mind us using his ad for education, knowledge sharing, and a bit of humor. I don't think he does as he does show a sense of humor himself. Next post will be a Yellow Sticky again - Proper ET2 Bass Management......(ATB) "According to Bruce" It will be my humble attempt to put Thigpen's words of wisdom from his two part ET2 manual, into "one short easy to read post" for audiophiles and music lovers. Can this be done ? Get the bass right, the rest follows.... It's all about the bass.- |
The big guy dancing in that "Its all about the bass" video cracks me up. He stole all my dance moves. There is more mass moving side to side with him though. Like an ET2 without the decoupled counterweight. Frogman - I think you can do a lot with the original aluminum armtube and play heavy MC on it as well with tweaking. Your post supports this. But then you have also wrapped your aluminum armtube. A pic of it is attached earlier in this thread. An audiophile wrap ? Hmm this gives me an idea ...... more in a bit :^) It is not the same imo with my 2.5 with heavy Mag wand which I use with Richard's aluminum gooseneck. My experience puts this combo solidly over the fence onto the other side with Low Compliance MC cartridges only. The combo didn't work as well with the high compliance Acutex 420 str cartridge. That same 420 that had excellent drive and rhythm with the CF armtube and regular CF gooseneck joint became cruder and harsher sounding from what I remember. Its been quite a while. It didn't last long on there. The Acutex 420 high compliance MM is still on my 2.0 and aluminum armtube in my other room. That's also the combo Bruce liked best in his review of the 420 cartridge posted here earlier in the thread. Good lord its been a little over two years since that post now. 8^o |
Funny about your lab pup. Our Artie loves to try and catch the shower of leaves when using my beast of a leaf blower (Husqvarna; again).
Loves it second only to sitting still with an expression of total contentment when I blow dry him with it. What a life ! Yup .... 13 to 15 years of a good dogs life, with a family that cares. This is starting to look really good to me .... Audiophile (w)rap lol - - - |
The 2014 ET 2 Year End Audiophile W(rap) Some of the past pics and ideas from this thread to give others information sharing, and maybe get creative juices going for those that are in gear mode, or looking to do something different. Please feel free to post your ideas and pics to give the others ideas. You can also send me a link or pic at bcpguy (at) bell (dot) net and I can post it for you. To start it off. ***************************** Mona Lisa of ET 2 tonearm wiring ***************************** imo - This is Tonearm Wire Art and belongs in an Audiophile Art gallery Wire Art 1 Wire Art 2 Note also the special audiophile wrap on the armtube. Happy face loop putting the weight of the wires downward where it leaves the armtube. Minimal and consistent resistance across the record. For me and my anal attitude toward Mr. Wires (I am still searching for a wireless solution). If I am using a flat plinth surface, this is the route I would take. Serious passion lives here. :^) ***************** Go Your Own Way ***************** In the spirit of Fleetwood Mac's "Go Your Own Way" The first time I saw this ET2 setup my lower jaw dropped. Total and absolute Individualization, customization, and imagination to an extreme level. Serious passion lives here. :^) ************************ The Aspiring ET 2 Comedian ************************ If your current situation does not provide you with the ability to make people sing and dance, then how about making them laugh....(Sharing knowledge and information from direct experiences works well too.) *************** Swiss Army Knife *************** Many have called the ET 2, a swiss army knife version of a tonearm on the LP, with its Zero tracking error, and the multitude of adjustments to match up to the record. Its the Slave, the record is the Master. I think everyone still remembers this one ? Micrometer ET2Serious passion lives here. :^) From my own direct experiences, any new owners trying to make this level of precision work; better have their Music Room, Speakers and Amp/s combination already dialed in ahead of time. There is no place to hide here. Unlike my pivot arms which when set up at even 90%, can sound decent. This is an all or nothing scenario. You will know if it is out. ****************** The Freedom Fighter ****************** In the spirit of the P40. The Freedom FighterIn this example - a rare eye condition necessitates the use of special glasses. The left eye (in the pic) wants to go straight. The right eye (can't be seen) wants to keep turning right. The glasses correct this condition. **************** ET 2 on a Pedestal **************** The one that started all this insanity and was part of the inspiration to start this thread. The ET2 on a Pedestal In this case a 20 lb hunk of brass cut from a brass billet. I wish some of my financial investments were doing as well as this hunk of brass is in regards to market prices ! The ET 2 loves to be on its own pedestal. The reason ? The wires coming off the ET 2 drop naturally and can be put into a happy face loop. Keep the wires happy and you will keep your ET 2 happy; has been my experience anyways. The pedestal is a natural for wire management. And last but not least..... ************************** Audiophile ET2 Armtube Wrap ************************** The wrap seen here works best from December 15 to about January 2rd. Guaranteed to make those holiday tunes more enjoyable for you and your guests. Once outside of the holiday period, with some imagination, the wrap can be replaced with images of your favorite music makers, maybe your favorite pet or .........how about your spouse ? Can you Imagine her (or him) riding the grooves to your favorite music ? Guaranteed to put a smile on the faces of your guests. For me I am thinking the man in black is going to look good on my mag wand..... And let's not forget the additional benefit for Audiophiles ..... the visual placebo effect is engaged if images are from dead classical composers, and / or jazz musicians. :^) That's a w(rap)........ Wishing you and yours a safe healthy holiday season. Cheers |
Slaw - I've noticed lately that, the ARC/POST has an issue.
