Well, curiosity killed the cat as they say. I have confirmed that if you send Bruce your original manifold he will replace your damaged VTA Block including the VTA Arc Block. The VTA blocks are on either side of the VTA arc block, the VTA arc
block is the part with the curved surface and rack, yes we put in the
new part (rack of teeth) for $300.00
-brucet
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Note: The picture linked in the previous post is the result of a ..Type B Personality.....Madman.
This is my personal opinion.
It is an extreme case of abuse, and does not represent normal wear and tear.
*************************
I need to make this clear because I got emails asking such.
The real story here, IMO, is that even this kind of setup abuse can be resolved / fixed by Bruce due to the design of the ET2.
Cheers
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Auction for a rare 2.5.from the ebay ad. It features the large diameter spindle which is designed to operate at air pressures up to 19psi, The larger diameter spindle was designed for MC carts. Both the 2.0 and 2.5 can be set up by Bruce for 19 psi. Note: It only comes with the aluminum armtubes which work better with the 2.0, and MM carts; but you do get two, so one can be sent to Bruce to convert to carbon fiber for MC Carts. One way you can tell it is a 2.5; the end cap I Beam side is flush with the spindle and not overlapping it. Not associated with the auction - good luck to those watching.
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It only took me 20 years to get it setup right. Better to be late for the party..... *^) than not to show up....... 8^( Since this thread started I have been contacted by numerous people wanting to join this party, but they are too intimidated. Now the funny thing (I find), is that I tell them the same thing I used to tell companies I used to consult for. To become and stay leading edge, you need to spend some time on the bleeding edge. And IMO, the very nature of public chat forum talk, is that there is mostly posts about bleeding; lets face it, these posts are more entertaining; and people asking for advice and sharing info to help and stop the bleeding. But it can be intimidating to those not familiar with what we are discussing. |
A dozen bidders already. The 2.0 in good shape sell for $800 - $1000 without the pump system. This one is at $660 already. That is $814 in Cdn dollars. ********* Pegasus
This is the reflex thought that I heard often, When people come over if interested in the turntable. I let them feel the tonearm - without air. They see how much movement there is (nothing without force). I tell them wait a second and go turn on the air. Try it again. I say. They move the spindle in and out again with the air on. It actually "freaks" a few of them out. "Holy crap" "Holy shite" common language heard. |
John the ebay ad wording this is an upgraded** Eminent Technology ET2.5 Air Bearing Tonearm implies to me that it is an original ET 2.0, whose manifold and spindle were sent to Bruce. An ET 2.5 Manifold and Spindle returned to the previous owner. This can also explain why there are two aluminum arm wands. All other parts I Beam, Arm Plate Mount / VTA Block, Joint (Gooseneck) are shared between the two versions. It is rare to find a 2.5 manfiold/spindle for sale in auctions. If I were building from used purchases a 2.5, or for that matter even the 2.0; I would still be ordering from Bruce the upgraded aluminum gooseneck (joint), mounting plate ......and the long beam :^)
** the Ebay ad wording of "upgraded" is also misleading. If one plays MM cartridges the 2.0 is the better choice. All depends on which the listener prefers.
If I recall buried in this thread somewhere, there are close to 3000 ET tonearms out there. How many would there have been if the ET 2.0 tonearm was not introduced the same year as the perfect sound (cd). 8^0 |
I wanted that manifold, damn it! If one considers how a airplane takes off, goes up, and stays in the air, as a kind of magic.... then there is real magic happening inside this ET 2 manifold. Unlike "hybrid" air bearing tonearms, which use an air bearing in one plane, but need a mechanical (other) bearing in the other plane to work properly, this ET 2 is a full 360 air bearing. One of the Holy Craps in my previous post came from an Ontario Kuzma Airline owner, when he commented on the smoothness of the bearing. A Rockport tonearm owner on this forum, called the ET2 bearing "slippery" in comparison. Just saying. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ***************** $1805 US dollars = $2222 Canadian dollars :^( |
The challenges for a designer/manufacturer are "the manifold". |
I discovered a limitation of the long I Beam with really light cartridges.
I’ve made an earnest attempt to get through some of my collection of unplayed records the last couple of weeks. Decided a couple of days ago to start using Room 2, to trial records and mark the ones for play in Room 1. I still have the Acutex 420 str mounted on an ET 2.0 HP with aluminum armtube in room 2 on an SP10 MKII.
With just the base ET2 weight on there that fits into the groove of the clamp, I can’t get past the midpoint on the new long I Beam. Physics.
The cartridge is just too light.
So I contacted Bruce and he told me this is something new, and the good thing is he is going to have a lighter version of the base weight made to accommodate the longer I Beam. For those of you running at say 3/4 on the I beam - this may get to the end of the plank. I think I recall Harry modding his base weight to get to the end of the I Beam - but not sure.
