Andy is a little...slow. No offense.
Do speaker cables need a burn in period?
I have heard some say that speaker cables do need a 'burn in', and some say that its totally BS.
What say you?
What say you?
Showing 50 responses by geoffkait
All this time and explanation, still a lot of folks don’t seem to get what is meant by the term directionality. When did arrows start appearing on audio cables? Has it really been 25 years ago? I guess Feynman was right, after all. An ordinary man has no means of deliverance. - William Burroughs “I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.” ― Richard P. Feynman |
That’s where the Feynman quote comes in about explaining things to ordinary people. But what you stated earlier was that no one could define Higgs boson, which is not (rpt not) true. Obviously someone can define and explain Higgs boson because it has become part of the Standard Model. As far as understanding atomic physics goes, obviously many peoples’ eyes would probably glaze over, same goes for a lot of things. That’s kind of how it goes. |
Teo wrote We, as a group of beings we like to call humans, still don’t know what an atom is. Nice name and descriptors and all, but if you dig into it, we still can’t really define an atomic particle with any clarity. Even with all that text, effort, and minds on it. >>>That’s completely untrue, of course. I mean unless the group you’re talking about is a bunch of briar hoppers from the backwoods of Arkansas. No offense to Arkansas. Not much in the universe is *better understood* than the atom and subatomic particles. We can measure the atom, we can locate the atom, we can even photograph the atom. IBM. Particle physics - check it out. Even the Higgs Boson is understood. And gravity and gravity waves. So, I’m afraid, Teo, you probably need to edit your post to say, “I still can’t really define an atomic particle with any clarity.” Fake mystery! See a Get Smart page on particle physics at, http://theconversation.com/the-standard-model-of-particle-physics-the-absolutely-amazing-theory-of-a... |
mitch2 Geoff “How many customers of (directional) aftermarket fuses are there since they first came out 15 years ago? 100,000? That’s a whole lot of typical people who can hear wire directionality.” Of course, I am skeptical that those folks actually hear the direction of their fuses rather than the psycho-acoustical effects of cognitive bias or loss aversion based on marketing hype and the fact those items cost more than the "regular" fuses some of us unenlightened folks use. >>>>So, you’re skeptical? So what? Get in line. That’s why audiophile fuses have been controversial from the beginning. A real skeptic doesn’t keep repeating the same old line about expectation bias or psychological effects, he rolls up his sleeves and investigates. That’s the scientific method. Of course if you’re just mouthing off and not really interested in the facts of this case I can certainly understand. |
How slow is costco_emoji? Costc_emoji is so slow that after all this time he still doesn’t know what directionality even is. All cables are directional regardless of whether they have a ground. If the cables have a ground the directionality of the wire should be *controlled* to comply with the ground direction. Audioquest does this. Most cable companies do not do this out of ignorance or laziness. The copper on printed circuit boards is not pulled through a die so it’s exempt from the directionality rule. But all the internal wiring in electronics is directional. The wire in inductors, transformers, point to point wiring, and all the wiring in speaker crossovers, and other internal speaker wiring. The industry is apparently rather retarded when it comes to the touchy sudject of directionality. And will hear none of it. Very strange IMHO. Directionality Smart Page (from Audioquest), https://www.audioquest.com/theory-education/article/83-directionality-its-all-about-noise |
mitch2 I have seen stranger things and do not doubt there could be a metallurgical basis for asymmetry based on the manufacturing process so I would not refute or even spend time arguing Geoff’s assertion of directionality but it is the "sounding better" part where I become a skeptic. There are just too many other things going on in every system for me to believe that a typical person could discern differences in wire directionality by ear. >>>>>Of course there could be reasons why someone might not hear directionality. I’ve always cautioned that negative results of directionality, like anything else, must be taken with a grain of salt since there are quite a few things that can and do go wrong with evaluations and make it difficult to hear differences. You know, things like mistakes in the system, hearing issues, and errors in the test procedure. I think it’s safe to say negative results for cable directionality are relatively rare over the past 25 years and can be thrown out. How many customers of (directional) aftermarket fuses are there since they first came out 15 years ago? 100,000? That’s a whole lot of typical people who can hear wire directionality. It’s not rocket science. You listen. Hel-loo! |
glupson "How many customers of (directional) aftermarket fuses are there since they first came out 15 years ago? 100,000? That’s a whole lot of typical people who can hear wire directionality." As with any epidemiological approach, it would be interesting to see the changes in new-fuse-buyers incidence in general market and their relationship to current marketing trends. Often, probably always, objects of hallucination are related to common names/events surrounding the affected subject. 100 000 new customers over 15 years is between 6000 and 7000 a year, assuming that someone actually knows how many different people bought such fuses. It would be hard, if not entirely impossible, to know how many individual buyers exist. However, given the very specific nature of such a purchase and obvious dedication to the subject, it is safe to assume that each buyer has bought more than one fuse. Which would greatly decrease the number of people interested in fuses and hearing those differences. In the world where number of iPhones may be approaching one billion, a few thousand people who, for whatever legitimate or not so acceptable reason, hear differences in fuses can hardly be considered "a whole lot of typical people". To begin with, people who buy aftermarket fuses are not typical and carry a heavy burden of, admittedly good-natured, potential bias on their findings. As is frequently the case, it’s probably best for all concerned to file gubson’s gibbersih under WHATEVER. |
