Dear Todd: Congratulations for your choose !!. The high-pass filter is the one that do the crossover for the frecuency range that will handle for the main speakers, example: frecuencies from 80Hz and up; and the low-pass is the filter that send the frecuency range to the sub, example: 80Hz and down.
The parametric EQ allow to perform adjustements with a specific frecuencies, that's it that the filters in a parametric EQ are variable and with a variable Q ( broad band ). In a graphic EQ the frecuencies and the Q are fixed.
Maybe you will have to use both of these EQ. You can know it when you try to do the integration to your system/room.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Darkmoebius: What you are hearing is right: "Everything was rather muted in a undefined way. ".
For the low bass reproduction has " means " for our " ears " it has to be working with the midrange sound, other way ( 80Hz and down ) you will heard what you already heard.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Darkmoebius: You can try the CD from the original soundtrack film: Sneakers. REL suggest to use it in the four track for test the subs room integration.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Darkmoebius: It looks great. I will try this week-end ( if I can ).
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Todd: I think that the man with the Dynaudio speakers have or a room's problem or a Velodyne High-pass filter problem in his sub.
A high-pass filter is a very simple design subject, there is no " high technology " here or " genius " know-how.
If, like the people of Velodyne say, the high-pass filter of the DD series is the same than in the HGS series: don't worried about, is a good one. Btw, don't worried about that specific phase issue on that thread.
Stay calm.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Doug: There are many critical subjects/issues for to have a better quality sound reproduction at home. The integration of two subwoofers in a true stereo way is one of the most critical subjects and where any body can hear the great improvement that we can achieve.
Almost ( before this thread ) no one on this forum talk in " deep " about this sub subject.
We all always are talking and looking for a better quality sound reproduction through our systems: TT, cartridges, tonearms, phono preamp, VTF,VTA, etc... , I think that the sub subject is more important and is time to care about and enjoy all their advantages.
No, I don't think that will be worth to add one sub to your system: you need " room ".
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Doug: Tks God Emily pass through our country ( twice ) with not many damage like everyone waiting for. Tks for ask.
regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Sirspeedy: +++++ " ).They felt that since my speakers had superb output down to 35-40 hz,and since my room was only 22.5x13x8,the "second sub" was not a "Real" necessity! " +++++
As you know your Ascents are not the only speakers that are " superb down to 35-40 Hz ". I can tell you that the moment when you can integrate two subs in a true stereo way in your system: you will be shocked!!. The Sumiko people loose/missed the real subs subject.
Btw, what you think or what I think about is totally irrelevant, what is relevant is a FACT and that fact will tell you anything about: the FACT : " the integration of two subs in your system ", you have to try it, you have to heard it at your place: is the only true way to really knows about.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Sirspeedy: +++++ " then any low frequencies are perceived in "mono" anyway!.. " +++++
I don't know at which frecuency you are cutting your REL. But, for example, if the crossover is at 27-30Hz and if the low pass filter is of second to fourth order then your REL is reproducing frecuencies as high like 80-100Hz that does not percieved in " mono way " and that are interfering with the same frecuency range of your main speakers.
Any way, as I already told you what you or I " think " is irrelevant: only the " facts " count.
+++++ " ,you have NOT heard every room,or mine.. " +++++
You are right and I agree with you.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Scott and Darkmoebius: You are really trying hard the subs integration on your system. This is the only way to do it. We have to have: patience, very good " ears ", high musical experience, very good reference " sound " ( CD/LP ) and more patience.
+++++ " .When you get it "right",you'll immediately know it,as the system will "open up",while retaining proper "weight"!Best of luck! " +++++
Sirspeedy is right, but that is more easy to " tell " than to do it and that is the whole end of the subs integration.
One tip that works for me was: play a little with music with out bass or very little bass contents ( better with CD than with LP ) and compare with subs and with out subs. With this test you could know if the subs volume and crossover frecuency is on target or near target.
Other tip: for a little time don't do more " subs changes ", stay with what you think is " near to the best integration ": listen to your system for two-three days, then go to listen to a live event ( live music ), wait one-two days before you " play " music again on your system, after this " system break " start again with your system and do the adjustements that you think it needs.