.
Good record playing weather.
Cheers
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Harry
give me your distance from it, and I will measure with my spl meter and post the number in an hour. |
Styrk
is there a reason that you are not using an existing post with armboard on the RX 1500?
The ET 2.5 mounting plate spikes form a triangle that is larger than the hole in the armboard. So the armboard can be used. All that is needed is a longer mounting bolt, thick Fender washer and locking nylon bolt. All Stainless Steel, from the bolts store.
I have only ever used the straight line jig anywhere on the platter, to mount the ET tonearm. Pivoting armboards make this very easy. For a full plinth TT put the assembled tonearm on the plinth without spikes. One person holds and adjusts the positioning of ET tonearm, while the other person positions the straight line jig which is hooked on the spindle. Once the cart lines up - use painters tape around the mounting plate - on three sides You’re done.
As long as your Cartridge "Walks the Line".
*****************
As far as dimensions for reference.
If you download the ET 2 Manual Pt. 2 from Bruce’ website - at the end are some mounting dimensions for Sota,Oracle and VPI.
Chris
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The problem is not to "walk the line" the problem is walk the line without interfering with the other arm's Styrk - Sounds like you are setting up for a tonearm "party" :^0 You know - Years ago I tried different TT's with multiple tonearms on them. On three occasions. These were two full plinths and one setup using armpods. The party/experiments for me failed because I would only end up playing the ET2 after some comparisons. To those interested, I could only get the other tonearms to sound like the ET2 on two parts of the record; you know what I mean ..... when the presentation is really in focus, on those two points when a pivot arm alignment hits the sweet spot on a record. Hearing this phenomena using familiar LP's with these other tonearms, was interesting, in an audiophile way, but also the end of the road for them. Just saying. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ In my record collection I do have many mono records - have found over 100 so far and counting , so the plan would be to put my second ET2 on the La Platine in a custom install someday, to listen to these records with a mono cart. ************** For anyone reading here that doesn't understand what we mean when we say "Walking the line". See here. It's a straight, but lonely road. Walk the Line |
Styrk - came across this picture of a ET 2.0 on an RX 1500. It has an XV1 on it, and a custom armboard. RX-1500, ET 2.0, Dyna XV1 The discussion for the picture, including some armboard details can be found here. They discuss 2.5 but that is a 2.0 in the picture as can be seen by how the end cap overlaps the spindle. Hope this helps. Chris |
Styrk
I reached out to Bruce about your setup yesterday.
Today he sent me the drawings/dimensions for your table.
Send me a pm with your email and I will send them to you
or
contact Bruce direct, remind him of our AudioGon discussion here and he can send the drawing to you direct.
His email
(brucet@eminent-tech.com)
Chris
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Harry - Lead is banned north of the 49th parallel too, but two smaller weights still made it to my mailbox from Florida. 8^0
Both are smaller than the original grooved weight. The larger one brought things to the end of the plank for my MC Freedom Fighter cart. The smallest weight Bruce sent allowed for positioning a couple inches from the end with the 420 str. Still a ways to go. That tells you how light this Cracker Jack box cart really is. Will trim it down some, I mean the lead weight.....(using gloves).
Bruce told me the lead is cut on a band saw and then they are milled to the shape.
***********
Always fascinated by the amount of heft in the armtube/cart with the little weight removed off the I Beam. Add that tiny weight and it all balances out. The long beam eliminates the need for the multiple thin flat weights and the long bolt that they slid onto. I believe the one original grooved weight will balance the heavyweight XV1 .
The smallest detail (I Beam) that no pro reviewer ever understood enough to discuss, has the most dramatic effect on this tonearm.
As one ages, Physics becomes more and more a stark reality. I work on projects outside which involve moving weight. With my knees fragile from running, and no one around to help you. (I thought this was the reason to have kids - :^( .....)
We look for ways to manipulate the weight using Physics.
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Since it comes to me at no cost I can spend some $$ on an arm.
The plinth is not an issue as I will be replacing the original Garrard plinth. Perhaps with a new plinth it would even accommodate an ET II, but I’d like to hear your opinions.