(This is an ongoing issue with the ET design)
If, you can look at your ET from dirrectlly behind. you'll notice the the arc block / post doesn't "square-up". Both mine appear fine. Mine also have a very tight tolerance. In fact Bruce highlights this tolerance level in the manual. Have you turned any of the four horizontal VTA block bolts with the arm mounted. This may cause the condition you describe. You have definitely thrown out your VTA block tracking if you have turned the VTA bolts with the arm mounted. Note: The ET2 manual is the original one with no updates that I am aware of. It contains a lot of good info but is in need of an update . For example. Page 26 VTA/SRA mechanism. It discusses that the VTA/SRA mechanism firmness is set at the factory. It discusses how to change the firmness level. A qualifier needs to be added to that section of the manual that adjustments made to the VTA block bolts should be done off table only. This was confirmed with Bruce and is discussed here in the Nov. 11, 2014 post yellow sticky. Retorquing ET2 VTA Block Bolts I know that some owners have actually turned these VTA block horizontal bolts to help line up the stylus on the straight line. A mistake for reasons mentioned above. Slaw - I recently sent my Acutex to Axel in Germany for a rebuild. (1000 hrs +++) According to him, the stock diamond is an elliptical. An upgrade, which I chose, is the Shibata diamond. The word from Audiogon'r Nandric is that Axle is very busy these days. I hope you get your 420 str back soon and look forward to any impressions. Am curious if it gains in the musicality area but looses some of its groove/boogie factor .... |
I certainly hope so Frogman :^)
His results were fascinating but predictable, and showed when it comes to this analog vinyl hobby much can be figured out. Since its all mechanical, vibrations, resonances, electrical. There is no hokus pokus going on.
01101101 01110101 01100011 01101000 00100000 01100100 01101001 01100110 01100110 01100101 01110010 01100101 01101110 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100001 01101110 00100000 01100100 01101001 01100111 01101001 01110100 01100001 01101100 00100000 00100001 00100000
And I say the above as a career IT guy......
My understanding (without giving away his observations) is he substituted the chopstick but kept the single leaf spring and the inert lead weights.
As we know the leaf spring is like a tuning fork designed to resonate. And when used as a single, double, triple leaf spring can be matched up to a resonating cantilever, much like a musician tunes up his instrument. I am more assuming here as I was a trombone guy - and the only valve was for body fluid from my personal distillery (thank u Pagasus !) My tuning was done with my lips. So maybe Frogman, Pegasus, ....can elaborate on the tuning instrument aspect better.
As with a tuning fork - a thicker stiffer one (ET2 double/triple leaf spring) will resonate higher than a thinner one - ET2 single leaf spring)
Anyway imagine what happens to the music when you add in something that is porous and absorbs much more so than the stock I beam itself.
Quiz question:
What leaf spring would work best with a stiff cantilever from an MC cartridge ?