If you can't go to listen to live music, then only do the " system break " for two-three times and " see " what happen.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Scott: +++++ " So why does almost everyone put the sub behind the satellites??? Aesthetics? Convenience? Sound? " +++++
I don't know for sure: sometimes for convenience, some times for sound or aesthetics.
When I start the integration of my subs I try at the corners ( behind the main speakers ) but does not work: bass too heavy. I try in line ( outside and inside ) with the mains: terrible. I try others room location till I finish with boths subs in front of the mains facing each other and in " open air " position.
If you take a look on speakers designs some of them have their woofers in a side of the cabinet facing each other: NHT, Coincident, Gallo, etc....
I know that everything about is room dependent but by coincidence like six months ago a friend of mine call me to invite to hear his new purchase: Velodyne DD-18. He owns ML with Levinson electronics.
He explain me all the DD-18 features ( very interesting ) and how easy to find te right position in any room and he explain me that the best position of the DD-18 was in the right corner behind the main speakers and front/firing.
Then we start to hear some music: classic, Jazz, rock, etc.., the sound was good but not good enough for what the system " have to offer ". Something was " wrong " with the bass ( only one subwoofer ).
I suggest him to put the DD-18 side-firing instead front-firing, we do that and Voila!!! the bass problem disappear. He do the measurements through the hardware/software in the DD-18 and he find that side-firing do an improvement in measurements too. Coincidence??
I don't have a sound degree to explain why the side-firing position could improve the bass response, but it works.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Scottshannon: Very interesting post.
+++++ " .Keep the xover lower than 80hz if using floor speakers that have bass below 50hz. I prefer 55-60 at the top of the range. " +++++
My floor speakers are flat down to 20Hz. I'm crossing around 80Hz and I'm very satisfied with this.
I already try other crossover frecuencies and the best ( at least in my room/audio system ) was 80Hz. It is the best overall, mean: best bass, mid bass, midrange and high frecuencies sound reproduction perception.
I try the 80Hz crossover frecuency in other room/audio systems and; by coincedence, works very well.
I always recomended to start the subs integration with a crossover frecuency at 80Hz and move from there depending of each room/audio system.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Sirspeedy: +++++ " .If anyone wants to add "good" low frequencies,to an already good speaker,then the technology is readily available.The problem,to me,on this thread,is that some of the recommendations may scare away some potential music lovers,with the inference of needing 2 units,or additional crossovers.It is simply NOT true. " +++++
The problem is not on this thread. The problem is your approach about, you are talking of something really different for what this thread is all about.
The thread is extremely clear and is not a thread for to " add good low bass " like you say, this subject is for other different thread.
I urge you to read again an very carefully this link thread:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27
Here are the targets of this thread. Your concept is an old one ( I respect that ) an different from the whole subwoofers subject explain in this thread.
Please don't be or don't do that others people can be confused about.
Of course that the integration of two subwoofers in a true stereo way has its own trade-offs: need space room, two subwoofers, money, ettc., but what we can get for these trade offs in quality sound reproduction you can't imagine and every trade off about is justify. This is up to what any one want to have about music sound reproduction through their own audio system.
I can assure you and to any one: nothing come close to the integration of two subs in a TSW. Period.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Sirspeedy: I understand what you mean and I agree with you.
+++++ " .We are still talking about low freq performance " +++++
Here it is our differences: you are talking about low freq performance and I'm talking about the whole frecuency range where the low freq is only a part of it. That's all.
+++++ " So I know exactly what you are talking about. " +++++
Maybe here is the problem: that you " think " what I'm talking about, but your posts tell me others things. Who knows?
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Speedy: Now we can be in the same " channel ".
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Scott: I understand the why for only one sub. But the test that you do with the second sub tell you that you can do an improvement in a future when you already want it.
Your test is very educational to all of us. Tks for sharing your experience about.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Carlos: It will be very interesting for all of us to know your points of view about the subs integration, now that you already have both subwoofers.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Skushino: I read the second link that I think is very interesting about the subwoofers subject. All the live and computer experiments tell us many things, that one with 5,000 subwoofers ! ! !!!.
At the end they found that the near perfection about LF it can have it with four subwoofers but they conclude that we can have a very good LF performance with two subwoofers ( and very practical ), this is what they find it:
+++++ " Two subwoofers is very nearly
as good and has very good low as good and has very good low
frequency support as well. " +++++
I think that we are in the " right road ".