Hi Harry - for some reason, I am reminded of the guy that has an ad in the "For Sale Boat Section"; This guy is offering a free boat, but he wants $1500 for the trailer. The boat needs a new floor and seats. But the engine is ok. Not many people I know, know how to do upholstery. 8^0 A proper idler plinth is $$$$. Unless you have a shop and plinth building skills, unlike a self contained DD unit which leaves many options, there is a learning curve with a idler. He had a 301 mounted in (believe it or not) a huge butcher block." 8^0 One way to deal with those idler vibrations. I went down this path myself years ago Harry. Its exciting but I did not have the time, the shop, to acquire the learning curve. I let someone else do the legwork for me. Jean Nantais. Google him if not familiar with the name and my sample is shown in a few pics on my virtual system. See Pic 10 with the ET II on it. My table has an interesting history. It was JN’s personal table at one point. I bought it off a friend of his. ************ Me thinks Frogman will have competition from Styrk and Harry on the next ET 2.5 auction - 8^0 Happy B Day Harry - my B day is this week as well. ************ Pegasus
On the website of the Adanalog MG1 arm – which is similar to the ET2 Pegasus from what I see the MG1 has a moving manifold. The ET2’s manifold is stationary. Just this difference brings very different design considerations. Apples and Oranges. |
If nothing else I can stare at my Garrard with Ortofon while I listen to my VPI with ET II. If me Harry, I would first put your ET II on the Garrard using the quick install technique I described; then you can hear for yourself what the Garrard (the table itself) brings to the table. Apples to Apples. Anyway, that is what I did with my Jean Nantais Lenco. It actually came with the Dynavector tonearm. Jean Nantais’ preferred tonearm. An impressive, freaky looking thing that Dyna tonearm. He was surprised when I sent him pics of the table with the ET 2.5 on it. hah hah So my JN Lenco table is just sitting there, can be stared at as you say. It doesn’t bother me, not using it, because unlike digital DAC’s and CD players, it holds its value.....these days better than my oil stocks ! So I haven’t sold it off yet. Record players are so in vogue. IMO - What you are doing Harry is a healthy audiophile exercise. I was happy enough with my at the time TNT TT, but My JN Lenco Idler table upped the game in a couple areas and forced me to make improvements to the modded TNT (adding thread), and also my SP10 DD setup (better isolation). So for a time the JN lenco, with the 2nd ETII on it, became a reference point for me. It’s been quite a number of years now . The JN table can be sent to him in Ottawa to have the latest updates made to it, but the delta that exists with the Verdier is just too large, for me, so I have not bothered doing it. |
shfinne -
I ended up using all 40g leads on a 10g cartridges and with 2.5 g tracking
the lead mounted on the outside of the I-beam and the rood pointing inwards the I end up mid on the I-beam scale. As kids, the teeter totter taught us good physics lessons. Remember trying to ride it with an adult. They had to sit up in front of the seat closer to the midpoint of the beam. It was no fun this way. Even worse when they did sit in the seat, were in control, and were nasty and jumped off quickly, allowing us to fall to the ground fast and hard.The teeter totter is the most fun when both riders are on the end of the seats, same weight.. Option One Start losing the bodies (lead) off the end of the plank, to get to the highest number on the I Beam. This is documented in the manual. This will give your cartridge the highest vertical inertia. Option Two - preferred. Get the new long I beam, and with the help of physics, you will need 1/2 the lead or less, to attain the same result. My XV1 is 12.6 grams. |
vpi - cost is no object. Harry -the vintage Platine Granito is pure machine. Every part has its purpose. There are $25k Garrard setups being sold. How much of that cost - percentage - is in getting that finished furniture/car look on those plinths ? Sorry but could not resist ..... Design is important. But when it comes to TT setups. A well setup less cost TT can out perform a more expensive one that is not set up right. Its not plug and play as we know. But in the end based on my experiences, and in all my hobbies not just this one, the better design has the most potential when done right. |
Harry - I don’t get envious, as far as I know, but I do wish my knees were in better shape. If you were closer I would let you borrow it over the summer when I am floating on the water. As long as your space is Kitty Proof. Cats like string.
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Guys. I managed to snag a Timeter Aridyne 2000 for $200 and only 290 hours on it. Here is a video (not mine) of a 2000 model managing two ventilators.....LOL . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-XrKsjUN_gI can kind of imagine myself (some days) on the end of one of those ... there is two ventilators there...does anyone else need some air ? My Timeter 3000 as those who have been on this thread over the years know, has had what I will call "surgeries" performed on parts of the piping to keep it going. The task of getting through my collection had me a little worried on its long term health. It was an old used pump system when I acquired it many years ago, but it still trumped Jun Air and others I looked at with its engineering and Coalescing filtration system My thanks to @banquo363 for finding this one for me. ****** I showed the video to my wife and told her a similar unit should be arriving Monday. She gave me the "I think you have lost your mind look", until I told her it's for the tonearm downstairs. then she just left the room.....................works for me. |
Steve - these Timeters are available online anywhere from $150 - 300 US dollars. And in the USA so you will not be paying the crazy shipping cost, dollar exchange that I paid. They are serious hospital grade 24/7 units that are run to XXXXX hours then I believe just replaced with new units, as their lease, rental comes due. Hence their availability for purchase online from re-sellers, surplus dealers, etc... Ask about the hours if not listed in the ad, but for our hobby use, even 6-8 hours per day - it (high hours) is not of concern. they are $3500 US new.
