Big news ET 2’rs. Remember this? http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1366738930.jpgThe "joint" affectionately called the Gooseneck here. It will soon be available for the ET 2.0, 2.5 tonearm as a match up with both Carbon Fiber and Magnesium armtubes. The really big news. The ET2 base that holds up the entire Et2 tonearm is ready now in Aluminum. Please contact Bruce directly if interested. ******************************************** IMO this would not have been possible without the increasing interest in the ET 2.0, 2.5. Air Bearing Tonearm. Some background When I was speaking with Bruce in late October and posted the last ET 2 Yellow Sticky ******* YELLOW STICKY ET 2 THREAD - FACTORY SETTING OF PSI - REGULAR AND HIGH PRESSURE MANIFOLDS ************ https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/eminent-technology-et-2-tonearm-owners?page=30(See the October 31 post on the linked page. This new format no longer allows one to link posts, just pages ) He did mention his plans for this; but wanted me to hold off until the first parts were ready. Very happy to pass this news to you all. |
Banquo363
I conjecture that the cause is the lack of rigidity at the contact point between the base and the two levelng screws. This holds especially for arms that have had their base abused by owners who overtighten the leveling screws and leave indentations in the base. Yes from my experience The ET2 has three, well four areas that are sensitive to setup abuse by new owners, and those who are not aware of how it works. The one you mention with the base and indentations from the vertical bolts from not being aware of how hard one has screwed those vertical screws down. All leveling should be done after bringing them both up to reset. They should never have to touched again after that. if they do, the base is warped from abuse and/or there is a good possibility a users turntable is going out of level. check there first. Anyway the aluminum base fixes this problem so is welcome. Very excessive force on the Post bolts and VTA block screws being over tightened and even closed. I ask what kind of madman causes something like this to happen ? http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1415022707.jpgThe VTA block rack of teeth have been stripped by using it when the block was shut closed, and the VTA block case itself destroyed but excessive force on the bolts. . A third being tightening the end cap I Beam cap bolt too tight could cause it to crack at the opening . I did this once years ago. A fourth extreme is the gooseneck. Maybe tightened too tight and left on for years. A user when going to remove the armtube, puts incorrect torque in the wrong place and could snap off the cueing lever. |
Here is a picture of Bruce’ new ET 2.0, 2.5 Aluminum Mounting Plate. https://goo.gl/photos/YMrLEFY46Rno5cs6AThere is also a picture of it on my Audiogon system link. unfortunately the new Audiogon format does not allow me to link to it in posts - yet. Mine is on its way. Cheers |
Bruce' new aluminum mounting plate weighs 39 grams on its own.
40 grams with the three spikes.
The original mounting plate 23 grams and 24 grams with spikes.
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If you guys recall, there was mention a while back on this thread that Bruce and his team were going to Africa with the BBC to test the hearing of Elephants using his TRW - 17 Rotary Sub. I've noticed some really cool pictures and footage of the trip to Africa have been uploaded to his rotary woofer website. I've linked them here. Infrasonic interaction with Elephants http://www.rotarywoofer.com/Africa.htmlBruce' team then went with the BBC to Florida to do testing with alligators. Provoking a mating dance from an alligator. http://www.rotarywoofer.com/Gators.htmlRotary Woofer Website http://www.rotarywoofer.com/Happy and safe New Year to everyone. |
Hello Raul - Feliz año nuevo and welcome to the thread. If I may make some comments to your post. Rauliruegas
One critical subject in the sound generated by any subwoofer is that we at home need enough cubic area for the bass soundwave can be in real way developed, if that cubic area does not exist any one can't " hear "/ feel a 5 hz soundwave. We need " hundred of m. to those very low bass sounwafes really be formed. Yes, I agree you can't defy physics when it comes to bass especially when someone is making a Subwoofer inside a BOX (enclosure) and placing it in a larger box "the room". One of the latest audiophile darlings. The Gotham by JL Audio reproduces 19hz - 200hz (+-) 3db Dimensions* (H x W x D): 34.13 in. x 21.50 in. x 24.00 in. 867 mm x 546 mm x 610 mm 360 lbs. (163 kg) $12,000 plus $3500 for the crossover. US dollars. Now in regards to this ET Rotary Subwoofer - it is thinking "outside of the box" and it is designed to take over where that JL Audio Gotham stops producing below 20hz. It uses that "extra room in a persons house" meaning , the basement, the attic, side room that the rotary woofer gets installed in - the room, space itself becomes the BOX - the infinite baffle ....the sealed enclosure..... Rauliruegas
Yes the ET unit is something really different of what we normal mortal audiophiles know So who is the customer for this? This rotary woofer is now being used in theme park attractions, concert venues, professional audio applications and research projects. But I think there are also possible clients for this product right here at Audiogon. Any potential customer for a start would need to have $12,000 US dollars for the Rotary Woofer which is similar to the JL Audio Gotham price. But from there an additional $8k -$12k for the design and installation. So approx $20k - $25K US dollars total which includes crossover and external amp. And of course this person (client) has a house with the space available for the installation of the Rotary Woofer to create this infinite baffle. For this, the person gets to hear and feel "the 11hz hertz fundamental frequency from a helicopter rotor, the low frequency rumble of wind, the space of a concert hall or infrasonic information contained in an explosion." taken from the website. Well this client is not me. But let us just imagine; this "guy" male customer (no woman would do such a thing right? ) but .......imagine this guys wife, spouse, better half coming home to see the inside walls of their beloved home doing this. http://www.rotarywoofer.com/africa%20photos/Africa%20Video%20Snapshots/Kombi%20Roof.gifthe above is from the Africa segment linked earlier. I got a good laugh - the video shows outside the van containing the Rotary Woofer working inside the van to attract the Elephants. And from that link's description. "With the rotary woofer playing a thunderstorm recording, the elephants all stopped eating and turned toward the camper van." Cheers |
My 21 year old son sent me a couple links today. I think inspired by his girlfriend..... I started laughing when I opened them up and I thought for a moment, maybe there is some hope for him ? had to post. http://imcedb.com/images/1/12/Indecent_stereo.pnghttp://imcedb.com/images/1/1c/Indecent_turntable.pngIndecent Proposal - Robert Redford - TNT turntable and ET 2.0 My son always liked my old TNT - told me it looked like a tarantula spider. Black is beautiful. When Bruce told me he was going to be making parts in aluminum I thought for a second maybe he was about to add some bling to the ET 2 tonearm in the form of shiny aluminum. But he stayed true to his low key self with the blacked out aluminum mounting plate. ET 2 owners - notice the correct placement of weights for bass in the first link.. Anyone know what the cartridge is in the second link.....a Benz ?
