Tvad : Thanks for taking the bait. You have sniped from the corners on this issue. You are completely mistaken.
The issue here is freedom of expression and the ability to share information freely w/o concern of exploitation. Do what you will but I have lived long enought to see record collections damaged/some destroyed by silicone rags and acetone based products. All sold to innocent record collectors in the 1950's-60's.
I have repeatly said what MS does is his business and never changed my stance. Christ, I KNOW him and his circle of drones. But, when I KNOW of distortion even outright untruth, I feel an obligation to provide balanced and fair information.
Tvad, Please go spray your records with plastic bi-products that's your affair. The important matter for me is that 10-50 years hence the recordings steam cleaned by innocent readers are as playable then as today. You , can take any attachment you please spray your records with ANYTHING, have a blast.They are your possession burn them if you like. But don't come back here complaining of unintended consequences. That's what the scientific method is all about, reducing risk and untended consequences.
What I have I have explained is consequences or the perception of consequences, so the reader has some assurance some thought when into the answer. Spreading a suggestion with unintended consequences via the Net can be hurtful to Tens of thousands of innocent folks.
When I first decided to go public and hold private demostrations for a couple of European Audio designers, I was urged by a select few not to but to charge them and YOU for every word I print. My friend that gave me that advice is to making millions on the Net and I'm wasting my time with you. Thanks for the education. |
FYI: Walgreens (in MD); the "Perfection Steam Cleaner" is currently priced @ $20 w/ $10 rebate from in-store coupon booklet. |
Tvad : You would have nothing to discuss if I had not had "cocktail party" demostrations a few years past. I am pained to protect the innocent reader from misinformation. I detest this type of discource. So, let us cease. |
Readers, For One Last Time: Consumer Handheld Steamers were never designed for use with vinyl recordings. It is for that reason I keep the active steam circuit limited to the heating tank and to the base nozzel(all metal/brass parts),thereby, reducing the potential for plastic/vinyl compounds to be sprayed/leached onto the LPs.
The interaction of those chemicals contained within the cones & hoses to the vinyl is unknown, even the exact identification of those compounds is unknown.
It is perfectly possible conical attachments can be precleaned to reduce the potental of chemical leeching , but as of yet, and after dozens of cleanings, mine continue to have a "slick" feel.
As far as I know , I had been the sole experimentor with steam cleaning until just a few years ago. I have steamed close to 1,000 vinyl records ,steaming for years before publishing anything in print. Before I published, not one article had been published in any audio rag or the internet regarding steam cleaning. As for those that make claims to have steamed cleaned several thousand LPs, I say hogwash. I know the amount of time it takes to steam clean and they just can't have actually steamed that many in such a short span of time. Todate, I personally have never damaged a LP, except in a ill-fated experiment using a steam iron . Really, a bad idea.
Readers: Its your option to experiment, to accept any advice that encourges you to spray your own collection with unknown chemicals. That's OK for you ,just be mindful that when you encourage other folks(AG Readers)to put chemicals into heating tanks as "rinsers"(exact compounds unknown)or to encourage the use of chemical ladden cones and hoses ,you maybe subjecting those readers to risk. Should that advice lead to disaster , like the Armor-All debacle, whom is to remedy the matter by making those persons whole from their losses ? Anyone ? Or, do the bad advisers hide under internet monkiers immune from the damage they encouraged ? I think we all know the answer, we suffer and we pay the price. And, they write about us as if we are objects not people.
Let me make this perfectly clear, I understood when I first published in "Listener" the use of steam cleaning , I was putting that idea in the public domaine. I said so in the article. What I did not expect was how quickly the idea took hold in the Hi-End Community(Worldwide) : What I did not expect was that my cocktail party demostrations,( where I was assured nothing would be used w/o permission) , would become the founding used to expolite others for financial gain .
I detest putting record collections at risk. It is only for that reason and others, I came forward at all.
Readers be assured , I would have been perfectly content to continue my experiments out of the public glare and create my various cleaning machines for my own personal pleasure. I have but I like steam cleaning better.
When I came forward , I did not appreciate the fact I was setting myself for so much gruff from non-idea folks both here and across the pond. Its not that an idea is in the public domane, its the corruption of the idea to the point of potental harm to other collectors that causes my grief.
