Doug Schroeder Method, Double ic

Was the Red Dragon amp a class D amp?

Taras22, have you or Ken tried any of your double double IC assemblies with a class D amp?

One can always pm Teo_Audio (Ken) or taras22 (Taras) and inquire about pricing on their products not listed on the market site. I strongly suspect their prices, risk-free audition period and warranty are the same as list previously on the market site. Or just pm them via one of their listed ads on the market site. 

+1, tuffy72561

The Teo Audio interconnects improve significantly with in-use conditioning. Other cables will too. You should condition your cables before doing up SM assemblies. You are in for a surprise. 

Everything in terms of SQ improves when moving from the GC2 to the Ultra. I presume the Kronon improves by a significant margin over the Ultra, but I don’t personally know this for a fact as I don’t own a set of Kronon cables. 

Speaker cables configured in a double run, aka shotgun cables, have been around for decades. Nobody thought it would work for IC’s. 

Maxima95, this thread addressed the concern about connecting SM assemblies to a class D amp. See above taras22 post regarding Red Dragon amps. No issues. 

Well, maybe taras22 should confirm that they tried their Double double assembly with the Red Dragon amps. 

Frankly, I don’t see how any SM assembly can be problematic for a class D amp if any of Teo Audio cables work with them. Teo Audio claims their fluid liquid metal conductors have a 1GHz+ bandwidth. That easily extends well into and beyond the bandwidth of switching frequencies of a class D amp. 

To remind folks about Canare StarQuad IC’s and Dual Canare StarQuad IC assemblies: These IC’s in their single configuration have 2 conductors per leg (signal and return). So the SM version has 4 conductors per leg running in parallel to the RCA plug terminals. That’s 8 conductor paths total into a single plug. No big deal. 

Ahhh...yes. I recall the power supply isssues you guys spoke of for class D designs. 

I am offering this as a public service announcement: the SM, as described by Doug Schroeder in his original Audio Blast article, only applies to IC’s.

Whatever y’all want to do with power cables and speaker cables is up to you. But doubling up those configurations is not the equivalent to the SM for IC’s.

I have a set of 4 Monster Cable Y-splitters available. Anybody interested can PM me.

You can lead a horse to water...but don’t expect that horse to drink while you’re around.

I’ll be posting a sales ad for a set of 4 solid Y-splitters on the market site today if folks want to try the SM on the cheap. Consider this a PSA of a future event.

Refresher: the Schroeder Method (“SM”) of interconnect cabling a system refers to taking 2 similar or dissimilar brands of interconnects and connecting them in parallel. Y-splitters can be used for native interconnects. One can also use manufactured assemblies in which the separate interconnects (typically of the same brand and type of core cabling) are configured in parallel and terminated with the desired connectors (RCA, BNC, XLR or AES/EBU).

Douglas Schroeder posted the original article here:
https://www.dagogo.com/audio-blast-schroeder-method-interconnect-placement/

The main cable forum thread here is the following:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/doug-schroeder-method-double-ic

In that forum thread are 2 further links to Teo_Audio threads that describe possible mode of action behind the method. Those are essential reading as to the underlying principles that really aren’t addressed in the above thread. Commentary at the end of Schroeder’s Audio Blast article cited above also provides insight.

ketchup, you need to catch up. Lol.

Several cable shops (e.g., HAVE, Inc. and Audio Sendibility) and manufacturers (e.g., Teo Audio, Anticables, Acoustic BBQ and a couple others) have made integrated SM assemblies for audio terminations using RCA or XLR connectors, or digital terminations using RCA or AES/EBU connectors. One doesn’t need Y-splitters for those cables.

Please see reference to the Teo Audio Double Double IC thread listed on the first page. Actually, it begins roughy on Page 5 of the following thread:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/new-teo-audio-ics-who-has-them?page=5
All of those IC’s are essentially SM assemblies of their single version counterparts.

ketchup. I understood your Q.

The only way to evaluate the SM complete assemblies without splitters is to compare them against the same IC’s used with Y-splitters. I did that with the HAVE, Inc. Canare IC’s (separate IC’s with Y-splitters vs SM integrated dual Canare IC assemblies).

It goes without much consideration that reducing 12 discrete external connections involving 4 separate connectors to only 4 connections will be a benefit for SQ.