Tks for the links. I will take the time to read the other one.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Scott: The audiholics link is a good one too, but is more dedicate to HT systems. In this link there are some interesting facts in the: Setup Tips.
Tks for share with us these info. Is really educational.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Stringreen: IMHO the subwoofers help to any audio system in many ways other than improve the low bass response.
Please read here: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Doug: You are always welcome. Please let me know if you are ready to do it.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Truthseeker: I agree.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
DEAR FRIENDS: There is a subject that maybe is not very clear about the integration in a true stereo fashion of powered subwoofers with " full range " speakers like Dynaudio Evidence/Temptations, Dali Megaline, Wilson Maxx2, etc, etc,...
We can think that with a FRS the integration of two powered subwoofers can't do any help to improve the quality sound reproduction. I can tell you that even with FRS the integration of subs can help a lot, let me to give my opinion about::
- That elusive full octave in the low bass is a headache for any one, especially for the loudspeaker manufacturers: they have to choose very carefully the right trade-offs about.
In the other side, we the FRS customers have to choose the right amplification device for really " take-out " and " live " that marvelous low bass reproduction through those FRS: a very hard task, it does not matters the speaker design and the amplifier design.
- There is no single external / stand alone amplifier that can work or do a better job than a low bass dedicated amplifier like the one that comes with a powered subwoofer:
think that this dedicated bass amplifier was designed/tailored to match every single woofer parameter: impedance, frecuency response range, damping, power, distortion, etc, etc,...
- It is not only this dedicated amplifier what makes this subwoofer approach/technology ideal to handle the low bass octaves.
The driver/woofer is designed/tailored too for that specific frecuency range.
There is no passive FRS, at any price with any amplifier, that could beat a self powered subwoofers in that frecuency range. When you have and hear the subs on your system you never can live again with out those subwoofers.
Here we have to remember other important issue: the best subwoofers are SERVO CONTROLLED, this characteristic give to the subwoofer a heavy advantage over a FRS about the low distortion that a well designed subwoofer had against a higher distortions on any FRS.
- With a subwoofer we not only gain with a lowest harmonic distortion but with a lowest intermodulation distortion too. This means better quality sound reproduction.
- Other advantage is that with the integration of two subwoofers in a true stereo fashion to a full range speakers system: the main ( s ) amplifier will be free of those high power consumtion low bass frecuency range: this means too, better quality music sound reproduction. No exception.
- Other advantage with the subs integration is that facilitate the integration of our mains speakers to the room.
Do you think that your FRS audio system sounds great? Wait till you do the subwoofers integration: you will be on music heaven !!!!!!!! Nothing less. Try it.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear friends: I'm sorry but I'm not sure if the Dali Megaline is a real full range speaker. I think so and that's why I mentioned but I'm not sure.
Anyway, this one could take advante off subs integration.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Sirspeedy: +++++ " Servo systems offer their own set of problems(ex:heavy work load on amp). " +++++
I really don't know what you are talking about.
I have my two Velodyne ( servo controled ) HGS-15 for two years and I never " see"hear " any problem about. Its dedicated amplifiers don't have any problem about.
Who tell you rhis?.
+++++ " .Room loading,with a careful ear,costs absolutely nothing,and may ameliorate the need for any aftermarket sub systems. " +++++
Room loading with a careful ear.. Sorry, what do you mean with this?
+++++ " and may ameliorate the need for any aftermarket sub systems. " +++++
My opinion is that f the room enable and if we don't have a self powered full range speakers: any one needs and after market sub system for an improvement in the quality and complete true music sound reproduction experience at home.
I will take your advice about Rel.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Hey Sirspeedy: +++++ " problems(ex:heavy work load on amp). " +++++
I'm still waiting for your answers: where or who tell you that? Which the explanation about ?
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Sirspeedy: Time to time, I really appreciate if you can share with us information from that book that you think is really interesting on the whole subs subject.
Tks in adavance.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Tbg: Yes, that is the best start way to set the subs volume system.