To anyone who feel slighted , I say go away and create a Better Idea. Don't waste your time with me do something better, give it away and THEN subject yourself to worldwide review. We arn't taking about tying shoe laces , we are discussing how to preserve world class record collections and those of the average Mary or Joe.
As for the suggestion that "no body's going to get rich" , who's kidding who ? When was the last time you went to the CES or to Europe for the Audio Shows ? Or, read an Audio Rag ? Millions of Euro's are at stake from record cleaning machines , fluids and tens of dozens to hundreds of other products that all hover around black & silver discs. Only a fool fails to see the money connection. Streamers are saving themselves lots of money that they can choose to invest in LPs , turntables or whatever. Don't think that a lot of RCM and fluid manufactures don't feel threatened. Money drives this industry. A mavorick like me encourages change w/o profit to them , now that scares the bean counters.
In closing, I can only thank the hundreds persons who have sent private emails extolling the enjoyment they now get from their record collections. And for that I say Thank You. And to the others? Put your pants on , start creating and take the risk and don't come back until you have more than hot-air to share. Anything less makes you look shabby. |
On my Perfection , tubing running from the heating unit to the nozzel is composed of metal, plastic encases the small tubing finishing off the blunt nozzel unit, partly recessed, that then acts as a base for attachment of the conical unit. T, we are done. Go play in another sand-box , come back with a better invention. |
T : I do not use any attachment, making adjustments with my gloved hand and the angle I hold the Lp.
I am open to using the conical attachment should I be able to preclean the cone to a degree that the cone stops feeling "slick" to the touch.
For me , the greater concern are the vinyl hoses that reek of a chemical smell. My concern is that smell portends of chemicals that may be deposited on newly cleaned vinyl with unknown , long-trem consequences. In previous posts, we learned that "last" & "sound guard" record wear preventatives actually made LPs unplayable 10-15 years after the application . I have reason to be concerned that the vinyl chemicals contained in the hoses could have unintended consequences similar to "Last","Soundguard" and "Armor All". |
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Herman your distorting what I ment but you have a point, even if your needle is gouging into the vinyl . Had I understood how far reaching & insiteful you are I would have never given you the time of day much less taken 100's of hours of my time to carefully doctument the process & testing Steam Cleaners to save YOU money. Herman, I plead guilty for misunderstanding the creatant thinking. You have a perfect right to be a lug and your right again. Responding takes away from my precious time that I NEED TO STEAM !! So why waste your time sending me tripe? Oh Herman thanks I think I'll listen to the needle slaming into the label full tilt , thanks again, Hey gang what a guy...Oh Doctor, Doctor do you have any little green pills to make him go away ? Thanks, Doctor I FEEL so much better...Herman get a life. Ha, Ha Ha .... Ah, just one question before I go ... What have you ever done to advance the SOTA in record enjoyment besides writing this ? Now, I'll have another pill Doc... All the best & don't be too insulted , you already did that to me. |
Sonofijm : Thanks for understanding .
Here's a twist to this mach of ideas. My best friend, my mom , was agast at what transpired on the thread (me & them-Hello Herman). Mom's view was it isn't the attachments , it the Price. Unknown to me Mom purchased 2 other handheld steamers via TV; the "JJ-1000" (76.00 US) and a "Monster" SC135 ($40.00 US); Today, I demo'ed them . My impression for each, the attachments didn't reel in oder and secondly while I continue to prefer the "bloom" of the "Perfection" , I could live with either.And, the attachments seened benine. Mom's point of view was "money makes the difference".
Now for the important part. Today I was phoned by an old friend, Leo , who is a former chemist for Grace & Co. Leo, rarely reads the thread. But when he did, alarms rang in his chemist-mind. Leo said he was deeply concerned that the "smell" could be lead. Leo is an expert in manufacturing and said he is awaire of manuacturing methods in China that could exposs us to Lead contamination. Leo, urged me to "tear apart" the Perfection box looking for a lead acknowledgement that must by US Law be printed on the box- where is another matter. After examinating the interior & exterior , on the bottom this is what I found on tape embossed across the bottom : WARNING : This product contains chemicals, including lead known to the State of California to cause CANCER or other reproductive harm. WASH HANDS AFTER USING.
I ask each of you to look for a CHEMICAL//LEAD disclaimer on your Perfection box , please review the information .
