Do speaker cables need a burn in period?

azbrd

@geoffkait

@hifiman51 A few years ago i replaced my existing cables with some slightly longer ones of the EXACT same brand and gauge. The existing cables had >1000 hours of use the new ones had none and I could NOT hear ANY difference between the 2 sets. I had a few friends over so I could swap the 2 sets for them, Back and forth we went and none of us could hear any difference between the sets.

I guess my system is missing "dynamic swing?" so I was unable to hear what a "broken" in cable sounds like. Also, please define what "dynamic swing" is????

>>>>There are a whole bunch of reasons why cable comparisons oft fail. Many of these reasons explain why almost any test of any audio thing fails.

1. Unplugging a cable destroys the delicate electrical/mechanical connection that took a long time to establish. So, going back and forth between cables proves nothing.

I thought you were pushing "contact enhancers" to fix this? Or maybe it was Machina Dynamica’s Brilliant Pebbles? I can’t remember.

>>>>>>>Try to keep up with the conversation. I do not push my products but I’m always happy to see someone else mention them.

2. The new cables were not properly broken in so you can’t really expect them to sound too good.

If the new cables where NOT broken in then we all should have been able to hear a huge difference between the new cables and the 1000 hour cables according to you. NONE of us heard ANY differences, no matter which direction we ran the cables!

>>>>You’re not following what I’m saying. It’s not black and white.

3. One or both cables were not connected in the correct direction.

4. As has been pointed out many times cables don’t get fully broken in without resorting to a burn in track on a test CD or a burn in device. Playing music through cables, even for years, is not sufficient.

5. Both cables in the test are not sufficient quality to reveal differences that might be there.

I’m using 10g wires with excellent resistance/capacitance/inductance specks. Please document what constitutes sufficient quality other than those metrics.

>>>>>I’m not saying all of those reasons apply to your test. But the more you talk the more I’m inclined to think most of then probably do apply.

6. The system used for the test is not of sufficient quality to reveal differences.

So now you are calling me out on the quality of my system???

>>>>>Maybe I am. It is one of the reasons why a test can go awry. You might be taking this just a tad too personally.

Well, you show me yours if I show you mine.

>>>>It’s not about me, it’s about you.

7. There are errors in the system.

What type of errors in a AC circuit

>>>>Errors can be anywhere in the system.

8. The test subjects’ hearing is not all it’s cracked up to be.

Two of use (sic) are engineers and one is a professional musician who has also mastered many CDs.

>>>>>That is an Appeal to Authority. One of the worst sounding systems I ever heard belonged to a musician. The second worst sounding system I ever heard belonged to an engineer. I am actually nit a big fan of mastering engineers, you know, due to all the dynamic range compression. If it were not a false argument then any engineer or musician in town could automatically win any argument by declaring, I’m an engineer or musician so therefore I am correct. Better luck next time.

9. Differences were masked by “outside conditions” - weather, time of day, unknown causes.

Yep, i checked. it was a high sun spot day!

>>>>>Funny. I figured you probably wouldn’t know what I was referring to. Especially unknown causes.

10. Test subjects were drunk.

you have got to be kidding????

>>>>I don’t know. Am I?

azbrd
@geoffkait

>>>>Didn’t you get the memo? Maybe you were sleeping. You don’t need to be concerned with any signal travel in the “opposite direction,” only any signal travel toward your speakers, I.e., the correct direction. Follow?

This is the pseudoscience I'm calling you on, an AC circuit (what connects a amp to a speaker) does NOT behave as you are implying! DC circuits DO behave as you describe. Please stop trying to push your Star Trek science on these forums!

>>>>There are only two possibilities. 

1. You don’t know what directionality means.

2. You don’t know what AC means.

Beam yourself up, Scotty!

5...4...3...2...

Is there an echo in here?

Whack a mole...the sport of kings. 🔨

It appears AudioKarma must have sent over some senior members.

azbrd
@geoffkait

I was waiting for you to chime in!

>>>>>I was waiting for your reaction.

1. Unplugging a cable destroys the delicate electrical/mechanical connection that took a long time to establish. So, going back and forth between cables proves nothing.

