Considering analog...but nervous

All these naysayers to vinyl. The fad guy it is like breeding labordoodles do not even have a clue. When I put on a vinyl record my system has a sound that is purely awesome. My digital front end sound very very good but not even close to the awesome sound of my turntable. I was surprised the other day when I went over to friend's house who has a $25k digital front end, how good it sounded. Then we put on a record on his newly downsized turntable rig the Clearaudio Concept and matching cartridge and at $2000.00, it blew the $25K digital rig in the dirt. He had alot of regret selling his original higher end turntable and putting the money into upgrading his digital part of his system. Granted Vinyl is more work but is also more fun. I think digital will get better and it might get close to Analog but that is a way off.

I wrote a post last night in response to your thread, but accidentally closed the tab with the response - I'll try again, because you pose good questions that many new audiophiles have:

"1. One of the biggest things that has kept me from trying Vinyl thus far is the concern of excessive hiss and crackle/pop that vinyl is known for. Is it safe to assume that purchasing new Vinyl and played on a higher quality setup will reduce (eliminate?) the pops and crackle sounds? I have no problem purchasing exclusively new vinyl, knowing full well that the process of shopping used is what draws so many to this market..."

Ticks, pops and hiss are not an issue if certain precautions are taken. First, and to directly respond to your question, new vinyl is unfortunately not always free from ticks and pops, and if you search the threads, you'll find many people complaining of noise with brand-new, $50 LP's from all of the major reissue labels. That said, most new vinyl is fine and many are completely noise-free. As for used LP’s, it is pretty easy to determine which used vendors accurately rate the condition of LP’s they sell, and that will eliminate most regretful purchases – I tend to prefer older LP’s, as many are fantastic and really cheap.

When you receive a new or used LP (and this will address another question you asked), it has to be cleaned with a vacuum record cleaner, in the case of new LP’s, in order to remove the mold release agent used to prevent the LP from sticking to the matrix when it is minted (mold release functions like Pam), and in the case of used LP’s, to remove whatever dirt the LP accumulated up until the time you received it. Next, careful, professional set-up is crucial to minimizing noise, particularly with some of the more modern styli types (e.g., line-contact). If you clean the record and your rig is set up properly (and in the case of used LP’s, you have purchased from a reliable vendor), noise will not be an issue with most LP's. There will always be dud LP's that are simply inherently noisy, either because of a lousy pressing or because of improper care by prior owners, but the percentage of duds is about like the percentage of dud CD's that feature compressed dynamics, and glassy, unlistenable highs, among other problems. Another point about LP’s and noise - it is somewhat music genre-specific. Noise is almost never an issue with rock, pop and blues albums because of the quantity of musical information in the grooves - you can't hear it once the band starts, even with dirty records. On the other hand, noise can be a real issue with solo acoustic instruments like solo piano and accapella voice. Finally, modern belt-drive turntables (and the small handful of today’s very high-end direct-drive tables) have much lower noise levels than the tables most people used during the analog era. In summary, if you have a modern table that has been carefully set up and you have properly cleaned the LP, noise is not the issue – just as with CD’s, the quality of the recording, not the medium (whether LP or CD), becomes the issue.

“2. If I purchase new vinyl, only play it on a decent player, and store it properly, will I still have to clean it? How expensive is a cleaning machine? Are there (reasonable), less expensive alternatives to a cleaning machine?”

New and used vinyl must be cleaned with a vacuum cleaner as described above. The entry-level VPI vacuum cleaner, which is a good unit, now lists for $650 and you should be able to get a new one for at least 10% off the list price – they occasionally appear on the used market. You should buy new record sleeves for any used LP’s that you buy. Once you vacuum clean a record, it will generally not need to be vacuum-cleaned again for many playings (I might clean mine once every 25 plays), assuming you only grasp it by its edges and immediately return it to its sleeve and jacket when you’re done playing it. However, before I play any side, I place a Hunt EDA carbon-fiber brush ($30) at a 45-degree angle to the side for two or three revolutions to pick up any large dust particles. I do the same after I have played the side. This is all the cleaning that is necessary. To summarize, new and used records just acquired must be cleaned with a vacuum cleaner – there are no alternatives if you are running a good analog rig in a high-resolution system – and thereafter can be maintained as described above.

“3. Based on my integrated (tube-pre, SS amp) and speakers, are these a good match for Vinyl? Does anyone know if the KW 500 Phono input is adequate for a good turntable? My digital system has a tendency to be on the bright side for a lot of material, but not everything. Strangly, even at 31 years old, I can still hear up to around 19Khz so I'm a bit picky about the highs...”