Dispite the slurrs of some , I care about all of you. Here is scientific evidence my fears are justified. Sono, you stood with me in a dark hour, I deeply Thank You. Now I have to worry about deep breathing this poison to alert you ... Leo feels the exposure would be non-threadening if we wore gloves and cleaned up immediatly afterward. Either of the units Mom bought are OK with me, none had a CHEMIAL/LEAD warning. |
Johnnyb53 & Jsmoller : For a detailed discussion on water (including R/O) please see the Water-related threads below.
For my money I use H2O prepaired for use in batteries; pretty much the finest water product for the cost but availabity may be a problem for some. |
Thommas, Thank you for the kind words. For those that wish to make the investment of time and almost no money, it is sure interesting what steam can do to revive your record collection.
For instance, I have a 1950's Verve 2 LP recording of Ella & The Duke that I bought for .50 cents. The recordings were so dirty they were unplayable. After several minutes of steaming and combo'ing with my VPI, the LPs looked clean but still they were unplayable. After a third and fourth cleaning I set the LPs aside for a few days before a re-play. The differences were like night and day. These mono recordings had life breathed into them. I consider them to be one of my most satisfying finds. Oh, and the Jazz books recount a fair-market value of $100 for a .50 cent investment. |
Readers, I have been contacted by a engineer who has an extensive backround in commercial uses of steam. He has strongly recommended that only deionized , R/O water be used to steam & clean LPs.
Without getting into a long drawn-out explanation , this gentleman appears to have much to offer on steaming issues, so please consider his recommendation. |
Threaders :
I have a feeling that most of you are already into analog and have several record cleaning products/machines in your home. Some of you also own some-type of hand held steam cleaner and for those that don't take my suggestion : Purchase a Perfection Steam Cleaner($30.US) @ Walgreens either at the brick an' morter or via the internet.
In my opinion, the most significant difference between steamers (besides cost) is what I term "splatter and splurt". That why I suggest the Perfection because it leaves S&S out of the mix, although any steamer, ie the Shark will do the job, some more a tad more/less messy.But what the hay ...Its only water. As for water we have an excellent Water Thread and Grade 1 appears to be the way to go but other options exist some "better" than others.
A critical difference between my suggestions and Mapleshade has nothing to do about effectiveness, but safety. Mapleshade recommends placing water and a cleaner inside the heating tank. This is where we part company. I urge you not to put anything but water into the heating tank. Neither, Mapleshade nor I invented the hand held steam cleaner ;however, all the manufactures known to me list a CAUTION in the Operating Instructions, a term defined as "a potentially dangerious situation", recommending that NO cleaning agents be used inside of the steam cleaner. The choice is yours to make...choose wisely.
My point is ... Get steaming, use the record cleaning liquids you own , combo-up with exising analog stuff or machines , and reap the benefits.
Just for safety's sake hand-paint the record cleaning solution lightly on the LP , lightly scrub then steam and vaccum (should you have a RCM). Enjoy |
Secips : Good to know the results of your steaming efforts. Its amazing what life can return to vinyl thru steam cleaning. Have you ever pondered how many critical reviews for decks , tonearms & cartridges would have been different had the reviewer steam cleaned the LPs ? I know I have and I am regularly astonded by the steaming results even on new,clean vinyl. I use a VPI.16 to augment the cleaning process . In some cases the results are beyond expectations, simply breath-taking. Since I discovered steaming I always look in the cheap LP bins for that dirty "gem". I smile all the way home and to the bank.
As for the Hot shot's "S&S" it does appear to be a unit to unit thing. We all shall see if the SteamFast is "better" but for now I'm using the Perfection and maybe the Hot Shot 350A from time to time. Secips, thanks for the suggestion, I'll be more careful on the fil-line. |
Dan : Support like yours confirms what I suspect to be a fact; Steam Cleaning is equal to , if not superior to, Record Cleaning Machines (RCM) & dispeles the fable that collectors must expend huge sums on cleaning toys to enjoy music.
Steam Cleaning gives the LP collector options in the selection of record cleaning fluids and experience if fluid A is actually worth the effort over fluid B.
Should you already own a RCM ( as I) "Great", use its features to enhanse record cleaning. If not, no problem Steaming can do it all for you. |
Larryi, What steam units do is wisk/steam-off the manufacturing compounds/grit that traps organic and inorganic gunk in the grove; that gunk comes a host for bacteria and/or mold.