I did not mean to conjure up thoughts of the "end" in my previous post. I was thinking more along the lines of being "winded". LOL
I am not ready to go yet. But I know it’s not up to me.
Harry - I am using one small weight/no bolt and am at the very end also on the main rig. This is the way it was meant to be. Also to give you an idea how light the 420str cart is - take the small weight Bruce sent you and cut it in half one more time. That is what is needed.
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I thought your post was funny. fwiw I have a very dry sense of humor.
What I don't get is how I can run for X kilometers every day, steady heart rate and go for a long time, up inclines and down... ..but if I run up the stairs one time, in the middle of the day, I am going to need that ventilator in the video.......no joke.
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Came into my inbox this morn. $65.00 only 534 hours. If someone is interested just verify with seller that the Timeter compressor runs in the green. The picture of the performance gauge shows red. It was probably just turned on. Pickup from a North Carolina location. |
Harry - my timeter 3000 resides in the bowels of our basement in a corner. A lonely place. Every fall when listening season starts, I make my way down there. You know, I can swear I thought I saw a troll down there one year? So I have removed some of the insulation out of mine years ago. It is louder than normal, but this is not a problem due to the distance. If I hold the SPL meter 1 foot away from the box it says 68-70 db. • 10 dB: Normal breathing • 20 dB: Whispering from five feet away • 30 dB: Whispering nearby • 40 dB: Quiet library sounds • 50 dB: Refrigerator • 60 dB: Electric toothbrush • 70 dB: Washing machine • 80 dB: Alarm clock • 90 dB: Subway train • 100 dB: Factory machinery • 110 dB: Car horn • 120 dB: Ambulance siren ********************* Now @banquo363 posted db level using his 2000 Model Timeter
It hasn't been bastardized like mine. from that link 1. in the same room, from 6ft away: 64dB 2. from the other side of the wall, with door closed: 52dB. 3. from my seat ~40ft away, I can't hear it at all. |
Harry - I understand. Something to consider if one has limited space, one floor. These units are highly mobile - like a serving cart as they are on wheels. One fellow I know keeps it covered with a vase/flower on top out of the way. When he uses it he rolls it to a corner room. He has the air tube line attached close to the wall board like the cable TV company line going to this room so his wife does not get upset. Hooks up the air line and plugs it into the AC. Then when done rolls it back out of the way and covers it up again.
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Let’s be clear here. i am referencing Timeter ARIDYNE compressors only. No other line. Did you not own a PCS 414 or something along that level ? Correct me if I am wrong as I am going by memory. That line is used for dispensing medical product. Its an Apples and Oranges comparison. Allied Health Care which makes Timeter, manufacturers many compressors for various needs. ******************* Also we are not discussing buying these Aridynes from Allied Health Care or one of their dealers. They are being purchased from surplus dealers, resellers for 5-10% of what they cost new. Its plug and play, no water to collect in a bottle for humid areas, and highly mobile. |
I gave you my opinion on my experiences with the Timeter Aridyne 3000, which I had acquired used. I had a virtual system even then, and you could see the model.
I don't work for Timeter, am not familiar, still to today, with all the products they make, and frankly don't need to know. I provide opinions on gear I actually own, or have owned.
I would assume anyone buying anything, that is another model, yet alone a different line of product from a company, is doing the research themselves on the unit, before acquiring it.
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Harry et al (excl. Slaw) lol
my T- A - 2000 was due for delivery today .......is stuck at the border.
The people I am paying real money to..... to walk it across "the line" are not sure what is going on. They say they need to get back me.
Seems a good example to me....of excellence in action.
How does this country survive ?
I don't have eyes on the border. Did he (you know who I mean) put up any walls recently ?
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"Stuck at the Border" - The True Meaning.
I recently learned, that the border "line" in shipping, is a lot like the "line" used to set up an ET2...
You see.....either "line" (the border-line, or ET2 set up-line) can be moved and put anywhere as long as certain conditions are met.
The above border - line, is defined and possible because of the magic of the "Bonded" carrier.
*******************
My case in point. (just sharing )
The border "line" turned out to be, not the physical US/Canada border itself or even near it; but a warehouse less than one hour from my house, and more than a couple hours away from the physical border.
The Freight Company electronic shipment status proved frustrating as the Item in Question - My T-A-2000, is shown as being in this town warehouse, close to me, with a status of "Available for Delivery".
The frustration mounts as the days go by and no change in status. Meanwhile inquiries with the Logistics Company people are fruitless, as when they say "stuck at the border", they smartly keep this border-line information to themselves ....until you dig further.