Tks, regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Mdhhoover: I can see that you are using your subwoofer for bass reinforcement and this is one of the several benefits of the subwoofer integration in an audio system. There are other benefits that could help more to que quality sound reproduction that only bass reinforcement. Please take your time and read this link:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Eldartford: Please remember that those posts were posted years ago and in one of them you stated that 80Hz crossover frequency.
Thank you for the up-date.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Readster: I never had the opportunity to hear the LFM-1 but I think that that subwoofer could integrate better in a home theather system than in a high-end true stereo system.
As a fact that sub goes down " only " to 25Hz and their electronic quality seems to me a little short of a high-end product.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear friends: I found a Stereophile article that confirm what I already posted about the " must " : two subs in a true stereo way. here it is:
" A simple advantage is that two subs operating in-phase less than one wavelength apart wil generate 6dB more output than a single sub....................If you have two sources arranged in the room so that the left and right woofers are equally far for their respective side walls and equally far from the common wall behind them, most of the standing wave patterns remain the same......the two woofers simply reinforce each other's standing-wave patterns........So while such symetry is desirable at middle and high frequencies for the sake of stereo soundstaging, it may penalize you at low frequencies. This situation change if the bass in the recording is not monophonic. When an orchestra or pipe organ is recorded with widely spaced mikes, bass waves arrive at sligtly different times at each mike. If the bass is not blended into mono for disc mastering, these timing differences will be preserved in playback. The effect is akin to moving one woofer closer or farther away, destroying their simmetry so that the woofers no longer reinforce each other standing-wave patterns.. ......You can achieve a similar result with mono bass by using two subwoofers but placing them asymmetrically.... The bass waves from the two woofers arrive at each boundary surface at different time, producing partial cancellation of the standing waves. These wave interference effects tend to diminish the severity of the peaks and nulls, yielding a more uniform distribution of bass energy within the room. "
Fortunatelly, in my system, I have my two subwoofers in asimmetrically way and I can confirm exactly this very " old " Stereophile statement.
As always I posted: you have to try it: is a " must " to have. Period.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Doug: The asimmetry is with respect to the room boundaries ( side/behind walls ) not if the woofers are side firing.
In my case my subs are placed side firing but the right side sub has no simmetry with the left side: the right one is in an almost open boundary.
Anyway, I prefer the subs in side firing position over the front firing. The Coincident are very good speakers and like in the NHT speakers the Coincident has benefits from their side woofers firing, if one of your room side L/R is asimmetric against the other then you are done !!!.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Doug: " +++++(Facing in would aim a woofer directly at the TT and amplifiers, not a good idea!) " +++++
Well, it don't seems like a good idea but in my system both subs are facing my three TT's and I never detect any problem cause by the sub's. You have to try, I'm almost sure that you will not find problems about.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Eldartford: +++++" there is no one best X/O frequency, at least for my system. " +++++
This is the name of the game. In my system it is an audible change when I sweep the frequency.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear friends: For almost two years I was running the crossover frequency between my main speakers and the Velodyne's at 85-90 Hz.
It sound very good and let free the main speakers for the low bass reproduction responsibility lowering the Intermodulation Distortions level. The issue with that crossover frequency is that the subwoofers are reproducing frequencies that are not only out of its best frequency range of perfect quality reproduction but that those " high frequencies " are recognizable coming from the subs and " interfering " with the overall quality sound reproduction.
Two weeks ago I begin trying other croosover frequencies and ( today with my ystem ) I find that 60 Hz ( I try down to 40 Hz )is the way to go. This crossover frequency change makes wonders on the quality sound reproduction of my system, specially on transparency ( see through ), detail, immediacy and overall soundstage. Through this change my system is a " new system ", a lot better quality sound reproduction audio system, I'm feeling nearer to the recording, nearer to the live event with an increase of music emotions.
Well, like any of you I'm always looking for a better way to go, fortunately ( till today ) almost always exist that better " road ".
Regards and enjoy the music.
raul. |
Dear Eldartford: +++++ " My point is that the crossover electronics should permit the frequency to be easily changed, and one should not be afraid to adjust it as freely as the volume control. " +++++
I respect your point of view and certainly any one is free to make about what any one think is better for achieve the quality performance that are nearest to its music sound reproduction priorities.