Steam harmlessly washes away all those compounds leaving just a reasonably clean grove to reproduce sound. An added plus may be some hydration of the uppermost ridges of the grove that takes some of the reported brittleness in sound away from that LP in playback.
It is for the above reasons I allow my cleaned recordings to rest before I play them. The cleaner you water source the more improvement you may hear.
According to scientific studies discussed in "Positive Feedback" years ago relating to record cleaning , momentary uses of strong chemical cleaners do not leach LPs unless submerged on the groves for very long periods of time.
That is not the case with steam that is comprised only of water and is used in seconds at a time. Steam cleaning (with the addition of using RCM's and fluids) enhanses the cleaning process because it deep cleans the grove and vacumms off spent fluid before a final light steam to remove everything left in the grove. |
Todd, The most probable cause : The water used for steaming.
The reason appears related to the heating tank coming in contact with poorly distilled water or tap water ;the water boils, minerals deposit on the inside walls of the heating tank that re-deposit onto whatever one steams in the form of a white power. Some manuals for hand held steam cleaners recommend a 50-50 blend of warm white vinegar and distilled water poured into the unpluged unit to help remove the deposits overnight. However, that hasn't worked for me.
Whenever a steamer deposits stuff or begins "spitting", its easier (for me) to buy a new one. It does seem the older the unit the greater the probabilty ,unless, one has always used super pure or greater water products. The maxium , the cleaner the water product the less likely the steamer will shower your work with unacceptable mineral deposits.
From emails I've received the issue is not wide-spread and for unexplaned reasons can occur (very rare) right out of the box. I know of two instances that were replaced by the seller without problems.
The good news is that a good brush /or de-static brush will remove the white powery stuff , as will a soft, mildly damp micro cloth.
My last suggestion is that heavly molded LPs from years in basements can have shreds of mold left behind, but from your description I think H2O is the culprit. |
Stltrains : What makes this thread "work" is that steam cleaning works and is a significant stand alone or adjunct to popular record cleaning methods.
According to my email most everyone hears improvements over conventional RCMs. Combo'ing Steam and RCMs is supported by most everybody that's tried it. I have a alot of email from those that use steaming solo and are estatic with the results.
The big Q's (for me) is whether newer/improved record cleaning fluids will make a difference , whether better perhaps safer more specialized steamers are possible/needed and whether specialized bacteria designed to consume contaminates on LPs is commercially plausible ,or are enzymes the way to go. Time will tell.
Oh & how I would like a respected University with a diverse resource base perform scientific studies / research to determine the most cost effective way to safely clean recordings. Johns Hopkins perhaps ??
The market place its hard to make that kind of assessment when so much money is at stake. Business (like life) is rarely rational ; its driven by profit and market share so lots of good intentions get swept aside for the $ or $$$$$. Kinda eat or be eaten. Not too much room for science in that lunchroom.
To be reflective , remember how this thread began ,in part questioning, do I the audio consumer need to buy a $150 "outfit" or is there an alternative ? As we all now know any of us willing to make the effort can "outfit" ourselves for far less , including the same exact steaming unit. Nothing wrong with spending the $150 but you can do it for less. I think we are evolving to the real grit of the matter looking for a little record cleaning grail here and there. So, lets find it if we haven't already. |
Something to Consider: According to emails from "Analog Fanatics" , as they upgraded analog playback front ends into the maga-buck world , not only did they hear more from the LPs , but a new character (we shall label dust/grit) created a sonic signature to compete with the music. They said conventional RCMs did little to change the situation until ever so reluctantly a few started to steam clean LPs. Now, some of those AF'ers swear that without the gunk tamer (steam) the upgrades could have been a waste of $. Go figure. |
FYI: Today I received a flyer from Walgreens indicating they are offering a $10 rebate for the Perfection hand held steam cleaner; thats $ 19.00 not bad.
On TV I did notice a hand steamer "The Monster 1200" that currently sells for $67.00 and claims to have a separate chamber for liquids that can be spritzed into the steam chamber moments before release with a head of steam. I don't know a thang other than the info commerical; the web site is only a replay of the commerical sans any details or specs. Should anybody know more please relate. |
D: It seems Steam Cleaning removed the most objectionable pops and ticks. You mentioned ,these LPs are "Garage" finds nothing wrong with that, but underlying previous owner abuse or pressing noises can be revealed by a good cleaning. Sometimes we luck out and other times we don't with trash-bin finds. I do it all the time.
