Hey John.
Actually, there are two numbers on Chris' feeler gauge, .020 followed by .508 mm which is the metric equivalent of .020 in. It is very hard to read from the picture but it is the same as the feeler gauge I have. I don't know if you bought your ET II new but if you are sure nobody has played with the top two bolts on the VTA block, you probably still have the factory setting and are good to go.
Harry
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Hi John,
I'm using 1 ft long pure silver unshielded, cotton insulated interconnect from junction box to my CAT SL-1 which is supposed to be 47k ohm. The IC is made by a fellow in Texas and is sold only on eBay. I don't know it's capacitance. It should be pretty low.
Cheers,
Harry |
Hi Frogman,
Guess I didn't know the platter height was adjustable. I'm about 1/4 inch + above the plinth. It would have been interesting to try. Not possible now unless I lower the arm board because my platter extends just a hair over the arm board and the clearance there is very small. I must confess while I've read about bearings and thrust plates for years related to TT maintenance, I'm not sure I know what the thrust plate is or how to adjust it. Good lord, not something else to adjust?!
I too am rather surprised at what I can hear. I'm 73 and spent 5 years as a Naval Flight Officer so I do have some hearing loss. I doubt I have anything left above 8-9k hz. That said, I can hear room, air and low level detail on well done recordings. Guess it is the harmonics. I suspect my hearing loss contributes to the difficulty I have with VTA adjustment. I think sometimes in search of the higher frequencies I tend to push the cartridge nose down too much. But I'm learning.
Cheers,
Harry
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Well, my CAT preamp has RCA inputs into which I can plug loads to change the loading but the only loads I have are 40 and 80 ohms. I've tried them both and found them to roll of the highs a bit much for me. But, then, there is my hearing loss in the high frequencies. Most of the bloggers I have read relating to the CAT seem to prefer it straight in at 47k. I do wish I had the luxury of remote to compare loading from my sweet spot. Alas, I think I'll be buried with my CAT.
Convergent Audio is a rather unique company. They have no web site and no published email or phone number. I don't believe they even advertise. Ken Stevens is rabidly protective of his dealers and forces all contact through them. Makes it difficult for the tweakers among us. Unlike, ET you can't just pick up the phone and say, "Hey Ken, send me down some loading plugs."
The company was not that way in its earlier days. In fact, I actually spoke with Ken a few times shortly after purchasing my preamp. I'm not denigrating the company. Ken builds a super product. At the risk of alienating others on this thread, the only preamps I've heard that I thought were in the same league are the ARC SP-10 and SP-11. I do confess to have an interest in the ARC SP-20. I need to get down to Atlanta to see if I can listen to one. Purchase would have to wait another year or two for prices on the used market to come down some.
Harry
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John,
No offense taken. I don't consider any suggestions meddsome on this thread. I very much appreciate the suggestions. Think I'll noodle around the Internet to see if I can find some loading plugs.
............................................
shubert,
Love the ET second class analogy. Brings back fond memories and, yes, it's like we can srtill hear what we're not supposed to be able to hear any more.
Cheers,
Harry
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Good evening,
Follow up report. While I will not claim to have become an ET expert, after about two months of tweaking and upgrading I can offer some suggestions on listening to your tweaks.
1. For those of us who use subwoofers, the tuning of your subwoofers adds a whole additional layer to what you hear. My advice here is to either get your subwoofer settings where you want them before you tweak/upgrade your ET or disconnect your subwoofer and listen for a few sessions before tweaking your ET. Then go back and readjust the sub before you pass judgement on your ET tweak. A tweak you think was one step backward may well be two steps forward when you get your sub tuned back in. VTA setting and sub integration can be interrelated.
2. When tweaking your ET pick 2 or 3 of the LP's that you rely on for testing your system and stick with them until you are happy with the result. Do not start sampling your record collection before you are satisfied with your work. Few of us have record collections comprised of only excellent recordings. If it was a lousy recording before you upgraded your ET, it will probably still be a lousy recording no matter how amazing your upgrade or tweak.