My point of view is a " little " different from yours: I don't like to use the subwoofers ( crossover/volume ) like a continnuous " bass equalizer ". My first target is to obtain the best quality sound reproduction from my main speakers lowering the Intermodulation Distortion through let it them free to reproduce frequencies from 60Hz and lower and my second target is to obtain a better quality bass performance through a dedicated/specialty audio item ( subwoofer ) and to obtain ( too ) a lower bass response.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Eldartford: +++++ " My ability to sweep the X/O frequency without audible effect may not be usual " +++++
Certainly it is not .
In your Organ example ( crossover 200-300 Hz )and in your very well designed system I'm still worried about Intermodulation Distortions that with that high crossover frequency and with organ music it will be really high IMD: the organ music could go down to 16Hz or lower and normally in that kind of music your sub's are trying to reproduce frequencies in the very low bass: 16Hz to 40Hz and at the same time you are asking to reproduce in clean manner frequencies ( very critical audio range ) between 100Hz and 300Hz+, well this is what I'm concern of IMD.
Anyway at the " end of the day " you are crossing over 80Hz that makes more sense to me.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Sirspeedy: +++++ " if the main speakers can support a certain low frequency,before rolling off,it will be best to bring in the sub at just under this point. " +++++
Well this is one approach that mainly goes to have a lower bass response: it is the REL approach and other subwoofer manufacturers but not all of them.
My approach is different from yours, mine goes to obtain ( first place ) a better quality performance in my main speakers and in second place to achieve a better quality bass performance that could goes lower too.
I use two subwoofers in true stereo way to achieve those targets, the first one ( that you can't achieve with your approach. ) is obtained lowering the Intermodulation Distortion ( main speakers ), this means to stop to ask to the woofers ( main speakers ) the simultaneous reproduction of frequencies between 20Hz and 200HZ or higher( if yours goes flat to 30Hz then you still have some distorted response at 20Hz that makes higher the IMD subject/problem ), this means ( again ) that we have to choose a crossover frequency higher than what the main woofers are handled : in my case 60 Hz and in Eldartford 80Hz.
In this manner the main woofers will be free/less stressed of the low bass reproduction working from 60Hz-80Hz up and lowering ( cleaning in deep ) the IMD: this fact makes a huge improvement ( in any speaker including yours ) in the quality sound reproduction of the main speakers ( it is not matters what you think about or what I think about, lowering the IMD always improves the quality performance of " that " driver, physics laws. ).
The second advantage on this approach is that now the low bass frequency response not only goes down through the subwoofers but with a better quality bass performance due that those bass frequencies will be reproduced for " drivers /amplifiers " that were designed specific for those kind of bass frequencies.
I respect your approach but I don't like it because it can't give me a whole better quality performance in help to the music reproduction, instead my approach give us all. Through this thread are explained almost all you have to know about, please re-read it.
As I told you it does not matters what you and me think about, IMHO you must try that approach to make the " discovery " of your whole audio life.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Johnnyb53: +++++ " In system tuning, optimizing full-range speakers (let alone minimonitors) for imaging *and* bass response can drive you crazy. A sub enables you to tune for both. " +++++
This is one of the real subs integration advantages.
Regards and enjoy the music.
raul. |
Dear Chad: +++++ " , the VMPS with outboard cross-over and a high power Caver amp with gain control for the woofers is all I need, Organ notes no problem. They claim usable bass down 10db at 16hz, " +++++
Well, this seems to me like you already have a subwoofer through your VMPS speakers, so you don't need an additional one. Btw, which croosover frequency do you choose?
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear friends: Almost always we can to be rewarding our time/efforts trying to improve our audio system setting.
Yesterday I wonder what could be happen if I set up my subwoofers a little higher from the floor and this is what I do, four inches total height ( maybe in the future I could try a higher one but for the moment I'm very satisfied. )
The change was/is remarkable: the bass is more tight and with better definition( pitch ), less " bass noise/garbage ", better midbass and clearer/clean midrange/high frequencies response. Awesome !!!!!!!!!
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Eldartford: Well your set up is very special. I'm refer to a more normal subwoofers set up.
Maybe my subwooferes could perform better at 40 inches above the floor but I can't do that.
My subject is that given a little more " space/height " to the subwoofers makes a remarkable difference in the quality sound reproduction of the whole audio system, at least that was/is what I'm experienced about with only 3 more inches ( total eight is 5" not 4" like I posted. Well 16" woofer-center from the floor. ).