Also, you mentioned "soap" and I don't recommend "soap" due to the fact it can cling to the grove sides like cement. Generic Record Fluids, to home-brew, to any of the Hi-Fi Cleaning Fluids great , but I never had any sucess with "soap".
This thread has revealed some record fluids such as "Last and Sound Guard" ,to mention a few, do appear to have ageing problems that contribute to objectionable noise. When we buy second-hand you never know what to expect.
Personally, I have not heard a "wisk" sound but on some finds I have heard a "cutting-head" or "scraping noise" . For me I just return them to Goodwill in the form of a donation for that other person who may be satisified. |
Readers: Throughout this thread the question of water sources has come up and gone bye. The water or its relative purity has been discussed here and on other threads. On several occasions I have discussed the relative value of water products with manufactures of audio and other products that depend on excellent water sources. What I have learned is really quite simple, use the "cleanest" source until a better one can be found , and be prepaired to spend 20 times + the price of Peak Water should you decide upon Lab or Rx water sources. Many posts detail the value of hi-purity water and that should not be de-valued in any discussion. But, use what you have , avoid "tap water" due to fouling properities present(minerals, etc.). In the next several days I intend to speak to a Peak rep and will post a re-cap of that conversation. |
Volleyguy, I am under the impression that you haven't read every post prior to you use of Steam Cleaning. As the person that "invented" the process, please use record cleaning fluids and should you own a RCM use it. Of course, some can get away without a complete understanding of the process, but problems can appear that would not be so complicated with a tad more reading. |
FYI: Walgreens has reduced the price of a Perfection Steamer to $19.00 US until 6/23. I believe the price is the same in its stores & the internet. |
Dan_ed : I think you bring a lot to the discussion. The only concern is in regards to putting anything other than H2O in the heating tank. I am not challenging your assertions; it just that All pressured heating tanks can explode something I want to avoid at all costs. I believe Maple uses a "dry" vinegar to mix in the tank of the SF-227. Do as you feel is safe : Please review your directions to avoid problems. All the best. |
Readers: I always strip the unit devoid of all attachments. The steam path is shorter, hence "hoter" steam. I manulipate the LP with a gloved hand or steam directly on the VPI.
Devoid of all attachments the steam head is "softer" but nonetheless quite strong. The Steamfast SF-227 is designed for very strong "lazer" blast of steam that I reserve for problem LPs, the dirty dozen kind. No one can predict what chemicals in plastic-sizers will do in the future. Yes, I certianly have used the cone but only following a bath in detergents to remove as much as possible the mold release compounds w/ rinses and a wipe down inside and out. I want to lift the grunge for lite scrubbing and reserve blasting for real problems. Vinyl is elastic and responds to heat/water by "swelling" for moments and returning to its initial shape. Uniformity, may mean less swelling so I attempt to steam the surface evenly. |
I have steam cleaned thousands of LPs and I don't feel that I yet understand "everything" regarding steam cleaning. Yes, I believe I possess a understanding of the process and I feel I should contribute that knowledge to the discussion. Steam cleaning a dozen recordings is a good thing but doesn't qualify for the gold. Learning to steam clean and living the life are two worlds. This is only to suggest caution in one's judgements that I as a decade + person in steam cleaning refrain from. But I will stand on these ideas : Do I believe that this method is revolutionary ? Yes, I do. And have I found any other lo-cost method that excells beyond the performace of steam ? Not yet but I'm always looking. Also, I am awaire of the growing numbers of folks that no longer feel a need to purchase RCM's.
What I have observed is that so many vary from the suggested guidelines now buried in this thread one can never be certian of repeatable results. The important reminders are keep to the least number of attachments, use purified & demineralized water as can be purchased and steam, scrub(w/record cleaning fluids) , steam and re-steam to remove any cleaning fluids left behind. Then dry. Should you have a RCM - USE IT, and don't forget to dry the LPs.As long as you do a final steam what cleaning fluid you choose is not as big a deal as if you use one or just steam.