3. Be disciplined when you upgrade. Do one tweak or upgrade at a time. Perform only those tasks necessary to complete the upgrade or tweak you set out to accomplish. Do not give a bolt or screw that is not part of your upgrade one last twist before listening. I.e. Resist the urge to give that loose VTA block bolt a little twist for good luck.
These suggestions are probably second nature to you old hands but I think they can save a good deal of frustration to those new to ET upgrades and tweaks.
May you spend more time listening to your music than your system,
Harry
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Thanks again frogman,
I'll be interested to hear whether the double arm board performs better than the single with spacers. I'm going to try it first w/o the damping. I understand the two boards will not mate perfectly across their entire surface area but, then, there isn't any damping between the metal sub plinth and the single board either. Then still again no one ever argued the HW-19 can't benefit from tweaking.
Harry
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John,
Tried to contact Convergent Audio Technology without success. All you get is a recorded mesage telling you their business hours. They build great products but are very customer unfriendly. So I'm getting brave. Ordered some nice looking RCA plugs to build my own cartridge loading plugs. Do you know if resistors are directional, i.e. Is there a plus end and a negative end?
Thanks,
Harry
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Hello all,
Had recent email exchange with Bruce. Told him rumor was he was considering a run of long I beams and if he was to please put me down for one. He said he was thinking about it. Maybe a little encouragement from us would help?
Re cartridge loading, I'm not at all disappointed with what I'm hearing but John kind of talked me into trying the 100 Ohm loading. Going to give it a shot to see what I hear. Cheap and easy tweak.
I think within certain limits cartridge loading is listener and recording dependent. I listen to a lot of small combo jazz. I want to be able to hear cymbals that sound like brass (not steel) shimmer and extend off into forever. But when you spin up a trumpet like Miles, you don't want it ear piercing.
An example of recording dependent:. I really like the great sax players. I think Paul Desmond was one of the greats and own many of his records. I read a story about Desmond years ago that said he had an obsession about not being able to hear the spit in his reed. He insisted the recording engineers roll off his feed. As a consequence I often raise VTA when listening to Desmond. Even though his great RCA recordings with Jim Hall were extremely well done, you almost never hear the air across the reed like you do on a Ben Webster recording.
And as I mentioned earlier I believe, from a listening perspective VTA and subwoofer tuning are interrelated. If you raise VTA for top end extension, if necessary, you can inch up the sub to fill in bass a little. Can't get carried away or bass will get tubby but just a little can help with foundation.
Again, however, I think once you get your system well set up a lot of this boils down to listener preference.
Cheers,
Harry
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John,
Tried to go to The Bluebird for lunch not realizing they were only open for dinner. By then it was too late for reservations. Good luck with the new preamp. Let me know how it works out. I've never used a SUT either.
Harry
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Hello all,
Been away for a few days. Drove over to Nashville for a long weekend of live music. The venues were pretty terrific and I was afraid I wouldn't be able to listen to my system when I got home. Not so. Turned on the system, warmed up the tubes and it sounded excellent. Not live music but still sounding great. I think it does us well to walk away for a few days.
Frogman, I received the arm board. Thank you much. Going to wait a while before trying it out. I'm very pleased with what I'm hearing. The mag arm wand was a nice improvement.
John, my plugs and resistors arrived while I was gone. I'll try it out later this week but I've got nice tight bass and nice cymbal shimmer without brightness, straight into my CAT at 47k ohm. Like you, I think my ET II tweaks are showing my Delos at its best.
Harry
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Sure John,
You talk me into trying 100 ohm load then go buy a new preamp. :)
Sounds like you have a winner. I tried the 100 ohm load. ( I surprised myself with nice clean solders.) The difference is subtle. Midrange seems a tad smoother and rounder but without bloat. Highs may be a bit tamer but not too rolled off. I may have lost a little transparency, but not sure. I'll let you know in a couple days.
Enjoy the Allnic.