Happy Listening |
RichardKrebs
It shows all over again that the arm is very sensitive to the quality of the air supply. Richard - obvious agreement from me. I got sidetracked for a number of years (elapsed time) in my Audiophile phase PUMP journeys. Where does one stop ? It can be addicting. I did learn a lot about how different pump technologies work though. ******************************************** I think it is worth noting for newer readers, a couple important thread quotes from Bruce on Air Supply and Setting Manifold PSI Values. 1) Air Supply (Quality - PSI and Mositure/Dirt) Bruce Thigpen
More than air pressure, the air supply will change the sound of the tonearm. if it is bad, allowing pressure pulsations to enter the manifold. Increasing pressure slightly and a big enough surge tank are the best things that could be added to the tonearm in terms of performance. The key words to me from Bruce is increase pressure slightly, and it implies one knows what PSI your ET2 manifold was built for. If someone buys an ET2 on the used market we have discussed here how to find out the PSI/Bar it was designed for. As a guideline if a regular manifold - 3 psi. If a High Pressure manifold 8-10 psi unless it was a Custom Build. Once consistent PSI is achieved (think pulsations), the big other factor is moisture and dirt. What helped me understand how important this moisture and dirt were, was to think about air brush painting and what happens if dirt/moisture get in the air line for the person doing the spraying. Now I don't air brush myself but there are many air brush painting forums to get an understanding. For me personally. My Timeter pump is designed for keeping people/patients comfortable. It therefore has controls that allow me to vary the moisture being sent out as it has an integral drying system. The pump is affected by humidity and going from very dry winter air, to humid spring/summer air forces me to make pump adjustments to the level of drying. I have found in my room on a few occasions during the season change from winter to spring (going dry to humid) I could have been listening to digital for a while, then switched to vinyl, the system itself is warmed up; at times the vinyl sounded wrong. Almost how reproduced music in a room can sound with cold solid state gear if you know what I mean. When the music sounds like this, it makes me think of wires and the gear. Not the music at all. Going to the pump I notice the dryness level needle has dropped some so I need to crank up the dryness factor a bit on the pump. So the PSI was just fine but there was some moisture in the air line - it affected the sound. And this is moisture "vapor" that is hard to be trapped by filters. Again the air brush forums help to get an understanding of this. Our audio expectation is nice music we enjoy. Their expectation is the finish on their painted product. Its all visual. For those running with tanks of compressed air - don't forget to drain the water in the tank before using (bringing the tank to its PSI level). My Timeter Aridyne pump is tankless. The fact of the matter is if you live in a hot, humid place (I wish I was there now) you will have more challenges with air supply than the guy in a drier, colder environment. So many environmental factors can affect the sound that are never discussed on Audiophile forums. 2) Setting the Manifold PSI on ET 2.0 and 2.5 for specific customer requirements. In the past customers have had Bruce design the manifold PSI for their pump's specific requirements. This is discussed on the Eminent Technology website when one is looking to buy the tonearm, as the pump system is not supplied with tonearm when you purchase it. Bruce Thigpen
The pressure drop across the set screws define the restoring force and part of the stiffness of the air bearing.
The tolerance between the Manifold Inner Diameter and the Spindle Outer Diameter determines the lifting pressure as a function of flow rate through the set screw. Without a restoring force or pressure drop across the set screw, the bearing will lock up, so you always need a higher air pressure in the manifold housing as compared to the pressure at the surface of the spindle.
The high pressure manifolds have a slightly tighter tolerance between the spindle and manifold, they also use a set screw with more plating to restrict the air flow around the threads to create the increased pressure drop (the difference between the pressure in the manifold housing and the pressure at the surface of the spindle).
It does not hurt to slide the spindle in the manifold bore without air, the resistance you feel may be the surface finish roughness on the hard coat anodizing as well as tolerance.
I hope this helps, thank you very much.
-brucet ************************************************ Fnding the ET2 Yellow Sticky Thread Posts. Here's the ET2 thread Yellow Sticky for the setting of manifold PSI values https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/eminent-technology-et-2-tonearm-owners/post?highlight=et2%2By... The new Audiogon system allows one to find the Yellow Sticky Posts on this ET2 thread easily now. Just enter Yellow Sticky in the forums search field. |
But then the ET locked up and it began spitting out water. 8^0 I have known of some people who pull off the air hose at the manifold casing - pour some isopropyl down the tube - reconnect and start up the air. This must be the equivalent of drinking home made Slivovitch. (google it). Anyone reading pls take the manifold apart and clean per the manual if needed. I was lucky with my ET tonearm water incident. I casually looked over and saw the water trap bowl was what looked like 3/4 full ! Normally there is nothing there as the timeter drains all moisture. The nozzle on the drain tube on the timeter pump had plugged up and was not exhausting water any more so water starting going down the airline. Soaking the exhaust nozzle in CLR fixed it. Actually, the same sort of thing happened to my wife’s car. She found the passenger side footwell soaked one day. Turns out pine needles/leaves entered and blocked the AC drain tube on her car - entered from passenger side front windshield area. Dealer wanted to charge me an hours labor to fix it so I took off the footwell carpeting/panel and saw the the drain hose coming through and exiting below the floor. Pulled it out, used wire and blew out debris with air.
high humidity pulling down the bias voltage on the stats, a known issue.
Richard I learned about this about 5 years ago, The Quad 57’s were kept in a Toronto space with no air conditioning / humidity control in summer. The first time I experienced it I thought they were Kaput. I spoke with Ken at Electrostatic Solutions who explained the phenomena to me. They left that space shortly after that and came home. The other interesting thing I learned from Ken going by memory, is that the the Quad 63’s and 57’s are opposite builds. The 57’s are actually a hardy build in comparison to the 63’s in regards to humidity; even though high humidity can make them sound like transistor radios it doesn’t hurt them. The Quad 63’s in a couple years of high humidity will self destruct/fall apart. |
Richard et al, I came across a good video showing the Timeter pump in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzNO_iYeopcWith this one the two air outputs have been set up differently. Not for an air bearing tonearm :^) I found this video while looking for a second pump. The video is really good at showing how loud it is, and its operation. A close up shot of the performance gauge can be seen. It’s the indicator of the air quality going out - Amazon humid - to Arizona dry - depending on the patient’s requirements. In this case Arizona please for the ET 2.5 baby. Baby is a good word I think, since my 19 PSI ET 2.5 from Bruce is younger, tighter, and very picky with what it’s inhaling. More so than my older ET 2.0 with High Pressure Manifold in the other room. If you watch the fellow start it - it builds PSI and when used with my main ET 2.5; pump adjustments can be made so the performance gauge needle stays in the green - indicating dry air output. It uses 4 heavy duty caster wheels which allow for it to be easily moved around when not in use, and placed in the room of your choice when listening to records. It’s not a good idea to leave it running in your wife’s TV room. I want a second one; everything seems to come in two’s for me. But the shipping is too damn much to justify for those I have found. As you know my older Timeter pump has had some past surgery. So would be nice to have a backup. I laughed when the guy in the video showed a close up of the hours count on that one. Cheers . |
The price will be $225, incl. shipping. How is Bruce able to makes these Joints, aka the "Gooseneck" for this price? Machine shop rates are $150 an hour. We ran into much higher estimate costs to do a run of Goosenecks as discussed on this thread a while back. So the aluminum Mounting Base and Joint/Gooseneck are about the same price. Is the Gooseneck not more of challenge (labor & material wise) to make ? |
Hi Tequila
been up north trying to find HD Satellite 82 through a mess of woods.
talk about frustrating. nothing in Audio so far matches this type of frustration when you don’t have a clear line of sight., and mosquitoes biting at you.
re: VP0140 pump
I still have a couple of those stored away.
