Counterpoint SA-3.1 and 5.1

Yeah, his mods for the 3.1 can cost up to $2K. Add that to the $375.00 that you can pick one up for, and you have a nice $375.00 Counterpoint pre-amp.

You speak some truth, Sgrove. To a certain extent I agree with you. Will dumping $2k into a $375 pre-amp be worth it? I say it depends on what you are after. Do you want a nice $375 Counterpoint pre-amp that sounds like $2375? Or, do you want a $2375 pre-amp that looks, resells, and possibly sounds as good? It's a tough call because it is argued (by Mike Elliott and others here) that $2k in upgrades often makes a bigger sonic improvement than $2k extra in retail value would bring. And therein lies the rub: are you after sound primarily, or are other factors vying for premiere honors on your short list?

Hi,

As the guy that designed the Counterpoint preamps and who is presently doing the upgrades, I'd like to add my two cent's worth. Being a high-end manufacturer of electronics is a real eye-opener. The pricing structure of designing for the retail high-end audio market makes it real hard for the designer to put as much into a product as he'd like. Considering that half your retail dollar goes to the retailer, and only 1/3rd of the leftover money goes into the parts that the component is built with, and of THAT, more than 1/2 of the parts budget goes into cosmetic and structural items like knobs, front panels, chassis, and feet, not to mention packing material and owner's manuals and the like, a designer can pretty much count on being able to spend about eight cents on electronic parts -- the parts that actually do the work -- for every dollar of retail pricing. So a preamp retailing for $2,375 has about $195 worth of parts in it. Take away the cost of the printed circuit board and the transformer . . . how many $100 capacitors, $4 resistors and other premium parts are you going to find in that preamp when you take off the top cover?

For a designer, that's very frustrating. As an upgrader, though, who doesn not sell through retailers, who doesn't have an expensive factory to pay for, no shows to pay for, little or no advertising to pay for, and no overseas promotional tours to pay for . . . I have a very different pricing structure, one that greatly benefits the audiophile: $2,000 spent on upgrades results in close to a thousand dollars of premium parts (labor costs, too). Now, in my opinion, a $375 preamp with over $1,000 worth of premium parts is NOT just a $375 preamp. It's a component that will handily outperform any preamp that retails for $2,375.

On the other hand, if it is the outside, or the brand name, or the relative newness of the preamp that matters, my opinion doesn't really count -- that "new car" smell is something I can't put into an upgrade. But if sound quality is paramount, I believe that money spent on upgrades is money very well-spent indeed.

Mike Elliott
www.altavistaaudio.com

So the up-grades consist of parts swapping only?

I have owned at least nine pieces of gear designed and built by Mike Elliott, and as I have posted in other topics here at Audiogon, they are among the best the industry has to offer. All audio equipment has a sonic signature. Assuming you are pleased by the basic design and sound of a piece of gear, it makes perfect sense to upgrade via the designer. As Mike says, there is a direct return in quality of parts, and an opportunity for the originator of the design to tweak any area he wishes to improve. Not only is the price of parts no longer an obstacle in this scenario, there are choices today that were not available at the time the original was assembled. It could be years before the "trickle down" technology of these newer parts find their way into regular production line gear. Considering there are several $10,000. preamps available, the $2,375. price sounds very reasonable to me. Of course everyone must decide what will make them happy.