Did I just cook my preamp?


I have a Simaudio Moon 110LP phone preamp amplifying a Dynavector 20X2L cartridge on a VPI Classic. It feeds in to an Outlaw Audio RR2160 amp which drives Magnepan LRS speakers.
 

I recently moved and two months in I realized my speaker placement wasn’t quite right, so today I reorganized my listening room. This involved unplugging some power cables but I kept most of the interconnects in place. I did have to disconnect the phone stage from the amplifier.

 

After getting things back into place, I listened to some music using coaxial input before reconnecting the interconnects of the phono stage. When I tried to, I actually got some electric current that burned my hand slightly. This came from the back of the amplifier. I made sure everything was unplugged and tried again - this time a spark and smoke from the interconnect making contact to the back of the amplifier.

 

I’m so confused why this would happen, but eventually I did get everything connected. Now the output from the phono stage is just a bump every 1 second. It doesn’t amplify the signal from the TT.

 

My amplifier has a built in phono stage and using this I was able to verify that the turntable is still producing a signal. The built in phono stage sounds terrible, however, as thin and flat as paper. It is music, however.

 

When I connect the phono stage to the power, the blue light on the front illuminates for a moment and then goes dark.

 

Incredibly, when I was unplugging the phono preamp, I actually got some current from simply touching the exterior of the box. Something is seriously wrong and dangerous with my setup, and this box was grounded to the turntable with a ground cable, which was connected to the outlet with a three prong cable with ground.

 

Has anyone experienced anything like this before? I will email Simaudio and see if they’ll repair it. I’m also taking recommendations for replacements. I liked the 110LP and maybe will just replace with the 110LPV2.

obarrett

Old rubber cloth covered insulated copper wire. This is why I advise a non electrician do not pull an outlet out of a wall or ceiling box in a really old apartment building, or an old house. 

The building Landlord has mess. An expensive mess. And more than likely the whole building’s wiring is in the same shape. 

Just a guess the electrician didn’t find a bootleg ground jumper wire on the neutral contact side terminal screw to equipment ground terminal screw on the Hot / neutral reversed polarity outlet. (outlet 1.)

I doubt he found a jumper on any of the outlets. The rubber/cloth insulation deteriorated over the years causing the bared copper wire to contact the wire support bracket. There was a 50/50 chance whether the Hot wire or the neutral wire faulted to the steel bracket / box. It’s kind of amazing that both didn’t fault to the box. Dead short.

Neutral fault to the box it’s an earth grounded box. Hot fault to box, a HOT 120Vac to ground box.

The odds are good that there are other outlets in the apartment the electrical wiring is in the same condition

Did the electrician say what type of branch circuit wiring it is? It could be BX steel armored cable. It probably comes through a hole in the back of the box and the clamp holds it in place. In the third picture I thing I can see the cut end of the armor.

 I see brick on walls in your photos. Just a guess the building is constructed of brick. ???

Did the electrician say what wiring method he will use to rewire the apartment? The only thing I can see is install surface mount Wiremold.

Wiremold steel raceway. 500 / 700 series   Start on page 47.  

I’m really curious, find out who manufactured the electrical panel that feeds your apartment. 

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@obarrett 

Correction: Edit:

Did the electrician say what type of branch circuit wiring it is? It could be BX steel armored cable. It probably comes through a hole in the back of the box and the clamp holds it in place. In the third photo I think I can see the cut end of the armor.

I looked again at the photos this morning. I am not sure that is the end of a steel armored BX cable. The empty hole in the clamp beside the one with the wires  appears to have a raised ring as well.

Also I do not think the conductors enter from the back of the box. The empty hole in the clamp shows the back of the box solid, no hole, or knock out.

I think the wiring could be old, really old, cloth covered NM cable with rubber/cloth insulation. The cable enters the box from the bottom.

What type of old wiring did the electrician say it is?

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Hi Jim,

A few things in response to your comments.

One, there was actually only one wire feeding this outlet. The wire on the left side of the receptacle was connected to nothing. Maybe it was making contact to the metal conduit, I’m not sure. In the second photo you can see a metal plate; the building super removed that. Behind that was a metal cylinder, inside it was the wire. He pulled it up a few inches and cut it away to reveal a second wire. So my understanding is that the neutral wire was lost down in this metal cylinder. He then insulated both wires by wrapping them individually in electrical tape and then rewired the outlet with these wires. I’m not sure he installed a ground or what he did with the ground. The receptacle is mounted in metal conduit as you predicted, which I presume is grounded. I don’t think he is actually a professional electrician. The only ‘electrician’ tools he carried was an outlet tester the kind you can get off Amazon.

After rewiring the outlet in this way he tested it with his tool and it failed that test (whatever it was). He then said the wiring in that side of the room must be messed up and we agreed we’d just cover that outlet up and not use it. He gave me no real explanation of what the wiring is or what might be wrong. He communicates very poorly.