For a simple pump the order would be .
Pump =====> surge tank =======> regulator / filter ======== ET 2.0, ET 2.5
This ensures the PSI and Filtering is maintained closest to the tonearm.
If you have gone through this thread you know we are all running different pump systems. For this reason and others when buying a new ET 2.5; it comes with no pump but Bruce will help you acquire one.
Pumps that have adjustable PSI will also have their own internal regulator. So it is possible to have a couple regulators on the line - start and end. A long air line of say 50- 100 feet coiled up also acts like a surge tank and smooths out the air pulses.
Tequila, your moniker brings up Mexico. Anyone buying a used ET2 from Mexico should give the capillaries a thorough cleaning due to air quality. Sonics are greatly affected by quality of the air. if they (capillaries) are partially blocked you will need to run a higher PSI to make it work. This is a band aid and the sonics will suffer. Any used ET2 purchase should be cleaned out.
The quality of the air going into the arm is most important and affects the sonics greatly in two ways.
1) Clean dry air keeps moisture carrying particulates from clogging up the pores of the capillaries.
2) Stable pulse free air ensures great sonics - you will know when you hear this. Music flows like from a water pipe - a relaxed presentation.
fwiw
I used to have a VPI mkIV with my first ET 2.0 many years ago. The springs can be a PITA as they have a tendency to go out of level easy. Replacing the springs with pucks helped, but then you need to introduce different turntable footers.
My 2 cents. hopefully others can offer their opinion. Welcome to the thread and AudioGon.
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regarding the 30 min operation warning on the Medo.
The pump has heat sinks much like a Solid State Class A/B amp. It does get hot quickly. A small computer fan placed next to it alleviates this limitation. It can be run for hours and never gets hot.
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And also, I found that actually I bought another used ET2 (without TT) years ago and it was sitting with my LPs, which I forgot, and now I have one running and a spare ET2 too :)
what's better than an ET2 ? Two - ET2's :^) One for stereo and one for mono. Happy Listening ..... |
Hi Dave Sounds like you are really enjoying your setup and music. You know it got me thinking. Some people seeing this thread in the Audiogon Analog list for the first time may be wondering ...... how the hell does an Audiogon thread about a tonearm of all things, reach 1,238,000 views on 1500 posts ? I think this is because. 1) The thread contains good information on the ET2 tonearm from actual owners supported with information that has been got from Bruce Thigpen directly. It dispenses with the many audiophile myths on the tonearm, some from professionals in the business - shame on them :^) .... and with air bearing tonearms in general. 2) There is also good information for audiophiles/music lovers in general. 3) There are good stories. :^) But I think you said it best and it mirrors my experiences. I have not yet heard the full sonic capability of this arm despite many years of audio partnership. As the weather starts turning colder vinyl will be helping me to keep warm. Turntables have come and gone as have cartridges. My ET 2.5 has remained and will continue to do so. My only issue right now is I want a second newer Timeter Arydyne air pump but ...their prices have skyrocketed - is it any coincidence with this thread ? and the dollar exchange as they are all coming from the US is just terrible for Canadians. Can’t justify it. I am reminded of my first email to Mr. Verdier who made my turntable and his email response back to me some years ago. Dear Sir,
Thank you for your message.
A gap of 1cm is absolutely normal.
Can you tell me more about your curious tone arm?
Please accept my best regards.
J.C.VERDIER Many North American audio products are not well known in Europe. :^) Cheers Chris |
Hi Dave
your ET2 set up looks textbook good :^) , with the obvious wiring, air tube connect mods over stock to improve on the original design, which tried to satisfy the tonearm being mounted on practically any turntable - other than a very lightly sprung one. All it needs is one drilled hole for the spiked mounting plate.
As we know and discussed here there are many TNT setups with ET2 arms. The TNT was originally designed for the ET2. There was a business collaboration between Harry and Bruce. Harry then I assume, (he can tell us otherwise if he likes) made up his own tonearm and they said goodbye to each other.
The many TNT and HW 19 VPI/ET2 setups are a reminder of this past relationship and can not be ignored. Even with Harry's marketing sense.
Kind of like that past girlfriend you still hold pictures of, and were afraid to introduce to your mother ? ....
Your attention to detail is great (I imagine for the whole room) and I really like the thread on the TNT. That thread setup on my previous TNT moved the TNT into the same league for pace and tempo with my other tables at the time. But it trumped them in musicality. Trumped them.....hah hah to my American friends. :^)
In fact my modded TNT at the time is what convinced me to eventually acquire the string drive designed turntable.
Nice pics (its unfortunate we can't link pics direct from our virtual system into threads anymore. An excellent shot of how to properly set the weights on the I beam - where many (including the professional reviewers) go wrong IMO because they do not take time to figure out how the arm works. I am referring of course to reading the ET2 manual, or ask Bruce, or ask us here. :^)
in a nutshell **** FWFO**** fewest weights furthest out. I just made up that acronym. This FWFO gives you the highest vertical inertia (aka the BEST BASS) and is discussed in the ET2 manual. This is also "one" of the reasons the super light 420str has such outstanding bass on an ET2. Like the bass players in the group sound after drinking cappuccino.
There is of course the famous Audiogon "German" group who set their ET2's up with the most weight possible in, closest to the air bearing spindle. Long time ET2 owners know what this does to the setup. We can discuss if anyone likes. One from this German group actually makes his own tonearm now.
Cheers
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Eric et al - I don't know how Bruce makes such good quality parts for what he sells them for. Just glad he is there and his tonearm still a leader in design and execution.
We do know he has his plane. I assume he has made some interesting contacts in the aviation field; maybe this is how he is able to do it.
I tell my kids that education is critical to your success; but in the end its the contacts that will get you there. Wherever you are headed.
On a side note I just remembered something. I spent some time this summer with a few friends helping out a buddy, replace the Gimbal bearing in his boat motor assembly. You know I couldn't help but think about how it worked and making comparisons to gimballed bearing tonearms. I did not mention this to them. :^)
Now there is a great combination - pressed steel, grease, then add a whole bunch of water to it all. Keeps the service repair business humming along.