Chris,
Took note of J. Carr's recommended load range starting at 97.6 ohms. Think we can hear the difference between 97.6 and 100? Just curious. :)
I must be in a sarcastic mood today😈
Harry
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Nope, it didn't take a couple days. With the 100 ohm load I lost the impact of hammers on piano strings and fingers on strings of upright bass. I'm back to straight in at 47k Ohm and not hearing anything I don't like. At least nothing a Lyra Atlas wouldn't cure :)
Harry
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John & Chris,
Yes, certainly, I'm using my ears. I'm using the stock ET II wiring to a phono block and 1 ft of pure silver, uninsulated interconnect from the phono block to preamp. I don't know the capacitance of the wire. Sound is, however, very transparent. As I think has already been mentioned here, loading can vary from one preamp to the next even using the same cartridge. CAT recommends 47k for most all cartridges. I may give 1000 ohm loads a shot just for comparison but I'm really happy straight in.🎶
I guess my sarcasm was a harbinger for the market. A great day and I might have been able to get that Lyra Atlas. I usually go with third row LPs. Gives me an excuse to hydrate (red wine). When I'm in a revolutionary mood I read a little Ayn Rand.🤑
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Hmmm, options for audiophiles. Let me see now - Lighter weights all the way out or heavier weights closer in? Tweak VTA a little up or a little down? Nudge the sub woofer volume a little up or a little down? How about the crossover point of that sub? Magnesium or carbon fiber arm wand? Wire straight in to preamp or via phono block? Now, how about that loading - 100, 1000, or 47k ohm? Oh, yes, and most of these are interdependent - change one and you have to change them all. Which to do first and which to do last. Is the tracking force still correct? Sure is fun ain't it?
"Oh, heck, Harry, Just listen to the music!"
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John,
I think my humor didn't come through in the printed word. I agree, half the fun would be gone without these options. But it's also fun to complain to guys who know what you're talking about.
Cheers,
Harry |
Hello all,
Been away for a while. Spring has arrived in Western Carolina and my mini farm has been demanding attention.
John,
I don't know what Calypsos and Callistos are so I guess I don't have either. Enlighten me. I agree, with my Delos level and all other parameters set I find myself playing with VTA less and less.
Chirs,
My complaints were just poking fun at myself. All of these choices/tweaks, aside from being a great learning experience, have brought me a whole lot of great listening. I agree, don't start playing with the sub until everything else is set up to your liking. I don't run my sub from the preamp and only use the crossover in the sub for setting the upper limit for sub. Main speakers are driven directly from power amp and sub driven from power amp to high level inputs on sub.
You straight in loom guys are ganging up on me. It's not that I don't believe you. I'm just intimidated by the thought of all that loose wire hanging all over my ET II.
Bill Evans is calling,
Harry
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Hello all,
Bruce's long I-beam with double spring arrived today. 6 inches long not including spring(s). Very nice improvement. I'm down to the single weight about 5" out. I noticed deeper and tighter bass which extends to lower mids giving a richer sound along with increased inner detail. Has anyone else tried this new beam?
Harry
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Chris,
Be happy with your black flies. Yellow jackets got me twice in the last two weeks. Hope you are having a great summer.
Harry
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John - yes, yes I was remiss in not giving you a nod for this wonderful tweak.
Chris - Wish I could come off as a pro and tell you balancing was a snap. Alas it was not. It took a good deal of time and patience to acquire a neutral balance for leveling before adding the weight.
Interesting you used the word "heft" in describing balancing. Heft is a good deal of what this upgrade added to my listening. The sound is fuller without any bloat or loss of detail. Indeed, detail was improved. Not the kind of detail that is clinical but the kind that lets you hear fingers on strings and spit in the reed. All in all very nice.
Let me know what you hear with the long plank when you get back home.
Re yellow jackets, I've been stung 3 or 4 times since retiring here to "deep rural" and had no problem except the pain. This time I had an anafalactic reaction and ended up at the emergency room. I am now carrying an epi pen. Ahh, the price we pay for shunning civilization.
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Hi Chris,
Did customs figure out your $15.00 piece of plastic is not a danger to society yet?
Been reviewing prior posts and ran across those dealing with magnetic damping for the ET. I'd like to try it but, dunce that I am, I can't figure out where the platform to the left of the manifold where you put your magnet is located.
Harry
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Chris,
Got it. I'll be off to Lowe's for a cabinet magnet. I'm really enjoying Bruce's long plank.
