Classical Music for Aficionados

@schubert       Hi Len yes my house is OK but storm is not oer yet so I won't count my Chickens. I too have watched planes landing at Prestwick in high winds and can't help but admire the pluck of those pilots.

I have to think back on a concert many moons ago when Tortellier played this at my local town hall . A wonderful rendition.

Oh Glorious John. !!!

Yes Jeremy you are missing one that I really like , Nikolay Demidenko .
It is on the Hyperion Label in an arrangement by Busoni.

@rvpiano       I couldn't agree more RV as I like my particular composers too, but there was a time when I would not listen to the likes of Stravinsky and Prokofiev . Over the course of 40 years though I have come to like a lot of their output and like you I still cannot listen to the Second Viennese School.  My allegence to Bach is still per eminent though and I don't think that shall ever change.

I don't know if this recording is availlable any longer but I have a boxed set of Ravel's complete works by, Louis Lortie and I used to love it but like all daft audiophiles I still bought other people playing it. Last night I played some ofit from my hard driveand although some play it with a little more magic I still recommend it if you want a cheaper complete set.

@schubert     Len, have you heard Olaffson's new recording of  Debussy and Rameau ?   It's a cracker, he has one of the most perfect techniques I have heard and he honed it immersed in Bach and I would love to hear him play the Goldberg's I bet he could give a visionary performance.

This is probably musical heresy but I much prefer Scarlatti played on the piano.

@jcazador    Jeremy I have just noticed your post about Fleisher.
                      My sympathies he was a first rate pianist who overcame a mountain of injuries. I will never forget a Ravel Concerto for the left hand on Radio 3 and it must have been in the 70's but I can still remember the elation I felt after it , Awesome !!

@schubert     Yes Len the Jocks and the Micks were always the first into battle while the Sassenach generals sat in the
french chateau's drinking the cellar dry.

When I read of the past greats not practicing all I can think of is what a lot of missed opportunities to be even greater than what they were because of lack of practice. Milstein was an inveterate practicer who always said I owe it to my public to be at the top of my game because the people in the cheap seats have paid a lot of money ( to them ) to come and hear me. Heifetz was exactly the same , he also practiced a lot , even as an old man. When Segovia said the immortal words that John Williams was touched by the hand of God , Williams said he may have said that but he also told me to practice as if there was no time left in the world.

@mahgister Seasons Greetings to you and your’s and I hope you have a very lovely Christmas.

Best wishes, Jim.

@rvpiano O great leader , this has been a most enjoyable thread and I hope it goes on for a long time and we all learn from our most revered pastime to enrich our lives with more new and enjoyable music. A most enjoyable Christmas to you and to every one of us contributing to this truly enjoyable thread.

Take care everyone. Jim.

@schubert  Len I hope this finds you well and in good spirits and our shared musical God is looking over you. Bless you and have a lovely Christmas.

Jim.

@twoleftears     I certainly agree with you but I would also say that Arrau's 
piano tone was second to none and you always left a concert saying to yourself that whatever he played in the concert couldn't be replicated by anyone. It is just a pity that his early recordings are marred by the recording pitfalls of the time. His recordings from the forties and fifties are technically unbeatable and every bit as good as Horowitz.
A funny story - he was in attendance at the Berlin debut of Horowitz in the twenties . His mother who was with him and had nothing but insults for every other pianist she heard sat watching Horowitz dead silent. At the end of the concert Arrau was expecting a tirade from his mother , she looked round at her son and said you had better go home and practice because at the moment he plays better than you. I think he caught up with Horowitz though.

Yes Jeremy, Halcyon day's indeed.

Gabetta is a first class cellist if a little wayward, I heard her in a Proms about 3 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed her so I’m looking forward to tomorrow.

@rvpiano         Totally agree with you RV , when I was listening to The Chopin concertos the only thing on my mind was how I would love to hear Pletnev himself doing those arrangements. I have heard Pletnev live a number of times and two things he can really play are Chopin and Rachmaninov , in my opinion he is as good as anyone on the circuit these days. I have been listening to him since the early eighties and can say that in the early days he was quite an explosive pianist himself as evidenced from his Edinburgh Festival recitals at the Queen's Hall.
I am sure Triifonov will grow into his fingers as they say. Maturity only comes with age.