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The subwoofer phenomena is an interesting one, but logical IMO, as far as progression goes in this Audio business. There are not too many people that have dedicated rooms, that can place full range speakers on the room loading points. So manufacturers followed with subwoofer audiophile lines to meet this demand. It’s a good business model imo.
As we know with subwoofers you can place them in the general area of where you want them, then set when they are active, and amount of db level with the phase control you need. Still the person with the dedicated room will be able to go further down the rabbit hole if these bass modules can be placed on the room loading points to begin with.
The real issues I find with bass does not get much discussion on forums and it deals with the way the music has been engineered to begin with. Different genres of music and even different recordings within the same genre use different compression levels, engineering techniques. Different albums need different bass settings.
Now most people I know with subwoofers have a dial on the actual box/es that they use to set phase and db level, etc... In order to tailor the sound for different music the person needs to get up go to the sub/s and change them. This doesn’t work for me.
In my room B, I am using two Dynaudio BM12s subs that have a credit card sized remote that can be preset for A - B - C - D . Each letter represents different settings. When the music has been engineered with too much bass or too little, the levels are easily adjusted from the listening chair. Unless you can train your dog to change the levels while you listen; this works very well, for me anyway.
Raul - have you ever heard a system that had four bass modules in the room? I am not referring to four on the ground. But Two on the ground. Two up near the ceiling. Four in total facing the listener for two channel music.
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Raul - from personal experience in my room when you have multiple bass drivers, one positioned high near the ceiling and one low - pointed at the listener. The effect of the output from the woofers is that the bass waves cancel each other out. The sound is much smoother, bass notes stop and start quicker. There are no standing waves. It costs a lot to do this type of speaker design, they are tall and substantial for the top woofer to reach high and for the cabinetry to be able to hold the weight. They are very imposing in the room. If a manufacturer makes this type of speaker they are usually their flagship line. Not many made like this anymore . Remember subs main/primary premise is not to have deeper bass or " boom boom " but better quality overall system performance with lower distortions!.
Well the job of the subwoofer is to reproduce low frequencies. In most cases, the bottom two octaves, from 20Hz to ....the higher frequency varies for each persons room. Now I believe in all designs (someone correct me if I am wrong in this assumption) the least distortion for any design, will be when the sub is working the least - IMO. When it is working is triggered by when it has been set to kick on (the frequency), and how loud it has been set to play at when it kicks on. This second part is IMO key (how loud it has been set for), especially if someone is using One subwoofer. let me explain. If anyone owns one subwoofer and you want to learn how clean it can play - lowest distortion try this experiment with one subwoofer. Place it a few feet to the left or the right of your listening position. If it used to be on the other side of the room, change the dial on the phase control 180 degrees to start. Start playing your music; if the sub used to be close to your main speakers on the other side of the room, you will need to turn the db level of the sub down at least 60 - 70%. Set it up for your music. You will not be able to tell that it is next to you. In fact you can play a game with your audio friends. Camouflage the sub with a nice cover. Let your friends sit in your chair, start playing music and ask your friends to tell you where the sub is located. They will point to a far corner somewhere. They will be surprised when you tell them it is 3 feet beside them. try it ... ********** True Story Two weeks ago my 22 year old son comes over with his truck. As it pulls into the driveway, I was able to can hear the vehicle thumping with bass from before he entered the driveway. Fed up I told him we are going to try something. For the record this vehicle comes with decent stock stereo (for car stereo ) I think sourced from Alpine and has a nice big cabin (Room). He has added a JL Audio amp/controls under the passenger seat, and two JL Audio Drivers under the back seat in a long custom box. The first thing I noticed was that his stock sub was still on. Why? It was redundant and competing with the JL Audios. We went to the dash and turned off the vehicles stock sub. I then reached down under the passenger seat where the controls were - I turned the frequency the sub kicked in, a little lower and turned the db level from 6 ! ....to 3. I asked him to play some music. He could not believe it. I can now hear the bass he commented. I felt good but it was short lived. Couple days ago he asked if I could show him how to turn it back the way it was, just so he could learn how to do it. I think its one of these things when guys get together that your vehicle needs to be thumping. :^( |
Hi Dave that link shows quite the elaborate effort. It appears from the pic to be a string driven first platter, which is then connected to the main platter as a rim drive ? You can tell the tension of the string is pretty taut as mechanical bearings are being used. The VPI TT feet shown are now just dummies? as the TT is being supported by the symposium footers. From personal experience the stock TNT, even though it was designed for the original ET2; is the bottleneck with a properly set up ET2. In fact this is the case with all turntables I have owned. I say this because each time my TNT and other TT setups improved, they just took the ET 2.0 and 2.5 to new levels. I still do think these pics looks cool.... http://imcedb.com/images/1/1c/Indecent_turntable.pnghttp://imcedb.com/images/1/12/Indecent_stereo.pngGive some thread to Robert Redford, a better speed controller and that turntable setup will change the way he listens to his music. Notice the FWFO** ET2 weights setup in the second picture link above. **Fewest Weights Furthest Out = Highest Vertical Inertia What does concern me with the second pic is that there doesn't appear to be any climate control. Look to the left of Robert Redford. Appears to be wide open to the elements. I think this is what we can call operating that air bearing under extreme conditions. The sound will change with a tropical storm. :^) Only in the movies as they say. Cheers Chris |
Hi Dave my kids have been asking me for a lot of music lately, from all over the place. I don't mean different genres. I mean the cd's were all over the place, in my rooms. I have come to the realization that I am a terrible filer of music, but also that I am a pretty good listener :^) I somehow know where i put these things down and they can be found. But if I am looking for music that was not played in a while, or I filed it away to get it off the table or floor. Good Luck. So I got fed up looking for these things, and ripped that music too, to the external hard drive. These days all my digital is on files and is played external hard drive >>> dedicated laptop >>>>> DAC8 ************************* re the stockfisch link. - thanx for the link. Just a comment on their summary. With critical listening tests, this combination has proven to us to be the optimal chain when it comes to obtaining a sound as close as possible to the master.
I would add "in this room" to the end of that statement. Just my opinion. There are just too many variables in each of our rooms to ignore it (the Room). I posted a reply to the Empire cart on your virtual system. Cheers Chris |
Hi Nikola. yeah, I agree with you. decent
of an acceptable standard; satisfactory. I still do own some "decent" tonearms. But because of the ET2.0 and ET 2.5 they don't get used much. I also still have these three Turntables, even though I use only one really, and only have two ET tonearms. You need a tonearm on every TT. 8^0 This analog stuff just seems to keep going up in value every year, so I am not really being pushed to get rid of anything extra. .... unlike digital gear. |
Dave- I knew I had seen that VPI Symposium set up before. see this link. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/2426A search on symposium brought it up. Jloveys is an AudioGon member. Pic 10 of 15 is a good shot showing the footers holding up all the weight. I like his taste in speakers. :^) Cheers Chris |
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Hi Dave - going from memory from many years ago I think I can see 57.90's on the SDS display window for the thread setup I had on the TNT ?
