Congested sound, new speakers?


Hello out there,

I hope I can use your collective insight, wisdom, and experience to help me out. I am currently running a system comprised of a modified Pioneer DV-525 running into a Z-Systems RDP-1 digital preamp/EQ, then into a Camelot Uther V2 MkIII DAC, directly into a Bel Canto EVO 200.2, powering Thiel CS1.5 speakers, all strung together with DH Labs wire (D-110 digital, BL-1 II balanced interconnects, and Q-10 speaker wire).

My tastes in music have changed over time and I find myself listening less to modestly dynamic, all acoustic music (folk, jazz, solo classical) and more to music with electric instrumentation (fusion, jambands, progressive rock)with sustained high dynamics. While very good with the acoustic material, my system sounds a bit congested and confused with the more complex material. I suspect that it is the small Thiels, but I would like your opinion on different speaker options, considering my shift in listening material. I haven't been speaker shopping for awhile and work has kept me too busy to read much of the audio journals. What do you think? New speakers worth investigating? I am sure I could use some proper room treatment as well, but that is an area that I am not particularly familiar with. Any and all suggestions and advice would be appreciated; I just need to get a handle on some reasonable options! Thanks in advance. . .
stereojen
I think that you may have nailed the problem by singling out the Theils. Although, Theils' products are very well designed from a time/phase perspective, all of those elements he uses in the crossover may contribute to that "confused" sound. (This is because your amplifier cannot properly "lock in" the speakers'drivers, through its ouput devices' dampening factor capability). Ironically Thiel is not the only audiophile company that uses very complex crossovers with a gizilion caps etc. But guess what?....those other speakers have also been characterized as sometimes congested and confused. After analyzing your system list, I feel that your speakers are NOT in the same league as your other components. In my opinion, you should upgrade this part of your system, to fully realize its music making potential.
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Give Chris at Legacy Audio a call. They make a number of differrent speakers as well as electronic equipment. I looked around and asked questions for 2 1/2 years before finding Legacy, I would not buy a speaker from any one else. Hope this helps.

P.S. the number is 1-800-283-4644, tell Chris wcwhisper sent you.
stereojon, i woodn't do *anything* w/yer current set-up until ya move. *none* of the negative comments about your thiels are true, imho, except chstob's comment that they can fall apart when pushed. but, this is cuz they want *lotsa* power, something that yer bel-canto prolly has.

*but*, there *is* one ting that thiels *cannot* do well that hasn't been mentioned: they make wery poor nearfield speakers. this is due to their 1st-order 6db/octave x-overs, & their relatively large (vertically) front baffles. thiels need lotsa room around them, & ewe should be *at least* 10' away from them for the sound to properly integrate at the listening position. then they will sing, w/acoustic, electronic, or any other music ewe throw at 'em.

bottom line - wait 'til yure in yer gnu listening space, where they can be properly set-up, before ya make any system changes. your gnu space should work fine, w/the possible caveat that, at 12' wide, i'd recommend sound absorption treatment at the 1st-reflection point at the side walls. if ewe can treat the ceiling's 1st-reflection point, this wood also be helpful...

regards, doug s.

Very good point about near-field listening with Thiels Sedond. Right on. But I don't find the mids of the Thiel 1.5 to be very open, which is what makes them better for electronic than acoustic music in my opinion.