So now you are moving the new cable to old cable discussion to the electrical/mechanical connections? would this mean we need to unplug our wires every time to get to audio nirvana??

>>>>>I’m not sure we’re on the same page here. It means you can’t judge the new cables until they’ve been seated for a week.

2. The new cables were not properly broken in so you can’t really expect them to sound too good.

So >1000 of actual use is not enough to "break in" a cable???

>>>>>>>Read what I said again. The short answer is no.

Please provide us with the measurable, repeatable documentation on how to properly break in a wire!

>>>>Why, are you volunteering?

2. The new cables were not properly broken in so you can’t really expect them to sound too good.

this is my favorite geoffkait claim right up there with Dark Matter Optical Coating and his Teleportation Tweak! Just for fun I called several cable companies and asked them to sell me wires that were directional.

>>>>Sorry about that, there are quite a few backward cable companies around apparently.

ALL of them politely laughed and explained that wire does NOT have any directional property. I personally reversed the wires during our listening test and could not hear any differences.

>>>>If milk didn’t squirt out of their noses it doesn’t count. If you were the one conducting the test it certainly makes sense you couldn’t hear anything. Is there anything you can hear? Just curious. 😛

Look inside your speakers or amps, see if there is any wires in there with little arrows on them OR is there ANY documentation from these companies to advise one which direction your cables should be when connecting them??

>>>>That’s a shame since all wire is directional. Oh, well, whaddya gonna do? 😳

azbrd
@geoffkait

I forgot to ask, please provide us some actual (not from Audioquest) documentation on how wire directionality applies to an AC circuit?

>>>>Didn’t you get the memo? Maybe you were sleeping. You don’t need to be concerned with any signal travel in the “opposite direction,” only any signal travel toward your speakers, I.e., the correct direction. Follow?

AudioKarma? Now there’s bastion of backsliders and moss backs if ever there was one. I can certainly understand why you’d feel comfortable there. Ta, ta!

azbrd
@hifiman51 A few years ago i replaced my existing cables with some slightly longer ones of the EXACT same brand and gauge. The existing cables had >1000 hours of use the new ones had none and I could NOT hear ANY difference between the 2 sets. I had a few friends over so I could swap the 2 sets for them, Back and forth we went and none of us could hear any difference between the sets.

I guess my system is missing "dynamic swing?" so I was unable to hear what a "broken" in cable sounds like. Also, please define what "dynamic swing" is????

>>>>There are a whole bunch of reasons why cable comparisons oft fail. Many of these reasons explain why almost any test of any audio thing fails.

1. Unplugging a cable destroys the delicate electrical/mechanical connection that took a long time to establish. So, going back and forth between cables proves nothing.

2. The new cables were not properly broken in so you can’t really expect them to sound too good.

3. One or both cables were not connected in the correct direction.

4. As has been pointed out many times cables don’t get fully broken in without resorting to a burn in track on a test CD or a burn in device. Playing music through cables, even for years, is not sufficient.

5. Both cables in the test are not sufficient quality to reveal differences that might be there.

6. The system used for the test is not of sufficient quality to reveal differences.

7. There are errors in the system.

8. The test subjects’ hearing is not all it’s cracked up to be.

9. Differences were masked by “outside conditions” - weather, time of day, unknown causes.

10. Test subjects were drunk.

There is probably nothing more touching in the audio world than when one skeptic reaches out to comfort another skeptic. So sweet.

What’s perhaps even more disturbing, to anyone but especially the skeptics is the use of home feeders for treating cables, CDs, LPs, CD players and all manner of audio related things. Obviously -20 degrees F is not nearly as low as cryogenic temperatures -300 F nor is it low enough to significantly change the physical characteristics of copper or silver wire or the cable jacket. Nevertheless...

You might recall HiFi Tuning data sheets showed differences in resistance between cryod fuses and uncryod fuses.

Not very surprising as Monster Cable is crap. In fact, I’m surprised the Reynolds wrap was not judged better than Monster Cable. Now, if he had evaluated Reynolds wrap vs high end cable and got the same results, that would be news!