Why am I able to remember this but can't remember where I left the keys ?
Mike from VPI at the time recommended the Spider fishing line which he used. Go into the fishing store and find 15 types of Spider line. Anyway did not have any success with fishing line or the Kevlar that I ordered in.
Eric et al - the thread/floss is a slippery slope - prepare yourself for it
Once there - there is no return - like this tonearm. for me anyway.
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Nice setup Eric
Wish you guys were closer so we could hang out. With cold weather here soon for me, I will be spending a lot more time In My Room :^)
Dave - how much did you have to bump up the frequency on your speed controller for the floss ?
Cheers
Chris |
* ^ 0
Dave, I thought it was because of a bad bottle of wine the night before.
the first time I heard thread on the TNT it was like - WOW
it showed me what was possible but.......
As I experimented more I learned the table had two big constraints.
The pulley and platter/bearing system was never designed for thread.
Even though the music was much improved I knew I was fighting the design.
To give you an idea of what I mean by this - purchase affordable Gutermann Silk Thread CA 02776
Set up the TNT or any VPI deck with it and see how long it lasts. A couple weeks maybe from what I recall based on heavy rotation of lps.
Now on the thread designed table it will last .......until you maybe break it by mistake. Thats how much thread tension difference there is between the VPI and Verdier.
I am a bit anal when it comes to design. Better design always trumps and leads to better results in the end depending on what you are after. So I ended up with a string drive designed turntable.
Now Verdier did add the belt option to his table in later years for business sales reasons; but he did also include a separate pulley system for belt.
And here is the thing - some owners of these tables do not know you need to use different pulleys depending on how it is used.
Cheers Chris |
Strangely, I have had no issues with longevity of the common sewing thread I first used nor with the floss. Dave that silk thread I referenced in the previous post is pretty fragile. Easily torn apart by hand. Just thinking out loud here ... If one was in "Audiophile Mode"........meaning experimentation mode :^) One could try that silk thread - a single strand only - with a later TNT motor/pulley/platter/bearing design. If it lasts a long time, then based on my experiences in my room, I would say the later TNT version designs would indeed be better than the earlier versions. Cheers Chris |
Hi Nikola But why is nobody able
to hear the ''perfect sound'' without any distortion at those ''zero
points'' at which there is no ''tracking error'' and which provide the
strongest argument for this ET- 2 of yours?
not sure what you mean by perfect sound, but based on my experiences with my pivot arms..... Tracking error is one problem. The bigger problem is Antiskating and the reason we need it. Because the pivot arm even though it is tangent at those two points - still wants to shoot to the spindle, while the antiskating is pushing it back. There is a tug of war going on here, and its intensity varies based on the groove modulations. I sense "groove anxiety" by what I hear. 8^0 It's not until you hear your familiar music on a well set up Linear tracker that you realize this groove anxiety is even going on with the pivot arm. It is replaced by music that flows like water. More definition, soundstage (all those audiophile terms) When you remove this distortion, and hear it on a familiar album, one becomes aware of it. Once aware of it ....you tend to focus on it. I am unfortunately anal that way. We have discussed this already before, and I used the analogy of buying a car whose front right tire is always low. That's what my pivot arms remind me of. Just some thoughts, other owners of "any" Linear trackers are welcome to add their thoughts good or bad. so Does a dealer audio store, salon, retail outlet even exist today, anywhere in the world that has two setups that can demonstrate the above ? I don't frequent them anymore so don't know. Cheers Chris |
Hi Dave
Fixing the Level situation with a turntable design like the TNT is doable.
If the ET2 air bearing design (very smooth) raises the bar, and forces an owner to take notice and become more anal about leveling their TT (any TT). Then I say so be it, because in the end it means better health for the records and the cartridge.
Unfortunately I am not aware of any " pill " for groove anxiety.
Cheers Chris
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Hi Nikola.
the other thing I want to mention is that pivot arms produce more resonance at the bearing. Bruce has actually measured this and documented it in the manual.
Now I base this on my personal experiences as a music lover / sometimes audiophile :^)
The most resonance can be heard in the bass.You need to get the bass right in any room. If someone wants to call this resonance - distortion - feel free. Air Bearing linear trackers produce less distortion - less resonance.
This means the overall room setup like speaker placement used, may need to change to satisfy some, because you are dealing with less distortion. Those that make comparisons and never move their speakers to accommodate the two pivot and air bearing designs, are not comparing properly. This can prove very difficult in some rooms if the speakers weigh 200 lbs. Especially with older audiophiles who have moved their final speaker to its resting place, and now focus only on the small components/cabling, etc....
Everything in audio is fixable with an understanding of ones’s overall room setup. Those on the forums especially Professionals that say the bass lacks on an air bearing - they are not focused on the overall room setup.
fwiw
I shared private emails with your friend Daniel. Dertonarm. He was very helpful when I was researching the Verdier. When I changed the topic to the ET2 - as you know he owned many tonearms, I discovered his preference was to go against the ET2 manual instructions and place as much weight as possible, close to the air bearing spindle. With the ET2 stock design - this produces the most resonance, and the most ill defined bass in my rooms. If you see him remind him of our conversation.
Cheers Chris
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@Dover re: your La Platine comments.
From the moment you stuck a ball bearing between the magnets of La Platine, our audiophile experiences became non-comparable. We went down two different paths.
I regard JC Verdier (RIP), like Bruce Thigpen, a genius. After all still to today their products are offered for sale. They have passed the test of time. I spent considerable time by phone and emails speaking to both makers about optimum setup. No one knows more about these products than their makers.
La Platine experience is like going on a date with a mature French lady. If you want to hit a home run (American baseball), imo, you need to follow her lead and let her show you the way. It appears from your comments you only got to first base with her. Pity.
As with all things Audio - proper setup is everything.
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Dover - taken from a quick search "Dover Platine" on Audiogon. Dover - 10-14-2012 8:18pm
The verdier platine comes with an option to use a ball and thrust plate. Essentially this means the platter is grounded, and provides an energy path to ground for unwanted energy or resonance. In this mode the magnetic repulsion is still employed, but it means the tt has a high mass platter, but the grounded bearing only sees a fraction of that weight. This is a very elegant solution and is used in the Continuum. I prefer this mode, the grounding tightens and focus’ the sound, increases resolution and articulation if applied properly.