(Hint you want to match the cantilever up to the resonating I Beam)
As the Canadian dollar continues is crumble against the American dollar - I am now willing to bet 115 instead of 100 Canadian loonies that no professional reviewer in the history of the ET2 ever figured out the above. |
Bravo to the Acutex 420str. The little cartridge that could. Our Cracker Jack Box prize cartridge made famous right here thanks to Frogman, Bruce Thigpen, Slaw and others... 42 x 10 (-6) cm/dyne 1.0 - 2.0 tracking 47 kohms Perfect STR You know...this is how analog legends start...... Three cheers... Hoorah...... HOORAH ......HOORAH ! The $520 US ebay selling price, these days is more than $600 Canadian plus shipping... :^( This hobby (especially analog) continues to defy all odds. Banquo363 - Me, I just wish I had bought more of these toy like carts at pre-bubble prices. Frogman - the 420STR remains one of my favorites and I too wish I had bought a couple of extras. I believe AudiogoN'r NANDRIC bought seven of them. |
Well, based on Schubert's latest "updated" information I feel a need to update part of the wording in my last post.
Previous wording
"If I worked for your audio dealer guy I may have been tempted to stuff some cartridges down my pants pockets."
Revised wording
"If I worked for your audio dealer guy I would be walking in with deep pocket pants, and a knapsack, which going in, carries my lunch** "
** Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. |
12-26-14: John47
... HOLD HERE. Hi John I believe the words HOLD HERE have very significant meaning to a married audiophile. My personal experience has been that these two words are effective for the first three years of marriage if you're good. After that you are on your own. That is if your marriage is still intact. If not these two words could be one more reason to why there is so much stuff for sale on this site. |
hmm.... 34 watchers on the ebay ad now..wow
this thread ...about to hit 800,000 views - wow - who would have thought ?
When and will any of the 34 watchers commit ?
Kind of like watching the Daytona 500 yesterday ?
the race was a bit of a let down for me.
I would like to personally thank the seller and watchers for providing some temporary cabin fever relief, as we head into the home stretch.
Lets consider something.
I have a Canadian friend who would like to partake in this unique ET2 world and is considering this item.
A used parts complete base ET 2.0, not 2.5 and non-HP, with aluminum arm tube, no pump - sells for approximately $700-800. Give or take.
This NOS one with a base pump has a $900 American reserve. $900 US is now $1132 Canadian dollars. :^(
Add 13% Canadian tax., shipping and customs fees. hmm... :^(
If I was selling this ET2 for $900 Canadian, an American buys it for about $710 US. |
BAD ET2 Behavior
If I may be permitted to use the analog of a dog.
Bad dog ....bad, bad dog !
So what do you do when your dog is bad ? You send them to dog school of course !
But we all know that dog schools are really for Dog Owners :^) so.......
EXAMPLES OF BAD ET2 (Owner) Behavior
The ET2 was designed as a unique universal tonearm able to be mounted on a number of different table designs. Some were good even great combos; but in the name of business and sales some combos were not so great and this leads to the first Example of BAD ET2 (Owner) Behavior.
This involved my old VPI HW19MKIV Spring, Sprung turntable.
If nothing else this thread has driven home the message of staying level. The ET2 needs a flat surface and it does not even need to be level since it has its own leveling spikes. But once set - the level of the surface can not change. This VPI table never stayed level - whether due to environmental season changes affecting the self/suspension, and or an ET2 owners careless bump after two glasses of New Zealand white wine.
The above would result in the owner performed maintenance involving turning one of the two Vertical Post bolts to right (re-balance) the situation. The problem builds up over time as one or the other bolt are turned down further, resulting in immense pressure down on the plate, and upwards as well into the Pillar post and the adjoining VTA Block/manifold possibly throwing it out too.
If you want to see the abuse your ET2 has had in the past; undo both vertical pillar bolts and see if there is an indentation from both bolts in the base mounting plate.
Now - how to avoid this problem, and make sure it never happens again ?
1) Choose a turntable that is able to stay level. (in the case of the VPI HW19MK IV - rubber pucks can replace the springs ensuring it stays level.
2) If a turn of one of the vertical bolts is needed for maintenance, FIRST ...undo both bolts so that the pillar post is floating on its horizontal bolt mount. Then re-balance the air bearing spindle by gently turning down both vertical bolt screws as required. Ensuring firm but not rigid contact.
other ET2 Bad Owner examples ...