The wiring clearly looked cloth covered. Correct, I saw no jumper whatsoever. Only that wall is made of brick. The others are plaster or whatever it’s called.

It’s clear to me that the building is wired illegally and that the management has no desire to rectify it. I have to consider how to handle this to minimize the risk to myself and other residents.

@obarrett Said:

One, there was actually only one wire feeding this outlet. The wire on the left side of the receptacle was connected to nothing.

Not Quite...

The wire broke when the electrician pulled the outlet and wire out of the box.

Electrical copper wire in the old days was Hard Draw. Repeated bending of a sharp bent wire and straightening out the wire then bending the wire again could/will cause the wire to break at the sharp bend point. The more the sharp bend is bent the harder and brittle the wire gets.

The original wiring method used was not kind to the hard drawn copper wire. The wires were sharply bent 90 degrees coming out of the hole of the wire clamp. From the git go, not good. Even a sharper bend over 90 degrees when the original two wire outlet was made up on the two wires and pushed back into the shallow box.

At least one new outlet was installed to the box. Every time the wire was straightened an re-bent it got harder, more brittle.That’s what hard drawn wire does. The second outlet change may have cause a stress crack in the wire at the sharp bend. When the electrician pulled the outlet and wire out of the box it broke.

It takes two to tangle. It take both, the Hot and Neutral, to make the Light Bulb light.

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What is Hard-Drawn Copper Wire?

Hard-drawn copper is bare copper wire that hasn’t had heat applied to it after it has completed the drawing process through the dies. The more times the wire is pulled through a die, the more “work hardened” it becomes. After a certain point, the wire becomes brittle and could break due to stress.

@obarrett Said:

In the second photo you can see a metal plate; the building super removed that. Behind that was a metal cylinder, inside it was the wire. He pulled it up a few inches and cut it away to reveal a second wire.

That is steel armored BX cable.  about 3/8 inch in diameter.

He pulled it up a few inches and cut it away to reveal a second wire. So my understanding is that the neutral wire was lost down in this metal cylinder. He then insulated both wires by wrapping them individually in electrical tape and then rewired the outlet with these wires.

So my understanding is that the neutral wire was lost down in this metal cylinder.

No... Your photo(s) clearly show the end of the broken wire. I could see the end of the broken copper wire. The break was at the sharp 90 degree plus bend.

He probably was able to pull a few inches of the BX armored cable out of the box and cut off the armor off enough exposing enough of the neutral wire.

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The receptacle is mounted in metal conduit as you predicted, which I presume is grounded.

Flexible BX steel armored cable. The steel armor of the BX cable back when the building was built and wired was not designed, manufactured, for use as an EGC. Nor were the BX box connectors. You may or not read continuity on the steel armored cable but that doesn’t say what its fault current conductivity is. Treat any grounded outlet in the apartment like there is not an EGC.

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It’s clear to me that the building is wired illegally and that the management has no desire to rectify it

It was wired to code when it was built.

New York City pretty much writes their own Electrical Code. Going from memory they start with NEC but they delete what ever the want. Re-write what ever they want.  Add what ever they want. My understanding Romex, NM, sheathed cable is not allowed any where in the NYC Limits.

I have to consider how to handle this to minimize the risk to myself and other residents.

Was you able to find out the manufacturer of the electrical panel? Good chance the branch circuit wiring in the building is original. Yours is... More than likely so is the electrical panels. Get the manufacturers name if you can.

It may not be worth the Fight... If you do not feel safe living there now you might want to start looking for another apartment. Just a guess, the Landlord will let you break the lease. He probably doesn't want a fight either. Though he probably has more money and government connections than you have.

Jim

 

@obarrett 

Here is a photo of an old 3 wire rubber/cloth covered wire, steel armored BX cable.

https://i.sstatic.net/pvjp6.jpg

I assume the outlet box that is now blanked off was the Hot 120Vac ground contact duplex receptacle outlet. I hope the electrician taped off or put wire nuts on the two conductors before he blanked off the outlet box. The outlet was the end of a branch circuit with several other wall outlets, and more than likely ceiling light fixture(s) a head of it.

I would suggest you buy this pair of voltage testers and check all the rest of the wall outlets in your apartment.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Digital-Non-Contact-Voltage-and-GFCI-Receptacle-Test-Kit-NCVT1PKIT/323310181?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&gStoreCode=2115&gQT=1

Use the non contact voltage tester to check for a Hot 120Vac ground contact. Any of those outlets are a possible electrical shock hazard. Put a piece of tape over the outlet so you will remember not to use it/them.

You might consider something like this to plug a power strip(s) into to feed all of your audio equipment. Feed everything from one duplex receptacle wall outlet. The total combined load amps of all the connected audio equipment is around 3 or 4 amps.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Electrical-Cords-Extension-Cords-GFCI-Plugs/GFCI-Outlets/N-5yc1vZcgerZ1z0p5yb

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