Now to me, I question why someone would want to introduce a path for noise, resonances. The design of La Platine’s Granito plinth absorbs unwanted resonances. It seems clear to me that in general terms, for those audiophiles that pursue higher end turntables, They do seem to fall into two camps. They either want their turntable to 1) have a direct path for resonances (the quickest possible) to mother earth or 2) they want to isolate the TT as much as possible from her. La Platine has been designed by its maker for this camp. . *********************************** Regardless. good that she went to someone that can appreciate her. IMO - She leaves too much open to the imagination and tweaking. To the pure audiophile who is never happy and constantly seeking change - she is a bad match I think. She is better imo with the person that is a music lover. fwiw My Vintage Granito La Platine and ET 2.5, are the only combination I have owned, that has ever even given me thoughts of hot rodding the Studer with 15 IPS tapes. If that isn’t reference quality, then we have different illusions Dover of what reference quality means. Cheers |
Kevin,
That's an ET 1.0 tonearm on the SOTA.
Bruce' first version not counting his early work collaboration with Mapleknoll. IMO- that's more for the collector.
But we know how collectors are .. very few ET1's around. So price wise? .....whatever a collector is willing to pay.
I would be jumping on the ET 2.5 w/Mag Wand. That person selling knows not what he is selling - it probably came from an estate. Just sell the turntable ........if only the tonearm is of interest.
I didn't mention it to you privately as you had just bought speakers. 8^0
Cheers Chris
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Kevin unlike most of the readers and posters on this thread, including myself; you are in a very unique, and envious position I must say, (probably to the owners of ET 2’s and ET speaker products), to be able to contact Bruce, take the short drive, and see Version 2 of the ET tonearm in action. When you witness and feel, first hand the action of the bearing, you will understand how extraordinary it is, compared to other air bearings.
Regarding those two linked ET tonearms/tables for sale - I myself don’t buy anything unless I perceive it as a deal. Now something can become a deal for me, if I know I can personally sell (easily) part of the package that doesn’t interest me.
Caveat
For someone like yourself, coming from long time experience with only pivot tonearms, it is IMO, important that the person be the personality type to see "OUTSIDE" the Box, and to be able to see, work and play ......"straight".
A straight line is demanded for proper operation, whether we are talking about how the tonearm tracks, or how level it needs to be. 8^0
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Slaw - That pump doesn’t have enough output for a high pressure manifold, does it? The surge tank, at this point would not be safe run at higher psi, as they weaken over time.
Steve The surge tank and original 3 psi pump in the picture provides clues into the history of ownership. I am making an assumption that another pump was used with that setup. Not available now, so the original pump is included. The original pump showing may also indicate that the tonearm started life as a 2.0 and might have been beefed up to a 2.5 by Bruce later....when he used to do these modifications. As we know, Bruce designed the ET tonearm in a way that the tonearm PSI can be built to customer specs. 3 PSI to higher up to 19 psi. I would recommend the person buying "that" tonearm to just pickup an aftermarket pump on the wholesale market and bypass the original pump seen in the photo. The pump as we have discussed here is an audiophile journey on its own, for the person that wants to explore that rabbit hole. We have discussed here as well, how to determine what the PSI has been set for at the factory, for anyone buying a used ET 2 version tonearm with PSI unknown. We can rehash if anybody wants. I do enjoy talking tech. Takes my mind of these markets - lol ******************************************* Pegasus
- Surge tank: My Airtech tanks end caps broke during a long time of being stored away. My replacement was a standard HDPE gasoline tank, 10l (ca. 2 gallons) with two 5mm holes drilled in the screw cap, with silicone tubing entering each hole, one with a short piece entering the tank, one with a long piece touching the "floor". The tank is filled with polyacryl wool for damping. The seam of screw cap / tubing then is "glued" with hot glue. This stays air tight since 10-15 years, and i’s cost were almost nothing.
- My original ET pump with ET 2 arm gave ca. 0.25 to 0.3 Bar. With the improved Pegasus - I am sure your surge tank is built to Swiss Specs 8^0 and very good ....however I am of the personal opinion that technical talk of surge tanks, scares new potential owners away. I think the air bearing tonearm talk itself may intimidate people enough, without getting into details on the tonearm peripherals. JMO With that, I believe a better solution is to use a pump whose surge tank, and water removal functions are part of the pump's integral design - plug and play, no maintenance needed. How does that sound ? ****************************************** @the nature boy re: your question about the ET1. I believe your question was for the most part answered in the previous posts ? Visually looking at both versions one can see many differences. The ET1 is probably as rare to be seen for sale, as the 2.5 for different reasons. Now if one is of the belief that the vinyl hobby is a vibration resonance adventure; well Bruce has done "extensive" analysis on materials, resonances; just look at his sub woofer product Low Frequency testing, that he took to Africa to test Elephant responses. Anyway Look at the materials used in the ET1 compared to the ET 2.0 and 2.5. The 2.0 - 2.5 have VTA on the Fly, exchangeable armwands, and an I beam design that allows for matching up to different carts. Now with that, I am sure there are ET1 owners out there loving them, and they work great with their systems. It’s all about tweaking and tuning - isn’t it ? Myself - I think a better question is what is the difference between the ET 2.0 and 2.5 ? It is not obvious to the general onlooker ? Cheers |
Hi Pegasus To have the arm helping leveling, the arm wiring is critical and needs to be thin and very elastic, ideally left/right separated with optimal wire looms. You mentioned this type of wiring setup previously. I can envision it but would like to see a picture of it. Feel free to send a picture to me if you like at bcpguy (at) bell (dot) net and I can make the picture available to the others. Another option is to have a straight shot all 4 wires exiting the armtube, which then go to the phono stage direct. On their way there, leaving the armtube are 4 separate strands which are placed in a happy face loop***. This eliminates binding. Binding is the ET2’s kryptonite. The 4 wires attach to the nearby platform your phono stage rests on (around the mid travel point for the spindle). From there the wires are joined to the phono stage. A picture of this can be seen on my virtual system page - Just click on the Runner. *** My daughters Bengal kitty loves my rooms, and I love her company, but her curiousness is fraught with danger. In room two it is the naked Quad Electrostats. In my main room, one evening as I placed a record on and sat in my chair, I could see shadows behind the turntable. Indeed a tail was waving. I looked over the table and there she was behind - eyeing both the spinning Platine thread and happy face 4 naked wire loop wiring - deciding I think which to pounce on first. My heart beat reached running levels in about 2 seconds. Specifically to lateral forces - the ET2 versus conventional tonearms. As has been discussed here before. "the lateral forces are .1 gm. compared to .2 gm on a conventional arm. These figures apply if you do not play records that are not severely out of round. If you like to play severely eccentric records, ones with run out greater than 1/8 ", then we suggest you use a low mass pivot arm" Taken from Bruce’ measurements and published in the ET 2 manual - Page 47 - Antiskating and Frequency Modulation Distortion Section. Pegasus
I doubt that in the 80’s all too many ET2s were set up correctly, thus leading to the mythos that straight tracker have a "problem in the bass". I agree and I am pretty sure all first time ET2 owners of the 80’s, were previous pivot arm owners, who were fascinated with the ET2 arm design and function, but quickly became frustrated with incorrect setup from not reading the manual. The biggest technical error imo - leaving all the weights on the I beam, and simply moving them inward closer to the air bearing for more VTF - like is habit with most pivot arms. This does not give you the highest vertical inertia needed for the best bass. Cheers |
Hi Pegasus - I think I missed my calling. I am amazed by the physics that is happening with my turntable setup. Here I went, and became a consultant involved in a field, Business/IT, that was so new and exciting some 35-40 years ago. Who knew back then that it would be ever and always changing; so much so, that if you did not stay current, even for a few years, you become obsolete very fast.