glupson I even watched a few videos with different approaches on the Internet. Even the simplest ones look very risky to me, but that is not saying much. Thank goodness there are people who can actually pull it. >>>Speaking of different approaches you ought to consider trying some, you know other than your usual bland blah blah blah. No offense. |
andy2245 posts 09-26-2018 3:59pm First of all, resistance is a scalar quantity, not a vector, therefore it has no intrinsic direction. Just like temperature is a scalar value. It’s does not make sense to say this direction temperature is higher vs. the other direction. Resistance is calculated from electron mobility - that is how mobile the electrons given a certain material such as silver, copper ... Now since it’s hard to measure mobility of a single electron, usually mobility is measured by average using a bunch of electrons regardless of direction, at least in concept. So the mobility of electrons should be the same left to right, up to down to sideway. Therefore resistance should be the same left to right, up to down to side way and so on. But what if you want to know the mobility of a single electron? Supposedly on the left side of the electron, there is some impurity such as an oxygen molecule or some gap in the lattice structure, now if you want this electron to move to the left, it would have less mobility vs. if you want this electron to move to the right. In practicality, these impurities in the metal lattice are more or less randomly distributed so on average they cancel out therefore regardless of direction, the mobility of the average should be the same in all direction. Anyway, I have to get back to work. Will continue later. >>>>Uh, no offense, but there are so many technical errors, mistakes in logic, naïveté, and misunderstandings in that post, Andy, I hardly know where to begin but will maybe take a stab at it later. So to speak. We’ll see. Anyone else, of course, feel free to comment. Agree, disagree. Someone here must surely have an idea. Yes? No? Maybe? A legal opinion? |
andy2 Geoffkait,If I were to ask you to make a directional wire for me how would you do it? For example, I want a wire that measure higher resistance from A - B, and lower from B - A, what manufacturing technique would you use? (Alien technology is not allowed). Don’t worry, it’s not alien technology. It’s not rocket science, either. It’s super easy. Here’s how you do it. This is how the big boys do it. Don’t tell anybody. This is very hush, hush. When the big old spool of wire is delivered from the wire manufacturer, take a length of wire - keeping track of the start and end of the wire by marking it. Then, construct a digital cable that requires *only one* cable/wire. Then insert the cable into the system and evaluate which direction sounds best. Or you can bipass fuse with a small length of the wire that you marked. Then listen both ways. Voila! Then you will know how to CONTROL DIRECTIONALITY for the rest of the giant spool of wire. Problem solved. You can also instruct the manufacturer to wrap the wire on the giant spool as it comes off the final die. Now all interconnects, speaker cables, power cords, tonearm wires, HDMI cables, etc. can be easily constructed so that arrows will show the correct direction. |
@geoffkait Yes, I have rolled up my sleeves and investigated aftermarket fuses of several varieties and directionality of those fuses. Bottom line is that I do not perceive differences between those aftermarket fuses and my typical Littelfuse or Bussmann fuses (I do however perceive differences in SQ between cables, so go figure). >>>>Let me get this straight. You perceive differences in directionality of cables? Or just differences between cables? What are you trying to say? Most of those aftermarket fuses are still in my gear and I have no reason to remove them since I own them, they work, and they don’t seem to make things sound worse. Were the aftermarket inserted in the correct direction? If you can’t hear directionality and if you can’t hear the difference between fuses one assumes half of them are still in the wrong direction. No wonder you can’t hear any differences. That’s what I mean by trying to get to the bottom of things. Obviously you’d rather stick to your guns. My own trials and observations of those fuses and common sense related to the length of a fuse wire compared to the many signal traces, electrical parts, and feet of wire present in most equipment are what has led me to be skeptical of what others report hearing. However, for clarity, I do not question what they hear, just the reasons why. Also, unlike some others, I am fine with this difference of opinion and feel no need to change anyone else’s mind. >>>>We’ve already addressed the copper traces on printed circuit boards. They aren’t directional. But all the other wires are. That is part of why you can’t hear directionality. Obviously I can’t know all the reasons why you don’t get good results while many tens of thousands of others do get good results. |
justvintagestuff Burn in everything for at least 300 continuous hours. It's that simple - and it does make make a difference... OK, I’m only going to say this once. Audiophiles, you know, the ones who are constantly getting new electronics, new cables, new tweaks, new capacitors, contact enhancers, fuses, what have you, are in a constant state of flux. In addition, the seasons change the sound, the days change the sound, the sound is affected by the time of day and many other things. I implore you, gentle readers, how can any real audiophile get to the point where everything is broken in? And how can he judge how things performing with so much going on? Keep a log. |
prof As you can see gawdbless: lots of anecdotes coming your way, but not much in the way of objective, measured evidence showing differences between "burned in" cables and new cables. Looks like we got ourselves a volunteer, folks. Thanks for stepping up to the plate, Prof. I look forward to your results. 😬 |