Shotgun speaker cables has been around since the 1970’s. That’s not what the SM is about. If one wants to double up speaker cables, then have at it. Enjoy the SQ benefits!

Folks should know there is an extensive discussion of the SM of interconnect placement in posts made on the “The Science of Cables” forum thread.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-science-of-cables

Gerry, how are your HAVE custom built IC's working out for you? Post your thoughts....

I got positive feedback from A’gon member ger1823 who ordered a few sets of Canare dual assemblies from HAVE Inc. per the “Celander Specification” with the best Canare RCA connectors HAVE stocks. I encouraged him to post his findings here on this thread. 

@grannyring: What brand do you use for RCA connectors for the SM assemblies?

flat4: HAVE built a digital (110 ohm) Canare Dual Assembly (SM) with XLR connectors for me. Pretty sure they can do the same with audio cables terminated with XLR connectors.

@douglas_schroeder:

Sounds like we need a SM IC “shootout” using only integrated SM parallel assemblies.

Indeed! I referenced “we” in the editorial sense as meaning “YOU, DS.”  Lol

DS: I pm’ed you. 

My Theta DSPro Basic 3A R2R DAC has no issues with SM IC’s. 

Here is my room hit list for Friday morning at AXPONA 2019:

16-Aster: Shelter

384: Schiit

354: Fern & Roby

362: ATC/Lone Mountain Audio

442-444: Glenn Poor/Technics

452: Aesthetix

478: CPT A/V; Emerald Physics

552: Xact Audio

546: Linear Tube Audio

606: Linear Tube Audio

652: CAT

670: Benchmark Media Systems

696: Linear Tube Audio

1429: Sanders Sound Systems

1440: Durand Tonearms & Evolution Acoustics

1480: AGD Productions

8415: Linear Tube Audio

8470: Etymotic Research

9424: Mag-Lev Audio

Hope to see some of you in the rooms!
Dan

I will have an Exogal Comet Plus DAC in the system on Sunday. Feeding it will be my Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK2 transport. I have a few AES/EBU digital cables to sample, including an SM assembly. Should be interesting. 

Just want to update this thread with a reference to page 15 of the following thread, per Doug Schroeder's two posts from April 25th:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-science-of-cables?page=15

^^^Doug tested an SM AES/EBU digital cable and recommends it!

@taras22, I did catch up with High Water Sound at AXPONA 2019 after I realized he had some Teo Audio products. But I think we already chatted about this. 

maxima95, I have a Dual Canare StarQuad digital IC with Neutrik XLR connectors.

I tested another HAVE Inc. custom built DS dual Canare StarQuad integrated assembly (per “Celander Specification”). The integrated assembly is 1-ft length having an RCA male connector at one end and an RCA female connector at the other end. Burned in a set on my cable cooker and tested it with a 1-meter set of Nordost Red Dawn ribbon interconnect cables. Dramatically improved the SQ over the ribbon IC’s alone. Such an integrated SM assembly could provide a “taste” of the improved SQ benefits of a SM assembly for those who own uber-expensive IC’s but don’t want to buy a second, identical set of uber-expensive IC’s (along with 4 external Y-splitters) to test the SM of interconnect placement in their system.

essentialaudio, thanks for sharing the white paper. Interesting read.

With respect to an alleged incompatibility issue between a DS cable and class D amplification, I suspect it only arises as a very rare exception for poorly designed class D amplifiers. The allegation is largely based upon the DS cables passing far more information in an extended frequency bandwidth that messes with the switching frequencies of certain class D amps, at least that is my take-away from numerous threads.
On the other hand, Teo Audio liquid metal fluid cables allegedly have a 1GHz+ frequency bandwidth, and I have heard no compatibility issues with using those cables with a class D amp. So I suspect many of the alleged concerns are unwarranted.

Just my two cents.

What’s shaking, peeps? Just confirming that the aforementioned patent application is undergoing active examination before the US patent office. 

And audio2design, we filed our provisional application well within the prescribed timeframe for securing a valid patent from a non-provisional application claiming priority to that earlier-filed provisional. 

@jayctoy SM analog IC’s with XLR connectors should be fine with your SACD player. Please report your findings with it!