Due for delivery later today.
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I guess they can't find a plane coming this way. Show them the money Harry....and a plane will appear out of thin air. IMO - In our Audio Hobby - the rich one $$$ wise, can never find Audio Nirvana, due to being a "frequent flyer" with gear....just too much choice and temptation on a revolving door......but he does get his gear sent to him in the quickest time. 8^0 The shipping on the Aridyne 2000 due to its weight had to go LTL, and cost 2 times more than what I paid for it, using the cheapest method..... the slow boat as they say - and this for ground shipping. |
Hi Brad - you need to be very careful working with and around the machined plug on a stock ET2 tonearm. You would be like we are fond of saying here....... "Poking at the Sleeping Bear" I provide this info from Bruce.... also for anyone that has any ideas of removing and -reinstalling the machined plug ********** If someone removes the 5 pin plug and runs wire straight through the spindle the air bearing will usually work fine. We made a special tool to remove the plugs, you might get lucky with a long screwdriver and you might bend pins on the opposite side of the plug in the attempt.
We do not sanction field removal and re-installation of the 5 pin plug. The spindle is an aluminum tube with very flexible walls, keep in mind that the spindle needs to remain concentric to work as an air bearing. Adhesives typically expand slightly while curing, if the plug is not machined concentric to the spindle during the cure, the air bearing will not perform well where it is needed most (at that end of travel) and a bad air bearing reflects poorly on us.
I hope this helps - brucet ************ fwiw When I had Bruce build my 19 PSI, 2.5 I specified no machined plug as I had my own one shot wiring. As you know, the first upgrade many people do with their ET2 is wire one shot - from the armtube direct into the phono stage direct, bypassing the air bearing spindle, and the extra connections. Even Bruce runs this way into - what was an SP11mkII the last time I conversed with him on it. Running through the spindle was, I assume, a business decision, based on the turntables that were been equipped with an ET2 at the time it came out.... in the Early Years. Same year the perfect sound (CD) was introduced 8^0 |
^^^^^^^
Brad,
in hindsight and fwiw. Consider this.
My first ET2 years ago was a stock one. Over time, once I had it working well, I finally opened up the "Book Of Bruce" ...BOB ....and read it through... instead of giving it a cursory look over in sections, the first few times. I then refined my setup again.
That stock ET2 outperformed..... Trumped .......
Dynavector, FR64s, VPI 12 and Micro Seiki tonearms that I had.
That’s in stock mode.
So my advice based on my experiences, is to have patience with what you have and build experience with it. Now definitely get a couple Long I Beams from Bruce (Single and Double Springs). The Long I Beam is inexpensive in terms of cost, but huge in terms of performance; and is how it was meant to be, if not for business constraints .... those dreaded dustcovers.
Then .....if one is still in Audiophile mode after this, consider the options which include.
Direct Shot wiring - very easy setup on an ET2. Just bypass existing wiring.
The Aluminum mounting base
Aluminum Gooseneck (Joint).
Carbon Fiber Armtube. works with MM and MC carts.
Magnesium (Mag) armtube. Lower compliance MC carts.
High Pressure Manifold.
Conversion to 2.5 (if Bruce still does this - not sure)
You didn’t say if yours was a 2.0 or 2.5. If you use mostly MC carts, the 2.5 is preferred, larger spindle is lower in resonance to deal better with MC carts as discussed here. If you use MM carts I would stick with the 2.0.
My 2 cents
***********************
So when is Spring coming guys ? I heard the Yankees and Mets baseball games were snowed out this week ?