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We are always hearing about New Old Stock (NOS) cartridges, tubes.... Here is something you don't see everyday NOS Base ET2 According to the seller "This item has never been out of the box." A quick look at the pics I can't seem to find the armtube. But the coffee has not kicked in yet. Probably buried under the blue foam. If anyone is interested in it, this should be verified with the seller. (not affiliated with the ad) Cheers |
"analog of a dog" Good grief. Just read the 2nd line of my previous post. This is what happens when u prepare a post in email; it passes spell grammar checks; u r full off a large coffee and nature calls so you cut and paste and go about your day. :^( It's actually kind of growing on me this morning. Analog of the Dog. A good name for a new album from a 70's rock group maybe ? Banquo363
I should have known better since the first et2 I bought had indentations so deep into the mounting base that I had to sand the thing down in order to mount the pillar correctly. Banquo - At least you looked under the cover to find out. Some buy these arms already mounted on a table - 20 + years old sometimes. They never take the tonearm off to check it out. Who knows what lies beneath. A new ET 2.5 from Bruce is $4500 American dollars and it does not come with a pump. A Used base ET 2.0 comes on sale every few months on ebay. I know because my Ebay alert is still there. Mentioned in the previous post a base used ET2 sells for about $700 - 800, so it can be an alluring option if someone is looking to try one especially compared to buying new. However it can be a bit of a crap shoot as you Banquo show us. Every long term ET2 owner has learned with their ET2, ET 2.5. It is not plug and play. No one can come on here and say they knew how to set it up and use it from the get go. The ET2 manual although very long and thick; is actually written at the 5,000 foot level IMO. To get to the heart of a refined setup as we have discussed here would add XX pages more to it. Anyone disagree ? To use an "ANALOGY" again (amazing what one letter does) Consider this. Well I did this morning anyway. Buying a used ET2 can be like buying a used Manual Transmission car off someone that learned how to drive stick on it. A new clutch, (think ET2 VTA worm gear block and mounting plate to start) may be required due to the abuse some give to the horizontal and vertical bolts in learning 1) how to set it up 2) then to make music with it, and 3) refine the setup of this instrument. Hopefully if they get to level 3 they have gone easy on the bolts - firm not rigid. Think musical instrument. It is good practice to get a car checked out before you buy it. No different here and even more so and not just from the headaches and frustration it can save you. You see although an expensive car clutch can be replaced on its own; Bruce does not sell the VTA blocks and mounting plates separately. Something to think about. Maybe makes the NOS ET2 that just sold more appealing; if u were in the market for one? Cheers |
I bought two Puntina's at the time of their initial release .....to unsuspecting audiophiles. One is still in the box. When you are ready to do your review shootout, let me know and I will send it to you in exchange for your review here? :^) |
- Successful Frogman? > Timeter Aridyne - Spring pump maintenance gone bad. Every spring and fall the exhaust nozzle on my pump where moisture gets dumped out, gets soaked in CLR to clear out any mineral debris. here is a pic of the exhaust tube showing spring loaded nozzle at bottom. exhaust nozzleFrom within the pump cabinet a little lift is needed to pull out the nozzle. This time I felt something give at the other end when I did this. The O-ring that holds the nylon tube tight to the nut gave a little and started leaking air. This exhaust tube has a spring loaded valve on the end (part below the chrome part) and its spring tension is based on the the PSI setting that is used. This spring tension is how you get the pumps Air Performance to be normal, dry, very dry air .... As discussed here before - The ET tonearm likes Arizona like air . The O ring was now leaking (air & moisture), and it was throwing off the spring loaded valve at the other end. to add to the complications - the brass elbow male threads, that hold the nut that secures the exhaust tube are between 3/8 and 1/4 inch and no longer made. The O ring itself (same material as tube) is a one time use thing like a car's oil drain plug crushable washer. It gets crushed and molds on the tube to fit tight. This 10 cent part O ring was keeping me from playing my records. So I attempted to undo the male elbow assembly prior to the exhaust tube, with the thought to replace it with a new elbow with threads on the one side that would work with current compression nuts. After much work and some very weird noises :^( when prying it off, I was also to remove it. old and new elbows.I inserted the new fresh brass elbow, and was feeling really good about myself about now, then I discovered; I now had an air leak at the other end where the brass elbow enters the bowl. I must have cracked the bottom bowl opening hence the earlier noises. This bowl holds any condensed drips of water where through the PSI are pushed down and out the exhaust