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Rgordonpf: I think that you can/could achieve a very good quality sound improvement on your audio system with the addition of a second subwoofer connected in true stereo way.
Take a look/read to the link on my last post to Stringreen.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Halcro: +++++ " Great articles posted by Davehrab. " +++++
I'm sorry, maybe I miss something: could you tell me where are those articles?, thank you in advance.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear friends: Two weeks ago the left channel Velodyne subwoofer ( in my system ) goes down ( till today I don't even have time to make the diagnosis to repair it. ) and till today it is in the same state.
Well, this trouble let me change some things in my system that were very interesting and learning about:
the first action that I take was to disconnect the subwoofer left signal and connected to the available right channel subwoofer ( left and right signals in the same subwoofer ) , this right channel subwoofer is placed in an almost " open " place/position with out any wall reinforcement ( this is its original position ). I don't change the crossover frequency not even the subwoofer output level, well it sounds but in " bad " way: the response was to strong, a little congested and with too many room resonances ( that before I never experience ), I set up with low output level but things were out of my satisfaction.
So I decided to change this right channel ( the one that is working, the other was down. ) subwoofer in the same position where was the left channel one ( down one ) that has a corner wall reinforcement, well all those " wrong " subwoofer bass response disappear and everything goes on " focus " with out reproduction trouble and with out any change on crossover frequency or output level.
How sounds this alone subwoofer against the normal two subwoofers arrangement?, well it sounds good ( very good ) but the two subwoofer ( true stereo fashion ) set up is really better and worth it.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Halcro: Yes, I already read it.
What I want point in my last post is that ( at least in my system/room ) the wall subwoofer reinforcement position help to smooth the bass response against an " open " subwoofer position.
The other subject was to re-confirm that the use of subwoofers has to be in true stereo way.
I already point it out that IMHO the most important improvement that we can/could have adding a pair of true stereo way subwoofers is to lower the intermodulation distortion on the main spekaers, in this way you don't only have ( for the first time ) true undistorted low bass response ( that when you hear it for the first time it will be extremly hard to live with out it. ) but you clean up all the whole system frequency response: mid bass, midrange and high frequencies, that give to us several advantages : lower distortion response, lower coloration, higher accuracy response, better dynamics, improve over all the sounstage/imagin/focus, improve on inner detail perception, etc, etc that at the " end of the day " can(could take us nearer to the recording and nearer to the live event.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Stringree: Well a not easy room. Adding two subwoofers in real stereo fashion will be help you in many ways but additional to that that room could need some kind of " treatment " trying to even its frequency response and kill those echoes.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Bob: By coincide that was something that I already have in mind. Yes there are some changes: TT, tonearms,MM cartridges, speaker mods, Phonolne preamp up-grades, etc, etc.
Any way you can read through the " virtual system " about those changes.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Sirspeedy: I wonder what happen with you and your mind. Almost two years ago everything was clear about ( after a lot of posts betwwen you and me reasoning about. ), here it is your agreement:
+++++ " Raul,as per your last thread,I finally DO get your point,which is valid.Best wishes!
Speedy! " +++++, this was in 2005 in this thread.
Now, +++++ " For a mfgr to recommend against selling "product" my radar told me that #1--here was a responsible company .. " +++++
I'm sorry to disagree about on this subject but ( like I already posted somewhere in this thread ) IMHO that mfgr people does not nothing about improve the quality sound reproduction with the integration of two subwoofers in true stereo way, simple they don't have the precise know-how about, this ignorance IMHO is not a " responsible company " but ignorance, that's all.
Sirspeedy please re-read here ( and send to that mfgr people ):
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&158&4#158
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&4&4#4
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&176&4#176
If you and the Sumiko people can't understand what are on those links it is useless to follow talking about because both of you never had the opportunity to try the integration in your system of two subs in true stereo way but have argumentation against it: how could be that?, both of you continue with arguments with out facts!!!!.
Sirspeedy, maybe I could understand the Sumiko people ( because they are commercial oriented ) that sale the RELs that can't be integrated in true stereo fashion due that its crossover does not have a high pass filter but I can't understand to you ( with all respect ) that till today I think you are a wise and mature man.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