 @twoleftears     I have been listening to Alice Sara Ott playing Liszt's Transcendental Studies and have been impressed by her maturity and deftness. These pieces have been much maligned over the last century but only because of players who just don't have the technique to convey the pieces properly ( I know because I have been at recitals which have been cringe worthy. It is no wonder Liszt got such slights thrown at him, as Schumann once said after a performance by Liszt that these pieces were written for maybe four or five pianists in the whole world. As Alfred Brendel once said If you don't like Liszt's music then blame the pianist and that sentiment still applies today. My personal favourite recorded performance is by Arrau who makes each piece a masterpiece in itself . His playing is lithe, masterful and his tone is golden and orgiastic at times . The very surprising thing about them is he was 75 when he recorded them. At times you would think he was 35.

I have the Scarlatti collection of Ross's and very rewarding it is although many of the individual sonatas may be played with more panache by other soloists the collection as a whole is a great recording achievement.

I will add that to my must listen list !!

RV   I'm very sorry and I am upset that I have to disagree with you but I did not like Lang Lang's Goldbergs at all. I found that the opening aria was so slow it was like a dirge. That said though I have to agree that some of the variations were very good on the ear but I'm afraid the aria is the acid test for me and if too fast or too slow the rest of the piece suffers to me. The Goldbergs to me are so great that it takes a very brave musician to tackle them and it doesn't matter to me as you go further in that if you blow it at the start the piece remains lost. I do very much like Lang Lang in some pieces by Schumann and his favourite Liszt but I don't think you would like to hear them. He certainly has the fingers for Liszt.

RV   you stated the beauty of the music influenced your reaction and I can totally agree with you there. Lang Lang did really project that in his playing but he made a lot of the movements sound like Chopin Preludes which a lot of people may be happy with but to me way too much pedal on them.


jcazador    Jeremy I have perused your list and there are some stellar names there of which most people would be delighted with and I have fitted that category most of the time also. I currently have two favourites which are poles apart so that lets you know that most interpretations have playing in them that are most enjoyable . My current two are not even on your list that shows just how diverse they are. My first is Andras Schiff 1983 version because you can tell how much he loves playing them and therefor he says goodbye on the aria repeat with a smile . I shall never tire of them and by the way I think technically this version beats the known versions by everyone else.
My next recording is by Ekaterina Dershavina and she gives us a quite literal interpretation  but she has you glued to your seat and you keep saying to yourself "I have never heard this or that detail before" Hers is a voyage of discovery which I love going on regularly.
 Guys have a lovely weekend. Jim.

@jcazador     Hi Jeremy I had enough of the Rolling Stones the first time they hit the charts, an awful racket . I get you about Hewitt she has a very large following and I do listen to her sometimes. The Goldbergs are great enough for many many interpretations and I now have so many of them I could open up a record shop and make a tidy profit. Thank goodness my music is on hard drives now instead of discs as I was starting to worry in case my floor would subside. 

@Schubert        Len right you are about the Shotts boys they had a great pipe band. I used to play in Ayr Pipe band when I was young and Shotts used to win all the trophies in the sixties under the rule of Pipe Major John K McCalister and Drum Major Alex Duthart and they were unbeatable at all the major highland games especially The Cowal Gathering. Then also Duthart's boys regularly used to take the prize for the drum corps home also. Now sadly a lot of those great pipe bands are no longer playing together because they were mostly miners and we know what Thatcher did to mining in the Eighties and we now have no colliery bands and deep coal mines in Scotland now. I know I shouldn't admit to this but I let out a wry smile when in the news they were filming Thatcher's funeral procession going down the Mall in London and there was a deputation of ex miners with a placard that read "ding dong the witch is dead" . Really good that one so don't ever mention Margaret Thatcher in Scotland or you could stand a chance of getting lynched. She is despised up here.

@rvpiano      Yes RV he was not bad in the composing dept.

I am listening at the moment to a series of the Keyboard Partitas by Bach and played on Harpsicord by Trevor Pinnock and most enjoyable they are and he is throwing all kinds of things in like lute stops full double keyboard and single keyboard to add some diversity in the mix. Most recommended.

Good point RV

@jcazador     Johnathan I have just downloaded the hi-rez file of Hamelin's new recording , stupendous jaw dropping playing. If Hamelin's playing is anything to go by then Liszt and Thalberg must also have been as great as what has been written about them.
Great stuff indeed.

I also do not want to have politics coming between me and my music and if push comes to shove I would say that The Ring Cycle to me was the greatest operatic endeavour of the 19th century. He was still a stinker of a man.  