After 4+ decades as a Audio-Head I suggest: Be careful how you spend your money. There are so many that want your $$$ and you can do better without many of them. Remember, there is no one looking over their shoulders ... All the best. |
Readers: I can only remark again that in years of steam cleaning I personally have never destroyed any vinyl that I steam cleaned. I have stressed the vinyl every way possible without any negative consequences. The only exception was an experiment using a steam iron a emailer professed was far superior to using a hand held steam cleaning unit. Yes, he suckered me in and I deserved the consequence, a melted vinyl LP. The whole experience taught me , be careful from whom you accept advice , some ain't worth the price of s---. It is for this reason and many others I stress the K.I.S.S. method ( Keep It Simple Stupid ) .
Repeatable results require repeatable steps. I wish I could repeat a steam cleaning that destroyed a vinyl LP but as of today I have never been able to do so except with a steam iron. And friends never forget that in the world of business there are those that want to destroy any idea they don't control all for the sake of money. In the film "Iron Man" Jeff Bridges torments the hero " Just because you invented it doesn't mean you have a right to keep it". |
Tvad : Patients & trademarks are made to be broken by persons without honor that abound in a society where ideas are subject to theft by everyone including the Government. Keeping what you have is one matter , giving away and idea or two ? Just lean back and see the harlotts come out of the woodwork. For the past several years I had been researching a certian turntable with a view to writing a history of its development. Imagine my surprise when I understood the widespread intellectual theft behind the product. It just left me cold to going forward. To some degree every person I spoke to had been hurt by the heartless behavor of others intent on making money from the core ideas . Very enlighting ... |
Putting rats ass's aside , I wish to reframe the question, perhaps for the better so we can all agree.
The concern is not with cones , hoses or any other useful attachment that could better promote a more productive method to deep steam clean records. The concern is focused on the chemicals used to manufacture those potentally helpful attachments. And, that leads to a recommendation we advoid those attachments until we know with some scientific certianity those chemicals we all agree we can smell ,or touch, are harmless to our records and ourselves.
This view similar to a child's toys, we do not wish to ban the toys but the compounds that are we feel are a danger to the child. Since our LPs have no lobby in Congress it is up to us to regulate the matter for ourselves.
Closely, alined to the chemical concerns are safety issues , as well as ,recommendations that are well intended but may have unintended consequences.
For instance, most if not all of the consumer handheld steaming units come from China. That fact alone should give us pause in light of its track record on contamination to reconsider our positions.
Put aside the small stuff , lets look at the big picture : Can we remove those chemicals with household cleaners ,dishwashers or not ?
And secondly, why trust those that fail to have the welfare of ourselves and our families in mind ? Audio aside, the "anything goes" crowd is a danger, particularly when they try to get their hands in your money pocket.
Can we all agree on the above as a starting point to resolve the stated concern(s) ? Thank you for reading and good night. |
T: I certianly agree that a video is a good way to express steaming & I shall do one when my I.T. friends have the time & equipment to assist.
Readers: From the "paranoia" response I see that there is no concensus regarding leaching chemicals. I agree that maybe over-the-top for folks whom I suspect have limited collections (500 LPs or so), having little or no interest beyond the moment. But what about folks like me with 5,000 + LPs or friends that own 15,000 or more of the rarest LPs in the world. How about them? I have several friends (including me) that pay for music advisors to search the world for only the most significant recordings. The cost ranges $35 to $120 per LP to $1,100 per set US for certian recordings. Gosh, for the insidental collector paying 25 cents to a dollar per LP, frankly I would drop the thread & do what you please. But for the record collectors that oun & pay the big bucks for recordings, paying out $100,000 or more on playback equipment they express strongly to me any reservation on chemicals.
I would also suggest that if your Turntable performace is in the Mid-fi land , forget the thread and do what you want. Who cares with the exception of the fact that steaming with or without attachments is going to make a big impact on the listening experience. For the insidental record owner with a couple hundred , I understand your view. But, please understand that institutional collectors around the world have more of a stake in this because of the numbers game (100,000 + LPs).
Forgive me, but I have noticed a real gulf of opinion between Europeans who are "Green-Green" and State-Siders who are oh hum on chemical issues. I understand that I hope some posters understand they are on the oh hum side of the conversation.
I only hope that those of us that want to push the SOTA forward as far as steam cleaning regardless of numbers of LPs appreciates steaming is not for everyone, as is record care generally.
OK, for the small minority left my question remains " How do we get the chemicals removed/lowered in profile from Chinese made steaming units ?" Or do you throw caution to the wind become Oh Hum and steam w/o regard of the longer-term consequences ? Now that's the $64,000 question, pun intended. All the best. |