Harry
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Bruce's long I Beam update (yes, Chris, the plank :)
Went by my mechanic this morning and picked up a couple of wheel weights. I was able to fashion one to fit in the slot where the first weight goes. I am now out to about 1/8 - 1/4 inch from the end of the plank and the music keeps getting better and better. My Delos now has a mid range bloom and richness I did not previously think was possible from a Lyra.
Lyras have that wonderful upper extension that we detail nuts crave. However, I have often thought that my Delos (and previously my Clavis) had a slight gap between the midrange and the upper frequencies. This seemed to contribute to a lack of bloom in the midrange. Just not so rich in the middle like, say, a Koetsu.. This has all changed with less weight further out. Still not a Koetsu in the mids but a Koetsu can't retrieve the detail my Delos does. (Oops, I don't want to start a cartridge war).
The second thing I noticed was a slight taming of horns and certain voices. No detail lost but just a little smoother. For example, I love the three standard albums Linda Ronstadt did with Nelson Riddle. Linda's voice has a slight edge on it that I some times found a little fatiguing. With the long plank that edge is tamed. Once again, no loss of extension just a little smoother.
This is arm is truly amazing. It seems there is no limit to the improvements one can accomplish with a little effort and great input from the audiophiles on this forum.
Cheers,
Harry
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Another long I-Beam update:
If you missed my earlier post Bruce's new long plank is a little too thin for the weight clamp. It won't clamp down tightly. Bruce just updated me to say he is working on a second run that will correct this problem. Should be available in a couple weeks.
In the interim, if you already received the long plank there is an easy work around. Just reverse the clamping screw so it can be applied directly to the plank like a set screw.
Harry
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John,
While my longer beam with weight almost at end does seem to flex a little more than the shorter one, it is not excessive on my rig. Two thoughts. Are you using a double or triple spring on your beam? If not, that may solve the problem. Secondly, perhaps your hobby shop beam is just more flexible than Bruce's.
Chris,
Interesting observations. My first setup with new plank was the same as yours. With only the molded weight I could only get out to an inch from the end. With only my diy smaller weight I got out to within 1/4 inch from the end with further improvement.
Harry
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Chris,
When you get a chance, I sent an off topic question to you by pm a few days ago.
Harry
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Bruce's second run, long I-Beam delivered yesterday. Much better fit for the weight clamp. Sounding good.
Cheers
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Gentlemen,
I recently picked up a Van den Hul MC One Special. Specs say static compliance is 28 micron/mN. I don't have a clue what this means in terms of high, low or medium compliance. Can some of you with a better engineering/physics background than I tell me which of Bruce's arm wands would be best suited to this cartridge.
Thanks,
Harry |
Thanks Pegasus,
I started college (1961) majoring in engineering. At the end of my sophomore year intermediate calculus drove me to change major to political science.
I have an ET 2 that has not been upgraded to the high pressure manifold but I'm am running it with a pump that gives me @ 8 psi. I've been running the VDH with an extra magnesium arm I picked up. I'll try the original al arm. Thanks for the info.
Harry |
@pegasus
Swaped arms from mag to aluminum. Difference is subtle but audible Soundstage is deeper and cymbals are more extended with little or no grit. The VDH is rather more up front than the Lyras I'm used to and the aluminum arm seems to push it back just a little.
@dover
Ive had noting but Lyra for years ( Clavis, now Delos). In comparison the VDH is not as extended or as transparent, however, the VDH has a richer (in a good way) midrange and even without the extension it seems to have plenty of detail. Somehow I think it is just more musical. If I were going to show off my system I'd use the Delos. If I were going to listen to music I think I'd go with the VDH. It is superb on acoustic guitar.
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@frogman
Pretty remarkable we are hearing the same subtle differences between arm wands with the VDH. Guess my 73 year old ears aren't as bad as I thought. The focus of individual instruments in space (particularly piano) don't seem quite as sharp with aluminum but I was able to sharpen it with VTA. My setup requires me to listen rather near field and the aluminum wand does push things a little further back in the stage.
I wondered if the VDH case was removable but prior experience prevents me from being that brave. If you recall, removing the case was a tweak many performed on the Lyra Clavis with the warning that removal dangerously exposed the cantilever. I removed my Clavis case and enjoyed the improvement for about a year before snagging a shirt sleeve in the cantilever while dusting the table and sheering it off. Hence, my cowardice.