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@bdp24 Eric not sure if you saw the question above. Can you please provide more detail on how you created this tank circuit? I have had a couple emails asking about this circuit. If you have any information on this, pls post. Thanks Chris Hope this post finds everyone well. Stay Safe, Social Distance, Stay Well . |
vpi - Chris who I assume is still snowed in. Not funny Harry. this is a Spring unlike any I can ever remember. "Snowed in" is not an accurate phrase. What was falling was granular, like sand. Picture the desert, then imagine trying to shovel white sand. Then it decides to rain, Temp hits 0 celsius 32 F and a crust forms on the snow, so thick you can walk on it without going through. Try shoveling that. The only ones more confused than me seem to be the dark Robins standing on it looking for nesting material. Cruel. Todays temps of 8 degrees C 46 F will create a big mess. Congratulations on your new setup Harry. Enjoy. Glad it arrived safely by slow boat. Boy, what I would give for some boating weather right about now. Now, I don’t want to be the one to tell you this, but you do realize don’t you, that one day, that "Come to Jesus" moment will arrive. Oh yeah, it will come be assured, as long as you remain in Audiophile mode. It will taunt you, till you can no longer resist. You will succumb to it, we all do, and you will be forced to mount your ET2 on the new table; to find out the real truth. You will be startled at how much the table brings to .......the table .... heh heh An Apples to Apples comparison with the VPI, for Mr. VPI .... 8^0 . Happy :Listening |
Sounds like you’re having fun Harry ? IMO - When we introduce a new turntable setup we increase the variations factor ten fold due to different TT stands, Tables, Tonearms, Carts, Gear (loading), etc.... For this reason although changing out an armtube might help a little, it may not be the silver bullet due to the many variations you have introduced. Words in describing what we are hearing mean different things to each of us. for example. You used the words bright, etched, and smooth. To me - bright, etched implies detail is there, but there is setup issues somewhere. Smooth to me implies, nice but rolled off extremities. HF, LF. How are you setting up these different carts on different tonearms and tables. Are you loading them ? Does your preamp have adjustable gain ? ************************ vpi - I don’t envy your "spring". Well ,the way I see it, it all evens out Harry. In summer when you are forced inside due to the oppressive heat, I will be fishing on a lake that I can drink the water from.....well...except if that one buddy shows up with the bad prostate that can’t hold it in, and needs to piss from the boat. Then all bets are off. So does you idler run fast when set in the middle of the factory default 33 1/3 setting ? |
I run my MC carts with no load at 47k also. I have found that with adjustable gain, with those LPs that are recorded brighter if I turn down the gain a bit, I don't have to fiddle with VTA. With digital and its high compression on many albums this feature is invaluable.
My Lenco idler I thought was at speed at the factory slot setting of 33 1/3, but when I measured it with the tachometer I found it was set to run fast and it needed to be dialed down. I found this on a couple other decks too. Reason I asked.
Thought you were located where it got real hot. My bad. The mountains sound great.
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Bdp24
Brooks Berdan was a big fan of the Oracle Delphi (he even came up with a mod for it, which Oracle ended up copying), to which he mounted many of the Eminent Technology arm. But when the HW-19 (and then the TNT) was introduced, he switched allegiance to that high mass design for use with the ET, feeling it provided a better platform for the moving mass of the arm’s wand. here is an Oracle ET combo here. Remember, there are over 2500 Et2’s out there. I suspect more and more vinyl combos to come available in the near future, as some owners have passed on, or are at that point in time where "convenience" with Audio has become the most important priority to them. bdp24 (Eric) I never owned the Canadian Oracle, but did own the Harry Weisfeld Mark 4 Piano Black and the more expensive TNT (which was designed as we know in a collaboration between Harry VPI and Bruce - ET. That collaboration ended, as all business relationships do; I suspect when Harry introduced his own tonearm. Both these tables HW19-4 and TNT were designed and built to certain price points. In analysis (past) of manufacturer turntable builds in general, I have noticed that "one" of the areas that designers put their focus on as price levels increase, is in the table’s tolerances. If one is in Audiophile Mode and looking for more performance, for either the stock HW19 and TNT, having owned them; improvements can be made to elevate the ET2 performance by upgrading the turntable’s 1) Bearing 2) Suspension (4 pods on the TNT) 3) Rubber belt drive system. For myself I discovered that these areas were a type of bottleneck to my ET2’s performance, in my system kit and space at that time. This became the most evident to me after the ET2 was put on other tables, SP10MKII and Nantais Lenco, with the same cartridge in my space; as well as being compared with Tape R2R - 15 IPS, Pic 28 in my virtual system shows what mods I ended up when I owned the TNT, to allow it to come closer to the speed stability of the SP10 and the Nantais Lenco groove factor. |
Bdp24 - too d*mn big there are no such words in the Audiophile world. Too big is also a relative thing. You want big ....come see my Jean Nantais Lenco. You will have a Come to Jesus moment. For some its been their only religious moment. Picture this..ah actually no, see pic 8 Goldilocks and the Three Turntables. So it has by design to deal with those nasty idler resonances, hollowed out cavities under the motor, and both armboards; and it still weighs 100 lbs. Bdp24 - the expensive VPI’s use the same cr*ppy Hurst motor as the cheapest! If an Audiophile does not like their outboard motor, or their controller, it’s a very easy thing to swap out, or bypass it (in the case of the HW19). Changing out the bearing structure DNA is however another matter. You know, in real estate they like to say Location, Location, Location. Well with turntables and tonearms, it’s the Bearing, Bearing, Bearing.... . ********************** Regarding your Aries TT Eric. As a drummer IMO you owe it to yourself, to go to Fabricland, pick up some Silk thread and hear what thread driven drum shots sound like, compared to the rubber belt. |