To be honest I don’t listen for cable burn in, contact enhancer burn in, system burn in CD results. Is that wrong?

jdub07
A signal is a signal, right? Cable burn-in, seriously? I have been listening to hi-fi longer than a lot of you have been alive. I have never heard cables that sound better after burn-in and I don;t spend lots of money on speaker wire. If I have money to spend I spend it on something that will make a difference like upgrading components.

>>>>>Wow, are you a vampire?

Understand. Thanks. You were told wrong. No offense to anyone.

Depends on what you mean by “directional.” All wire is directional.

Your cable guy must not have gotten the memo. Also, nothing wrong with maple blocks but I don’t think they are doing much vibration wise since the maple blocks provide a clear path for vibration. 

Thanks for reminding me why I never read your posts.

There seems to be quite a disparity between pro audio and high end audio these days. As lot of it has to do with attitude. Pro audio needs what we used to call a sanity check or attitude adjustment. As things stand pro audio isn’t really much of a force. No offense, Wolfie.

OK, here’s what you should do after purchasing any cables for best results.

1. Send them off to cryo lab. While many high end cables are cryod by the manufacturer, Cryoing twice is better. Once you get them back from the cryo lab give them about a week to recover from thermal shock before critical eval.

2. Establish correct direction.

3. Burn in using burn in track or burn in device.

4. Suspend cables from ceiling using fishing line and eye hooks to escape vibration and static electric fields.

5. Apply the contact enhancer of your choice to all electrical contacts.

At least a week after cryo. When comparing cables at least two days.

Someone’s clock shall soon be cleaned.

dachshund
I have read much of these comments (out of total curiosity) since I THOUGHT I HAVE HEARD IT ALL!! WOW, Really? I am aware that some can hear better than other's? BUT! i am also knowledgeable enough to know when i see a Scam being perpetuated on the public! it is a total Psychoacoustic sales tactic! Please people! DOGS CAN'T HEAR WHAT YOUR SAYING!

>>>>>Well, dachshunds can’t, but they run down a man at forty paces.

I’m the Pope. Total BS.

More to the point, I’d bet dollars to doughnuts naysayers and non believers on the thorny issues of burn in and directionality and cables in general have psyched themselves out. Psychologically predisposed, I think the psychologists would say. Uummmm, did somebody say doughnuts? 🍩 🍩 🍩

Hey, glubson, if must post some light hearted jibber jabber would it be asking too much to do it on the right thread?

Good one! Ouch!

prof

As you can see gawdbless: lots of anecdotes coming your way, but not much in the way of objective, measured evidence showing differences between "burned in" cables and new cables.

Looks like we got ourselves a volunteer, folks. Thanks for stepping up to the plate, Prof. I look forward to your results. 😬

Action at a distance! It’s like I’ve got a voodoo doll. The old hands off head squeeze. 👨🏻‍✈️ 💩 Bloop!

Hey, look! I didn’t even have to squeeze his head that time. He must be on auto pilot. Bombs away! 💩 💩 💩 💩

And the clock is ticking. ⏰

Thanks for the mention, flyboy. I’m giving serious consideration to promoting you to Associate Shill.

Are you having an aviation fuel fumes flashback, flyboy? 

I got you in my sights, flyboy.

justvintagestuff
Burn in everything for at least 300 continuous hours.
It's that simple - and it does make make a difference...

OK, I’m only going to say this once. Audiophiles, you know, the ones who are constantly getting new electronics, new cables, new tweaks, new capacitors, contact enhancers, fuses, what have you, are in a constant state of flux. In addition, the seasons change the sound, the days change the sound, the sound is affected by the time of day and many other things. I implore you, gentle readers, how can any real audiophile get to the point where everything is broken in? And how can he judge how things performing with so much going on? Keep a log. 

Az, it’s OK that you were lying about being an engineer. I totally understand why you would do that.  You must be the oldest Subway employee on the planet.

Good comeback, 💩🧠

Did milk squirt out of your engineer friend’s nose? One wonders if engineers are inherently closed-minded sometimes or if they’re taught to be like that.