tube. This pump system has no bowls that need to be emptied. I tried to tighten the connection using teflon tape and gel based thread locker. No luck. Had I done myself in? My backup pump is either a compressor, or a Medo good for about 8 psi at the arm; but the ET 2.5 in my main room will not run below 19 PSI. In fact it starts to skip around 17 or so psi ? I resorted to my secret weapon, leak savior. JB Marine Cold WeldI Iined some around the base where the vertical brass fitting goes up and into the bowl and let it cure. I realized I was closing this connection for good. And the bowl itself where the crack is; would need to be removed and replaced anyway, if this die not work. Waited 24 hours. It seems to have worked.....fingers crossed. Cost of the repair. My anxiety once I learned what I had done. $$$ My frustration in trying to fix the leak $$$ JB Weld Marine Weld - FREE - I had some from a boat repair, New Brass fitting with compression nut - $4.99 Canadian dollars. Listening to music on my ET 2.5 / Timeter Pump - 19 PSI - Priceless Being in the business of contingency planning, I have been looking for a second Timeter pump for years; found many where I would have been the only starting low bid. But the shipment costs were always too high to justify. Now I have to add the dollar difference on top of that. (sorry for any grammar/spelling errors in the above) |
Holy Moly .....just read my last post...Good Coffee....... eh? post correction if this die not work hah.. hah ....maybe its my subconscious talking ? corrected - "if this did not work" . |
Bigalt - congrats on getting your ET2 up and running and welcome to the thread. That Silent Aire is an interesting pump design. Thanks for sharing. Here are a couple of videos for readers on the pump that I came across. As you say it is not continuous operation. Please let us know how it holds up. It is indeed very quiet. Silentaire 1Silentaire 2All those I know that have strived to refine their ET 2.0 and 2.5 setups beyond basic, setup per the ET2 manual; have discovered that improved air delivery is fully 1/2 if not more of the journey. in discussions with Bruce he indicated to me that the ET arm actually needs only 50% of the air volume to work and the rest gets bled through the manifold per design. Some audiophiles have inserted shims in the manifold edges - and this has been discussed here. As long as we realize that this changes Bruce' design and the pump's requirements. Also when I had my ET 2.5 made by Bruce years ago I told him I can go as high as 50 psi. He told me do not go beyond 19 psi. He made it clear it was the threshold for the design. So 19 PSI it was set up for. I find it amusing that there are audiophiles (some professionals/reviewers) on other forums that have gone on record to say they used compressors set at 30-40-50 psi with their past ET2 setups; and some not even with the HP manifold. Just the standard manifold. Hmmm..... ****************************************************** Banquo - Re; Timeter2000 - This pump of yours is like the mother of all pumps. Designed for the most important role .... keeping human patients comfortable and alive. So you are running your ET2 and your air suspension platform with it concurrently ? Banquo363 - I had been using its little portable brother, the Timeter pcs 414, to good effect. IMO the Timeter 3500 is the little brother to your pump. Your PCS 414 was more like a new toddler sibling compared to it. I have tried unsuccessfully to get a 3500 as a back up to my 3000. The shipping was always too much; and now having to deal with the dollar too. Its been said here before that keeping the pump in the garage is not good thing due to the big differences in humidity with the house inside. You are challenging its active drying system so would be interested to hear how it holds up. Let us know if you see any drops of moisture in the in-room bowl/regulator. My pump setup is almost turnkey. To make it truly turnkey I thought of maybe putting some cookies on top near the power switch to help train/entice the dog to flip the switch. But my dog would probably eat all cookies at once. So I continue to make the trip to the back bowels of the basement where the pump is housed and flick the switch that gives life to the ET 2.5. What got me thinking of using the dog; once after a long winter listening session I thought I saw a troll down there when I went to turn it off. I don't like trolls. All this Pump talk. I can hear non-ET2 readers now.... "You guys are nuts, All these pumps and tubes". Well I can say for me personally that my digital system fronted by the ARC DAC 8 is very, very good. Very listenable I enjoy digital, and have all digital listening sessions. Especially with music I have only in digital. But my main vinyl rig with modded 2.5 is a large delta over my digital. Once on vinyl I usually end up just turning the DAC and player off as they are plugged into the same outlet so it disengages them. IMO Digital is fine and can sound wonderful. As long as it is your only source and you keep well setup vinyl out of the picture, or you could run into problems - if you are the "nervous audiophile" type. Good vinyl needs good gear and good setup. Such is the grip of this audio disease on me. A good thing in that this Hobby part is safer than racing and it does not void my wife's life insurance on me. She is also able to keep tabs on me. As long as she hears music and feels vibrations coming from the room... I guess she thinks all is ok. When this stops she will know all is not well. |