Slaw -
ct0517,
Have you ever tried different motors on the VPI TTs you’ve owned? Slaw Regarding motors. I did research on a number of motors, and this included the possibility of using the SP10mkII as a motor/controller, placed beside the TNT; also considered an SL1200 I owned that I used to lend out to people over the years. I came to a dilemma with the TNT. The string/thread drive experiments were a revelation; I was a convert to it, and to improve on the setup I had, required a pulley and platter/bearing system more designed for thread. Ideally the pulley groove needs to be very small due to the diameter of the thread to work best. You can get thread drive to work with a Belt pulley well, as we have discussed here, but the TNT pulley was designed for a rubber belt. See these pictures. The belt pulley is on the left. The thread pulley on the right https://photos.app.goo.gl/8RtPVapcxiB1xHrL7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/fQtGRhfGVUz71Kjx8Due to the lack of candidates, instead of further modding the TNT , I chose to pursue a TT that was designed specifically for thread drive. I did own the TNT for a period after acquiring La Platine and did try the Verdier motor with it and vice versa in failed experiments. This was interesting and I can provide more detail if anyone likes. The Original Platine Granito (like mine) was designed for Thread Drive only. I assume to drum up more sales in later years, Mr. Verdier added the Belt pulley option to appease those folks that wanted it. :^( ************************************ flemke - thanks for posting your video. You have an ET 2.0 with the HPM. I like the way you set up your wiring around the plinth area. Very little effect on the bearing. Some go wrong (imo) and try to imitate the Kuzma design with the wires up and over from the cart. This setup I have found effects the spindle/bearing with pushes and pulls. This is ok on the Kuzma design as it needs the wires and air tube for damping. The ET2 however is a different design and does not rely on damping from wires and tubing. It’s an ideal candidate for a wireless bluetooth cartridge/preamp if it ever gets invented. Recommend you get Bruce’ long I Beam. The weight requirement on your own modded I Beam would be cut in half. ************************************* @bdp24 I have to tell you that you are a type of Audio enigma to me. You see, from your posts on this forum, you appear to be a big fan of Bruce’;, yet as a vinyl guy you do not own the product he makes that IMO is above all others in design and operation. Did our antics on this thread intimidate you in any way ? 8^0 |
Eric very happy to hear that it was a turntable limitation and not our ramblings on this thread, that prevented you from getting an Et2. I chose the Townshend Rock as my turntable because of my love of the Decca/London pickup; the Rock is THE table for the those pickups, for reasons I won’t go into here. It may be a really good table for that cartridge, I don’t doubt you at all; but you also know that Decca’s own reference tonearm is a Linear tracker. But since I prioritize the pickup over the arm, and the Rock is the best table for the pickup, never got myself an ET arm. I differ from you here on how to prioritize table, tonearm, cart - My take on it and opinion. My personal findings have been through my own number of carts, tonearms and tables - in my own space. Not at shows, or dealer salons, or other folks set ups, and or reviews. My experiments with putting the same tonearm, cartridge set up well, on different tables and hearing this after various mods. Better ----> Worse --------> Better -----> Different -------> Better --------> Different ------> Worse ---------> Better (one should always end up with better in the end) 8^0 Showed me very clearly how much role the table itself plays. In fact based on my findings. IMO, the better table, with a better tonearm and modest cartridge, set up well...... WILL..... outperform a very expensive cart on a more modest table and tonearm. No question. So if one is just starting out on an Audiophile Journey; I say stick with modest cartridges first, learn the table, tonearm relationship. Do your upgrades.....settle on a combo. Then go nuts on carts if they like. I do not deny that every cart one puts on changes the sound dramatically. I just think it is much easier to change out carts then whole turntables and tonearms. And with that if I ever get a another cart, a London is at the top of the list. Just remember. That very expensive cart is on a continual decline with hours played from Day One. Whereas I expect my turntable, and tonearm to outlast me. I can mount any cart I want on my ET 2.5. In summary I say - Invest in the table and tonearm and be done with it. Then have at it with various carts at a person’s desire. $$ ..to $$$$$ Just my 2 cents. ************** You have referred to the Trans fi Terminator tonearm a few times now. Can you clarify something for us Eric. Maybe for someone considering it. So from the website - It is a multi bearing (air and mechanical), sled based design where the air does not enclose 360 like the ET but rides under only. Re: its operation, my understanding is it does not swing away to load up a record ? A listening session for me is 6 or 7 records. .that means 12- 14 times I will place a record on the platter including flips. I don’t want that Cartridge anywhere near the record when loading. I need the tonearm/cartridge up and out of the way. |
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Why do you ask ? One of my pet peeves with the new format AudioGon Forum is dealer disclosure. Its optional. It should be mandatory. The other "pp" is not allowing us to have a linkable virtual system with forum talk, forcing us to use external links like google. Audiogon (Tammy) are you reading this ? Pegasus - thanks for clearing that up. |
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Listening session, sounds so serious.