I have to say this is my favourite recording of the Transcendentals and Arrau was 75 at the time of recording which is pretty incredible  seeing as the incredible difficulties involved . If you have ever been to a recital by Arrau pretty much the first thing you would hear in his piano tone was that incredible midrange which was rich and full. Most recordings of his actually do him a disservice in that a lot of that rich and glorious depth is diminished somehow. His last Phillips recordings do redress this with his latter digital recordings much more faithful in tone. A wonderful recording which hopefully would sway people from saying they hate Liszt without hearing Arrau ever playing him.

I have just finished listening to Barenboim playing the Diabelli Variations and must say I have on the whole enjoyed it. How he can keep this kind of work at his age and especially live at that is incredible. After a shaky start he then bowls headlong into them and on the whole I think it is a great achievement. If I had to pick anyone who he resembles playing them it has to be a lot of Arrau and a little of Kovacevitch. Not that he copies them though but more resembles, in his youth he revered Arrau and and Arrau liked him and his playing . His interpretation is quite slowish but not drastically so, he just lets the music breathe so to speak .
In the faster variations he dives straight in and takes no prisoners and the great thing about late Beethoven is that the music doesn't sound too clean as per Beethoven's instructions to Schindler. Arrau was a great proponent of the musical slurs in Beethoven's late works which he also suggested to his pupils and I'm quite sure Barenboim also as his playing does resemble Arrau a lot.
Anyway if you give it a spin so to speak it is on Qobus at the moment and I'm quite sure the others will have it also . The recorded quality is superb also so that should be a bonus.

@rvpiano          I totally agree RV about the two of them especially Barenboim I just don't know where he gets the time or energy for all the things he is involved with. The two of them have gone into now their late seventies with their techniques intact, in fact I would put Argerich as possibly in the top three pianists before the public today. Her Schumann is mercurial and so quirky that it is totally unique to her. I have enjoyed her playing for as long as I can remember. I still remember her EMI releases from the sixties and although they were very expensive at the time I couldn't wait till I had enough money to go and catch another one of her Chopin releases. What do you think of her Mazurkas, to me they are superbly played with not a note out of place ( do remember Michaelangeli had a hand in forging her technical aparatus ) she is one of the greatest pianists ever. I always remember a passage in a book about Barenboim when he was dining with Arthur Rubinstein one afternoon. Afterwards they went out on to the veranda for a cigar. as they were enjoying their smoke the talk as always went to pianists. Martha's name came up and after a little while Rubinstein looked straight at Barenboim and said she was one of the  supreme pianists of the age but why did she have to play so fast. Barenboim looked him in the eye and said "because she can Arthur because she can" and with that they fell back to their cigars.

RV    I am in total accordance with you regarding Trifonov  , he really has a lot of musical growing to do. He reminds me of Michelangeli  and Pollini who were capable of playing anything but cold as ice. No for me he needs a couple of decades under his belt , alas too late for me I fear.

You are not wrong there RV as I also think he was a phenomenon of which sad to say I do not think we shall see the likes of again. He left us a whole treasury of works which are unique and in so many forms. I particularly love his Corelli Variations especially played by Mikhail Pletnev on Rachmaninov's own Steinway in his villa, a truly wonderful recording.
Other works of his I love are his piano pieces Op.23 and Op.32 and those two together give us a full 24 preludes in all the keys, and the variety is fascinating. When I have listened to him play his own works on recordings I think what a crying shame hearing this horribly diistorted and hissy sound when everyone now can listen to any modern pianist with superb digital sound. 

@jim5559 

I have found one Schubert disc in what may appear to be a set to come on the CPO label. String Quartets include Rosamunde and Death and the Maiden which are up to their consistently high standards. The dynamics are superb with a lovely rich and well layered sound. I would certainly recommend it. It's on Idagio at the moment. Let me know what you think if you find it.

@maghister  Re Barbosa, I have listened to his recordings of the Mazurkas and I really enjoyed them .His rubatos are beautiful and unhurried with a superb technique. I did know of him because he was a pupil of Arrau’s but sad to say I had never looked up any of his recordings so a big thank you for putting his name my way.

RV.   Have you tried Arrau in the Fantasy , I have never heard a more poetic Clara Theme than this the piano tone at times is Orgiastic , forgive me but it is the only way I can describe it. You sure do know that Robert loved his Clara.

Johnathan , I really do love Arrau in Schumann but the sound on some of the recordings are less than sensitive to his piano tone. The Etudes are wonderful other than the piano tone. It's a pity he was getting on a bit when digital recording technique's were just getting started because the Phillips recordings of him show a wondrous tone that a lot of his analogue recordings don't have and that is now why I am trying pianists in their prime with good technique and tone to match. Don't get me wrong though Arrau is still my all time favourite pianist , he could play anything. the most jaw dropping thing I ever heard from him was Islamey from 1928 I think, it was stupefying but the recording sucked. 