Banquo363 - Understood, but bringing it inside would serve as my wife's daily reminder that I'm not 'normal'; we don't want that. This is a niche hobby and NORMAL, imo is very subjective and relative to the situation. For example in this comparison .... What shall we consider more normal here ? 1) The Air pump placed strategically in the master bedroom "double closet" right next to the wife's sexy red shoes. A clear transparent tube line following the phone line along the wall hidden from view. Entering the music room as one aquarium tube. OR 2) THISAll together now ...Holy Moly ! Photo courtesy of Leo Yeh - Munich Show 2015 The 2000 has 3 taps, so might as well use them. Reserve the third line and save it for yourself ....for when the music takes your breath away..... |
Bigalt - The way the ET-2 is normally wired has always been an issue for me when deciding how best to mount it on my TT. Because the tonearm wires are soldered directly to the RCA jacks in the RCA box or mounting plate and the wire is supposed to be fed through a hole in the armboard to create a loop, installing or removing the spindle or manifold requires desoldering the wires and pulling them out of the hole. This is a major PITA and doesn't make installation an easy process. The first post on this thread asked about wiring recommendations. Everyone here that has upgraded their wiring arrangement agrees the standard wiring setup is compromised. But lets also understand that everything is the way it is for a reason and to understand why this was done "wiring arrangement", one only need look at the objectives of the particular item in question. So lets take a couple of steps back for a minute. For the ET2. At the front of the manual. PAGE 3 "It is a uniquely conceived tonearm, designed to be installed on turntables with universal mounts. It can be adapted to both solid mount (direct drive) turntables and spring suspended mount turntables. Its flexibility in many cases allows it to be mounted on many turntables without the need for special hardware. " The above tells me that this Audio product is not something being made in limited quantities for a select market like many other Audio products. The purpose/objective here is to get it to the most people possible to enjoy it. Numbers sourced from Bruce and documented on this thread, show thousands made. When you distribute a product like this the wiring arrangement needs to satisfy many applications. That means some standard setup, compromises and all, need to be arrived at that satisfies most conditions. The standard wiring setup compromises the ET2 arm in two very different ways. 1) the number of solder connections 2) the wiring arrangement physically affecting the operation (movement) of the arm. Not even Bruce himself uses the standard wiring arrangement as was clear in his 420 str cartridge review here. He goes straight into the preamp from the cartridge leads. My understanding is all professional reviewers listened to this arm with the standard wiring arrangement. Even in the standard compromised wiring arrangement the arm was very well reviewed. Bigalt - In the end the important thing.... is that it is very good that you found a solution that works for you.....for now. :^) For me from personal experience a happy face loop coming off the armtube works best. The full flat plinth presents more challenges to achieve this as you need to elevate the wiring to start; to allow for a happy face loop. The ET2 wiring is a natural for turntable setups that use armboards/pods that are elevated with the platter to allow for a natural happy face loop. |
Bigalt - While your freezer is plugged into a separate outlet, since it's also in the basement along with your pump it's probably on the same circuit ( both units controlled by the same circuit breaker ). This is very true for a typical builders home. We moved to our current place in '94. The basement outlets were on 2 circuits. With separate circuits for Furnace/Air Con, water heater, sump pump (living in low area near water). I inherited an unfinished basement with open ceilings. This allowed me to easily run lines as I fed this audio disease. Room A has dedicated 20a, 20a , 15a circuits. Room B adjacent to it has a dedicated 20a. Now the key part for the Timeter air pump. It shares space in the area at the back of the basement with the exercise gear. My treadmill required its own 20a circuit so it got it. The pump shares this curcuit with the treadmill. One or the other is in use. Never together though. The freezer is on one of the two original shared circuits the house was wired with from the builder. I am firm believer in the Room/Power being the biggest rocks in this hobby. No matter what gear/setups people end up with. The end result will allows be bottle necked by your Room and Power. This makes them the big rocks. Keep your gear - improve your room and power and you will continue to get improvement. Observation I have lived on this newer power grid/infrastructure, under developed area now since '94. I rate the power 8/10. I grew up in the city (Toronto) and moved to suburbia for a time. My city rating 4-6, and suburbia due to a newer infrastructure, single home but the same nuclear based power grid 5-6. Power conditioners were needed in the city. Another perspective. I had a work friend coworker who also liked audio that moved back to Hong Kong. He told me that the power demands/delivery there made Toronto seem really good. It is no surprise to me that those audiophiles in densely populated areas; on old antiquated power grids/infrastructure; that experience frequent power hits and weather related power issues, are the ones going gaga over power conditioners/grounding devices. |