I prefer....
Hey Zackary ! come on over for drinks and music !
...of course responsibility for providing the drinks and music belongs to Zackary.
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^^^
as far as cities go.
anyone that at the beginning of the hockey season, put good money on the Las Vegas Golden Knights - NHL (National Hockey League) to get into the Stanley Cup Final ....... .can today probably buy their own town, small city.........maybe private island in the tropics.
Vegas Knights NHL fans please don't take this for granted. The City of Toronto has been waiting for this event with their Toronto Maple Leafs since 1967.
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^^^
AWOL ?
Slaw, you were, imo, very wise to remove your hockey comment in your previous post. Otherwise I may have been forced to unleash Wile E Coyote on you ; 8^0
**************
This is just for Slaw only.
Game 1 result.
Vegas Golden Knights 6 - Washington Capitals 4
Vegas are 500 -1 odds ........ in Vegas.
$50 bet brings $25k
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Harry - my two cents.
with volume muted, let tonearm/cart down on a STILL record not moving.
unmute - start raising the volume. When the hum is noticeable.
Go to your loom and start moving the wires around one at a time, especially in back of the phono stage.
Does the hum get worse or better ?
If it changes, look for the best spot then use blue tac spots to help secure them in place. I use unshielded wire and my setup is quiet with this test, but I did have to spend some time initially moving the wires into the best position behind the preamp.
While you are there, also test for acoustic feedback; this time after you unmute and raise the volume, Start a dance in front/side/back of the turntable with no music - STILL record. What happens ?
If nothing. Good.
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A forum thread reminder.
It has been my experience on AudioGon, that derogatory comments are usually deleted by the moderator. No exceptions for anyone.
Maybe some of mine have been deleted in the past. I don't know as I never go back to check posts; unless i want to use one as a reference link, in a future post.
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Harry,
I came to a conclusion long ago, that this interference is not one large cloud that fills the room. It is pockets of smaller clouds, or picture those laser beams that protect valuables in a vault. This is obvious as you the move the interconnects and the levels change. The trick is to move the wires/IC’s between these pockets, lines of interference. One needs to be the most anal with wiring arrangement, especially with a turntable, when using Single Ended. Imagine using Single Ended with a large Class A amp that uses 450 watts at idle. With all that current there at idle, if there is a cable in a not so great position, this large amp coming to life will tell you.
Shielded IC’s color the sound and take from the small phono signal. It gets absorbed into the material. Depending on the cable manufacturer you get varying colors. This is going by memory from years ago but is as clear as if it was yesterday. I still do own Purist Audio interconnects. I have multiple looms. My first stock ET2 bypass went just past the turntable to the phono box ...then the Purist Audio IC’s to the preamp. I am not saying it did not sound good, but the straight in just good wire loom destroyed it. The Purist Audio IC’s are kept around for the Dynavector tonearm on the Jean Nantais Lenco TT.
If you did one day go to a straight loom, you would need a very short one based on how your gear is set up. This is good. The location of the phono inputs on your preamp is ideal. You want it coming off the tonearm, dropped down and then back up to the preamp. A happy face loop. So it helps if your preamp is on the same level with the turntable to help create that loop. Your performance in audiophile speak would go more live, immediate - Just saying. One of the things the straight loom brings. The ET2 begs for a straight loom with its design. I run mine outside of the tonearm entirely and braided along the armtube to reduce interference. The arm is set up in its entirety without wiring, then the wiring gets added. That way I know there is no wiring effect altering setup which it does do. The ET2 bearing is just too smooth, slippery. Some pull their hair out on setup due to this.
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Acoustic Feedback is always there, and with a turntable cartridge picking up this feedback and sending this signal through, it can create havoc as we know. Any turntable set up on a suspended floor, main floor, is not ideal and you will need to use various "band aids" to fix the sound. I knew one guy whose turntable set up was good, but his subwoofer was placed between the suspended wood beams that supported the floor. It sent vibrations through the floor to his table.
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vpi
I plugged in some longer ICs that I can move around. Moving them around makes a substantial difference but I can't listen standing on one leg with one cable around my left ear and the other between my toes. 8^0 As mentioned on this thread some time ago - these moves ^^^^ are known in the audiophile world, as "James Bond Maneuvers". Picture him in movies, trying to allude deadly laser beams as he tries to get to the precious in the vault, and out again. Buzzing, humming, represents the cancer in our hobby - imo. The lengths we go to, to eliminate these extraneous noises not on our source material, knows no bounds. May we all be grounded well and free of interference.... Thanks for proving my theory correct Harry. |