You can't change Physics. Many have tried. Some have even tried with the ET2.
:^0
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Steve
yes I understand.I have been in contact privately with Kevin for a while now about the ET2. I "may" be part of the reason he has not yet committed to this madness. We have been discussing amongst other things how to remodel his house, to accommodate the pump I am recommending him buying 8^0.
I got the message across that I give everyone - that one needs to be "all in" to make it truly work with an ET 2. It's a unique tonearm unlike any other I have ever owned, that lets you "dial in" after initial setup, to the rest of your chain. Like a team taking a race car to a different track. After the initial qualifying run, the tuning starts for the final race. They are on a deadline, we are not. The results can be very rewarding for the Audiophile..
If you recall many years ago, I acquired a Studer Tape Deck, and spent quite a bit on select tapes, including master tape dubs. They were incredible when I first heard them in my room. Became the reference point to shoot for - for reproduced music play. And if you recall it is what was used for reference against "Goldilocks and Three Turntables". An AudioGon search will allow someone to find out the detail with that adventure.
Today, after years of tweaking, refining that ended maybe a couple of years ago, my vinyl rig matches, and on some of those tapes, surpasses their reproduction. I bought the Studer as a reference point. It will now need to be hotrodded, like my vinyl rig, to get back on top. Thats an expensive route I won't be doing anytime soon. So in the meantime it sits pretty much unused. I have a whole record library to get through, and Tidal - Hifi has cut into some of my listening.
Cheers Chris
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I happen to come across this Bruce Thigpen '07 interview in a Machine Design publication. It has some nice insight into Bruce and his products. My lifelong fascination with audio and sound reproduction resulted in the start-up of Eminent Technology in 1982. Unfortunately, 1982 was also the year the compact-disc player came along. And so it appeared that our first product, a high-end, air-bearing phonograph tonearm, wasn't going to keep the lights on indefinitely. Still, the demand for high-tech, high-end record players never disappeared entirely.
8^0 In the article Bruce gives good info on how dipole speakers work, and the reason for their bass limitations. There is also good info on how the rotary woofer works. Enjoy. here is the link http://machinedesign.com/archive/good-vibrations-0 |
Bdp24
Why his LFT-8b loudspeaker isn’t more widely known and owned is a mystery to me. Hi Eric Well imo..they sure don’t have any WAF. He should make a white wood version maybe, sort of like the jacket the assistant in that article is wearing. :^) I think without the grills they are the coolest looking speakers I have ever owned. Others would say ....huh ? those are speakers ? Sound comes from them ? Regretted selling mine. As far as I know from a few years back the LFT8 speakers have always been in demand with a backlog when ordering? |
^^^
For Beers and Cheers amongst mixed company, Hi Fi Steaming seems to fit the bill.
Now if amongst the company there is an "audio gear" guy (always a guy so far), 8^0 ......they always prefer to see and hear two "tables" spinning at the same time, over one. I think all those accompanying lights flashing, at the same time as the two wheels spinning, does work towards setting an Expectation Bias?
Do you know what I mean?
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hello vpi
30 years of owning your ET 2 - wow. I am curious to know if during this time you have had to clean out your manifold ?
Some time ago an audio friend sent me a picture of his manifold before and after cleaning. This can be seen. It is picture # 32 on my AudioGon Virtual System Page. Click on my Runner to get there.
Cheers Chris
*****
Unfortunately the AudioGon System no longer allows me to link pictures from our virtual systems into a thread directly.
@Tammy (Audiogon Support) .......if you are reading this.... this is another example of why this feature should be returned. It would IMO significantly increase virtual system traffic as well. This can only be good for business.
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I don't really want to take a hammer to my beloved ET II! Harry, its takes more than a hammer to destroy the ET 2. 8^0 @Frogman "unseasonably warm" yes........ until today ! we went from 17 c (60 f) to -5 c (23 f) overnight. where else do get swings like that in temps ? I can't believe I was getting visions of doing gelcoat repair on one of the boats :^( Good to hear from you Frogman :^) Ah yes, the ole ......pour some rubbing alcohol down the air tube like a scientist........turn the pump on ........and listen to the fluid come out of the manifold pores onto the spindle. Extra cool when you manually move the spindle in and out as you do this. Quite a satisfying slurping sucking sound ....no ? And all those mineral deposits in the manifold get dislodged, moved, and deposited where exactly ? |
here is a direct link to that manifold pic and it shows the correct cleaning procedure that Frogman mentioned earlier, as a well as another pic grabbed from the internet showing the manifold parts. https://goo.gl/photos/J7XD4gevCJrRN5CD8Note the set screws in the manifold. The screws are set differently for different PSI settings. One can see if you send isopropanol down the airline, this manifold surface and the set screws is what the fluid comes into contact with. What can’t be seen is the inside of the black manifold housing.The inside of it should be scrubbed out too. Harry - my no.1 passion is running. My wife asks me where I am running to and I can’t answer. I guess this make me a running fool. Anyway...because of the running I think; I am very biased about air quality...and I believe that it is this mindset, that set me on my I will call it "abnormal" pump journeys, with the ET 2.0- 2.5. The air compressor I am using the Timeter, builds pressure heats up the air, condenses it, drains the moisture down a tube (like your car’s ac system ) into a tray, then sends it down the main air line to my ET 2.5. I have never seen a drop in the regulator bowl next to the turntable. Well... one time when the tube in the Timeter pump got plugged with mineral deposits. Its design means moisture and and particulate traps are not required. **************** I’m running a Lyra Delos on the ET with original arm wand.
Any opinions on whether I’d hear an improvement with the magnesium or carbon fiber wand? http://www.needledoctor.com/Lyra-Delos-Phono-CartridgeThe Lyra Delos is Compliance : Approx. 12 x 10 cm/dyne at 100Hz I would run that cart with a CF or Mag armwand and the double leaf spring. As you know the ET2 first came out with its original aluminum arm wand, when high compliance MM’s were really popular. I am using in my second room the original aluminum wand with the high compliance Acutex 420str and single leaf spring. The Acutex is 36 x 10-6 cm./dyne at 100 Hz. |
Yeah, the pump runs if I remember at 68 db if you hold an spl meter 5 feet from it. It needs its own room. Like my music :^)
Harry - one more thought.