Slaw is on fire ..:^) In regards to the recent leveling discussions, please permit me to describe in parallel my out-of- the -box method at setting up my ET tonearms. This method is straight in - cartridge leads to phono. The wiring is a separate loom on its own. Wire LoomIt can be applied and removed in 10 minutes thereby allowing experimentation with different wires. Procedure 1) WITHOUT WIRING. Set up the arm per the manual. 2) Level using a a Blue Tack Pancakeplaced on the lead weights a little heavier than your cartridge - this allows the arm to free float in space. When leveling this way is accomplished; remove Blue tac and add your wiring. 3) Attach your wiring. again apply the Blue Tac on the lead weights. The arm "WILL" float one way - adjust the wiring positions only - do not touch the leveling screws which are already set for level of the tonearm. Adjust only the wiring itself. Using this process ensures your VTA Block Alignment is straight and true. If you are not able to make your ET2 free float with no movement after adding and adjusting only the wiring - the wiring arrangement is causing too much effect on the operation - PUSH or PULL of the arm. Revise your wiring arrangement. To understand this wiring phenomena - let's take a couple of steps back, look at the ET design a little closer, and let's make a comparison. In this picture is a ET 2.5 and the Kuzma Airline (picture lifted from stereophile) Kuzma and ET tonearmsNote the red circles. They go around the air tube and wiring for each tonearm. The Kuzma as part of its design uses the wires and airtube for controlling the movement of the arm. On the ET tonearm neither is required for controlling movement. The air tube as we know on the ET is stationary and plugged into the stationary manifold. As far as the wiring goes with the ET ..... well this is an open book really; this is where some get into problems, and why this arm, imo, has the reputation for difficult setup. Too much freedom on what can be done. The Kuzma can only be setup as in the picture. . We have seen some very inventive ways of wiring here. This wiring freedom aspect is either a real good thing, or real bad thing ...all depending on ones experience level. In talking with ET2 owners, the more experience you have, the more people seem to appreciate having freedom on how to run the wires since the ET tonearm does not need the wires for damping as other linear trackers do. Wiring arrangement designs are also based on the TT/plinth style being used IMO - every ET 2.0, 2.5 owner who wants to get ANAL about setup; needs to at least one time, remove the wiring, and set up the arm/cartridge "sans-wiring" first, then add the wiring. Only in this way will you be able to really level things without the wire influence, and witness how much effect the wiring has on your leveling attempts and actual operation of the tonearm. Until you have done this "sans wiring" setup, no matter what method you employ to level; the turns you make on the two vertical leveling screws will be affected to some degree by the push or pull action of your wiring setup. To prove if this is true for your existing set up. In reverse, remove your wiring - do you need to make leveling adjustments to your arm ? |
06-17-15: Analogluvr
Hi guys
I bought a vDH colibri xgp, not the light version, and I was wondering if it was a good match with the ET 2 original arm tube? My other options are a VPI 12 or a MS 505. Hi Analogluvr and welcome to the thread. Very nice cartridge. :^) So you bought the P which stands for Plastic body over the metal M - version ? Interesting how the manufacturer states how each cartridge version is more suitable for different music genres. The COLIBRI is available in three main versions: XC Version: (X = cross shaped modulator, C = matched crystal Copper wire coils) Low output all-round model Output voltage: 0.22 mV/channel Types available: XCP and XCM (P and M type suffix see *4) XC-HO Version: (X = cross shaped modulator, C = matched crystal Copper wire coils, HO = High Output) High output, most suitable for jazz music Output voltage: 0.30mV/channel Types available: XCP-HO and XCM-HO XG Version: (X = cross shaped modulator, G = matched crystal Gold wire coils) Medium output, most suitable for classical music Output voltage: 0.38 mV/channel Types available: XGP and XGM ************************************************** ************************************************** Colibri Static Compliance: 35 Micron/mN This makes it very high compliance. As one example the Acutex 420 str reviewed here by Bruce was even higher compliance. 