@pegasus
I have been setting up with small changes to VTF and VTA being conscious of the interrelation. I haven't been quite a meticulous as your tiny blue ball method :) but using very small increments. It certainly improves the setup. I'm finding that, so far, in my setup, the VDH seems to like the high end of recommended VTF range and, like the Delos, almost level VTA.
Thanks to all for tips and observations!
Harry |
@frogman
I'm back on the mag arm with the VDH. My observations are again the same as yours. Finer focus of instruments in space. You described this as smaller in a wider space but I think we are talking about the same thing. I have lightened VTF on the mag wand and am getting more transparency with a more delicate sound. Still not a Lyra in this department but tonality is great on the VDH.
Cheers,
Harry |
@dlcockrum
Not! After my Clavis experience I'm a devout coward😱
Harry |
Frogman,
A dagger through my heart! 😢
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Long I-Beam update.
My new Van den Hul cartridge seems about broken in now. At least I'm not hearing significant changes from session to session. Fine tuning setup was nearly impossible while it was breaking in. I'm using the mag arm wand and the weights were about 1/2 inch from the end of the plank. At this point I started fine tuning and adjusting my diy weights so I could get the weight clamp nearly to the end of the plank. This resulted once again in increased focus and bass definition. I continue to be amazed at how small changes in the weight position result in very significant sonic changes.
Harry
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Welcome back, Chris. When you get snowbound you gotta get Bruce's second run long "plank".
Frogman,
Enjoyed my short sojourn with the the VDH MC-1 Special but missed the Lyra delicacy and extension I've lived with for so many years. I did, however, decide to give VDH one more try and acquired a Black Beauty SPX. I'm absolutely blown away by this cartridge. Great midrange and bass of the VDH but extension and air that gives my Lyra Delos a run for its money. I'm using the aluminum arm wand Bruce recommended for this high compliance cartridge.
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@ct0517
I loved the analogy too.
@frogman
Congrats on the long I-beams. Let us know what you hear with them.
The VDH Black Beauty SPX is not quite broken in yet but I'm becoming a huge VDH fan. Right out of the box it had a luscious midrange without the lost detail I experienced with the MC-1. The Black Beauty SPX is a large upgrade from the MC-1 Special.
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PPS: Then, again maybe the government is correct. How else can we explain how obsessive compulsive we ET II audiophiles are.
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Hi Chris,
Regarding my mod to get weight to the end of the plank for lighter cartridges, see the last picture on my virtual system page. I'll try to describe here. Go to your local auto tire store and get some stick-on wheel weights used on magnesium or aluminum wheels. Take the base weight off of the ET weight clamp. A portion of the wheel weight can be fashioned to exactly fit in the groove in the ET weight clamp. Once this is done it is simply trial and error to trim the remaining portion of the wheel weight to the correct weight for your plank and cartridge.
The stick-on weights come in a single bar that is perforated so one, two or three can be broken off according to how much weight you need. I started with two and shaped one to fit the groove, then trimmed what remained to get the correct weight. Hope this is intelligible.
PS: Lead weights are easier to work with but harder to find here in the lower colonies since the government has decided that just touching lead will make us all brain damaged.
Cheers,
Harry |
@ct0517
Chris,
Thought you and others might be interested in these two exchanges I had with Bruce about a lighter base weight. Perhaps, if the folks here on this forum make enough noise with Bruce he will make us some light base weights.
Harry
On 2/15/2018 4:37 PM, Harry wrote:
> Hello Bruce,
> Rumor has it over on the Audiogon forum you are working on a lighter base weight to accommodate the long I-Beam with lighter weight cartridges. This to get weight near the end of the I-Beam. Any idea when they will be available and price? I’d like to purchase one.
Harry,
We are not working on a lighter base weight, the existing base weight should be ideal for most applications, Chris had a very light cartridge and I sent him a smaller weight to test.
Are people finding that the base weight is too much? Thanks
-brucet
This in response to the picture I sent him of the weight I made.
Harry,
That looks nice, if there is enough demand we can make a few weights, there has been good demand for the long I-beam.