Are you using one single naked leaf spring on your I Beam ? Naked meaning there is no damping material attached to it. This set up works well with high compliance carts and also bad out of center records; provides damping. Your Lyra is not high compliance and would benefit from less damping. I believe things will tighten up and come more alive.
If you contact Bruce he will send you 5 leaf springs and two I beams to make up double and triple leaf spring I beams. The cost for this is low, a few dollars, but the rewards can be high. There are others that have stuffed, "stuff" ...."material".... down beside the leaf spring to make it stiffer. Do this proper and get the real leaf springs from Bruce direct.
Just a recommendation. Good luck.
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Hi Harry
" no hammer required "
hah hah ....lol...I like your sense of humor :^)
there is a pic on my virtual system of the three I Beams. I looked #37. Good number for a race car ?
It’s been a really long time since I touched the I Beam or changed carts. I have been just playing records.
I would slide the weights off the I beam first, then you only need to loosen the end cap bolt. The I beam pulls right out. The leaf springs are glued together onto the I Beam - become permanent. Bruce can send you loose leaf springs and beams that you assemble and glue; or he will do it for you - but only if he is around and not traveling. In this case there might be wait. Warning ...he might be flying around somewhere studying the hearing of another exotic animal. What a life ! Make sure you say Hi to him from us here. I still can’t believe he took time out for us to test out the 420str cartridge aka..cracker jack box cartridge.
I’m not sure what you mean by trough oil migrating out. I only use enough to just touch the bottom of the paddle. Unfortunately, I have never come across any oil in this Audio hobby, or even boating and auto hobbies, that is not messy and just a real PITA. You need to be careful around it, and I am not the most careful person that’s for sure.
In discussions with Bruce years ago I did ask him why he didn’t put the trough at the front, assuming the arm is mounted on the right side of the table. From what I recall he said it was too messy and too great a chance of an accident happening in front. Analog can be so hazardous you know, compared to ........ Digital. Until you maybe accidentally delete your digital music files by mistake.........with no backup .......hah hah
The ET2 troughs are no longer made as far as I know so valuable, to an ET2 owner.
When not using the turntable I keep the armwand over so the cartridge is near the spindle. I then put a cover over the back end of the ET arm covering the trough and far end of the air bearing spindle/weights/I beam. I keep an old record on the platter itself. Dust still gets underneath it :^(
btw - A very nice cart you have with that Delos.
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Harry - my turntable doesn’t come with a dust cover like your vpi; so I keep the parts that matter covered and just dust the rest of it as needed. I do need to come up with a better system because the kitty stole the drive system from it last month. 8^0 |
How do you sleep at night ? When I first discovered the silk thread/string gone, I panicked and looked at the exposed tonearm wiring. It was intact. Then I looked for the cantilever on the cart. It was still there too. Sigh of relief. She didn’t go to town on it. Door stays closed now. Never did find the silk thread .....don’t know where she dragged it to. Sounds like you have a well setup rig Harry. I look forward to hearing of the results. Myself, I would keep the trough paddle not touching while you determine which of the I beams work best in your system with that cartridge. The triple I beam will make tracking the most difficult - least amount of damping. This is just like a car on a race track with three suspension settings. Race tracks differ as do LPs especially the eccentric ones. The theory - We are matching the I Beam action to the compliance of the cartridge; at the same changing the resonant frequency of the I Beam with the thicker leaf spring (multiple joined springs) ; to hopefully be more in sync with the less compliance cart. Your ears will tell the real story. I owned a couple VPI’s in the past. My first ET2 came on a HW19 MKIV with the piano black finish - suspended, but no speed controller. That lead to a TNT that I owned for a few years. My current main table works much differently. The thread is applied loose and the motor delivers shots of power to keep the heavy platter rotating. If I change the speed on the motor a little, the platter speed change does not register till about 5 seconds later. That’s how little effect the motor has on the rotating platter. Hope I’m not wearing you out. I really like the AudioGon sharing of info during the winter. Usually on here in the morning. The caffeine kicking in is responsible for all the detail. Until the bears that Frogman alluded to, take me away in late Spring; the schedule depends on when those pesky black flies calm down. I can deal with mosquitoes, I can deal with horse flies...but those damn blackflies ... You have me very curious about your preamp ? |
Quite the story on your special CAT SL1 Harry. Thanks for sharing. Your preamp is a keeper, and I think you will be between a rock and a hard place if you bring another preamp in. I have a story about a preamp too, and find it very ironic after your story.
When I went to audition an ARC Sp11 MKII, some 20+ years ago, the owner selling the SP11 also had a CAT SL-1 in the room. He had just bought the Sp11 MkII on a local audio website. I know because I had missed out on it, but was surprised to see it for sale again so soon. I wasn’t happy that he had raised the price couple hundred, but I probably would never see one again, so I went to see and hear it. One of my preamps at the time was the ARC Sp8 for a number of years, so I brought it along. Long story short. We went back and forth with the 3 preamps listening to music for a few hours. Thinking about it now, isn’t it amazing that complete strangers can do this together ?
Now I know he was not sure if he really wanted to sell it (one reason the session lasted so long); but what was he going to do with two preamps? I ended up going home with it. I sold the sp8 at a later date that year. The Sp8 price has doubled since. There is a real following for that thick sounding Sp8 preamp.
Now the thing about the ARC SP11MKII. We were running it that day in full featured mode where all the features/controls "circuits" are in play. All those circuits can be bypassed with flick of a switch and run in ARC’s hot rod mode. It’s a different beast when run in this mode. Plus it has adjustable gain on a dial, separate from the level/volume. ARC still don’t offer that anymore. I have trialed with some pretty good preamps since, but none have sounded better. So still have it. I consider the SP11 MKII and the CAT SL-1 among those very special Audio Products. I discovered Bruce used an SP11 when he tested out our Acutex.
Also
I am of the opinion after my experiences with trialing other preamps and balanced designs; that if something is designed right and executed well - the single-ended circuit can in fact sound better than balanced because fewer parts are being used. You do have to be more anal with your cable setup, positioning, grounding.
That SP20 you mentioned looks interesting, but you know... I am getting some not great vibes from ARC just from the communication aspect, or lack of, with Kalvin at ARC over the last year. All replies have come back not as Kalvin, but as general ARC Customer Service with not much help except "look in the manual". Not the company in this regard it once was. Used to be able to ring up Leonard or Kalvin, or email, and get a schematic or ask a question. I think those days are gone with the new ownership.
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