42 x 10 -60 cm/dyne. For those confused by compliance....think cartridge springiness. (taken from - Galen Carol Audio) Any cartridge/tonearm combination will exhibit resonance at a specific frequency (or frequencies). This resonance is due to the interaction of the cartridge (acting as a spring), and the weight of the arm (acting as a mass). The "springiness" of the phono cartridge is described as compliance, the weight of the arm is specified in mass. As an example, a heavy weight on a light spring would obviously over-flex the spring, conversely, a light weight on a strong spring would not allow sufficient flexion. so .. Low compliance 12 x l0ˉ6 or below, is considered low compliance. Medium to high compliance is 13 x l0ˉ6 and 25 x l0ˉ6 is considered high. Very high compliance above that. You can express compliance as the Colibri does in um/mN. Here a rating of 5 to 10 is considered very low, 10 to 20 is moderate and above 35 is very high The Colibri is very high compliance. So if all other factors are equal the ET 2.0 with original aluminum arm tube would work best with this cartridge. ************************************ ************************************ other interesting stuff. The web site data for VDH shows the vertical tracking angle as 22 Degrees for the Colibri Here is info lifted from the ET2 manual Page 56 which I find useful. *Not all cartridges will be improved by using them at some angle other than the intended design angle. the top of the cartridge parallel to the surface of the record. *If the measured vertical tracking angle of a cartridge is high (greater than 22 degrees) its vertical performance will probably be improved by tilting it back 2 or 3 degrees. (front goes up) to match present vertical angles on records. *If the measured vertical tracking angle of a cartridge is 18 -20 degrees it will probably perform best when its top is mounted mounted parallel to the record. *Some cartridges are senstive to small changes in VTA, some are not. pls excuse an spelling/grammar errors. **************************************** **************************************** And if we really want to get ANAL-og with our ET2 setup. :^) low compliance cartridge - use triple leaf spring with I Beam. medium compliance - use double leaf spring. High compliance - use single leaf spring. The Colibri would use one leaf spring. We are matching I Beam Springiness with that of the cartridge. |
Hello Slaw - in addition to Richard's question I am interested to know about your modded thread drive VPI TT. Specifically.. What type of thread are you using ? How many LP's does it last for; and when the thread does give up the ghost; is it all at once and SNAP ! or are there the indicators of wavering pitch. Ct0517: Bigalt's 8 tt's should not surprise you. I think it is more of a "I wish I was there" factor. ha ha. (Shhhhh... you are very, very close) hah hah Slaw - do you recall a conversation we had about 3 + ? years ago. You were interested in 2nd TT - a Rek O Kut idler drive and asked me my opinion of idlers. One of my tables was a Jean Nantais Lenco idler. Do you remember what I said ? "Be careful what you wish for, it's a slippery slope." in reference to this turntable journey. My multiple turntable craze was a temporary diversion for me. A welcome one as it helped in taking my mind off of other less pleasant stuff during a difficult time. I had at one time five TT's but only two in use at any one time. It was a comparison of drive types using the same tonearm and cartridge on two of them; same time using 15 IPS tape as a reference and switching between them. It was a fun, safe time right up to the point end when I got bold with experimentation and beheaded the well endowed Dynavector XV1. The drive type comparison is found on my system thread. A short visual synopsis is hereIn short very different, each drive type in the way the music is presented, all other factors being equal. Much like listening to a band or group in different venues, and or different nights. No two performances the same. fwiw I have just one main table now. The other two, are there in room 2 still but not in use. Would consider selling them but in no hurry to sell. As long as there are audiophiles buying this gear, prices will continue to rise, imo. At 53 I consider myself as one of the younger aging audiophiles trying to carry the audio flame. My kids soon to be 21 both love music. But convenience and portability are their most important considerations. They do not strive for the in room experience with the musicians. I believe this is because when they go out for entertainment, they go to clubs that reproduce music electronically.... mostly. When I was their age I was ...mostly..... in small venues listening to live bands... live music. I am trying to capture my personal fountain of youth. get those endorphins flowing ..... This thread is now well over one million views ......8^0 Happy past July 1 Canada day, and to my American friends Happy July 4th. Canada Day for me was memorable... there was a small traffic jam on a cottage road. As we approached the backlog it looked like cars were backed from what looked like a brown animal with babies (greenish in color for some odd reason in the distance ?) crossing the road. As we approached; it turned out to be ....a Beaver carrying a 6 foot maple tree branch across the road. He was in no hurry. Back to running with the bears. :^) Happy Listening |