If the weight is heavier than the wand plus cartridge, it should be positioned on the inside of the I beam, if it is lighter, it should be positioned on the outside of the I beam away from the manifold as shown in your photo. You might add that information to you description.
This is to balance the torque load on the air bearing. Thanks
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@slaw
Well..........I had never thought about that coincidence. But now that you mention it, it is kind of ironic. I promise I am not Harry W in disguise. I have enjoyed my VPI HW 19 (now MK IV) for over 20 years so VPI seemed an appropriate moniker especially since the HW 19 is so well suited to the ET II.
Harry
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@slaw
For some reason, several months back Bruce took out the link to all of the upgrade parts for the ET II. But I think they are all still available. Just email him and he will be very helpful.
In fact if you google ET II magnesium arm or ET II carbon fiber arm you will find pages with them on there. You just can't get there from Bruce's main site.
Harry
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Yes, I know this is an ET II forum but I can't restrain my recent good fortune. A family member just gave me a Garrard 301 for my birthday. It is complete with a Garrard arm. As much as I love my VPI HW 19 (which I will keep and become a two turntable kind'a guy), this is a turntable I have lusted after for nearly 40 years. Since it comes to me at no cost I can spend some $$ on an arm. I know that while Chris is reluctant to admit it, he does have some pivoted arms. Do y'all have any recommendations for an arm for this table. The plinth is not an issue as I will be replacing the original Garrard plinth. Perhaps with a new plinth it would even accommodate an ET II, but I'd like to hear your opinions.
NOSTALGIA
Many years ago there was a high end store in Soutn Dade county, Florida run by a very eccentric owner (I think his name was Larry). He had a 301 mounted in (believe it or not) a huge butcher block. One of those that is a freestanding table that sits in the middle of your kitchen. Not sure what arm he was running, but it was S shaped - probably an SME. I have no recollection of the cartridge he was using but I have a long standing recollection that, at the time (40 years ago), it was the best sounding vinyl I had ever heard.
Harry |
@shfinne
I'll have to look into that London Decca. What table do you have it on?
Harry
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@slaw @ct0517
Yes, the solid plinths are outrageous. Found a source in Austria that is about half what the US sources get. It will be about a month to get the plinth then it's off to STS turntables in Nashville for refurb.
I decided on an Ortofon TA 110 arm. Please don't excommunicate me. I'm keeping my ET II. If nothing else I can stare at my Garrard with Ortofon while I listen to my VPI with ET II.
@frogman
No competition from me on the next ET II on EBay.......at least for a while.
Cheers,
Harry |
@ct0517
Thanks for the encouragement Chris.
"What you are doing Harry is a healthy audiophile exercise."
Healthy!? Healthy!? Sure not healthy for my wallet :). But, damn, it's fun. I'm very anxious to get the plinth and have the TT refurbed and mounted.
Of course for a guy with a Verdier cost is no object. Tee Hee.
Cheers,
Harry
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@ct0517
Chris,
My comment regarding your
Verdier was unadulterated envy. I confess my infatuation with the 301's is in large part visual. Current projections indicate when all said and done I should have less than $2500 in it with total mechanical refurb, very nice solid wood plinth (furniture) and a nearly new arm. The paint on the chassis is nearly mint so no expense for a paint job.
When my project is complete I hope it provides enjoyable listening too.
I suspect I will end up with cartridges that tend more to the vintage sound than my Delos and VDH Black Beauty.. Perhaps even some MM or MI, but the proof will be in the listening.
Harry
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Chris,
No cats, no kids, just one medium mongrel and my wife. Wish we were closer too, but I try to be an honest kind of guy and I'm not sure I would trust myself to give it back to you. If closer, I'd be content to just hear it in your room. I'd bring the wine and whiskey.
Cheers,
Harry
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Long I-Beam Lovers
I mentioned a while back I had inquired of Bruce about a lighter base weight. He replied he might make some if there was enough demand. Well, today a cut down base weight arrived from Bruce. Without the bolt it gets me to the extreme end of the long I-Beam. I was already about 1/2 inch from the end. That extra half inch has again improved the bass response and midrange richness. I don't think better customer service exists in the industry.
Harry
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