Your system is not a “good match” for vinyl – based upon what you have written about your hearing, the brightness in your system, and your statement that “I am all about soundstage and imaging”, vinyl is a NECESSITY for you. First, regarding the quality of the on-board phono stage in your integrated amp, I do not have first-hand knowledge, but I do know that the more expensive Musical Fidelity gear is high-end gear – the phono stage should be fine (a good stand-alone unit with proper interconnect to your integrated would be better, but you’re probably fine). A properly set-up vinyl rig will generally layer space and image much better than a digital rig – it is one of vinyl’s strong suits. That said, if you primarily listen to multitrack-recorded pop / rock / blues recordings, you will be largely wasting what vinyl can do because the staging and instrument placement is destroyed by the miking techniques and multitracking. On the other hand, well recorded classical music or acoustic jazz on a decent pressing, and again assuming proper set-up, will have you jumping from your seat and screaming “Wow!” One of the two big problems with typical digital is what it does to the highs – it is glassy and unnatural – and this will be exacerbated by your Focal speakers, which use high-quality Beryllium tweeters. I listen to mostly orchestral music, and digital is seriously flawed with orchestral because of the high-frequency harmonics coming from string sections – listen to a violin through an analog rig, even a really cheap one, and then listen on a $10k digital rig – vinyl sounds like a violin and digital sounds wrong and unpleasant. One caveat, however – the resonances occurring in many expensive moving-coil cartridges cause a rising (i.e., excessive) response in the high frequencies that can make a system somewhat bright if not addressed (... there are ways). At your price range, however, you will likely end up with a moving-magnet cartridge that will generally not have such a problem. In summary, an audiophile who cares about high-frequency performance, unless he/she has the money to purchase a top, top digital rig, needs analog.

“4. How complicated is the setup of the TT? Being that I've never worked with it before, I'm somewhat intimidated by the "setup" requirements of the equipment. What are the core requirements/knowledge to properly setup a TT.”

Quite complicated - getting the most out of an analog rig requires precise, professional set-up, and most people who think they know how to properly install a table, arm and cartridge do not know what they’re doing. The best course of action is to investigate in an attempt to find the very best set-up person in your geographic area. That said, given your budget and the types of music you listen to, you are a good candidate for a Rega table with Rega cartridge. The cartridge is pre-installed and all set-up parameters automatically addressed due to the fact the cartridge is made for that particular table and arm – you just need to place the table on a proper stand and make very certain that the table is precisely leveled. Rega’s quality is good, especially the arm, and they are particularly good for rock and pop because the cartridge is high output and a very good tracker, but it will not perform like a better table and arm, with a good moving-coil cartridge, assuming proper set up. In summary, a decent analog rig will smoke your digital rig with respect to staging and naturalness, particularly in the highs. I also prefer analog dynamics - good digital rigs have greater dynamic range than analog, but so many digital recordings are compressed that you can't use it - older LP's and properly mastered new LP's can have more satisfying dynamics. (NB: I should have noted from the outset that my comments about digital here are limited to PCM - full DSD playback has thunderous dynamics.)

“5. And finally, the most subjective question of all. If I had a budget of about $1,000-$1,500 for a TT, Tonearm and Cartridge, what would be a good starting place? I'd obviously be looking for used here from Agon.”

A Rega P-5 plus Rega Elys cartridge is probably $1,200 (the cheaper P-3 24 is also a good high-entry-level table), plus you need a vacuum cleaner, carbon-fiber brush, and appropriate stand for the table. If you could go up to $3k, you can get a high-end used table, excellent arm, and good moving-coil cartridge that would play in a much higher league.

Hope this helps.

You don't NEED a vacuum cleaner. I've lived without one for 40 years and my record collection (5000 LPs) still sound great and crackle free.

raquel,,, you scared everybody!!!! ha. nice letter and i agree. very nice to read an expert opinion. what do you think of the sub 100 dollar record cleaner all the magazines are recommending? i don,t remember the name but it is bright yellow.

Go spend some time with someone with a good vinyl set-up and really observe what it is all about from both a logistical and enjoyment perspective. If it floats your boat and you can make the commitment then strap-in and get ready. I don't believe your initial budget is high enough to realize a better and high level of performance when you include cleaning systems, good TT, cart, phono (not sure how decent the MF is). I think $5K would get you a pretty good vinyl playback system if you were careful. Then you would be in heaven.

I LOVE having a vinyl set-up and it now is probably 95% of all the listening I do. If I couldn't have vinyl, I probably wouldn't bother with a system at all. It does not seem like a pain to me, it is just part of the routine of listening to music at this point. I recently had my phono out for upgrade and never listened to my system until I got it back.