@rvpiano    I take your point RV about Pogorelich and his technique when young he had a superb technique as witnessed by his Scarlatti Sonatas . They were fabulous tests for him and he left them withered and burnt-out behind him. Of course he didn't even play piano for a number of years since his wife died and of course we know what that did to him. At one point he was making jewellery and selling it in markets to survive. How the other half live, poor soul.  

@schubert         Again in complete agreement with you Len, LvB string quartets no other comes near t hem I think especially the late ones. I love the last three esp. Op.127 and who cannot but admire the Grosse Fugue which if played to someone who doesn't know it would probably think Stravinsky had wrote it. Talk about tossing your lance into the future I'm sure it will still be thought as written in the Twentieth century long into the future. 
At the moment I am typing I am listening to a masterful reworking of Tchaikovsky's Seasons played by Trio Zadig on Qobuz. If you have Qobuz I think it  is is a must listen as it brings a new slant to this lovely work. Of course if you want to listen to the original piano version then Mikhail Pletnev who I think is the definite best in this work.
Enjoy your weekend everyone. Jim.

Got a wonderful set of Beethoven Piano Trios complete to recommend from a very talented French group. They are the Trio Sora and they have gorgeous tone, gorgeous playing and gorgeous girls. The pianist is an extremely gifted young woman, her runs are fast and faultless. That said both violinist and cellist are wonderful players also. They are just as good in the minor works as the major ones. A hearty recommendation and it is on Qobuz at the moment .

Barenboim is one of the greatest musicians on the planet right now. He will be sorely missed when he goes. If you want to hear him at his best with his conductors clothes on go to Qobuz or Idagio and look up Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto with Liza Batiashvihli on fiddle, fireworks galore. Thanks jim for the Schumann.

At this moment I am listening to Quarteto Casals playing the Beethoven string Quartets Op.18. on Quobuz and what a treat they are .You know you are in the presence of a supreme master even with these quartets . This group are superb , they match each other in virtuosity of ensemble playing and their tone is beautifully matched to each other. 
The recording is by Harmonia Mundi and I don't think I have heard better from any other recording company , I urge you to give it a try.  

To my friends ,Len, RV and Maghister, have a great Christmas Holliday and keep clear of that horrible bug.

"Lang may yer lum reek"  an old Scots saying , Long life to you.

and Len, Don't let the bu**ers get you down.  Jim.  

@twoleftears    Have you tried Olli Mustonen playing
 Alkan's 25 preludes Op.25. Beautiful little character pieces and as an added bonus on the original CD you were also treated to the Shostakovitch 24 Preludes Op.34 as well . I have the digital downloads now archived on my SSD and still listen to it often.

@schubert        Len I have never  heard the Yales doing LvB lates , my go to was always the Alban Bergs whos full set I had and a good job they were on CD as if vinyl I would have been replacing them every month.
Alas Len I never had the time to learn the Gaelic but my granny was from Islay and when she watched us sometimes when we were kids she would nurse us and sing Gaelic lullabies to us. Lovely times with her and I would love to meet her again.
Jim. 

Hi Jeremy , I have been listening to that recording for many many years , Alkan certainly knew how to stress out a pianist. I don't see his name anywhere for live concerts and he doesn't seem to be producing any recordings either .Maybe he is now teaching somewhere and prefers that. It's a pity because he is a lovely player with a great technique as that Alkan and Shostakovich shows.
Jeremy you have a lovely New Year and keep away from that virus.

Jim.

@schubert     Len your lovely Gaelic message to me in Glasgow is
                        "The Big Man's askin fur ye"
As Robert Burns was want to say,
                         Wha's like us naebody the're a' deid.
Good Luck and God bless.

@jcazador          Jeremy I remember in the eighties my friend and I travelled up to Glasgow to catch a concert with Fou-Ts'ong playing Tchaikovsky' 1st Piano concerto. When the  piece stared he launched into the the opening with the wrong chord sequence and continued playing wrong chords until the main piece was established. My pal and I were horrified and wondered why they didn't stop and start the piece again.
At the end of the piece we all gave him a huge ovation and we could see a look of massive relief on his face. he made a little speech after that and said how he loved the Scottish people and would try to do more concerts up here and then he treated us to three beautiful Chopin pieces.

That’s not all people like about Ms B.

@rvpiano     RV I always meant to ask you do you play the Goldbergs by chance ?